Importing Dogs From England

[crackers]

My wife wanted to start a dog breeding business in Chiangmai.So we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai ,and guess what a month later it started walking badly .After six visits to 4 different vets we got a diagnosis which agreed with mine, hip displacia.Not giving up we went to the 700 year old stadium dog show to find a better breeder ,and bought another dog who seems fine only problem is when we took lilly back to the kennel for a visit we noticed one of her brothers has hip displacia.Hence we cannot breed from either dog although they cost 25,000 bht,and we spent 10,000 on vet bills.

We have decided to import dogs with hip scores from england.Can anyone give me any advice that might help

[stuandchris]

My wife wanted to start a dog breeding business in Chiangmai.So we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai ,and guess what a month later it started walking badly .After six visits to 4 different vets we got a diagnosis which agreed with mine, hip displacia.Not giving up we went to the 700 year old stadium dog show to find a better breeder ,and bought another dog who seems fine only problem is when we took lilly back to the kennel for a visit we noticed one of her brothers has hip displacia.Hence we cannot breed from either dog although they cost 25,000 bht,and we spent 10,000 on vet bills.

We have decided to import dogs with hip scores from england.Can anyone give me any advice that might help

Yes you can import, you need an import certificate from Dept of Livestock in BKK [www.dld.go.th] you can apply in person or send someone else, the website will explain.

They also say you can fax or e-mail, this is what I am trying to do from the UK with no success yet, a bit of a worry as we leave for Phuket next month.

From the uk you will need an export certificate from DEFRA [google for website]

The dogs will need to be chipped and injecyed for various diseases including rabies. This has to be from a certified vet, the list of vets can be obtained from DEFRA.

Finally the dogs have to be checked by a vet NO MORE then 72 prior to departure for infestations etc. Get them sprayed with frontline and this will take care of any nasties.

Also have them wormed.

Hope all this helps

Stuart

By the way one of our dogs is a retriever, his grandad was a Krufts champ, shame you are so far away in Chiangmai.

[stuandchris]

Sorry forgot to add, vets will recomend that the animal is less than 5 years for a retriever, older than that and they won't adapt to the heat and will really suffer.

[bina]

we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai

and why would expensive neccessarily mean quality, in any country???????

excuse me, but for people that are going in for breeding, why didnt u check out the dog family histories first??? and how do u exactly think to make money ??? dont think most breeders make more than cover costs of vet bills, worming/vacs pregnancy care/ birhting vet bills if needed etc, not to mention stud fees, puppy feeding/treatments/weaning/vacs??? true breeding is an art and a science if u want to make money and be responsible breeders.

and who are your potential customers exactly?? if you are going to sell hp xray certified plus but not shown, is it worth it? who will buy the pups? and if pet quality and affordable, then why go for breeding for money, just get the family bitch pregant with a nice male and sell them to good families....

sorry for cynicism, i'm not even in thailand, but it just ercks me when people decide to do business in breeding w/o credentials and knowlege no matter what country they are in. and goldens seem like a fad dog in thailand, even among these forums lots of folks going for goldens and some of the pics i've seen here on the threads have dogs that dont seem to meet the standard of what a golden really should look like and probably many with h/d. the dogs may be sweet and friendly but they dont meet standards which is what breeding is about.

[quiksilva]

Yes I'll be one of those going for a Golden too and I have been looking into this quite a bit recently and have been appalled by conditions at some breeders, often they dont let you meet the parents dont provide vet certifications etc steer well clear of these.

I have however found what I believe to be a very good breeder who has a number of Thai and Regional Champions under his belt (I found them by checking out the Pet magazines).

This kennel is based just outside Bangkok near the Rose Garden and I was absolutely floored by the quality of the kennels, lots of room for them to run, air conditioned places to sleep in, swimming pools for the dogs, constant grooming, friendly knowledgable staff (at all levels!) and the owner was just as inquistive about us, as we were about the dogs.

This is the only Golden breeder I have found who has met the standards I believe a good kennel should have in Thailand, he says that he breeds for health, intelligence, and temperament and judging from the dogs we saw run about and play I must say that I have little to doubt about his claims.

Here are the pups we met

I'll post up more pics of the compound and the adult dogs later (When I get home). Feel free to PM for details on the breeder if you like.

