Water issues

[jimmyyy]

Now that our electric problems are being fixed my wife has kindly pointed out the next issue with our recently construction village adobe.  When the house was constructed a pair of pot tanks were set outside which i basically ignored and had the water sent directly from the tap into the house.  Okay, well that was dumb on my part.  So now we have water pressure problems. 

 

In the next few days i am going to go buy a pair of tanks either poly or stainless steel (any suggestions) and get a pump.  I read on another thread that water treatment pre or post pump might be a good idea.  We have very hard water.  If there is someone out here in TV land who would be willing to give me a schematic or just a water flow chart I would appreciate it.  Something like this:

 

Influent--Pump--tank-- treatment--house. 

 

I realize this is probably not the correct order, which is why i ask.  Water treatment i want to treat the hard water and perhaps get a 5 micron filter, perhaps UV, i don't really know seems to be alot of stuff out there.  Don't really plan on drinking it, just showers, cooking etc.

[bankruatsteve]

Crossy has a good diagram showing the best way to hook up tank/pump.  It has been posted many times but darned if I can find it with a quick search.  I'm sure somebody can come up with that.

 

A water softener will take care of your hard water.  Easy to source.  Just needs a backflush and salt once in a while.

 

A 1500-2000 liter tank is probably all you need along with a "250 W" pump.  SS is good but the tanks available now are just as good and not so expensive.

 

As for filters, research why you might need one first.  Many (most?) village water treatment these days are very good and even potable - though most people don't drink it.

Edited May 24, 2019 by bankruatsteve

[jimmyyy]

Thanks Steve.  @Crossy could you post that water flow chart here sir if you still have it.

[grollies]

@Crossy has a PDF general arrangement drawing which is pretty good, maybe he could re-post it?

 

Go with poly tanks. Stainlees are expensive.

 

Filters we use the Mazuma cylinder filters one resin, one carbon. To soften the water you need to regenerate with  salt the resin filters regularly.

[Crossy]

You mean this one?

 

 

EDIT We have a polypropylene "crunchy bits" filter on the incoming supply to keep the big bits and mud out when they've been working on the mains and an RO unit for drinking water. We don't do any other treatment as our supply is actually pretty good.

 

[jimmyyy]

@grollies Would you go with one or two tanks?

[jimmyyy]

Just now, Crossy said:

You mean this one?

 

thanks Crossy! 

[grollies]

Ha ha Steve, beat me to it.

 

My Mum had a saying: Great minds think alike.........fools seldom differ. ????

 

[Artisi]

If you don't plan to drink it, don't worry about UV.

What is the source of water supply, does it need a 5 micron filter, and is hard water a problem to you? 

[jimmyyy]

@Crossy would you place any treatment before the tank near the influent or at the end right before it goes to the house?

[grollies]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

You mean this one?

 

 

EDIT We have a polypropylene "crunchy bits" filter on the incoming supply to keep the big bits and mud out when they've been working on the mains and an RO unit for drinking water. We don't do any other treatment as our supply is actually pretty good.

 

The only comment I have on your setup is that I'd move the Non-return valve from the pump suction and put it on the pump discharge side. Otherwise this is exactly the same as my pump system. 

[jimmyyy]

3 minutes ago, Artisi said:

If you don't plan to drink it, don't worry about UV.

What is the source of water supply, does it need a 5 micron filter, and is hard water a problem to you? 

Hard water is a huge problem here.  We get water service from the village.  I am not really sure where it comes from, i am told its treated but the pipes are not potable which is why we can't drink it.  Well I just got out of the shower and i feel like i have 1000's of little black pieces of sand paper on me.  Almost like beads, little balls of some kind.  So grabbed some potable water from our stash and rinsed off with that again.

[grollies]

As crossy says, coarse filter before the tank, fine filters after the pump. Number of tanks, one 1,000 liter tank should be enough unless you have particularly dirty mains water then you might consider a settling tank before your main header tank.

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, grollies said:

The only comment I have on your setup is that I'd move the Non-return valve from the pump suction and put it on the pump discharge side. Otherwise this is exactly the same as my pump system. 

Isn't that the way he shows it?  Anyway, the purpose is to allow mains water to supply the house when pressure is adequate and prevent the pump from backflow.

[jimmyyy]

Think i have enough to go on.  I think i will get the main portions of the system get it installed then do some research on treatment options.  Thanks all i appreciate your input as always.

[grollies]

9 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Isn't that the way he shows it?  Anyway, the purpose is to allow mains water to supply the house when pressure is adequate and prevent the pump from backflow.

No, it isn't. If you look at the drawing it shows an NRV at the pump suction, unless he is just indicating the integrated NRV that is already a built-in part of the pumphead. No need for two NRVs on the suction side.

 

But to protect the pump discharge end from pressure surges it's always good practice to put an NRV after the pump discharge. IMHO.

