Katoy Brother

[cdnvic]

I don't think it's necessary to trash the poster as a homophobe just for asking an honest question. There are a great number of really good people who are uneasy about alternative lifestyles purely because they just aren't used to it. That's why you ask questions.

Maybe after listening to some of the saner answers the OP will be a bit more informed and able to approach the situation with a more informed outlook.

It sure isn't going to educate him about it by calling him a homophobe. If anything it will put him on the defensive and the opportunity for him to learn anything from the situation will be lost.

[Pink Mist]

I don't think it's necessary to trash the poster as a homophobe just for asking an honest question. There are a great number of really good people who are uneasy about alternative lifestyles purely because they just aren't used to it. That's why you ask questions.

Maybe after listening to some of the saner answers the OP will be a bit more informed and able to approach the situation with a more informed outlook.

It sure isn't going to educate him about it by calling him a homophobe. If anything it will put him on the defensive and the opportunity for him to learn anything from the situation will be lost.

If individuals do feel uncomfortable with other alternative lifestyles what happens, who is correct?

Is than an emotion they can control and should they feel guilty because they cant?

There should be flexibility on all sides of orientation attitude at times people are all too eager to jump on the labelling train because the orientations dont match.

Chill is a good pill

[lazeeboy]

I don't think it's necessary to trash the poster as a homophobe just for asking an honest question. There are a great number of really good people who are uneasy about alternative lifestyles purely because they just aren't used to it. That's why you ask questions.

Maybe after listening to some of the saner answers the OP will be a bit more informed and able to approach the situation with a more informed outlook.

It sure isn't going to educate him about it by calling him a homophobe. If anything it will put him on the defensive and the opportunity for him to learn anything from the situation will be lost.

point taken but just trying to get the point over that the katoy is his brother in law

[jdinasia]

I don't think it's necessary to trash the poster as a homophobe just for asking an honest question. There are a great number of really good people who are uneasy about alternative lifestyles purely because they just aren't used to it. That's why you ask questions.

Maybe after listening to some of the saner answers the OP will be a bit more informed and able to approach the situation with a more informed outlook.

It sure isn't going to educate him about it by calling him a homophobe. If anything it will put him on the defensive and the opportunity for him to learn anything from the situation will be lost.

Might be a valid point ... but if he was using jews or blacks as the group would you feel the same?

[bkkmadness]

I guess your wife knows what's best for the kids and wouldn't knowingly put them in danger and I expect she knows her brother pretty well too. As long as you trust your wife's judgement then there should be no problem should there?

[AmeriThai]

Regarding the OP’s fears, the question shouldn’t have anything to with a person’s gender or sexual preferences. The important question is about the person’s sense of RESPONSIBILITY. If the person has clearly shown a lack of responsibility, then what to do should be rather clear. However, if the person has proven him/herself to be an individual who is responsible and reliable, then there really isn’t anything to worry about. Would the OP have the same concerns if the person were just a man or a woman?

[jasreeve17]

I've tried to keep an open mind regarding the irrational fears and prejudices of certain members on this thread, but a post has been deleted for violating forum rules regarding prejudice and bigotry against minority groups. If you want to bash gays in general/transsexuals in general, Thaivisa is not the place.

"Steven"

But post 44 is OK.....

("prejudice and bigotry" is the same, regardless of whether it's being directed at a majority, or minority group.)

Please be evenly consistent. - to bash any group is not wanted on Thai visa, not only one specific group to be determined by one Thaivisa community member. We work best as a mixed group!

I can understand the op's worries, but:-

A) The wife should know her brother well and is unlikely to put her kids in harms way.

- It's not worth being worried about the influence of, a perceived, "strange gender" person here in Thailand, as it's an accepted norm, rather than a minority group. Thus, even if the OP has these fears, irrational or not, short of moving to another country the kids will encounter the good the bad and the ugly here - welcome to Thailand.

(I know that I'm both bad and ugly, before a wiseguy chips in...)

