Buying A Baby Calf

[vertigo4u]

as my Thai Girlfriend would like to buy some Calfs for her Family, I would like to know, how much Calfs are costing?

Where to buy near Nakon Sawan?

Thanks for any help on Informations.

[ozzydom]

as my Thai Girlfriend would like to buy some Calfs for her Family, I would like to know, how much Calfs are costing?

Where to buy near Nakon Sawan?

Thanks for any help on Informations.

How long is a piece of string?. I guess your referring to weaned calves that are no longer dependant on the mothers milk.

It all depends on the breed ,condition,health,physical appearance etc, I see weaners in our local weekly sale for as low as 2k and up to 15k.

[RamdomChances]

Beef or milk ? how old do you want ?

Where is she in Nakohon, I live there and could probably put you in touch with some people, PM me if you want.

[yongyeng]

My girlfriends mother had contacts in the Bua Yai area, not sure where that is to you, but she managed to get hold of two cows for 15000 Baht, one of which was pregnant (if thats the right terminology in cattle).

So I suppose it all depends on certain criteria like the guys above say.

I am definitely a newbie to all this and am looking for more and more info on how realistic it is to run a cattle business in Thailand.

Any thoughts would be greatly received.

Cheers

Yong Yeng

[issanpaul]

My girlfriends mother had contacts in the Bua Yai area, not sure where that is to you, but she managed to get hold of two cows for 15000 Baht, one of which was pregnant (if thats the right terminology in cattle).

So I suppose it all depends on certain criteria like the guys above say.

I am definitely a newbie to all this and am looking for more and more info on how realistic it is to run a cattle business in Thailand.

Any thoughts would be greatly received.

Cheers

Yong Yeng

[yongyeng]

Whats so shocking Paul?

[Maizefarmer]

My girlfriends mother had contacts in the Bua Yai area, not sure where that is to you, but she managed to get hold of two cows for 15000 Baht, one of which was pregnant (if thats the right terminology in cattle).

So I suppose it all depends on certain criteria like the guys above say.

I am definitely a newbie to all this and am looking for more and more info on how realistic it is to run a cattle business in Thailand.

Any thoughts would be greatly received.

Cheers

Yong Yeng

At this stage from you have said - and my comment now is a constructive comment, it is not to knock you or your enthusiam - I would advise you strongly not to buy any more than 1 or 2 calves.

Take a picture of the calve you are thinking of purchcasing in a natural standing position - need to see how the hooves are placed naturally (especially if this is a cow you will want to milk later) - and post it on the forum with the following info.

1) Age

2) Weight.

Add a a close up pic of the teeth/mouth and nose if possible and a close up of the eyes (or at least one of them)

Then I will give you a professional opinion on that particular calf (same applies to any cows you have - picture and I will comment)

2 cows for B15K - thats an awful cheap price by most standards - first thing that comes to mind is that the seller was despereate to raise cash, or the cows are really old and quite small - and for some reason or another cannot be slaughtered for meat consumption (you are not been told something is a possibility) This is pure speculation on my part, I am guessing - but however looked at 2 cows, one in calf - Baht15K = cheap cheap.

If the calve comes from a cow that is milked, some info on her yields may be intersting - but not a big issue.

I hope this does not sound like a hassle for you to get done, but they are in any event considerations anyone buying calves needs to give thought to

So to answer your question - just as everyone else has said: how long is a piece of string - anything from as low as Baht1500/3000 up to 10/12 000 (depending on age/sex/weight/type/parents history & age (for dairy cattle) - and above all, DO NOT BUY on first vieweing - put a deposit down and come back in a couple days to see the calve is still well, is eating ect ect .....

..... and lastly - a very warm wlecome to the farming forum - I wish you well in your farming in Thailand endeavours.

MF

Edited April 20, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[Khonwan]

My girlfriends mother had contacts in the Bua Yai area, not sure where that is to you, but she managed to get hold of two cows for 15000 Baht, one of which was pregnant (if thats the right terminology in cattle).

So I suppose it all depends on certain criteria like the guys above say.

I am definitely a newbie to all this and am looking for more and more info on how realistic it is to run a cattle business in Thailand.

Any thoughts would be greatly received.

Cheers

Yong Yeng

....2 cows for B15K - thats an awful cheap price by most standards - first thing that comes to mind is that the seller was despereate to raise cash, or the cows are really old and quite small - and for some reason or another cannot be slaughtered for meat consumption (you are not been told something is a possibility) This is pure speculation on my part, I am guessing - but however looked at 2 cows, one in calf - Baht15K = cheap cheap.....

