Validity Of Thai Marriages Abroad

[drlawrence]

Sorry this is probably a really stupid question, but I'd really like to know. If a, say British guy, marries a Thai girl in Thailand, is the marriage automatically recognised in the UK? Or does it need to be registered or something? If, for example, the British guy wanted to re-marry in the UK, would he be legally required to divorce the Thai girl first? Would anyone outside Thailand ever know that he'd been married? Thank you.

[hotshot]

A marriage in Thailand is only legal in other countries if you get the marriage certificate from the local Amphur.

[manfromoz]

A marriage in Thailand is only legal in Thailand if you get it done at the Amphur. No other form of wedding is legally binding.

[Pink Mist]

The easiest way to get married IMHO is to use a translation company that offers this service. Most companies organise everything, translations, transportation to and from Amphur and deal with staff at Amphur.

There's a fee of course but in our case was money well spent, they smooth the process therefore cutting down the time it normally takes, all done in one day.

[thaihome]

I don't know how it works for Brits, but for US citizens, if you went to an Amphur and got a marriage certificate (no ceremony done there, that is separate) then you are legally married in the US. No registration at Embassy required or even accepted. If you were to marry someone else in the US, you have committed bigamy, which in virtually every US state, is a felony. I would be surprised if it is much different for Brits, though I have been told there is some sort of registration at Embassy required for marriage to be binding in UK.

Unless someone complained (like Thai wife) then no one would know and in reality you could get away with it.

Not something I would recommend though.

If all you did was a ceremony, you are not legally married.

TH

[john b good]

A marriage in Thailand is only legal in Thailand if you get it done at the Amphur. No other form of wedding is legally binding.

Well things must have changed because the courts will / would accept an application for a divorce where one has an official marriage certificate for a marrage between a Thai and a "farang" (sh*t I dislike that word) from outside of Thailand even when the marriage is not / was not registered at an Amphur

in Thailand. And I mean not ever registered at an Amphur.

So that contradicts the claim that the only marriage that is legally binding is "if you get it done at the Amphur"

It's from the horses (or one of them horses) mouth.

[Pink Mist]

Try and get a Spouse Visa in a lot of countries without the translated copy of the Amphur issued Wedding Certificate.

[Padkapow Guy]

I don't know if this is true but it was told to me about 15 years ago while I was in the army. The U.S. does not recognize a buddist ceremony, so a few guys had Thai wives in Thailand and American wives in the states(with no intention on bringing thm to the U.S.). It was suppose to be legal. I have never read anything on this so I don't know if it is correct. Maybe some of our well traveled posters might have more knowledge on this.

[NedKelly]

If you are a Brittish citizenand wish your marriage to be recognised in the UK, then you have to be married officially in Thailand with your 'marriage' being registered at the Amphur office....usually Bnag Rak. There is not even a need to have an actual wedding, you just register, have your documents translated etc.

I am not 100% sure about your case but when two Brits get married here they still must register at the Amphur office and before that they fill out forms at the Embassy to say they can be legallly married and that there is no legal binding with anothe rmarriage inth eUK or anywhere else. All the documents must be translated and then lodges again at the Embassy so they can send them to the General registrationOffice in the UK. Documents actually lodged there are not registered, only recorded so u can retrieve them in future. But you would have your own copies anyway.

The ealier suggestion to go through an agent is a good one. But keep it in mind that the actual costs for doing this are not that great. You should not pay more than say 14,000 baht. But if you ar e marrying a Thai person then do it yourself. the running around is not that bad......the UK Embassy lists all the things yo uneed to do......eg Embassy, translator, Thai Dept of Foreign affairs at Chaeng Wattana Road., Bang Rak Amphur Office, translator and embassy. Thios is for two brits........in your case it could be less.

[Pink Mist]

Cost me about 9000baht couple of years ago, but was so much easier, no messing around and we didnt have to hang around BKK waiting.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

A marriage in Thailand is only legal in Thailand if you get it done at the Amphur. No other form of wedding is legally binding.