[taxexile]

We have decided to import dogs

?????

i hadnt noticed a shortage of dogs here.

far from it.

i find the fad for "cute animals as fashion accessories and child pacifiers" sad and sickening beyond belief.

cant your wife find something useful to do.

i make no excuses for my cynicism.

[quiksilva]

we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai

and why would expensive neccessarily mean quality, in any country???????

excuse me, but for people that are going in for breeding, why didnt u check out the dog family histories first??? and how do u exactly think to make money ??? dont think most breeders make more than cover costs of vet bills, worming/vacs pregnancy care/ birhting vet bills if needed etc, not to mention stud fees, puppy feeding/treatments/weaning/vacs??? true breeding is an art and a science if u want to make money and be responsible breeders.

Wise words, most of the (dare I say) more responsible breeders I have met and spoken to here mentioned that they lose money. They breed dogs not because they are driven by profits but rather than by the rewards of strengthening the breed.

As for Golden's being Fad dogs or fashion accessories... rubbish. Goldens and Labs are the most popular dog breeds in the Western World for very good reason.

They are reputed to be relatively easy to train and tend to have a playful gentle temperament that tolerates children well, making them ideal family dogs (but useless guard dogs) but all in all sounds good to me.

As for children pacifiers... consider that some hold the view that with proper parenting and guidance dogs can help teach kids responsibility, and how to care for something other than themselves.

Edited March 13, 2007 by quiksilva

[taxexile]

there are Xmillion dogs roaming the streets here , uncared for and pathetic.

does thailand really need people to import and breed dogs here to satisfy the whims of the fashion conscious.

whats wrong with adopting , caring for and loving a stray street dog.

imho that would impart far more wisdom and responsibility to kids than the "look at me" purchase of a beribboned and manicured pure bred .

[quiksilva]

Nothing wrong with that at all I think its great that so many do take care and adopt strays. I support them 100%.

However, I believe you should select a breed that fits your lifestyle so as to ensure that the dog fits into your home. Just to clarify I'm not talking about fashion here, Im talking about temperament, exercise requirements, health, grooming etc.

The thing with a stray / mongrel is that you just don't know what you are going to get.

My familly adopted a mutt when I was growing up and he was great (I miss him terribly) but I think as a first time dog owner, I personally feel that a pedigree is a 'safer choice' with respect to understanding training requirements, predicting temperament etc. just so long as you buy from a reputable breeder.

Edited March 13, 2007 by quiksilva

[taxexile]

three of my younger thai nieces and nephews were bought some cuddly little balls of fluff (which i later discovered were dogs) from markets where they were sold from small cages surrounded by parents buying these animals for their whining kids.

none of these animals lasted very long , they were literally tortured to death by the kids , being picked up by the ears , tails etc. ,poked with sticks , bathed and lathered with soap , dragged around the neighborhood on the end of a wrongly fitted leash , put to "bed" in the draw along with all the dolls and other toys , imprisoned in cupboards etc.etc. all the while the parents would just sit grinning and watching as these poor little animals were treated in a very rough and harsh way . no effort was made by the parents to show the child that the dog was actually a living thing , they were treated no differently to one of those wind up dogs you can buy.

input from me was greeted with benign head nodding and "let the kids enjoy themselves , dont be so serious"

one dog was caught and killed by a cat , another one was put in a cupboard and forgotten about until a rather nasty smell was detected and the third one got sick and died. all within 3 weeks.

i think the whole concept of keeping a pet is alien to most thais , the sense of responsibility is just not there. the cruelty shown to animals here is awful.

they should stick to wind up or battery operated.

[Old Man River]

we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai

and why would expensive neccessarily mean quality, in any country???????

excuse me, but for people that are going in for breeding, why didnt u check out the dog family histories first??? and how do u exactly think to make money ??? dont think most breeders make more than cover costs of vet bills, worming/vacs pregnancy care/ birhting vet bills if needed etc, not to mention stud fees, puppy feeding/treatments/weaning/vacs??? true breeding is an art and a science if u want to make money and be responsible breeders.

As for Golden's being Fad dogs or fashion accessories... rubbish. Goldens and Labs are the most popular dog breeds in the Western World for very good reason.

They are reputed to be relatively easy to train and tend to have a playful gentle temperament that tolerates children well, making them ideal family dogs (but useless guard dogs) but all in all sounds good to me.

