horrible back pain need help

[scubascuba3]

Hi if your pain is not kidney related but "just" back pain i can help with specific yoga techniques.. Believe or not.
i have experience. Requires to know more about your "back"ground and your physical activities (that lead to this). Nothing has no reasons.
Pathetically , people have nothing else to cling to than  painkillers. Not  treating the reason of the problem is like spraying paint on a rusty metal.   msg in pv.  I'll be in Thailand from Songkran onward

But yoga, pilates, chiropractor can give false hope too. Would you offer your service and payment based on results?

[earlinclaifornia]

Have they diagnosed the cause? ie disk issue?

[NCC1701A]

23 minutes ago, observer90210 said:

to the OP - Have you considered to have a MRI done to see if it's not plainly a hernia ?

i was letting the doctor decide. i was expecting a MRI or something today.  i went to Bangkok Hospital Hua Hin where they are really quick to perform tests and prescribe meds but today the doctor did not seem to think it was necessary. i will wait a few day to see how I feel.

 

here is the back story on my back.

 

i broke my right shoulder blade 20 years ago.

in the last five years i have been riding a scooter and motorcycle in Thailand almost every day.

i open my gate with my right arm while still on my scooter almost everyday. some stress here doing it from the scooter. 

sitting in front of computer too much and a soft mattress.

i have in general, ok 24/7 been sort of a madman physically. not drinking, just really burning the candle at both ends. 

my back has been aching, a minor dull pain right where it was broken years ago, for a few weeks, and i had a few massages to maybe "get the knots out", no problem.

the day before going to the hospital after getting frisky with my girlfriend i asked her to rub my back where it was hurting. no problem with that, but next day crazy bad pain.

 

so here i am flying on my new best friend Voltfast Powder.  pain is less than yesterday for sure and my arm is in a sling which helps.

 

 

 

Edited March 25, 2019 by NCC1701A

[atyclb]

seeing references to kidney stones suggested lower back but i now see upper / c spine symptoms. good idea to rule out disc herniation. as we age can lose vertebral disc mass/height and can cause snug foramina where nerve roots exit and can compress same.

 

be careful cause a bkk hospital ortho specialist tried to sell me prosthetic disc surgery but a us/canada neurosurgeon friend looked at mri and case and said absolutely not.

 

[NCC1701A]

2 minutes ago, atyclb said:

be careful cause a bkk hospital ortho specialist tried to sell me prosthetic disc surgery but a us/canada neurosurgeon friend looked at mri and case and said absolutely not.

and this is why i am going slow with tests. pain is far less now. i will see what happens over next few days. 

 

[farcanell]

Firstly, for those critical of other posters offering unqualified advice... NCC knows exactly who he’s asking... so all those attacks are counter productive.

 

so... drugs... what fun.

 

tramadol seems to be Thailand’s go to at the moment, but it’s very addictive, so it needs adult supervision

 

codeine is generally effective, especially with ibuprofen, and less addictive.

 

norgesics contain a muscle relaxant plus paracetamol, which is better than straight up paracetamol

 

obviously pain meds relieve symptoms, but relief is what’s asked for and probably needed in the first instance.... but in masking pain, it’s important to immobilize oneself to prevent aggravation of the underlying cause (vs massage and manipulation)

 

as a perpetual sufferer of work related back, neck and shoulder pain, including twice dislocated (rh) shoulder ( I herein note colinneils advice), torn ligaments, muscles and tendons, and upper spinal problems, including neck, in times of acute pain, I love a good cocktail over the short period, involving muscle relaxants, NSAIDS, tramadol and codeine (all mentioned above)

 

note... tramadols daily Max is 600mg... overdoses can cause body spasms, usually starting in the legs. ????

 

Hope you feel better sooner than later, and I look forward to hearing what a real doctor prescribes.... rest up and enjoy the short term side effects

[NCC1701A]

thank you everybody. i know i was not too specific when i said "back pain" which could be anything really. 