On the other hand:-

A parent has an obligation to protect his children, and any doubts he has should be acted upon.

I'd probably go with argument A, but I'm not the parent in this situation.

Jason

[Ijustwannateach]

Jasreeve: Sexual orientations are not the choice of those who have them- that's what makes them characteristic (along with gender, apparent race/skin colour, etc.) of one class of minority groups. Irrational fears of homosexuality (that's why they use the medical term, *homophobia*), on the other hand, are individual problems. And that's all the questioning of moderation we're going to have. Capiche?

Bronco: I'd say that it's a bit too late for OP to object to his wife's family... isn't there a homily which says that when you marry someone, you marry their family, too? Surely his wife would know if there was something "wrong" with the guy (in terms of taking care of children, not in terms of his choice of dress, sexual orientation, etc.). Of course, as a previous poster said, it's impossible to tell without knowing more of the individual in question. But as OP made it a matter of the gender class of the brother, I see no substance in basing his objection on that alone.

However, you're right that he can't just wave a magic wand and make his irrational feelings go away. If only that were possible... so much good could be done in the world. One of the reasons I actively try not to make many straight friends anymore is that you never know when you're going to come across someone with these feelings, and if I am going to become good friends with someone either the truth will out eventually and ruin things, or I'll have to hide a good part of who I am and that will get in the way... sigh.

I think that his wife may be the one who has to adjust- by learning about homophobia! To be honest, I don't think Thais understand it (because it is so rare here- obviously, in a country where "straight" men can go with katoeys without threatening their manhood and where men can hold hands and sleep in the same bed without anyone's eyebrows raised, etc., etc.). I try not to tell them about it, because I don't want them to think it's cool and emulate it. But maybe someone needs to take the Thai wife aside and explain to her that in the social conditioning of our weird Western countries, men are sometimes made so terrified of physical contact with other men that they will sometimes commit horrible acts of violence to prove that they are incapable of physical affection (whether they are gay or not). And sadly, those who are the most terrified are often also those whose great propensity for love has been twisted inwards. Most Thais have the sensible, non-homophobic view that the alternative sexualities of other persons are not threatening.

In any case, his wife will need to learn that he has this problem with those with other sexualities, and whether or not she can help him get over it in the long term she will have to put up with the inconvenience it causes in the meantime. I agree that it's not something she or OP can simply ignore, for better or for worse.

Has OP chimed in to this thread recently, by the way?

"S"

[ZhangYimou]

i wouldnt leave my sons with my wifes brother, gay or striaght unless i really knew him well. it seems like a bad idea.

[cdnvic]

Might be a valid point ... but if he was using jews or blacks as the group would you feel the same?

Nobody's born as a man in a dress. Few gay men do it, many straight men do. Regardless of who you feel yourself to be, becoming either a transvestite or transexual is an an overt choice, and not a very common one.

That's far different from being born Jewish or Black.

I'm not meaning this as any slam against anyone, as I don't think this should be a problem if he's otherwise good with the kids. I'm just pointing out that the OP's confusion isn't something that should cause disparaging remarks to be thrown at him just because he's asking an honest question.

[KhunMarco]

Jasreeve: Sexual orientations are not the choice of those who have them- that's what makes them characteristic (along with gender, apparent race/skin colour, etc.) of one class of minority groups. Irrational fears of homosexuality (that's why they use the medical term, *homophobia*), on the other hand, are individual problems. And that's all the questioning of moderation we're going to have. Capiche?

Bronco: I'd say that it's a bit too late for OP to object to his wife's family... isn't there a homily which says that when you marry someone, you marry their family, too? Surely his wife would know if there was something "wrong" with the guy (in terms of taking care of children, not in terms of his choice of dress, sexual orientation, etc.). Of course, as a previous poster said, it's impossible to tell without knowing more of the individual in question. But as OP made it a matter of the gender class of the brother, I see no substance in basing his objection on that alone. snip....