As an owner of a golden, one caveat that I have mentioned before, goldens grow fast and that cute little puppy quickly becomes a cute big dog that can hurt little children. Goldens and labs are very, very playful and will jump on little kids (and adults) thinking they are playing with them. These dogs mature later and won't grow out of this for two to three years. If that isn't a problem, you can't go wrong with a golden. They are wonderful dogs and yes, completely worthless as guard dogs.

[quiksilva]

OMR we are fully aware of their bouncy, mouthy nature and intend to never (read: as much as humanly possible) to leave the kids unsupervised with a dog, accidents can happen all too easily.

Taxexile, sorry to hear that, I really think some people should have a licence to keep pets, licenses to have kids wouldnt be a bad idea either!

[November Rain]

there are Xmillion dogs roaming the streets here , uncared for and pathetic.

does thailand really need people to import and breed dogs here to satisfy the whims of the fashion conscious.

whats wrong with adopting , caring for and loving a stray street dog.

imho that would impart far more wisdom and responsibility to kids than the "look at me" purchase of a beribboned and manicured pure bred .

Thank you, tax.

This obsession with purebreds baffles & frustrates me. I run a dog rescue center. I know that elfe & girlx care for sick street dogs as well (elfe has about 40, I believe..?) Working with Thai dogs & nursing them back to health for the last 3+ years has made me realise what wonderful, loyal, loving & interesting dogs they are. But can we get them adopted once we get them fit & healthy? Very, very rarely. We have had various purebreds through the center, too - a shihtzu, a toy poodle, a rottweiler, a golden & a Cocker spaniel. They get adopted immediately (except the Cocker, who I've had many offers for, but he has behavioural problems, so I won't let him go).

Agree 100% tax, in most cases it's a fashion statement. Very sad. If I had my way, breeding would be severely restricted & all dogs not used for breeding would be neutered by law. The only way to stop the stray problem IMO. Now, I imagine I'm going to get it in the neck....

[crackers]

We contacted a uk breeeder and he said he would sell us a bitch which is 1 week pregnant.He said if I checked in for flight as normal saying the dog was my pet 9 times out of 10 they would let it board as excess luggage.He said if they refuse he would take back the dog and refund my money.Any thoughts ( I bet I get a few)

there are Xmillion dogs roaming the streets here , uncared for and pathetic.

does thailand really need people to import and breed dogs here to satisfy the whims of the fashion conscious.

whats wrong with adopting , caring for and loving a stray street dog.

imho that would impart far more wisdom and responsibility to kids than the "look at me" purchase of a beribboned and manicured pure bred .

Thank you, tax.

This obsession with purebreds baffles & frustrates me. I run a dog rescue center. I know that elfe & girlx care for sick street dogs as well (elfe has about 40, I believe..?) Working with Thai dogs & nursing them back to health for the last 3+ years has made me realise what wonderful, loyal, loving & interesting dogs they are. But can we get them adopted once we get them fit & healthy? Very, very rarely. We have had various purebreds through the center, too - a shihtzu, a toy poodle, a rottweiler, a golden & a Cocker spaniel. They get adopted immediately (except the Cocker, who I've had many offers for, but he has behavioural problems, so I won't let him go).

Agree 100% tax, in most cases it's a fashion statement. Very sad. If I had my way, breeding would be severely restricted & all dogs not used for breeding would be neutered by law. The only way to stop the stray problem IMO. Now, I imagine I'm going to get it in the neck....

[November Rain]

You're considering putting a pregnant bitch on a long-haul flight with all the stresses involved for dogs on flights? And if she's 1 week pregnant now, what will she be by the time she flies? Words fail me...

Edit - I would never buy a dog from a breeder who even suggested such a thing. IMO, shows how little he cares for his dogs, apart from as a money making exercise !

Edited March 24, 2007 by November Rain

[Nienke]

My wife wanted to start a dog breeding business in Chiangmai.So we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai ,and guess what a month later it started walking badly .After six visits to 4 different vets we got a diagnosis which agreed with mine, hip displacia.Not giving up we went to the 700 year old stadium dog show to find a better breeder ,and bought another dog who seems fine only problem is when we took lilly back to the kennel for a visit we noticed one of her brothers has hip displacia.Hence we cannot breed from either dog although they cost 25,000 bht,and we spent 10,000 on vet bills.