At that price I suspect they are Poon Muang (native cattle) - probably Poon Muang Keb (the smaller native cattle that tend to originate from Burma).

Rgds

Khonwan

[RamdomChances]

Both beef and milk cattle prices are very depressed at the moment, although that does sound cheap.

Around here a milker is fetching just a bit over beef prices, you can pick semi decent ones up for less than 20,000, a pregnant one, depending on when it was dried off does'nt nesseseraly go for that much, for example if it was milked for a long time and had trouble getting pregnant it might of been dried off as soon as it was pregnant giving you a 6 months or more wait until it produces milk.

Personaly as far as milk goes I would'nt bother buying anything less than 6 months pregnant. My brother in law bought a 8-10 month ( by the looks of it) old beef calf yesterday for 4,000 bhat !!!

[Khonwan]

.... My brother in law bought a 8-10 month ( by the looks of it) old beef calf yesterday for 4,000 bhat !!!

Now that is cheap! I'm only glad I sold all my cattle two years ago.

IF yongyeng purchased Poon Muang Keb, 15,000 baht would actually currently be too expensive.

[Rinrada]

2 little guys next door to us but they wouldnt stand still...

[yongyeng]

Cheers Guys,

Its not really me who is dealing in the buying of the cows, or anything to do with the business as yet, its her parents, who are experienced farmers, they just havent had any money to buy cattle for a while. Thats where I come in!!

I am just in the background really. Trying to work out whether or not it would be worth going into this business, whether or not

an income could be obtained from this. If there is and it helps support her family, then we will go ahead with it. If it is done right of course!

I havent seen the calves/cows yet, I wouldnt know what to look out for. The more I read on this forum I suppose that will come in time. But if I could get some pictures, I would like to take you up on your offer of your professional viewpoint MF.

I will ask if they are Poon Muang or Poon Muang Keb, KW.

Cheers and hello to everyone.

YY

[chownah]

Yongyeng,

If you want to know about the money making potential the family will have and you are in the background then maybe it would be good if you sort of asked them what their business plan is. I know they probably won't have one but ask them how they tend to raise the cows....out to pasture evey day?...supplement feed?...feedlot?...etc? If you get this info and bring it here it will probably help the experts here to comment on the possible profitiability.

Chownah

[yongyeng]

Hi Chownah,

I get the impression that my girlfriends mother is very switched on in this area, but I'm not so sure if a business plan is in place as such.

My girlfriends sister had bought a couple of calves for their land and it gave her the idea to do the same. With her mothers knowledge and experience she believes this to be a good idea, as long as its profitable, I do too.

Our calves/cows are actually just grazing on their land at present for free, (no supplement feed or feed lot at present, as far as I know) until we sort out some land of our own. There is some land just near our house, which is 6 Rai, we have our eye on that which would cost around 250,000 Baht. So, doesnt break the bank and its close by.

Does 6 Rai sound like a good start?

Cheers all

YY

[chownah]

Yongyeng,

I'm not really sure but are you thinking of being actively involved in this business....you say that you are in the background but maybe this is temporarily while you learn more...is this right? There will probably be a big difference in what happens depending on whether you just let them do their own thing or whether you try to improve on thier methods. I obviously know nothing about your family so this is a general comment that it can cause friction in a family if control and authority is given to someone and later is taken away...if you let them run the show now it might cause friction if later you try to take the reigns. You might consider the possible problems with this but without out any direct knowledge of the situation I would suggest that you at least consider organizing this thing at the outset as your project and make it known that you are only able to undertake this project because of the excellent help and support from your family members....or something like that....the idea being that this gives them face in that you are learning from them and it helps them save face in that you don't have to take it away in the future regardless of whether this is because you want control or if it is because they are screwing up. Its your call here, I'm just trying to give you a heads up on how family relations can be affected by these sorts of things.

