farangs as housemasters

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, IraqRon said:

Thanks to you baansgr, Tanoshi, and others who stayed on point. I have a yellow book and am listed in the blue house book as well. What got me thinking about this was my trip to imm. to report my return after out of Thai. trip and told by the i.o. to get a copy of blue book with  my name in it and ex wife's id, all signed by her.  Never in eight yrs. of retire. visas did a tm30, just used yellow book for extensions.  The i.o. said could not use it for tm 30.  Did get a receipt of notification after getting docs. she required.  This caused me to consider the power a housemaster could have over us, and how outdated the housebook concept is. Of course that is a whole different subject. Thanks again for all the replies.

The IO is a fault.

According to the Immigration Act, section 4;

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever , in accordance with the law on people act.

 

The TM30 header also confirms this:

NOTIFICATION FORM FROM HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR POSSESSOR WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED.

 

There should be no need to request ID or involve your ex-wife.

What would the IO do if your ex was deceased - refuse the TM30 notification!

Edited April 15, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Lacessit]

18 hours ago, elviajero said:

No they can’t if you’re protected by a lease. They can only remove you once the lease ends.

You've never heard of leases being broken by either party?

[elviajero]

56 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You've never heard of leases being broken by either party?

Of course. I meant ‘can’t legally’ if protected by a lease.

[Dogbarker]

20 hours ago, Lacessit said:

OP has commenced with an incorrect or misleading premise. A farang can own a house here. The farang cannot own the land it sits on.

.....as many of us do!!!!

 

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

You've never heard of leases being broken by either party?

if the lease is done properly the land owner cannot set foot on the land for 30 years and has no say in anything you do unless called out in the lease, like block a stream or use deadly chemicals what need clean up.     

 

the lease must be registered with the land office.

[Vacuum]

19 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Only the house is owned by the foreigner.

 

Pretty useless..when the land isn't

Depends how old you are.

Edited April 15, 2019 by Vacuum

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, elviajero said:

Of course. I meant ‘can’t legally’ if protected by a lease.

True ownership is in perpetuity. The land  under Thai law basically reverts to the lessor after a lease period. I imagine what happens to the house is the subject of negotiation, with the lessor holding the whip hand. The property can't be passed on to heirs of the lessee.

The protection is only temporary.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

True ownership is in perpetuity. The land  under Thai law basically reverts to the lessor after a lease period. I imagine what happens to the house is the subject of negotiation, with the lessor holding the whip hand. The property can't be passed on to heirs of the lessee.

The protection is only temporary.

As the owner of a leasehold house I know the law thanks.

 

I got involved with the conversation because someone claimed that you do not own the property, which is wrong regardless of the leases duration.

 

Leasehold ownership is not for the majority, but in some cases it fits. In my case the land and house will be transferred to my children well before the lease is up.

[khunPer]

On 4/14/2019 at 10:45 AM, IraqRon said:

This is not referring to condos, houses only.  What would be the procedure to do so? 

The Blue House Book follows the house, but cannot include a foreigner, Thais only.

 

However, a foreigner can be House Master, and thereby approve which Thai names can be added to the Blue House Book. That is for example the case for me as house owner, only I can give that permission.

 

I also have a Yellow House Book for foreigners. If that is a must, or not, to be House Master i don't know, as I applied for the Yellow House Book about same time, shortly after, I got the Blue House Book; but when the Blue House Book was issued, my Thai girlfriend and our daughter to be named was assigned the Blue House Book, but I was present at that time, so I might have officially accepted it. Later my girlfriend was going to add a cousin's two smaller children to the Blue House Book – living in same village on "our" island – as they needed to be registered in a house book, officially living my house, to attend a government school, but that was not possible without my permission, as I was House Master.

 

Getting a Yellow House Book varies from province to province, some forum posters said it was very easy, while others – like me – found it quite difficult. In my case it was almost same procedure as if I would have applied for permanent residency, apart from no language test, and a translator, my lovely girlfriend, could be used during the Thai language interview.

????

[khunPer]

21 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

So..once again..can you OWN the land your house is built on in Thailand?

Actually yes, if you have an investor visa...

Quote

Thai real estate law allows foreigners to buy and own a limited amount of land based on an investment of 40 million baht for five consecutive years, provided that the land is used for residential purposes

Source for quote: "Buying Land and Property in Thailand"

[jackdd]

2 hours ago, khunPer said:

The Blue House Book follows the house, but cannot include a foreigner, Thais only.

Foreigners with permanent residency are also listed in the blue book.

[LukKrueng]

I've seen many threads on TVF about house (but not land) ownership by foreigners and I would like to understand what type of document shows the ownership of the house? As far as I know the only freehold title deed in Thailand is the chanot (also known as N.S.4) which is issued by the Land Department and that the chanot is issued for the plot of land and not for what's ON that land. 