We have decided to import dogs with hip scores from england.Can anyone give me any advice that might help

I had a couple of months ago a couple visiting my dog boarding and training center for advice on their most adorable Golden Retriever puppy of about 3 to 3 1/2 month old. He was a foreigner and she was Thai. They had bought the pup from a most respectable Golden Retriever breeder in Chiang Mai, because they were planning to breed with this pup.

They came to me for advice and to teach the pup to swim as it had severe problems with the paws. They were convinced the pup had hip-displasia. Only I saw that the puppy wasn't capable of using ALL 4's.

I told them, that although I'm not a vet nor a fysiotherpist for animals, i was doubting about the fact that the pup suffered problems with the hips alone, as it was clear it hadn't strength at all to stand for even 30 seconds. The owner told me that X-rays taking from the hips showed that the pup had hip-displasia and that it was confirmed by the vet. However, to my knowledge X-rays taken of such a young puppy can't yet indicate whether it has or has not hip-displasia. The bones are still growing and possible damage can often still reverse when given a proper diet, proper excercise, proper rest and also often homeopathic medicines can be of great help. Something I also told the owners.

I was asking about the diet of the puppy which turned out to be low quality cheap kibble. I suggested to change this into preferable a raw diet or, otherwise, a high quality diet such as Nutro or Science Diet, as I strongly got the impression that the puppy was lacking all sorts of nutrients making it so weak. Also, if a puppy lacks nutrients it is very likely to develop problems such as hip displasia, even if it has not a hereditary predisposition (if I pronounce this well). I explained this all to them and told them how to change the diet into raw, that Vitamin C can be of great help and several other things.

I also suggested to go swimming with the pup every day. They could do the swimming at my place, but then I will charge a small fee, or they could go to Huay Tung Tao which has a great huge lake for the dogs (and humans) to swim, and I explained how to go there. Furthermore, I showed them how to support the puppy when in the water.

By co-incidence I met this breeder, whom I respect, during that time at the vet and asked him about the puppy, and he was sincerely upset about the whole situation. Although, he did not want to take the dog back ...hhmm... He said, at the time of the purchase the puppy was in perfect health and I believe him in this. Also the vet's weren't very impressed with the behavior of the owner.

After this one visit I never saw or heard of them again. I still wonder what happened to this poor little puppy.

Last but not least, I totally agree with November Rain that flying a pregnant bitch is not in the benefit of the well-being of bitch nor the unborn puppies, only for the ones who sell and buy.

Just my side of the coin,

Nienke

[crackers]

My wife wanted to start a dog breeding business in Chiangmai.So we bought the most expensive goldon retriever from the most expensive kennel in chiangmai ,and guess what a month later it started walking badly .After six visits to 4 different vets we got a diagnosis which agreed with mine, hip displacia.Not giving up we went to the 700 year old stadium dog show to find a better breeder ,and bought another dog who seems fine only problem is when we took lilly back to the kennel for a visit we noticed one of her brothers has hip displacia.Hence we cannot breed from either dog although they cost 25,000 bht,and we spent 10,000 on vet bills.

We have decided to import dogs with hip scores from england.Can anyone give me any advice that might help

I had a couple of months ago a couple visiting my dog boarding and training center for advice on their most adorable Golden Retriever puppy of about 3 to 3 1/2 month old. He was a foreigner and she was Thai. They had bought the pup from a most respectable Golden Retriever breeder in Chiang Mai, because they were planning to breed with this pup.

They came to me for advice and to teach the pup to swim as it had severe problems with the paws. They were convinced the pup had hip-displasia. Only I saw that the puppy wasn't capable of using ALL 4's.

I told them, that although I'm not a vet nor a fysiotherpist for animals, i was doubting about the fact that the pup suffered problems with the hips alone, as it was clear it hadn't strength at all to stand for even 30 seconds. The owner told me that X-rays taking from the hips showed that the pup had hip-displasia and that it was confirmed by the vet. However, to my knowledge X-rays taken of such a young puppy can't yet indicate whether it has or has not hip-displasia. The bones are still growing and possible damage can often still reverse when given a proper diet, proper excercise, proper rest and also often homeopathic medicines can be of great help. Something I also told the owners.