Well things must have changed because the courts will / would accept an application for a divorce where one has an official marriage certificate for a marrage between a Thai and a "farang" (sh*t I dislike that word) from outside of Thailand even when the marriage is not / was not registered at an Amphur

in Thailand. And I mean not ever registered at an Amphur.

So that contradicts the claim that the only marriage that is legally binding is "if you get it done at the Amphur"

It's from the horses (or one of them horses) mouth.

<_<

The ONLY valid Thai wedding requires the Amphur registration. Some Embassies will perform marriages but the marriage is according to the laws of the country concerned. A Temple 'marriage' has no force of law whatsoever in Thailand or elsewhere.

[mbkudu]

It is quite an easy process to do without an agent. All you need really is permission to marry paper from your embassy and also a Thai translation of it,

money for the registration (ten years ago it was 500 baht when I married), and a

'tip' for the officer. Just make sure that you really want to go through with it. The good thing about getting married in Thailand is that it is just as easy to get a divorce; the same easy process in reverse. Haven't done it yet.

[cutethaigirl]

Well things must have changed because the courts will / would accept an application for a divorce where one has an official marriage certificate for a marrage between a Thai and a "farang" (sh*t I dislike that word) from outside of Thailand even when the marriage is not / was not registered at an Amphur

in Thailand. And I mean not ever registered at an Amphur.

So that contradicts the claim that the only marriage that is legally binding is "if you get it done at the Amphur"

It's from the horses (or one of them horses) mouth.

Rule number one... only listen to Government Officials not horses.

No registration and certificate from the Amphur = NO MARRIAGE. Any other form of ceremony is for 'show' only.

Often one follows the other but YOU MUST obtain the certificate.

THen have it translated to English and it is legal worldwide.

Uk certianly, others probably require the signature of the Embassy representative for which the fee is the same as in UK.

Wedding with huge party rather a lot cheaper.

hth

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Exactly Cute. But as it came from the horse this guy won't be a willing listener

[sbk]

I don't know if this is true but it was told to me about 15 years ago while I was in the army. The U.S. does not recognize a buddist ceremony, so a few guys had Thai wives in Thailand and American wives in the states(with no intention on bringing thm to the U.S.). It was suppose to be legal. I have never read anything on this so I don't know if it is correct. Maybe some of our well traveled posters might have more knowledge on this.

Correct, a simple Buddhist ceremony is not recognized. However, a marriage at the local amphur is legally binding. And, I believe bigamy is illegal in every state in the US (although I believe Utah turns a blind eye to it . surprise surprise )

[john b good]

A marriage in Thailand is only legal in Thailand if you get it done at the Amphur. No other form of wedding is legally binding.

Well things must have changed because the courts will / would accept an application for a divorce where one has an official marriage certificate for a marrage between a Thai and a "farang" (sh*t I dislike that word) from outside of Thailand even when the marriage is not / was not registered at an Amphur

in Thailand. And I mean not ever registered at an Amphur.

So that contradicts the claim that the only marriage that is legally binding is "if you get it done at the Amphur"

It's from the horses (or one of them horses) mouth.

The ONLY valid Thai wedding requires the Amphur registration. Some Embassies will perform marriages but the marriage is according to the laws of the country concerned. A Temple 'marriage' has no force of law whatsoever in Thailand or elsewhere.

I appreciate that you have a wealth of knowledge of things "Thai" but a legal marriage is a legal marriage wherever it is peformed.

The emphasis is on the word "legal" and we (or I) are not discussing a wedding at the temple or at the girls house here (in Thailand)

If a person is legally married it is recognised anywhere in the world.

If a person is legally married and they enter another recognised marriage i.e. registering one at an Amphur it is then bigamy.

If they just want to go through the unregistered one at the house they can do pretty much as they like.

Whilst it might sound a bit far fetched a friend of mine was investigated by a representative of the British police as he had "an at the house ceremony here in Thailand"

It blew over as they could not get any real evidence that the ceremony did in fact take place.