Post of the day

[Crow Boy]

I don't think it's necessary to trash the poster as a homophobe just for asking an honest question. There are a great number of really good people who are uneasy about alternative lifestyles purely because they just aren't used to it. That's why you ask questions.

Maybe after listening to some of the saner answers the OP will be a bit more informed and able to approach the situation with a more informed outlook.

It sure isn't going to educate him about it by calling him a homophobe. If anything it will put him on the defensive and the opportunity for him to learn anything from the situation will be lost.

I hope that the OP is still on this post and reading the advice - considered and illconsidered then making his own decision. I also hope that some of the posters from the extremes of view might learn from the other side and reconsider their position.

I agree with cdnvic that reverting to name calling will not help and if this topic is to stay alive it must be tempered by BOTH sides. I think this topic has a great deal to teach us, it is something that almost all of us living in Thailand will or have encountered. I lived in a family group of four generations of Thais for 6 months. One of the brothers was a Katoey and had always been that way inclined. He didn't suddenly change, he didn't catch a disease, or go on drugs, he was a katoey. He was totally accepted within the family and the village for who he was.

If individuals do feel uncomfortable with other alternative lifestyles what happens, who is correct?

A lot of what we fear is what we don't know or understand. There are rational fears and irrational fears. Most people have a fear of snakes because snakes can bite and kill you, however to equate all snakes as dangerous is irrational. However until you can identify the dangerous ones from the non dangerous ones it is prudent. With knowledge and experience you can learn to identify them and safely handle them. The point to this is to dismiss a lifestyle because of not being uncomfortable is short sighted. Where I lived in Sydney had a large population of Muslims who for a variety of reasons were being subjected to racial intolerance. My next door neighbour was a muslim from Lebanon and he was one of the nicest people you could know. His family were very polite and the house immaculate, they were quietly living out their lives. I have lived in Arab countries at various times and the majority of Muslims are like this. There are also fanatics who cause the entire group to be tarred with the same brush.

In Thailand we are constantly surrounded by an alternative lifestyle, we farung don't fit what is normal. We are the ones who have to make the adjustments to acomodate the changes and from that we learn and develop. I think it makes us better people to be put into situations where we have to deal with these situations. Live with a black family and you won't know what it is to be black but you will have a better understanding of the issues they face every day. Live with a Muslim family, or a Chinese family, or "heavens to Bettsy" a couple of gays and you will expand your horizons.

I have always believed that if you know who you really are you will not be confronted by alternative lifestyles. I know I am not racist because colour of skin or country of origin make no difference to me. I have lived and worked in 37 countries over my 49 years and have learned a lot from each place. I know I am not gay so I am happy in the company of gay men and women, I am not confronted by it. I think a lot of people are confronted by it because deep down inside what we hate in others is what we fear in ourself.

Is than an emotion they can control and should they feel guilty because they cant?

I have always believed that if you know who you really are you will not be confronted by alternative lifestyles. I know I am not racist because colour of skin or country of origin make no difference to me. I have lived and worked in 37 countries over my 49 years and have learned a lot from each place. I know I am not gay so I am happy in the company of gay men and women, I am not confronted by it. I think a lot of people are confronted by it because deep down inside what we hate in others is what we fear in ourself.

There should be flexibility on all sides of orientation attitude at times people are all too eager to jump on the labelling train because the orientations dont match.

Labelling is always a dangerious thing because it then implicates that "you are this so you can't be that" I agree that tolerance from all parties should be excercised.

Chill is a good pill

To be honest this is where I think you moderators are needed. This type of forum will always become heated because it pushes all the buttons. This was the reason I was hesitant to get involved in it from the start. I thought it may have been an attempt to get a flame war going. I think that you (collective) moderators need to gently keep the topic on track and within a generally accepted level of debate. I think it is a very interesting thread and has a lot to offer so hope it can be controlled not killed as so often happens.

[MarkBKK]

Might be a valid point ... but if he was using jews or blacks as the group would you feel the same?

