Do Good Ex Footballers Make Good Managers?

[JacknDanny]

Just been thinking this over.

The most successful managers of recent time in England.....Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez, Houulier,.All were either Non footballers or played a long time ago or played at a low level

Even the foreign managers like Capello and Lippi, same thing.

Then you look at managers who have 'succeeded with small clubs on small budgets....Alladyce, Redknapp, Kinnear, same thing.

Then you look at the high profile in most cases International footballers of recent times......Hoddle, Platt, Keegan,Pearce, Bruce, Robson, Pardew, Roeder,Wise, Souness, all have failed either hugely or relatively, and there are many more that I cant think of right now!!!

Why is it that a good ex footballer with all the right attribute on the field cannot seem to either get the respect of the players or have enough man management skills about him to generate a response.

My first thoughts are that nowadays there is just too much money being payed to these players.

What does everybody else think?

[Florin]

Most footballers aren't particularly bright...I doubt they have enough managerial skills and pure brainpower to succeed as managers. I think the acting business is similar, few actors are skilled enough to become producers/directors, etc.

One notable exception, though, is Franz Beckenbauer...this man has always reached the very very top, be it as a player, manager, club president or World Cup organizer. Kudos to him! I'd also say that Johan Cruyff has been very successful both as manager & player...but you are right, the majority big-name players don't do to well as managers.

[miminem]

Michel Platini was a good footballer, a not so good coach but he will be the next UEFA manager.

I do ot know if he will be good though but I believe he will try some interesting things for european cups.

[mrbojangles]

To me, it's the same ethos as in any business. If you have the neccessary skills to do the job you'll be fine. I.E. many a time in a factory, people get promoted for doing a good job until eventually, they get fired for getting promoted into a job they aren't qualified to do.

IMO, a good manager needs several skills including, being a good tactician, man manager and a keen eye for new talent, to name a few. Just because someone has played top class football doesn't meen he has these skills. I do however, think they can contribute in coaching, which many do go on to do.

[Mossfinn]

people get promoted for doing a good job until eventually, they get fired for getting promoted into a job they aren't qualified to do.

Also known as being promoted to a level of incompetence.

I also think it is down to the money issue and quite likely respect, the respect of the manager and manager respecting the players, if either is missing there will be a complete break-down in confidence.

Can you see anybody disrespecting Shankly, Paisley, Stein, Nicholson or Busby in their time, nowadays you have popsicles in the hot seat, who have never even cleaned their own boots let alone the senior pro's.

Forget about football I say.....

Good Luck

Moss

[The Dan Sai Kid]

I agree with the respect thing. Even benchwarmers are being paid more than the coaches.

I also think that managers take on big jobs before they are ready. Look at Fergie: St Mirren, Aberdeen, and then he went to Man U - who were in the doldrums and expectations weren't that high. Managers need to get experience coming up through the managerial ranks.

I think that Roy Keane made a very good choice of club - all he had to do at Sunderland was not get relegated and that lack of pressure has led them to almost the top of the table. If Sunderland do go up it will be interesting to see how they get on next season.

[ThaiPauly]

May I be so bold as to suggest....Steve Coppell ?

Even though its taken him 20 years.

But there are also several others who were considered quite good.

Dalgliesh

Keegan

Terry Francis

Trevor Francis

Terry Neale

Terry Venables

These players have all played at International level in their time and were:

considered sucessful...but not many can be sucessful forever.

A noticeable failure would have been Bryan Robson...he was tipped as Fergie's successor ...but blew it.

Of course Alan Shearer will be in Football Management soon ..it will be interesting to see how he gets on. Even the great Sir Bobby Charlton could not cut it in Management...he had a go at Preston I believe ..but did not last long. The most sucessful manager to play in the World Cup Final of 66 was Alan Ball believe it or not.

[jasreeve17]

It's a big and widespread question, so I'll limit it to the finest team in the World; Ipwich Town.

Alf Ramsey - International captain and great manager; league title and World up.

Bobby Robson - International player and great manager; Uefa cup, FA cup and 3 World cups (nearly).

others.....