 

i got some good answers, all well meaning. 

 

i think my girlfriend likes me better on pain killers.

[atyclb]

4 minutes ago, farcanell said:

Firstly, for those critical of other posters offering unqualified advice... NCC knows exactly who he’s asking... so all those attacks are counter productive.

 

so... drugs... what fun.

 

tramadol seems to be Thailand’s go to at the moment, but it’s very addictive, so it needs adult supervision

 

codeine is generally effective, especially with ibuprofen, and less addictive.

 

norgesics contain a muscle relaxant plus paracetamol, which is better than straight up paracetamol

 

obviously pain meds relieve symptoms, but relief is what’s asked for and probably needed in the first instance.... but in masking pain, it’s important to immobilize oneself to prevent aggravation of the underlying cause (vs massage and manipulation)

 

as a perpetual sufferer of work related back, neck and shoulder pain, including twice dislocated (rh) shoulder ( I herein note colinneils advice), torn ligaments, muscles and tendons, and upper spinal problems, including neck, in times of acute pain, I love a good cocktail over the short period, involving muscle relaxants, NSAIDS, tramadol and codeine (all mentioned above)

 

note... tramadols daily Max is 600mg... overdoses can cause body spasms, usually starting in the legs. ????

 

Hope you feel better sooner than later, and I look forward to hearing what a real doctor prescribes.... rest up and enjoy the short term side effects

 

"unqualified advice" hell no, could be lots of qualified opoid addicts here. can move topic to farang pub.

[rumak]

17 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

the day before going to the hospital after getting frisky with my girlfriend i asked her to rub my back where it was hurting. no problem with that, but next day crazy bad pain.

 

so here i am flying on my new best friend Voltfast Powder.  pain is less than yesterday for sure and my arm is in a sling which helps.

So,  glad to hear the doctor took my recommendation and gave you  Diclofenac .  Guess he is a TV member.

Now,,,, is the crazy bad pain SPASM pain ?   Like you feel like falling to your knees when you made a wrong motion ?   If so, have doctor read my suggestion for that  ( but they always say "no, that is for sleeping" or something like that)  Diazepam.   Very well known DR gave it to me after others never mentioned it.  NOTE:

it is for spasms, and need not be used often, just when needed.

Glad you're doing better.  BTW:  let us know what dr says is causing the pain.  Sounds like he will say it is probably muscular  ( of course could be nerve or disc related or many other things).   Hopefully musclular and you will just have to refrain from hanging from the shower for a while when being "frisky"

Edited March 25, 2019 by rumak

[cardinalblue]

Back pain can be a million things....proper diagnosis b/f any medication...

 

you are not Charles Lindberg......don’t fly blind....

[Oztruckie]

If it's anything like muscle spasms or pinched nerve type of pain, your best medicine is Voltaren 100mg, never take without food or small bottle of milk,available pretty well all pharmacies. 

[ShortTimed]

i was letting the doctor decide. i was expecting a MRI or something today.  i went to Bangkok Hospital Hua Hin where they are really quick to perform tests and prescribe meds but today the doctor did not seem to think it was necessary. i will wait a few day to see how I feel.   here is the back story on my back.  

i broke my right shoulder blade 20 years ago.

in the last five years i have been riding a scooter and motorcycle in Thailand almost every day.

i open my gate with my right arm while still on my scooter almost everyday. some stress here doing it from the scooter. 

i have in general, ok 24/7 :clap2:been sort of a madman physically. not drinking, just really burning the candle at both ends. 

my back has been aching, a minor dull pain right where it was broken years ago, for a few weeks, and i had a few massages to maybe "get the knots out", no problem.

the day before going to the hospital after getting frisky with my girlfriend i asked her to rub my back where it was hurting. no problem with that, but next day crazy bad pain.

 

so here i am flying on my new best friend Voltfast Powder.  pain is less than yesterday for sure and my arm is in a sling which helps.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Even an x-ray can help identify some disc issue and also give insight to your shoulder since bone spurs would show up.  