Nobody's born as a man in a dress. Few gay men do it, many straight men do. Regardless of who you feel yourself to be, becoming either a transvestite or transexual is an an overt choice, and not a very common one.

That's far different from being born Jewish or Black.

I'm not meaning this as any slam against anyone, as I don't think this should be a problem if he's otherwise good with the kids. I'm just pointing out that the OP's confusion isn't something that should cause disparaging remarks to be thrown at him just because he's asking an honest question.

''Nobody's born as a man in a dress.'' Ignoring the literal meaning (i.e. coming out of the womb wearing clothes), may I just say what a very offensive remark that is?

''Few gay men do it ...'' Er ... that's because they are gay men, not TVs/TSs.

What you posted is the same as saying ''Nobody's born gay ... 'becoming' gay is an overt choice ...''

I'm sure it was a slip of the fingers, or an area of human nature/sexuality that you are unfamiliar with, but as I said, very offensive.

You also seem to be confused by the differences between transvestites and transexuals.

A few posters in this thread really don't seem to be helping. I'm afraid you're one of them. (Er ... this post probably isn't helping the OP either.)

[LaoPo]

You don't need a -Thai- Female, Male, Katoey or bisexual 'Caretaker' to (the fear of) abuse children....

Carer guilty of abusing children

WARNING! This is not a pleasant story!

"A woman who punished three young children in her care by ramming sticks down their throats has been convicted of abuse spanning 20 years."

"The prosecution said Spry's treatment was "horrifying" and "sadistic". "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ire/6469849.stm

and here:

Two decades of abuse went unseen

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england...ire/6449027.stm

LaoPo

[garro]

The fact that the OP is married to a Thai means that he is likely to be viewed as a sexual deviant himself by many in his home country as well as in Thailand. Whether we like it or not, many people stereotype any Farang-Thai couple they see. This is especially true of Farang men who are often viewed as sexual degenerates. While this sort of stereotyping is very unfair it is no more unfair then viewing Kathoeys as potential paedophiles. As mentioned previously, I would be far more worried about a 'normal' looking person, especially if they were showing an unhealthy interest in my kids.

[Ulysses G.]

Whether we like it or not, many people stereotype any Farang-Thai couple they see. This is especially true of Farang men who are often viewed as sexual degenerates. While this sort of stereotyping is very unfair...

Not in my case.

[cdnvic]

Might be a valid point ... but if he was using jews or blacks as the group would you feel the same?

Nobody's born as a man in a dress. Few gay men do it, many straight men do. Regardless of who you feel yourself to be, becoming either a transvestite or transexual is an an overt choice, and not a very common one.

That's far different from being born Jewish or Black.

I'm not meaning this as any slam against anyone, as I don't think this should be a problem if he's otherwise good with the kids. I'm just pointing out that the OP's confusion isn't something that should cause disparaging remarks to be thrown at him just because he's asking an honest question.

''Nobody's born as a man in a dress.'' Ignoring the literal meaning (i.e. coming out of the womb wearing clothes), may I just say what a very offensive remark that is?

Talk about thin-skinned... What I mean by that is that cross-dressing is a choice, being gay isn't, neither is being black.

''Few gay men do it ...'' Er ... that's because they are gay men, not TVs/TSs.

Exactly, but there are some who do. You may have read stories about drag queens when you weren't busy being offended.

What you posted is the same as saying ''Nobody's born gay ... 'becoming' gay is an overt choice ...''

No it's not

I'm sure it was a slip of the fingers, or an area of human nature/sexuality that you are unfamiliar with, but as I said, very offensive.

I think it's more a case of you being a little too ready to be offended.

You also seem to be confused by the differences between transvestites and transexuals.

Again, you're wrong.

A few posters in this thread really don't seem to be helping. I'm afraid you're one of them. (Er ... this post probably isn't helping the OP either.)

Stop trying so hard to find offence, and read the posts a little more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

[onzestan]

I agree that one should not be judged by his/her sexual orientation, nor the color of their skin, race, religion etc. but by their behavior, character, loyalty and sense of responsability.