George Burley - International player and a decent manager (Premier league finished 4th).

Jim Magilton - Average second level International, less than average manager, thus far.

The analysis here is that we've seen International players turn into trophy winning club managers, but not recently.

This might indicate that the game is changing, and the actual footballing skills are becoming less relevant at management level. Would seem logical, if more support was added.

[JacknDanny]

May I be so bold as to suggest....Steve Coppell ?

Even though its taken him 20 years.

But there are also several others who were considered quite good.

Dalgliesh

Keegan

Terry Francis

Trevor Francis

Terry Neale

Terry Venables

These players have all played at International level in their time and were:

considered sucessful...but not many can be sucessful forever.

A noticeable failure would have been Bryan Robson...he was tipped as Fergie's successor ...but blew it.

Of course Alan Shearer will be in Football Management soon ..it will be interesting to see how he gets on. Even the great Sir Bobby Charlton could not cut it in Management...he had a go at Preston I believe ..but did not last long. The most sucessful manager to play in the World Cup Final of 66 was Alan Ball believe it or not.

Venables is old school, which was the original point , that the successful managers were either non players or played a while ago. Bobby Robson would also fall into that category.

Dalgleish, I think is the exception to the rule.

Never heard of Terry Neale or Terry Francis

I would disagree with Trevor Francis, I would say he was most definately UN successful as a manager.

Keegan likewise, although popular what did he win? I remember him bottling it when at Newcastle, bottling it as England manager.

Coppell could be the exception, he has had a great couple of seasons, but as you say has been spectacularly unsuccessful prior to this.

Alan Ball and successful manager in the same breath!!!!!!!!!!! S#IT I remember him as Citys manager, what a t#at.!!!!

I just think that there is so much money in football now, that pride does not come into it. As players Ball, Pearce, Robson to name 3 battled and tried for every ball. It must be so frustrating to manage 'players' who simply do not have the hunger.

[JacknDanny]

It's a big and widespread question, so I'll limit it to the finest team in the World; Ipwich Town.

Alf Ramsey - International captain and great manager; league title and World up.

Bobby Robson - International player and great manager; Uefa cup, FA cup and 3 World cups (nearly).

others.....

George Burley - International player and a decent manager (Premier league finished 4th).

Jim Magilton - Average second level International, less than average manager, thus far.

The analysis here is that we've seen International players turn into trophy winning club managers, but not recently.

This might indicate that the game is changing, and the actual footballing skills are becoming less relevant at management level. Would seem logical, if more support was added.

Interesting last paragraph.

The fact that squads are more multi racial and the young kids are earning fortunes, then a man manager would seem to be more neccassary than a good footballing coach.

Nowadays it seems easier to 'buy' as opposed to nurture talent, which I suppose lends more significance to the managing people as opposed to teaching football skills

[ThaiPauly]

May I be so bold as to suggest....Steve Coppell ?

Even though its taken him 20 years.

But there are also several others who were considered quite good.

Dalgliesh

Keegan

Terry Francis

Trevor Francis

Terry Neale

Terry Venables

These players have all played at International level in their time and were:

considered sucessful...but not many can be sucessful forever.

A noticeable failure would have been Bryan Robson...he was tipped as Fergie's successor ...but blew it.

Of course Alan Shearer will be in Football Management soon ..it will be interesting to see how he gets on. Even the great Sir Bobby Charlton could not cut it in Management...he had a go at Preston I believe ..but did not last long. The most sucessful manager to play in the World Cup Final of 66 was Alan Ball believe it or not.

Venables is old school, which was the original point , that the successful managers were either non players or played a while ago. Bobby Robson would also fall into that category.

Dalgleish, I think is the exception to the rule.

Never heard of Terry Neale or Terry Francis

I would disagree with Trevor Francis, I would say he was most definately UN successful as a manager.

Keegan likewise, although popular what did he win? I remember him bottling it when at Newcastle, bottling it as England manager.

Coppell could be the exception, he has had a great couple of seasons, but as you say has been spectacularly unsuccessful prior to this.

Alan Ball and successful manager in the same breath!!!!!!!!!!! S#IT I remember him as Citys manager, what a t#at.!!!!

