Dream Shattered...

[bkkmadness]

You might have mentioned she was 4 months pregnant before, why did you leave that information out Helicopter? It certainly gives a lot more sympathy to your fiance IMO.

Now I understand why she needs her family and friends so much, she's gonna have a baby soon, that's a time when a girl wants her Mum, her sisters, her friends near her isn't it? I guess it's one of those times as well when someone might feel a bit more secure being home in an English hospital rather than a Thai hospital. Add into the mix of this hormones and what have you, then I think it's very easy to give her a bit of leeway. I'm surprised her Dad made that comment really considering his daughter is pregnant. And what did the rest of her family say, I'm sure her Mum was a bit more understanding?

You do want this situation resolved don't you, not just wanting people on here to blame her and give you the advice you want which is to what........stay here, start afresh, new girlfriend maybe? Thailand's full of temptations for any man isn't it?

Its a tough situation and I'd like to say stick to your job out here for a while longer and see what happens but what are you going to do, miss out on the birth of your second kid?

I'm not sure you should be taking the moral ground here of trying to work out who's right and who's wrong, in fact it seems a little childish to me. Children are involved for a start and they should come first.

Tough choices, good luck with them.

[helicoptor]

In 1967 I was on a Two and a half year posting to Singapore I received an ultimatum either I left the forces of my wife would divorce me and never let me see the children again. - My wife and I had got married seven years previously while I was in the Forces and all our courting time had been while I was serving so she knew what my life was like -- I bought myself out -- They she did not like me working in the computer field because we were so far from her mother and father. We Moved and I struggled but managed to send all three children to University. They left home and rarely visited us. When I was 65 I was diagnosed as being incurably ill -- My wife immediately refused to accompany on one last holiday and stated that I would have to go to live in a nursing home-- I was told that if I went on a holiday by myself she would divorce me and take everything as well as getting me barred from contacting my children ever again.

I went on Holiday -- and she did --

Don't be a fool like I was -- Cut your losses and don't have to endure thirty years of nagging misery like I did.

Fancy meeting for a drink? half hour with you will make my problems seem like a walk in the park

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

Were you doing 'big naughties' in Thailand? Some married men do let alone unmarried ones.

If the partner finds out, she can get very vexed.

[solent01]

Interesting that only one poster has mentioned location, I would not in anyway want to raise my family in Pattaya, don't get me wrong, Patts is a great place, my wife and I often visit and party, but visiting is one thing, living is another. I'm also surprised with the attitude many posters have voiced regarding you thinking about yourself, look after No.1, your in the best place to be single blah blah blah. What a load of BULL, you both made a commitment by starting a family, you both have to compromise, most important is to keep the communication lines open, if you do not then things will fall apart very quickly. Good luck Helicopter, only you know what’s best for your life, but it would be a shame for your family to fall apart because of a lack of understanding, its at times like these that you really find out what your made of, as the saying goes..... when the going gets tough........

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

If it was the woman writing here as OP. We'd all be like "Oh your poor dear. Don't blame you for leaving him."

We're all sheep.

All together now...Baaaaaaa.

[Wolfie]

would you really want to raise (and educate) your kids in Thailand?

[solent01]

Barney, with all due respect, your comments are inappropriate

[meadish_sweetball]

I'm not sure you should be taking the moral ground here of trying to work out who's right and who's wrong, in fact it seems a little childish to me. Children are involved for a start and they should come first.

My thoughts exactly. This doesn't mean you have to blindly agree to everything your fiancee says, as November Rain said earlier, it might be better for everyone if you stay here - but what it does mean, is that as an adult and father you have a responsibility towards your children, and for that reason you need to find a situation where you are not in trenches with your fiancee - that is when children suffer.

[sbk]

Seems to me BkkMadness is the only man here with a grasp of the situation.

Your fiancee has one child already and is pregnant with another (4 months, you've been here 3, so that means she came out here not knowing she was already pregnant). And you expect her to adjust to life in Thailand while raising a young child (you don't say how young your child is but sounds pretty young) all the while pregnant.

Where is your empathy?

[Boo]

The whole thing with her dad actually makes me feel at bit ill. It sounds to me like he doesn't give a crap about his own child, as long as he is alright then screw her. Even as far as keeping her husband in thailand to work for him (therefore not affecting his life) instead of giving him a couple of weeks/months off to go home & try to sort things out. I dont' know any father who would put himself & his interests above that of his child, even if he did think she was in the wrong. Nasty & sad.

[pumpuiman]

The pregnancy does throw a wrench.

I'm glad I'm not you.