Having said that, we have all had an upbringing that was based on our parents feelings towards certain facts of life, and much of this heritage lingers for the rest of our lives.

Having been married to my Thai wife for over 17 years now, I trust her implicitly with everything financial, loyalty and everything else.

However there is only one exception where I do not trust her judgment completely, and that is in her opinion over her family. Thais can be overprotective where family relations are concerned and do not readily accept negative comments about them.

If the OP has negative feelings about the person in question, for whatever reason, he is entitled to have his doubts and should do what his heart tells him. We are talking about HIS children for god sake.

Onzestan

[Briggsy]

Saraburioz is a troll.

[MarkBKK]

I'm not really offended in the slightest (and after this I'll be too bored to ''contribute'' to this thread anymore). But I do find someone who appears to be reasonable most of the time saying something like ''becoming either a transvestite or transexual is an an overt choice'' quite odd.

Let's examine what you said, shall we?

What you posted is the same as saying ''Nobody's born gay ... 'becoming' gay is an overt choice ...''

No it's not

You said: ''becoming either a transvestite or transexual is an an overt choice''

I take that to pretty much mean (please correct me if I get this bit wrong): ''becoming a transexual is a choice'', or ''my sexual orientation is a matter of choice''. Please explain how this differs from saying ''I choose to be straight'', or ''I choose to be gay''.

Sorry, if you really mean ''What I mean by that is that cross-dressing is a choice'', then it's slightly more understandable -- if not what you originally said (and arguable in its veracity).

''Few gay men do it ...'' Er ... that's because they are gay men, not TVs/TSs.

Exactly, but there are some who do. You may have read stories about drag queens when you weren't busy being offended.

Drag queens are not TVs or TSs. They are gay men in frocks. There is a difference, you know. Of course, it's wrong to generalise, but in general gay men are gay men, transvestites are transvestites and transexuals are transexuals. They'll be some cross-over (ha ha), but not much (in my experience).

I think it's more a case of you being a little too ready to be offended.

No, I'm quite hard to offend. You're miles off offending me. It's just every now and then an ill-informed or inane (or thoughtless) comment will provoke a reaction. I'm sorry, but I'm only human.

[Lots of stuff edited out because it was simply soooooooooooooooo boring.]

Stop trying so hard to find offence, and read the posts a little more carefully before jumping to conclusions.

I think it's because I read what you said that I posted as I did. Being (or as you said, ''becoming'') a transexual is not a matter of choice. Being black or white are not choices either. Being gay isn't a choice. Being straight isn't a choice. These are attributes that one is born with.

So is being ginger, but that's another story.

[cdnvic]

I can't be bothered to explain myself for the third time to someone who is intent on twisting my words finding insult in what I write. Anyone who knows me knows how I think on this, but if someone is too priggish to see what I'm saying and simply must find insult then there's not much I can do. I don't know if you're overly pc, have a victim complex or are just plain thick, but you aren't getting what I'm saying and that's just too bad.

If you can find a single homophobic post from me I'd love to see it.

Edited March 21, 2007 by cdnvic

[Ijustwannateach]

I agree with Briggsy that OP was a troll, especially as he has not returned to face our advice on this *urgent* issue of his. However, it's a worthwhile conversation- no reason not to let it keep going as long as the rhetoric doesn't get too heated. Most people have behaved themselves so far.

Cdnvic and MarkBKK should probably both calm down a little and stick to the issues rather than on who's getting more unreasonably offended than whom...

Incidentally, I'm not a TV or TS, so I can't really speak for them- but giving them the benefit of the doubt, I don't think it's fair to say point blank that they are different as a matter of choice. Certainly they pay a heavy price to live as they do- furthermore, most cultures have had this kind of behavior (transvestism, as well as homosexuality) exhibited in one way or another as far back as we know in history. Perhaps Bambina can give us her point of view on this.