I am not debating your stated opinion regarding temple marriages and would concur on the point you have made regarding same.

[john b good]

Well things must have changed because the courts will / would accept an application for a divorce where one has an official marriage certificate for a marrage between a Thai and a "farang" (sh*t I dislike that word) from outside of Thailand even when the marriage is not / was not registered at an Amphur

in Thailand. And I mean not ever registered at an Amphur.

So that contradicts the claim that the only marriage that is legally binding is "if you get it done at the Amphur"

It's from the horses (or one of them horses) mouth.

Rule number one... only listen to Government Officials not horses.

No registration and certificate from the Amphur = NO MARRIAGE. Any other form of ceremony is for 'show' only.

Often one follows the other but YOU MUST obtain the certificate.

THen have it translated to English and it is legal worldwide.

Uk certianly, others probably require the signature of the Embassy representative for which the fee is the same as in UK.

Wedding with huge party rather a lot cheaper.

hth

CTG

What you have written reiterates what I have already stated i.e. if it is registered at the Amphur it is legal worldwide.

The same goes for a legal solemised marriage anywhere in the world it is legal in Thailand.

The one thing if it is not registered at the Ampur it would be unlikely to affect a Thai womans right to own land here in Thailand. i.e. if it's not registered at the Amphur she can still own land in her own name.

And if that is not sufficient suffice to say that there are international laws that support my (and your) stated opinions.

I think enough said other than to say I have been down the track and I am speaking from my own personal experience (not as you might have thought from some horses mouth)

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Sorry. I, on first reading I misread your post. We agree. And that Brit investigator was way out of line re your mate's house 'wedding'.

[khunphilip]

Married to Thai in thailand with legal marriage certificate when appllied for my pension rights had to have marriage valid as not married in U.K. This meant sending marriage certificate and wifes birth certificate to pension offices .took about 3 months to be valid but the laugh was according to NHS records I was still married to my first wife who I divorced in 1974 she has been married 3 times since and myself remarried and divorced as well so they only worry about you if you marry outside U.K.However once everything is sorted your wife is entiled to U.K state pension at 60 as long as you are fully paid up member

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Married to Thai in thailand with legal marriage certificate when appllied for my pension rights had to have marriage valid as not married in U.K. This meant sending marriage certificate and wifes birth certificate to pension offices .took about 3 months to be valid but the laugh was according to NHS records I was still married to my first wife who I divorced in 1974 she has been married 3 times since and myself remarried and divorced as well so they only worry about you if you marry outside U.K.However once everything is sorted your wife is entiled to U.K state pension at 60 as long as you are fully paid up member

So much for those Embassy ' certifications '

[astral]

The marriage certificate from the Amphur, duly translated, was acceptable to the Inland Revenue in the UK to get tax relief for my wife.

That is back in the days when such releif was given!!

[Richard W]

Those with an interest in legal arcana might like to contemplate Item 6 in Private International Law.

I'm sure I've read of a British court trying the divorce of a marriage in Thailand not registered at an amphur. I think a marriage certificate had been issued by a village headman. Perhaps this is a hangover from before the amphurs got a monopoly on legal mariages. Unfortunately, I can't find the page again. I found the following excerpt on the web (in a long collection of extracts) from the book 'My Country Thailand: Its History, Geography and

Civilisation' written by a Thai politician, Phra Sarasas, in 1942

'Thailand is a polygamous country with an ambition to become monogamous.

Marriage has not yet lost its natural aim and purpose. Needless conventions

of the West, and Western attempts to turn marriage to the profit of

priestcraft find no counterpart in Thailand. The Thai still exercise a

fundamental right in their matrimony. The form of marriage is simple and

natural. If a couple openly live together as husband and wife, they are

considered so in the eye of the law. Although the law provides for marriage

registration at the townhall, no civil procedure is compulsory, hence only a religious ceremony to bless the bride and bridegroom is generally resorted

to, and that is all. The usual age of marriage is 16 for the girl and 20 for

the man.'

Remember that that is over sixty years ago!