[pumpuiman]

The whole thing with her dad actually makes me feel at bit ill. It sounds to me like he doesn't give a crap about his own child, as long as he is alright then screw her. Even as far as keeping her husband in thailand to work for him (therefore not affecting his life) instead of giving him a couple of weeks/months off to go home & try to sort things out. I dont' know any father who would put himself & his interests above that of his child, even if he did think she was in the wrong. Nasty & sad.

Who's flaming now?

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

Barney, with all due respect, your comments are inappropriate

Well, whats wrong with hearing her side of the story? There presumably is one.

Come on try to have some sort of enquiring mind. Everything is not necessarily rainbows and lollipops in matrimony.

Every time we have this sort of topic, and someone asks "Were you squeaky clean?"...the coy response from various liberal elements is "Ooooh, you can't ask that!"

[Boo]

Where is the flame. Stating an opinion from the info the op has given. Get the terminoligy right pls.

[bkkmadness]

Barney, with all due respect, your comments are inappropriate

No, not inappropriate, it points out the fact that the OP is asking for advice on a thread full of men, many of which don't like western women and have left there own wives for a life in Thailand. You're going to see a fair bit of biased advice, is this what the OP wants? Well maybe.

I see a lot of talk about her breaking her commitments but like someone else just said, what happened to your commitment to the child?

Are you gonna tell him a later date, "Well it was all your mother's fault, she chickened out of moving permanently to Thailand whilst she was in the first stages of pregnancy. Can you believe son, she even didn't try to mix it up as well as me with the local expat community whilst she was carrying you unborn brother. I told her to get a job son, but she ran away from that too. Your grandfather will tell you more...."

A little harsh maybe on Helicopter but want to add a balance to all the 'leave her and live here' brigade arguments.

[pumpuiman]

Where is the flame. Stating an opinion from the info the op has given. Get the terminoligy right pls.

I reserve the right to plead the fifth amendment.

[helicoptor]

You might have mentioned she was 4 months pregnant before, why did you leave that information out Helicopter? It certainly gives a lot more sympathy to your fiance IMO.

Now I understand why she needs her family and friends so much, she's gonna have a baby soon, that's a time when a girl wants her Mum, her sisters, her friends near her isn't it? I guess it's one of those times as well when someone might feel a bit more secure being home in an English hospital rather than a Thai hospital. Add into the mix of this hormones and what have you, then I think it's very easy to give her a bit of leeway. I'm surprised her Dad made that comment really considering his daughter is pregnant. And what did the rest of her family say, I'm sure her Mum was a bit more understanding?

You do want this situation resolved don't you, not just wanting people on here to blame her and give you the advice you want which is to what........stay here, start afresh, new girlfriend maybe? Thailand's full of temptations for any man isn't it?

Its a tough situation and I'd like to say stick to your job out here for a while longer and see what happens but what are you going to do, miss out on the birth of your second kid?

I'm not sure you should be taking the moral ground here of trying to work out who's right and who's wrong, in fact it seems a little childish to me. Children are involved for a start and they should come first.

Tough choices, good luck with them.

We are both to blame for this outcome, but nevertheless whats done is done, agreed it is a difficult situation and ultimately I have to make a tough decision, I question the solidity of our relationship, we are both equally stubborn

I think for now it will be a case of me to you, you to me to maintain contact with my son, the baby is due in September and I will make sure I am in the UK for that at least

[bkkmadness]

Your fiancee has one child already and is pregnant with another (4 months, you've been here 3, so that means she came out here not knowing she was already pregnant).

I don't think anybody can honestly hold the moral high ground against a woman changing her decision on living in Thailand when she made that decision not knowing she was going to be dealing with pregnancy in the first year of living here. It can be hard to adjust to living in this country anyway, with pregnancy on top of that, very difficult.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

You might have mentioned she was 4 months pregnant before, why did you leave that information out Helicopter? It certainly gives a lot more sympathy to your fiance IMO.

Now I understand why she needs her family and friends so much, she's gonna have a baby soon, that's a time when a girl wants her Mum, her sisters, her friends near her isn't it? I guess it's one of those times as well when someone might feel a bit more secure being home in an English hospital rather than a Thai hospital. Add into the mix of this hormones and what have you, then I think it's very easy to give her a bit of leeway. I'm surprised her Dad made that comment really considering his daughter is pregnant. And what did the rest of her family say, I'm sure her Mum was a bit more understanding?

You do want this situation resolved don't you, not just wanting people on here to blame her and give you the advice you want which is to what........stay here, start afresh, new girlfriend maybe? Thailand's full of temptations for any man isn't it?

Its a tough situation and I'd like to say stick to your job out here for a while longer and see what happens but what are you going to do, miss out on the birth of your second kid?

I'm not sure you should be taking the moral ground here of trying to work out who's right and who's wrong, in fact it seems a little childish to me. Children are involved for a start and they should come first.