I just think that there is so much money in football now, that pride does not come into it. As players Ball, Pearce, Robson to name 3 battled and tried for every ball. It must be so frustrating to manage 'players' who simply do not have the hunger.

Sorry ..should have been Gerry Francis..ex Spurs manager..to name but one club he managed.

Terry Neale was Tottenhams manager in the 70's.

I suppose its really how you judge "successful" Is it by constanstly winning things or being in Management a long time?

Yes, Alan Ball was not a particularly good manager ...and I know what City fans thought of him...mildly more likeable by you than Brian Horton probably, but he certainly was a Manager for many years.

I think its a bit early to judge Alan Pardew. He has not had a good year ...but prior to this one he had done very well indeed. He built the bedrock that Reading are founded on by bringing in the likes of Kitson, Shorey, Inagmarson, Sidwell, Harper, & Hannamann. Thats over half of our regular team...I think he will turn out OK ..although maybee to late this year.

[johnh101]

Another interesting fact is how many players who played under Ferguson at either Aberdeen or Man U have gone on to be successful Managers. Strachan, McLeish, Mark Hughes, Mark McGhee, Roy Keane, to name but a few.

[bendix]

My team, Leeds, went through a period in the 80s of hiring the great players from Revie's era as managers and they were all relative failures. All the players were full internationals, of course.

Allan Clarke got us relegated.

Billy Bremner did ok. I think he managed Doncaster for a while, then came to Leeds and took us to the FA Cup semis as a second division team.

Eddie Gray did nothing much in either of his stints as manager, but was significantly more successful as a first team coach.

Only one of the great Leeds team did anything as a manager, and that was Jackie Charlton.

Oh, for some of their attitutude at Elland Road today . . . .

[redrus]

Steve Bruce has only just started out in managerial terms, as has Mark Hughes.

I think a little time may be needed, before we call them failures.

Steve Coppell, will be massive, sorry TP mate, not at Reading....! I think England calls, not for 5 to 10 years though eh, let him earn more spurs....

redrus

[ThaiPauly]

Steve Coppell, will be massive, sorry TP mate, not at Reading....! I think England calls, not for 5 to 10 years though eh, let him earn more spurs....

redrus

NO WAY is he going to Spurs Red

I don't see him as a future England manager either. Not because he could not do it...beacuse he would not want the poison chalice that is the England job.

Fortunatley I dont think he will ever be a "Big Club" Manager (Sorry about that comment he managed City at one point I think...no disrespect intended to City fans). I just don't think he would want all the attention that goes with a "High Profile "job. He's "been there done that" and got countlless T Shirts

Steve will only work on one year contracts, which is interesting...but worrying at the same time..I would obviously like to see him commit long term..but I think he does it this way because he is such a Gentleman that he does not want a big payout if he was no good...Thats just his style.

He was recently voted the most unassuming manager in the Premiership..with Martin Jol looking the most fearsome

Sorry if this is a bit Off Topic

[mrbojangles]

I don't see him as a future England manager either. Not because he could not do it...beacuse he would not want the poison chalice that is the England job.

Each to their own. But one reason is, the press would kill him. Apparently likes to go to certain places in Pattaya and if the press got hold of that, whilst he was an England manager.....well

Look what they did to Sven when he was allegedley bonking Ulrika

[redrus]

Sorry mate we disagree, I think he's an intelligent man but, importantly, a cautious one also.

I did say in 5 to 10 years time, I also think if United came calling 'in that time' he'd throw out the one year thing too.

redrus

[bomber]

Just been thinking this over.

The most successful managers of recent time in England.....Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez, Houulier,.All were either Non footballers or played a long time ago or played at a low level

Even the foreign managers like Capello and Lippi, same thing.

Then you look at managers who have 'succeeded with small clubs on small budgets....Alladyce, Redknapp, Kinnear, same thing.

Then you look at the high profile in most cases International footballers of recent times......Hoddle, Platt, Keegan,Pearce, Bruce, Robson, Pardew, Roeder,Wise, Souness, all have failed either hugely or relatively, and there are many more that I cant think of right now!!!