"S"

[Pink Mist]

you cant post those posts Jack, the options for me were trash the post( it will happen) or make invisible, which happened, if I trashed it you got a warning and rating change, this way, you get the warning in a friendlier manner

[PeaceBlondie]

I believe that all behavior is learned (one way or the other), and that behavior is usually chosen. Straight people are born that way, apparently; then they learn how to act straight. Similarly for gay people, apparently. Choices to wear the clothing of the opposite physical gender, or to get surgery, are clearly choices, which may be caused by their natural/normal/learned thoughts.

I'm gay, and for decades I tried my best not to act that way. I sing a Broadway show tune sometimes, but I'm always off-key. I have no interest to wear women's clothing, or date a man who does, but we each have a long list of requirements for potential dates.

I thought the point was well taken, that some Thais are not rational about trusting their own relatives, and may be too fast to trust them when they shouldn't. Same with farangs, about their relatives.

[game4shame]

Saraburioz is a troll.

hence:

Here is the situation - my wife has a brother who dresses like a sister. He wears makeup, has small tits but still has a penis, or so the wife thinks.

''still has a penis, or so the wife thinks''?

why don't you take him/her for a test drive.....put an end to all doubt.

play the game.

[Crow Boy]

However, you're right that he can't just wave a magic wand and make his irrational feelings go away. If only that were possible... so much good could be done in the world. One of the reasons I actively try not to make many straight friends anymore is that you never know when you're going to come across someone with these feelings, and if I am going to become good friends with someone either the truth will out eventually and ruin things, or I'll have to hide a good part of who I am and that will get in the way... sigh.

I think that his wife may be the one who has to adjust- by learning about homophobia! To be honest, I don't think Thais understand it (because it is so rare here- obviously, in a country where "straight" men can go with katoeys without threatening their manhood and where men can hold hands and sleep in the same bed without anyone's eyebrows raised, etc., etc.). I try not to tell them about it, because I don't want them to think it's cool and emulate it. But maybe someone needs to take the Thai wife aside and explain to her that in the social conditioning of our weird Western countries, men are sometimes made so terrified of physical contact with other men that they will sometimes commit horrible acts of violence to prove that they are incapable of physical affection (whether they are gay or not). And sadly, those who are the most terrified are often also those whose great propensity for love has been twisted inwards. Most Thais have the sensible, non-homophobic view that the alternative sexualities of other persons are not threatening.

After I read this post I was going to reply straight away but decided it deserved thinking about. I had a bar for about 12 months and had the usual assortment of bargirls but also had two katoey's working for me. Both of the katoeys (what is the plural of katoey - katoeies? kataoeys?) did very well despite the bar being filled with the usual expat and tourist crowd. Many men seem to perceive having sex with a katoey - cut or uncut - as being different from having sex with a man. The same "blokey guy" who would punch out any gay guy chatting him up would happily buy breezers all night for one of the katoey girls. In Thailand this is not unusual and many Thai men will happily sleep with them. I also know of at least one who is a mia noi for a happily married Thai man with children here in Chiang Mai. I think these men choose to express their homosexual tendencies with a katoey because they feel less confronted by that than if they went with a gay man. Which raises the question from earlier that people are born homosexual not created, I think that sexual preference is more complicated than that, it is more a tendency towards than an absolute. Some people have very strong tendencies towards one orientation and others waver between. I think that for many homosexual men the tendency is obviously far more orientated towards being homosexual and similarly for heterosexual men. These are the "born that way" but there are some with less definite tendencies and they may choose to be one (homosexual or heterosexual) or both (bisexual). I think the situation arises for some when they are born of the opposing gender to their orientation ie kayoey born as a male but having strong female orientation. These people either choose or have are compelled to behave as women not gay men. They dress in women's clothing because that is who they are - female not gay. They are the katoey's. The other and less common group is females born as females but with strong masculine tendencies - the toms as opposed to the western term lesbians who it was explained to me by a Thai girl are girls who have sex for the gratification of men who like to watch them. In Thailand it is culturally more acceptable to live as they wish but katoey are still strongly discriminated against by the law even if they are generally accepted by their family and society.