Tough choices, good luck with them.

Great post bkkmadness,

I would have to agree here helicopter as I have 4 children of my own and have seen first hand how irrational women can become in this period. It certainly isn't the womens fault but it can be very difficult to go through. I certainly can see why she would want her family(mum), friends etc around her at this point in time as it's only natural. A tough situation and without knowing the complete story, actually without being you, I could not make a decision or offer you advice on what is the right course of action to take....only YOU can decide that and only YOU know deep down what it is you want to do. All I can say is that having been in similar circumstances before in my life I found I already new deep down what the decision was that I wanted to take and I was just looking for reasurance from others that it was the right decision and to make the implementation of that decision easier from my point of view.

Finally all I can say is make your own decision and, sure, you can listen to everyones advice but in the end make sure it is the decision that you choose and want to make. I'm sure that if you look deep inside yourself you already know what it is you want to do about this so go with that. Everyone's situation is different and no matter how similar other's situations have been they are NOT the same. It must be you that finally decides what to do and I wish you all the best in whatever you decide. I hope you have a happy and productive life mate.

Cheers

Jimmy

[El Taco Loco]

Screw the moral high ground. She LEFT YOU.... period. No thoughts about you and her son, only her little selfish self.

As one poster stated, you have to now think of YOU. You will always be a father. She needs a wimp for a husband. Are you one?

Good luck, mate! You are a nice chap. Life is too short. Enjoy it while you can.

[sbk]

Screw the moral high ground. She LEFT YOU.... period. No thoughts about you and her son, only her little selfish self.

As one poster stated, you have to now think of YOU. You will always be a father. She needs a wimp for a husband. Are you one?

Good luck, mate! You are a nice chap. Life is too short. Enjoy it while you can.

Thats right, her little selfish self and their unborn child.

Just so you know, this post screams selfishness. Any man who takes this position certainly has bigger problems than wimpishness.

[sbk]

Seems to me the OP has gotten his advice and has made up his mind.

I think for now it will be a case of me to you, you to me to maintain contact with my son, the baby is due in September and I will make sure I am in the UK for that at least

Unless the OP objects, I see no point in continuing this thread, as it has clearly become another platform for posters with issues.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

The whole thing with her dad actually makes me feel at bit ill. It sounds to me like he doesn't give a crap about his own child, as long as he is alright then screw her. Even as far as keeping her husband in thailand to work for him (therefore not affecting his life) instead of giving him a couple of weeks/months off to go home & try to sort things out. I dont' know any father who would put himself & his interests above that of his child, even if he did think she was in the wrong. Nasty & sad.

Wow boo,

I'm impressed! You've completely profiled a guy you know nothing about from a few lines in his son-in-laws post...amazing! I guess an upcoming job with the FBI isn't out of the question in their profiling section eh! As you don't know the person in question how can you go making rather nasty aspertions as to his quality as a father?

Cheers

Jimmy

[helicoptor]

Ok I will throw a few more facts in..

Our son is one year old next month

We were planning a second child anyway and my fiancee fell pregnant pretty much as soon as we got here, we were registed at BKK Pattaya hospital and the first scan confirmed the (approx) date.

I have been working solidly from day one since we got here, my fiancee had transport during the day, yet she felt isolated. I suggested social groups where other farang ladies get together but she was not interested.

I do not 'bar crawl' and have no interest in it whatsoever, the whole scene bores me and is best left to the tourists. we live in the suburbs of Pattaya and only ventured in to the city on a day weekend for shopping at Tesco, Big C etc

During our time here we spent ALL our time together, apart from two occasions; when I went out alone to meet up with other TVers for a unofficial recon pissup and another to watch the football at a local bar (on that occasion she called up a mutual farang friend who sent her husband round to the bar to make sure I was actually there.) This annoyed me as I felt she didn't trust me.

[bkkmadness]

Seems to me the OP has gotten his advice and has made up his mind.

I think for now it will be a case of me to you, you to me to maintain contact with my son, the baby is due in September and I will make sure I am in the UK for that at least

Unless the OP objects, I see no point in continuing this thread, as it has clearly become another platform for posters with issues.

I think the OP is still writing, and people have different opinions SBK, being a discussion board you should let them stand no matter if they stick in your throat.

He said 'at least' he will be their for the birth, meaning at 'most' he might move back tomorrow to be their for the whole thing so not sure Helicopter's statement can be read as he has made his decision. (Though my thoughts are he may well have done.).

[Barney_the_Dinosaur]

During our time here we spent ALL our time together, apart from two occasions; when I went out alone to meet up with other TVers for a unofficial recon pissup and another to watch the football at a local bar (on that occasion she called up a mutual farang friend who sent her husband round to the bar to make sure I was actually there.) This annoyed me as I felt she didn't trust me.