I am not attempting to diagnose at all, but just saying an x-ray is dirt cheap here and can atleast give you a glimpse. Not saying its nearly as good as an MRI.

 

One thing I found in my case was that there came a point where I had to take control of the direction of my treatment. I am not saying the physicians or staff were sub-par, but only that by researching the heck out of my symptoms and overlapping that with my knowledge as an EMT, I was able to guide the treatment and direction that the medical staff pursued...and also the decision to not get surgery (which is not the best path for all disc herniations) and also the best PT.

 

If your shoulder issue is just a soft tissue injury (but it sounds like more complicated, sorry) then you should be good in no time but if it is more serious or an issue with your upper thoracic vertebrate placing pressure on a disc and nerves then you may have a decent amount of time on the injured/reserve list to learn up.

 

Not every hospital has a Cheryl on staff.

 

 

 

[NCC1701A]

2 minutes ago, rumak said:

Now,,,, is the crazy bad pain SPASM pain ?   Like you feel like falling to your knees when you made a wrong motion ?

it comes in waves. dull ache to bigger pain. not so much shooting pain. not dropping to your knees pain like kidney stone but still really hurts. 

 

[farcanell]

15 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i open my gate with my right arm while still on my scooter almost everyday. 

Shut that down immediately... install an electric motor on the gate, if possible

 

in any decent workplace, that type of motion would be strictly verboten, regardless of age or pre existing problems. “Overextension” is a huge issue / cause of back related pain (although usually in the lower back)

[ShortTimed]

Shut that down immediately... install an electric motor on the gate, if possible
 
in any decent workplace, that type of motion would be strictly verboten, regardless of age or pre existing problems. “Overextension” is a huge issue / cause of back related pain (although usually in the lower back)

Or atleast step off the motorbike and use proper body mechanics with no twisting.

[rumak]

2 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

it comes in waves. dull ache to bigger pain. not so much shooting pain. not dropping to your knees pain like kidney stone but still really hurts. 

 

still sounds (and hopefully) is muscular.   I had that dull pain for months till I tried diclofenac . The stronger pain is probably due to the muscle being STRAINED , and therefore certain times or motions will cause a stronger pain.  Rest is the usual answer... but not complete rest.  Light walking and moving around is best.

Just lying in bed does not get blood flowing.    Can take weeks or months for the body to heal at our age.

Try to ease up on meds and see how things go after a bit.   And don't push your back hard when you start to feel better.  Also drs always try to get you doing stretches ( thats what they are taught).  For some it works, for others it makes things worse.   

[Sheryl]

he can make a radiography or medical assessment. If it is only muscular or articular i can help.  If he doesn't want help and only rely on drugs, up to him. 

It unlikelt to be a muscular or joint issue with the radiculopathy he describes.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[Sheryl]

yesterday they gave me:
 
in ER three injections over three hours of something very strong. not morphine.
 
Take home:
Perskindol Spray
Paramed 500 mg tablets
Voltfast Powder 50 mg. (this stuff i can feel kick in)
Tramal Retard 100 mg (this stuff i can feel kick in)
Nortriptyline 25 mg (bedtime) fun reading about this. i was not going to take it but they only gave me two tabs so i don't think it will kill me. 
 
today given a physical exam, range of motion, pain, strength, but no CT MRI or X-ray.
doctor seemed to think muscle in my shoulder somehow aggravated.
 
today given:
Voltaren-SR 100 mg
Zolpidem (I am not going to take this)
 
so i will wait 3 more days with arm in sling and see if improved. 
 
 
 

Which doctor did you see?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NCC1701A]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

Which doctor did you see?

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Ponpan Jindawattanawong.

[rumak]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

 

actually, no joking this is closer to the truth than I care to admit.

i think you just did   ????