The blue house registration book is issued by the district office and is only an official address registration for Thai people, not a proof of ownership of the house.

Moreover - on a long lease term, the lessee can sell the reminder of the term to a 3rd party, but once the lease term ends, how can the "owner" of the house sell it or relocate it?

So what documents you refer to as house ownership proof here?

 

 

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, LukKrueng said:

I've seen many threads on TVF about house (but not land) ownership by foreigners and I would like to understand what type of document shows the ownership of the house? As far as I know the only freehold title deed in Thailand is the chanot (also known as N.S.4) which is issued by the Land Department and that the chanot is issued for the plot of land and not for what's ON that land. 

The blue house registration book is issued by the district office and is only an official address registration for Thai people, not a proof of ownership of the house.

Moreover - on a long lease term, the lessee can sell the reminder of the term to a 3rd party, but once the lease term ends, how can the "owner" of the house sell it or relocate it?

So what documents you refer to as house ownership proof here?

In old time the wooden house were build, so they easily could be dismantled – almost folded – and moved to another land plot.

 

Yes, a foreigner can own a house, but not the land under it (apart from rare cases).

 

If the house is already separated from the land ownership, you can have ownership registered at the Land Office, but not for a new build house.

 

When you build a house separated from the land ownership, you need a permission from the land owner, or a superficies agreement.

 

Documentation for your house ownership are all of the following:

• Architect drawings with your name as builder
• Building permission issued in your name
• Contract(s) between you and building constructor(s)
• Invoices and bills issued to your name
• Receipt for payment issued to your name, or bank transfers from your account to constructor
• Any other documents concerning the building construction should carry your name

 

When a lease term end, if the house is on leased land, your contract might include what shall happen to the constructions on the land, for example be removed, or belong to the land owner, or...

 

[LukKrueng]

6 hours ago, khunPer said:

In old time the wooden house were build, so they easily could be dismantled – almost folded – and moved to another land plot.

 

Yes, a foreigner can own a house, but not the land under it (apart from rare cases).

 

If the house is already separated from the land ownership, you can have ownership registered at the Land Office, but not for a new build house.

 

When you build a house separated from the land ownership, you need a permission from the land owner, or a superficies agreement.

 

Documentation for your house ownership are all of the following:

• Architect drawings with your name as builder
• Building permission issued in your name
• Contract(s) between you and building constructor(s)
• Invoices and bills issued to your name
• Receipt for payment issued to your name, or bank transfers from your account to constructor
• Any other documents concerning the building construction should carry your name

 

When a lease term end, if the house is on leased land, your contract might include what shall happen to the constructions on the land, for example be removed, or belong to the land owner, or...

 

All the documents you mentioned are proof that you have paid for the construction of the house, but none is an actual title deed for the house, nothing to show you actually own it. As you mentioned about old style houses, and would probably be the same for knock down houses - those are not considered permanent constructions and you can remove them / relocate them but ownership of those is not registered as fixed house ownership (by title deed) but by bill of sale.

 

 

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

All the documents you mentioned are proof that you have paid for the construction of the house, but none is an actual title deed for the house, nothing to show you actually own it.

Proof of building ownership as already explained is by filing a superficies contract with the Land department. This separates land and building ownerships.

An example of such a contract here;

https://www.samuiforsale.com/other-miscellaneous/superficies-agreement-sample.html

[khunPer]

6 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

All the documents you mentioned are proof that you have paid for the construction of the house, but none is an actual title deed for the house, nothing to show you actually own it.

That you got permission to build the house drawn for you, and that you contracted the construction and paid for it, is the proof of your ownership of a new house. You cannot gobtain a title deed. When resold separated from the land, the Land Office can register the next owner, but not the first.

 

Quote

In case of an existing building registration of a right of superficies will not be approved by the Land Department. Registration could be allowed after transfer of ownership of the structure separate from the land and after transfer fees and taxes have been paid (unless the person granted the right of superficies can proof he is already the owner of the house).

 

You can furthermore use a superficies – if you read the "SamuiForSale"-link I placed in the original post, from which above quote also originates – as proof for a permission to make a construction that you own, on a land that you do not own.

 

However, you do not need a superficies to build a house, but you do need a declaration from the land-owner, giving you the right to build a house on the owner's land, to obtain a bulding construction permission in your name.

[marquis22]

On 4/14/2019 at 7:38 PM, Pravda said:

 

Wow. That's news to me.

 

It looks like Thailand is opening up. Good news for Farang in Isaan.

He typed in 'own" by mistake instead of "paid for"......  ????