Edited May 24, 2019 by grollies

[Crossy]

17 minutes ago, grollies said:

The only comment I have on your setup is that I'd move the Non-return valve from the pump suction and put it on the pump discharge side. Otherwise this is exactly the same as my pump system. 

 

With the (often, but not always, integrated) NRV removed from the suction side the pressure tank will discharge back into the reservoir tank meaning the pump will cycle (we had a similar issue when our NRV went leaky, you could actually hear it bubbling back).

 

EDIT The dotted enclosure "Automtic Pump" indicates that all the bits within make up a normal automatic pump.

[jimmyyy]

I will take a photo when i finish it Crossy, let me know if you see any errors..... 55555

[bankruatsteve]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

With the (often, but not always, integrated) NRV removed from the suction side the pressure tank will discharge back into the reservoir tank meaning the pump will cycle (we had a similar issue when our NRV went leaky, you could actually hear it bubbling back).

 

After issues with NRV, I just use 2 normal valves.  They are close together and even my wife knows how to turn one off, the other on to switch supply.  

[jimmyyy]

1 inch ball valves work okay here, coming up with my take off now. 

 

1 ea  1000 liter water tank

1 ea  250 watt water pump

1 ea 2.5 MM electrical wire going to box on 20 amp fuse

4 ea 1 inch ball valves

1 ea float valve (not sure of the type of sizing)

1 inch PVC and corners based upon need

1 gallon pvc cement

 

Does anyone see anything else i might need?

[Crossy]

9 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

After issues with NRV, I just use 2 normal valves.  They are close together and even my wife knows how to turn one off, the other on to switch supply.  

 

That's talking about the NRV in the "bypass" line.

 

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, jimmyyy said:

1 inch ball valves work okay here, coming up with my take off now. 

 

1 ea  1000 liter water tank

1 ea  250 watt water pump

1 ea 2.5 MM electrical wire going to box on 20 amp fuse

4 ea 1 inch ball valves

1 ea float valve (not sure of the type of sizing)

1 inch PVC and corners based upon need

1 gallon pvc cement

 

Does anyone see anything else i might need?

If your water supply can stop for 3 days or more (like ours does at times) you would want a larger tank.

 

1 gallon???  The smallest of can is probably enough.

[grollies]

20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

With the (often, but not always, integrated) NRV removed from the suction side the pressure tank will discharge back into the reservoir tank meaning the pump will cycle (we had a similar issue when our NRV went leaky, you could actually hear it bubbling back).

 

EDIT The dotted enclosure "Automtic Pump" indicates that all the bits within make up a normal automatic pump.

Don't think I've seen one of these house pumps without an integral NRV. It wouldn't make sense to manufacture a pressure pump with expansion tank without one but, hey ho, if you've got one then of course put one on the suction side. My point was, I suppose, that should you have a house pump with integrated NRV then a secondary NRV is not needed, plus, you should always have an NRV after the pump discharge.

Edited May 24, 2019 by grollies

[jimmyyy]

Our water has only ever stopped for a few hours in the 4 years i have been here. Agreed gallon is excessive let me see about a pint.  i place the order through facebook and the stuff shows up the next morning, and i pay upon delivery.

[jimmyyy]

off to ATM less there delivery lad is feeling motivated and just shows up in a couple of hours. 

[Crossy]

3 minutes ago, grollies said:

Don't think I've seen one of these house pumps without an integral NRV.

 

Our Grundfoss has an external NRV, the plastic one that came with it failed fairly rapidly and was replaced (now twice) with a brass one.

 

The pressure tank and NRV are inside the box marked "Automatic Pump" indicating that they are all part of that unit. 

[grollies]

1" tees, 1" male threaded pipe connectors, 1" brass NRV, unless you've drawn a detailed schematic with MTO you're going to be on Facebook forever. You not got a farmshop nearby? This is the kinda job I always forget something..... 

[jimmyyy]

The near by shop has a facebook page, i tell them what i want and they just deliver COD.  Its about 10 miles down the road, but deliver is free over a couple thousand of baht.  The young lady who takes care of my orders speaks great english, sad she is wheel chair bound, but her english is damn near perfect.  I got the 1" tees, 1" brass adding now.  i overdid the PVC but i always need extra 1 inch for the farm irrigation anyways.  I am sure i will have to run down there on the day I do the job, but this will be the bulk of it. 

[bankruatsteve]

14 minutes ago, Crossy said:

 

That's talking about the NRV in the "bypass" line.

 

Right.  I've never had issue with the NRV in the pump.  

[Snow Leopard]

I am looking at installing a 3M APT11 T Aqua Pure from the mains supply to the house direct supply and a 1500L tank. The flow capacity is rated at 8 gpm at 125 psi, which I think is enough. This is just to knock out any debris down to 5 microns. Does anyone have experience using this type of filter? They are all over Lazada at about 4000B.