Chalk up another victim of the Thaivisa pizzup jinx.

[Boo]

Wow boo,

I'm impressed! You've completely profiled a guy you know nothing about from a few lines in his son-in-laws post...amazing! I guess an upcoming job with the FBI isn't out of the question in their profiling section eh! As you don't know the person in question how can you go making rather nasty aspertions as to his quality as a father?

Cheers

Jimmy

Thats right just as so many have profiled the op's wife from a few posts of his. Amazing isnt it.

[sbk]

Fair enough BkkMadness, then let me add this:

Before standing in judgement of the lady, read some information about the first trimester:

From the mayo clinic:

Pregnancy may leave you feeling delighted, anxious, exhilarated and exhausted — sometimes all at once. Even if you're thrilled about being pregnant, a new baby adds emotional stress to your life.

It's natural to worry about your baby's health, your adjustment to motherhood and the increased financial demands of raising a child. You may wonder how the baby will affect your relationship with your partner or what type of parents you'll be. If you work outside the home, you may worry about your productivity on the job and how to balance the competing demands of family and career.

You may also experience misgivings and bouts of weepiness or mood swings. To cope with these emotions, remind yourself that what you're feeling is normal. Take good care of yourself, and look to your partner and family for understanding and encouragement. If the mood changes become severe or intense, consult your health care provider for additional support.

Your relationship with your partner

Becoming a mother takes time away from other roles and relationships. You may lose some of your psychological identity as a partner and lover — but good communication can help you keep the intimacy alive.

* Be honest. Let your partner know that you need his presence, support and tenderness — sometimes without sexual overtones. Identify the stress points in your relationship before they become problematic.

* Be patient. Occasional misunderstandings and conflicts are inevitable. Consider both sides. If your partner dives into his work, for example, you may feel hurt and rejected because it appears as though he's withdrawing from your relationship. Your partner, on the other hand, may simply be trying to provide more security for your family.

* Be supportive. Encourage your partner to identify his doubts and worries and be honest about what he's feeling — both the good and the bad. Do the same yourself. Discussing your feelings honestly and openly will strengthen your relationship and help you begin preparing a home for your baby.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

Wow boo,

I'm impressed! You've completely profiled a guy you know nothing about from a few lines in his son-in-laws post...amazing! I guess an upcoming job with the FBI isn't out of the question in their profiling section eh! As you don't know the person in question how can you go making rather nasty aspertions as to his quality as a father?

Cheers

Jimmy

Thats right just as so many have profiled the op's wife from a few posts of his. Amazing isnt it.

Touche!!

Cheers

Jimmy

[bkkmadness]

Ok I will throw a few more facts in..

Our son is one year old next month

We were planning a second child anyway and my fiancee fell pregnant pretty much as soon as we got here, we were registed at BKK Pattaya hospital and the first scan confirmed the (approx) date.

I have been working solidly from day one since we got here, my fiancee had transport during the day, yet she felt isolated. I suggested social groups where other farang ladies get together but she was not interested.

I do not 'bar crawl' and have no interest in it whatsoever, the whole scene bores me and is best left to the tourists. we live in the suburbs of Pattaya and only ventured in to the city on a day weekend for shopping at Tesco, Big C etc

During our time here we spent ALL our time together, apart from two occasions; when I went out alone to meet up with other TVers for a unofficial recon pissup and another to watch the football at a local bar (on that occasion she called up a mutual farang friend who sent her husband round to the bar to make sure I was actually there.) This annoyed me as I felt she didn't trust me.

What a horrible woman mate, you've been working so hard everyday and you haven't been bar crawling, you are indeed a great husband and father. How can she be so ungrateful, sitting at home pregnant in the suburbs of Pattaya with no visits from family and firends to bother her idyllic peaceful life. And on top of all this, she didn't trust you! Well thats it then mate, let her stay in the UK, send a bit of cash over, fly over for 2 weeks when the second son appears so you can fully complete your fatherly responsibilties and then come back here and enjoy all Pattaya has to offer, and I must say you certainly deserve.

Come on Helicopter be honest, what are you going to do, the decision has been made hasn't it?

You agreed on both staying here for at least a year, well after the year will you be returning home? You'll have two kids there waiting for you won't you?

Are you willing to swap them two kids and your gf for a life in Thailand? If you stay here longer you might well lose your family and I wouldn't blame them for not taking you back, you seem to have shunned them pretty easily. Loving living in Thailand more than being a father to your kids, sorry something just a little shameful there.

I know I sound a bit out of order to say this but I think you're looking for the easy way out. In fact I think you have found the easy way out and are looking to alleviate your guilt over the decision you've made. Which to me because the kids are involved looks truely selfish.