[bkk_mike]

The one thing if it is not registered at the Ampur it would be unlikely to affect a Thai womans right to own land here in Thailand. i.e. if it's not registered at the Amphur she can still own land in her own name.

A marriage at the Amphur doesn't affect a Thai woman's right to own land either.

The only difference is proof that it is being bought with her own money rather than her husbands money.

(but then, if she's not legally married, she can't be buying land with her husband's money )

[dr_Pat_Pong]

The one thing if it is not registered at the Ampur it would be unlikely to affect a Thai womans right to own land here in Thailand. i.e. if it's not registered at the Amphur she can still own land in her own name.

A marriage at the Amphur doesn't affect a Thai woman's right to own land either.

The only difference is proof that it is being bought with her own money rather than her husbands money.

(but then, if she's not legally married, she can't be buying land with her husband's money )

You are absolutely correct Mike, and it applies to either gender. And a woman marrying a foreigner is now not compelled to change her name to that of her husband's. There seems to still be some confusion about this with the bureacracy. As ever, T i T

[lungbing]

My wife and I were married at the amphur in Khon Kaen on Christmas Day 2000. No ceremony, just the two of us there, plus the other couples getting married at the same time.

When we told my new mother-in-law that we were married she effectively said "oh yes? How interesting." The amphur registration of the marriage meant nothing to her. But five days later at the ceremony at their house with the family from all over Isaan, with nine monks chanting for what seemed hours, then me having my feet washed and an Isaan ceremony when the monks had eaten and left, and then later in the evening with 200 guests pouring water over our hands had all the old ladies in the family in tears.

But these ceremonies should be considered to be blessings on the relationship and not as legally binding. The only binding, ie legal binding , ceremony was the one at the amphur. My private pension fund in England recognised this with no problem although they also wanted a copy of wife's birth certificate translated, as well as the wedding certificate translation.

I hope my wife does get a British Pension, but living here in Khon Kaen I doubt it. But she will get a widow's pension from my private fund.

Derek

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I know how the family feel lungbing. But the valid marriage was at the Amphur.

[Pink Mist]

I don't know what all the discussion is about. If some of the poster's feel that strongly about the villiage marriage being "Legal" then test your theory, apply for a Spouse visa (or anything else requiring a legal wedding status) with a few photos from the ceremony, cause that's the only paper we got.

You can get a letter from the headman I guess, so you could try that too.

Post your results when any official decisions are made requiring proof of marriage.

I think it's all been said now.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I don't know what all the discussion is about. If some of the poster's feel that strongly about the villiage marriage being "Legal" then test your theory, apply for a Spouse visa (or anything else requiring a legal wedding status) with a few photos from the ceremony, cause that's the only paper we got.

You can get a letter from the headman I guess, so you could try that too.

Post your results when results any official decisions are made requiring proof of marriage.

I think it's all been said now.

ain't that the living truth Bronco ? The urban myths live on regardless

[Pink Mist]

This ones dead anyway Doc, is in an "I say", "you say" kind've limbo, going nowhere I'd say.

[h5kaf]

In order to marry in Thailand (I am taking the case of a foreigner wishing to marry a Thai) one must have all ORIGINAL documents certified by the British Consulate officers. These documents will include divorce papers or a certificate by the embassy that you are free to legally marry. Al the required and certified documents then have to be translated into Thai by an offical approved translation service and these translated documents stamped by the Thai equivalent of the British Consul. When all this is done the papers can be taken to any Amphur and in about 20 minutes the necessary paperwork is finished, and a pretty certificate issued. YOU ARE THEN LEGALLY MARRIED in Thailand and the UK. You may choose to register the marriage with the British Embassy in a similar fashion to registering your presence in Thailand with the Embassy - but it is not a requirement.

As in the USA (according to other posts on this topic) it is a crime (bigamy) to marry again in the UK unless fully divorced. The risk of being caught for bigamy is probably the same for Brits who were originally married in the UK as for overseas Brits married overseas. You would have to be grassed up. Your ex might well wish to do that. The punishment is prison.