[rumak]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

It would hardly be a muscular or joint issue with the radiculopathy he describes.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

i think 2 seperate issues.  My responses are based on my years of dealing with drs and back issues.  

the shoulder problem i only have one experience (frozen shoulder).   I offer no suggestions about the shoulder issue.   but i maintain there is a good chance the lower back is likely a muscular issue.

[Ctkong]

5 hours ago, Dario said:

My late mother suffered from severe back pain many, many years until she passed away here in Thailand. She told me it was an isciatic nerv which caused the pain. What helped her the most whenever the pain returned was using a fluid called Perskindol which we rubbed onto her back. She brought a 500 ml bottle with her when she moved to Thailand. And it always helped her. Perskindol is available in Thailand. I buy it on Lazada for my daughter for when she plays tennis. After strong ground strokes or serves muscle ache is sure to occur and then Perskindol is your friend. Even her tennis coach and his son use it. They have it always on court. Much safer than all the pain killers mentioned in this thread. It might help the OP for recurring pain.

Pinched sciatic nerve can be resolved by using trigger point therapy done by an experience chiropractor. I have a close friend who uses this therapy with very good result. 

[NCC1701A]

5 hours ago, Dario said:

a fluid called Perskindol

yes they gave me the spray on version. i am just trying to figure out how much i should inhale.

 

seriously this stuff is great for dulling the pain also.

[Alainpm]

1 hour ago, ShortTimed said:

 Possibly a good practice to actually know what the underlying medical issue is before saying you know what is best to resolve it.

 

Yoga did help me with my herniated disc. Yoga can help but a safe course of action to start as part of the PT phase after acute symptoms are identified and treated, right?

 

You may have great insight but you don’t want to risk sounding like a charlatan.

 

 haha I understand your position. Charlatans are legion  . We see more of them than honest, competent, responsible and sincere people (in medicine too). And you don't know who I am. Medicine and doctors can be really useful and life saving in some cases.  But can't solve everything. So I don't preach about Yoga, i just explain its benefits. I respect those who don't believe in what I say and accept it, but if some others can hear my message, well i'll be happy of it, but I won't be richer or poorer whether i help or not. 

To go in details, with what is said, (a pain in the back irradiating to the arm), it  looks like a usual chain of reactions due to local contractures, as the body is a complex unity in which everything is linked. Muscle chains in the back are multiple and really intricated. It is easy for a contracture there to irradiate to the arm (and/or the neck). That happened  several times to me after doing unusual moves ( like  using the wood axe with one hand, which created a vicious contraction under the right scapula that took long time to subside (even after yoga). And another time;.. after a motorbike accident.. In Thailand, I had adhesive capsulitis to the other arm (left shoulder)  that took 6 months of physiotherapist (and specific yoga exercices) then 1 year of daily yoga to disappear (almost) completely. Without yoga, there still would be sequels and limited movement to my shoulder.     Anyway if if I had not done these stupid moves it would not have happened. So prevention is better than yoga (and medicine)  in a sense.   Every case is different. things can improve immediately ( followed by weeks of   autonomous exercices to give the muscles chains the new memory) or need longer time. By the way i won't be available long time in Thailand to give help as I'm there for visiting friends and travelling. I have no business interest in talking these subjects, but I'm doing it because  I have the experience and knowledge, we all on this forum are humans, and it's a place to exchange and propose solution if possible. If they work that's fine, if they don't work, well i'll have tried it and now doubt is lifted...  and I see so many people suffering, whose cases could be solved quite rapidely..  although i concede that nothing is a panacea, but a key point is the patient taking charge of himself , as the' yoga i teach is not a therapy (i'm not doctor), but rather an education. Most exercices are done by the student himself, and for those he can't do alone (cannot move the arm without feeling irradiating pain) , I can help with soft manipulations moves. Does this answer satisfy  you ? ????

[connda]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Hospitals will give outpatient morphine to people with terminal cancer (especially if the patient is under the care of a palliative specialust)

Where does one find a palliative specialist in Thailand?  My guess is they are a rare species indeed. 