The second part that made me wonder is from the paragraph where you don't make friends with straight men because you are afraid that they will find out you are gay? Umm you are saying in one part that you want straight men to accept gay men as people and friends but then effectively disciminating against straight men by refusing to be friends with them. Isn't that like saying I would like to have a black man be my friend but I don't in case he finds out I'm white? I think that for the main, people are people and will accept or reject what they want. We cannot change everyone but if we ALL change the attitude of ONE person it will make a difference.

The last part in your message where you wrote some one may have to explain to the wife's family about the prejudices of western men to gays is something I had to do. It took a lot of effort because it was something they just could not understand. In the end they didn't understand it but accepted it as just another reason why Thai culture is superior to western - they just may be right.

[Ijustwannateach]

Crow boy,

Thanks for your honest and open message. I wasted time and burned myself emotionally on being friends with a few straight men who then rejected me when they got to know me better. I might have changed one of them; I don't know- he never had the guts to meet me again to apologise for his behavior when he rejected me. It's just not worth the risk. If I know a guy has a few gay friends already, that's different; but I don't owe the world any more changes gambling with my feelings. Anyway, this is off-topic.

I'm glad you seem to find that Thai men are the same way I perceive them- and I think your solution is what is required for OP's wife, assuming he was for real and not a troll.

Off-topic confidential to the deleted poster:

Pedophiles are not classified by most psychologists as "straight" or "gay." To be straight or gay you need to be attracted to sexually mature adults of the species. Further attempts to steer this thread into flames linking homosexuality to pedophilia will continue to receive strong discipline from me.

"Steven"

[bina]

However there is only one exception where I do not trust her judgment completely, and that is in her opinion over her family. Thais can be overprotective where family relations are concerned and do not readily accept negative comments about them.

i think this might sum it up better. when in thailand with 19 yr old daughter, we received an invit from brother in law (i just met the family, never knew them, or heard much about them previously frm my husband) to sleep at his house (they have a 'real' house as opposed to a falling apart issan type open house on platform). my daugher absolutely refused as she noticed that the guy was handling the young boys in their crotches, and also rubbing against her often. he was also drunk for the most of the time we were there. my husband at first ignored my daughter when she pointed out the 'crotch feelies' to him. he said that the guy was just playing around. when we pointed out that the boys refused to sit near him (the brother in law) or would put books on their laps to prevent hands approaching, he just said 'mai ben rai'.

later, when i asked him about this attitude of his, his answer was : "the guy is my sister's husband. what can i say. so T. doesnt have to sleep at his house, we'll just tell him that she prefers to stay with us in the same place. but i cant do anything about the touching the boys part. all the parents (of the boy cousins) know about him, but there's nothing we can do..."

btw, one of my hubby's uncles (a 60 yr old) is a katoey (we actually didnt notice!! that she was a he; we thought that he was my husband's aunt!!!he only pointed this out to us when we got ack from the vacation) and a good responsible person. another 'cousin' is also a katoey (a 19 yr old)but a real drinker. so it only goes to show: sexual orientation absolutely has nothing to do with responsibility or safety or anything else for that matter.

a side note. my husband, isaan thai with katoeys that he loves and respects within the family, is absolutely homophobic. he doesnt like gays. it bothers him. a katoey does not bother him as he says a katoey is a boy born by accident and should be a woman. gay is a man that likes men which disgusts him . so, thats a thai male point of view.

bina

israel

[Neeranam]

"the guy is my sister's husband. what can i say

Bina, I can think of a lot to say.

If my sister's husband was feeling up my daughter and boys in my family, he wouldn't be part of the family anymore. What a creep.

[Ulysses G.]

When I lived out in the boonies, everyone in the neighborhood would come by and stroke the baby's weenies when they got a stiffy - men and women. Everyone just laughed including the boy's family.

What's that about?

Edited March 22, 2007 by Ulysses G.