I was asking about the diet of the puppy which turned out to be low quality cheap kibble. I suggested to change this into preferable a raw diet or, otherwise, a high quality diet such as Nutro or Science Diet, as I strongly got the impression that the puppy was lacking all sorts of nutrients making it so weak. Also, if a puppy lacks nutrients it is very likely to develop problems such as hip displasia, even if it has not a hereditary predisposition (if I pronounce this well). I explained this all to them and told them how to change the diet into raw, that Vitamin C can be of great help and several other things.

I also suggested to go swimming with the pup every day. They could do the swimming at my place, but then I will charge a small fee, or they could go to Huay Tung Tao which has a great huge lake for the dogs (and humans) to swim, and I explained how to go there. Furthermore, I showed them how to support the puppy when in the water.

By co-incidence I met this breeder, whom I respect, during that time at the vet and asked him about the puppy, and he was sincerely upset about the whole situation. Although, he did not want to take the dog back ...hhmm... He said, at the time of the purchase the puppy was in perfect health and I believe him in this. Also the vet's weren't very impressed with the behavior of the owner.

After this one visit I never saw or heard of them again. I still wonder what happened to this poor little puppy.

Last but not least, I totally agree with November Rain that flying a pregnant bitch is not in the benefit of the well-being of bitch nor the unborn puppies, only for the ones who sell and buy.

Just my side of the coin,

Nienke

When I wrote to you about the paralized dog it was because I saw someone was censored for writing the truth so I thought I would do the same,and sure enough I have been censored.I didn't know you replied to my letter 6 months ago ,but thanks for the link.

I asume you cannot give me documents to prove you can cure a dog that a vet cannoot,and which on first sight is being caused to suffer.

I do not know why you answered my letter in march about imports,maybe you thought that one of my dogs is from the same litter as your customers dog.As you reffered to this letter let us look at it.

1) Who was the vet who did not see that all 4 legs did not work?

2)I am afraid you are wrong hip displacia can show on Xrays even before 3 months ,in fact there is a special operation to slightly correct if caught early ,after six months a different operation has to be done.

3) special diets cannot repair hips,if I break my leg and take an asprin it hurts less ,but it is still broken.If you give a dog with hip displacia supplements it will walk better because it feels less pain,the special diet does not repair a birth defect

4) I do not think anyone who pays a lot of money for a dog would feed them the cheapest food,but as you remember this so well maybe you can tell me the brand they were feeding.

5) As the breeder is a friend of yours ,did he tell you that he had done what a respectable breeder would do,take the mother and father dog out of his breeding programe.

Now at last we come to the answer to my question ,and again you got it wrong.

1) You did not mention that a dog before it flys has to be examined and pregnant dogs are not allowed to fly

2) If the dog was allowed to fly 1 week after being sired,they would feel as much discomfort as a woman who has just become pregnant

[sbk]

Well, crackers, it seems you feel the need to continue whatever issue you have in the Pets forum. Be aware that I am as intolerant of your little "war" as the CM forum moderator.

I am not sure why you are so involved in a pet that 1. Isn't yours and 2. was essentially abandoned by a qualified vet.

But, be that as it may, NONE of it has to do with your topic at hand that you felt the need to resurrect after 8 months.

So, please satisfy my curiosity regarding your original post:

Did you import that pregnant bitch? Have you started a dog breeding program and are you providing responsible owners with certified healthy dogs?

[crackers]

Well, crackers, it seems you feel the need to continue whatever issue you have in the Pets forum. Be aware that I am as intolerant of your little "war" as the CM forum moderator.

I am not sure why you are so involved in a pet that 1. Isn't yours and 2. was essentially abandoned by a qualified vet.

But, be that as it may, NONE of it has to do with your topic at hand that you felt the need to resurrect after 8 months.

So, please satisfy my curiosity regarding your original post:

Did you import that pregnant bitch? Have you started a dog breeding program and are you providing responsible owners with certified healthy dogs?

The reason why I wrote was because a previous person who wrote a simillar letter on this chain was censored

No I have not imported a pregnant bitch.As I explained ,before a bitch is allowed to fly it is checked to see if it is pregnant,and if it is it is not allowed to fly.I knew this at the time of writing the first letter ,I just wanted to know if anyone else did,and I was looking fo a reaction, which I received.

It was a retorical question