Why is it that a good ex footballer with all the right attribute on the field cannot seem to either get the respect of the players or have enough man management skills about him to generate a response.

My first thoughts are that nowadays there is just too much money being payed to these players.

What does everybody else think?

roy keane will be a good one.you watch

[ThaiPauly]

I don't see him as a future England manager either. Not because he could not do it...beacuse he would not want the poison chalice that is the England job.

Each to their own. But one reason is, the press would kill him. Apparently likes to go to certain places in Pattaya and if the press got hold of that, whilst he was an England manager.....well

Look what they did to Sven when he was allegedley bonking Ulrika

Mr.B...he goes to Pattaya for the GOLF

I know this to be true as he uses my Mate's Golf Tour Company.

Redrus.....football's a funny old game..I suppose you never know...if he can keep Reading in the Premiership for the next ten years I would be a very happy man and wish him every sucess at a big club...we may even be aa big club by then..who knows????

[leemond]

Has anybody mentioned or has the efforts of a Mr Carlton Palmer been overlooked?

[ThaiPauly]

Has anybody mentioned or has the efforts of a Mr Carlton Palmer been overlooked?

I had heard that Mike Bassett was a better manager than him

[redrus]

Has anybody mentioned or has the efforts of a Mr Carlton Palmer been overlooked?

Overlooked, two words, Stockport County....!

redrus

[stats]

Diego Armando Maradona a legend and superb player but not a great coach or manager

[mrbojangles]

I don't see him as a future England manager either. Not because he could not do it...beacuse he would not want the poison chalice that is the England job.

Each to their own. But one reason is, the press would kill him. Apparently likes to go to certain places in Pattaya and if the press got hold of that, whilst he was an England manager.....well

Look what they did to Sven when he was allegedley bonking Ulrika

Mr.B...he goes to Pattaya for the GOLF

I know this to be true as he uses my Mate's Golf Tour Company.

So that's his day time activities sorted then

[wimster]

Can we look over the (UK) border?

Guus Hiddink, Frank Rijkaard, Ronald Koeman...yeah....yesterday

Just been thinking this over.

The most successful managers of recent time in England.....Ferguson, Mourinho, Wenger, Benitez, Houulier,.All were either Non footballers or played a long time ago or played at a low level

Even the foreign managers like Capello and Lippi, same thing.

Then you look at managers who have 'succeeded with small clubs on small budgets....Alladyce, Redknapp, Kinnear, same thing.

Then you look at the high profile in most cases International footballers of recent times......Hoddle, Platt, Keegan,Pearce, Bruce, Robson, Pardew, Roeder,Wise, Souness, all have failed either hugely or relatively, and there are many more that I cant think of right now!!!

Why is it that a good ex footballer with all the right attribute on the field cannot seem to either get the respect of the players or have enough man management skills about him to generate a response.

My first thoughts are that nowadays there is just too much money being payed to these players.

What does everybody else think?

[Jimjim]

Yes, Rijkaard is the first coach that sprang to mind when seeing the title of this thread.

[JacknDanny]

I don't see him as a future England manager either. Not because he could not do it...beacuse he would not want the poison chalice that is the England job.

Each to their own. But one reason is, the press would kill him. Apparently likes to go to certain places in Pattaya and if the press got hold of that, whilst he was an England manager.....well

Look what they did to Sven when he was allegedley bonking Ulrika

"Allegedly" that is why he only lasted 30 days at City

[alexth]

Most footballers aren't particularly bright...I doubt they have enough managerial skills and pure brainpower to succeed as managers. I think the acting business is similar, few actors are skilled enough to become producers/directors, etc.

One notable exception, though, is Franz Beckenbauer...this man has always reached the very very top, be it as a player, manager, club president or World Cup organizer. Kudos to him! I'd also say that Johan Cruyff has been very successful both as manager & player...but you are right, the majority big-name players don't do to well as managers.

Agree, let's take a look at Gheorghe Hagi, great player, bad coach...

[Jockstar]

Martin O'Neill . Good player and great manager.