[erymax]

Hi NCC, if i may to give you an advise, (I use to be a Neurosurgeon), first you really need a proper examination for your back (incl. neurological exam) to exclude anything else such as renal colic or ing. hernia Ultrasound would be very useful. In case of discs you really need MRI scan to see if you have herniation/bulging with nerve compression especially to exclude cauda compression or sequesters of disc, spinal canal stenosis. etc. Don't forget your hips.  

Edited March 25, 2019 by erymax

[ThaiFelix]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

i'm sort of digging this Voltfast Powder rush. sort of like High School in California.

 

 

Well you must be feeling somewhat better lol!

[Saltire]

I used to suffer back pain from about 2010 and over the years got gradually worse but never so bad that I needed medication. I tried a chiropractor and osteopath in the UK but was just a waste of a lot of money.

 

I moved to Cambodia in 2012 where it really got bad, to the extent I went to the RAM hospital in Chiang Mai where they recommend an MRI. The MRI was pretty inconclusive with nothing obvious to the consultant on the MRI scan or an Xray and so the only diagnosis was painkillers. I don't recall what, but just normal over the counter stuff.

 

6 Months later I could barely walk more than 50 metres with sciatica down the left leg and lower back so this time, back to Thailand and Bumrungrad in Bangkok. It took me 40 minutes to walk from my hotel in Nana to the hospital which should have been a 10 minute stroll. Recommended another MRI and as before, the consultant says there was nothing obvious. This however did not stop him recommending a spinal fusion op to remove a disk and bolt the 2 vertebrae together, at a cost of roughly $25k +++. I considered this but after a bit of research decided against it.

 

Administratively and facilities wise both hospitals were excellent but what let them down in both cases was the 'specialists', neither of whom inspired any confidence and did not even feign an interest in my condition.

 

On my return home to Cambodia, now a bit desperate from the debilitating, worsening condition I clutched at straws and went to a Swiss lady trained in acupuncture in Beijing. 7 sessions later and I was almost pain-free, and still am today 7 years on. I walk 4 to 5 km every day and feel better than ever. If I overdo the walking i can get a dull lower back pain but it's nothing. I should add I am the biggest skeptic on alternative medicine, but I am well sold on acupuncture.

 

Just a suggestion, it could be worth a look if you get to the bottom of this, and get over the worst of the pain.

 

Good luck, get well soon.

 

PS Any massage nowadays comes with a 'don't touch my spine' warning before starting..

[Andre0720]

2 hours ago, NCC1701A said:

yesterday they gave me:

 

in ER three injections over three hours of something very strong. not morphine.

 

Take home:

Perskindol Spray

Paramed 500 mg tablets

Voltfast Powder 50 mg. (this stuff i can feel kick in)

Tramal Retard 100 mg (this stuff i can feel kick in)

Nortriptyline 25 mg (bedtime) fun reading about this. i was not going to take it but they only gave me two tabs so i don't think it will kill me. 

 

today given a physical exam, range of motion, pain, strength, but no CT MRI or X-ray.

doctor seemed to think muscle in my shoulder somehow aggravated.

 

today given:

Voltaren-SR 100 mg

Zolpidem (I am not going to take this)

 

so i will wait 3 more days with arm in sling and see if improved. 

 

 

 

I had something very similar. A pinched nerve at the 5th vertebrae. causing numbness and pain going down my left arm.

 

A <Network chiropractor< told me he would fix it at about 90 %, since there was damage to a disk. He told me it would come back during stressful events. He was absolutely right.

There are three types of chiropractic approaches that I know, so be careful which one you go to.

 

Medicine typically just hides the pain, does not solve the problem. I never took any pain killers... When the problem is solved, the pain goes away. How will one know if the problem is gone if the pain is numbed with all sorts of medicine.

 

An ice pack will beat Voltaren any time....

[Alainpm]

7 minutes ago, ThaiFelix said:

Well you must be feeling somewhat better lol!

Humour is a great cure. I'm sure he will recover well ????