If you really just want to let the family do their own thing, then it sounds like they will just take the cows to pasture every day and bring them home every night. I have an uncle who does this....so does he make any money? He is breeding his own stock from his own cows. He gets about one calf per year from each breeding female (he has two).....except sometimes a female won't get pregnant....but let's assume your Thai family are really lucky and they get one calf per year from each female...starting with two females and assuming you sell your cows for meat at age two years then a heard will consist more or less of two breeding females, two 1.5 year old meat cows nearing slaughter, two 0.5 year old calfs that are still sucking. So you've got 4 cows that are eating alot of forage and two calves that eat very little.....so....to be on the safe side consider that you need to provide forage for 5 cows on an ongoing basis. Thai farmers who pasture cows usually don't go to any extra effort to improve the quality of the pasture. If they did....if they watered and fertilized and monitored the degree that the cows had eaten the plants down and moved them to get maximum efficiency you could (according to what has been already posted in other threads here) realistically support one cow per rai.....you've got 5 cow "equivalents"....you would need 5 rai.........this is all really ballpark....I have no idea what your land looks like or how well it could support forage....so let's say that if all is managed well you should be able to produce two saleable meat cows per year from 5 rai. What can you sell these cows for? I have no idea what the market will be in two years time and I don't know what kind of cows you will have or how big they've gotten and frankly even if I did know I wouldn't be able to tell what they're worth since I have never raised a cow myself but have thought alot about this because I've been getting my place organised and ready and hopefully I'll be getting a couple of pregnant cows next year. But....you bought two pregnant female cows for 15,000 baht so its probably likely that you could sell two meat cows for 15,000 baht too...but....you may have lucked out on the price you paid and it seems like from what experienced people have said you should be able to get 10,000 to 15,000 baht for a meat cow....I don't really know but this is the impression I've gotten....It would be sort of suprising if you got a 10,000 baht meat cow out of a 7,500 baht breading female...but let's go with that figure....then you sell two meat cows for 10,000 each giving you a yearly income of 20,000 baht.....your 6 rai (at a cost of 250,000 baht) should be able to provide at least 20,000 baht income per year by producing two marketable meat cows....very rough and sketchy ballpark thinking here....could easily be 30,000 I suppose but let's not be to optimistic. Well, 20,000 baht per year from a 250,000 baht investment is 8% return...not really impressive....AND....remember this is not actually return on investment...it is your gross income for the year...you need to pay for vet bills, you need to consider the labor (even if it is free you should consider that it has some value if you want to do a a real analysis), you need a shed to keep them in, you need to pump water for irrigation and buy fertilizer or if you run organically you need to figure the labor expense of managing the organic fertiliers used.....now its not looking so good.

On the other hand....how likely do you think it is that your Thai family will actually want to, or be able to manage the land in the efficient manner needed to raise 5 cows on 6 rai of land? The usual way to pasture raise cows here is to run them on the rice land in the off season and any unfenced land is considered fair play to run cows on...all the local farmers run their cows on my land but that will soon stop as my fencing is nearing completion. I intend to try to manage my land so that I can sustain two breeding females and their offspring on my own land and if I am successful it will be the first time that any of the locals have ever seen such a thing.

So....my long post has not said anything definite but the idea is to show you a way to think about what the possible scenerios might be. There are alot of threads here already talking about raising cows so go look for them...lots to learn there already.

Chownah

[Maizefarmer]

Fertilisr, correct forage crop for your land conditions - very important, which doesn;t mean grow the easiest to grow or the highest yielding (which must take into consideration water avalibility and how you intend to use it), cut 'n carry or eletric fence - and you can manage 2 mature head p/rai or three calves thru to about 18months.

But it will be more work than it's worth it and after labour time is included in the above calc's it simply won;t have anything left.

Your only vaible option is to free range the cattle and supplement their diet in the dry season.

MF

Edited April 23, 2007 by Maizefarmer

[yongyeng]

Hi Chownah,

First of all, I have to thank you for taking the time to write your post, it must have taken ages.

There are many points you have raised that I had never even thought about. Especially the point regarding control of the business etc.

As I am here in the UK and my girlfriend visits me for 6 months at a time, the control would have to be firmly in the hands of the parents at this stage. To be honest, I am not sure the family really see it as a business as we see it, but some sort of opportunity to make use of available funds to build on something that could help them out in the future.

I would like to call it a business, so that it has some sort of importance and something my girlfriend would get interested in, anything that gives her an income, gives her her own independence.

If I am able to help her start this, I have to know myself whether or not it would be worth it, even if it is in the long term. If not, then we can try somethng else. It would be a shame seeing as though her family are very experienced in this line of work.

An 8% return on investment isnt what I was expecting, but at the same time, I suppose it would be a start, even if it is gross.

I will have to run through these figures with my girlfriend and her family and really have a serious discussion about it.

Thanks again for your time Chownah, much appreciated.

YY