Dream Shattered...

[John_Rambo]

The lady in question needes to stop thinking about herself and get herself back over to Thailand.

From what i am reading, the dream that is being shattered is not Helicopters desire to live in Thailand, but the dream of improving the future for himself and his family.

Okay, she is not settling well and this a hard time for her and she'd rather be with her family and friends, but sometimes sacrifices have to made with regards to our own immediate personal happiness, for the good of our situation further down the line.

There is no reason why she cannot raise her children for the next few years in Thailand, if she makes the effort to integrate better and build a network of friends here. Even if she never really likes the place, she can do it.

If she can gurantee Helicopter that she will walk into a job in a few years time that will enable them to get out of their dead end UK predicament, then fair enough she has more of a case for a return. If not, then she needs to stick this out.

Her actions do appear to be quite selfish in this regard.

[GuestHouse]

sometimes we need to dig deep and hang in there to really discover some special things in life.

I agree, and I think the OP needs to help his wife (mother of his children) to get digging.

Just an asside,

I notice that many here are defining the wife/mother's life as being good in material terms, or in terms they themselves value.

Perhaps we should remind ourselves that very very many TV members have moved to Thailand or plan to move to Thailand to obtain a life style that is not defined simply by material benefits or in the strict terms of what they see others wanting in life.

Surely then people here ought to be able to understand that the wife/mother needs no justification in being unhappy based on the terms we would set for her.

The issue I see is simple. The father and the mother need to work this out (in Thailand or elsewhere).

If they don't then it looks like we have another two single parent family kids on the way.

How does that make folk feel?

[GuestHouse]

helicopter, it sounds like you have already made up your mind about staying and working in Thailand, I'm starting to think you love Thailand more than your family (I hope I'm wrong, and just not reading your posts correctly), I understand you feel that Thailand is the opportunity you have been waiting for to better your families situation, but if you don't get this sorted you may well end up with no family, which kind of defeats the whole object does it not? Honestly, I feel right now you should be arranging a trip back home, only through supporting your wife in her time of need will you get the chance to encourage her back at a later date. Playing stubborn, now of all times is not a wise move (if you want to remain a family).

Great post!

[terry57]

we only have one life and must make ourselves happy before we can make other people happy.

I'm glad my parents never had this attitude. When you have kids you don't put your own happiness first, I think it's called 'being a man'.

yes i understand your point maddy and what you say is true regarding children.

this guy is inbetween a rock and a hard place because of the children.

be a real bummer if he gives his dream away and caves in to the womans demands and the relationship falls over because he's caved into her demands.

i just think it sucks that she did not stick to the original deal of the 12 months trial.

anyway,

you can work it out for him maddy.

[qwertz]

OK Let's ask another question. (In the interests of being fairminded).

Is the OP willing to go back to the UK to be with his family?

Not yet, but as previously posted we agreed Thailand was never going to be a permanent thing

I want to be with my family here and stick to the original plan and for my fiancee to adopt a more positive outlook about living here.

I go back now to nothing, starting all over again.

As i am typing I just received an text message: I quote

"Hi darling. hope you are ok. i miss you so much. hope we can work this thing out. so want you in our lives. want you to be here with us.

emotional blackmail, up to you, do you give in to it or not

BB

Helicoptor, if you want advice from the walking wounded, BB speaks for me as you do too in your predicament. The question is - how deep is your love? Because she's moved the goalpost once and set a precedent; go along to get along and you'll likely end up pussy whipped (apologies to any lady readers). It happened to me as it's happened to a lot of other OPs on this board. She'll mould you into exactly what she wants and more than likely find you a boring t##t in the end and that will be her excuse for seeking in other men what's now missing in you. And you can bet, if she's at all attractive, she's already considered that option just in case you don't knuckle under. The difference between a wrong relationship and prison is - in prison you get time off for good behaviour. Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear but this is going to be roughly your fate if you decide to perform to order. You're in a no win situation and you'll be hurt whichever way it goes; if you have a high pain threshold, go ahead and dance to her tune; if not, go for the time honoured magic healing potion my friend - LOS.

Edited March 20, 2007 by qwertz

[terry57]

The lady in question needes to stop thinking about herself and get herself back over to Thailand.

From what i am reading, the dream that is being shattered is not Helicopters desire to live in Thailand, but the dream of improving the future for himself and his family.

Okay, she is not settling well and this a hard time for her and she'd rather be with her family and friends, but sometimes sacrifices have to made with regards to our own immediate personal happiness, for the good of our situation further down the line.

There is no reason why she cannot raise her children for the next few years in Thailand, if she makes the effort to integrate better and build a network of friends here. Even if she never really likes the place, she can do it.

If she can gurantee Helicopter that she will walk into a job in a few years time that will enable them to get out of their dead end UK predicament, then fair enough she has more of a case for a return. If not, then she needs to stick this out.

Her actions do appear to be quite selfish in this regard.

agree 155% with rambo.

why should the copter be taking all this grief when the woman has shafted him by doing a runner.

if she respected him she would of considered his thoughts on this and keep the family together.

she has done the wrong thing by him and it dont look good for the future with a woman who operates like this.

its <deleted> to lay the hardword on him about losing his family as she has caused it.

[garro]

I think one thing you should consider helicopter is that you are likely to one day need to explain your decisions to your kids. If you stay here make sure you know exactly why you are doing it and try not to kid yourself. When you have children, you stop coming first. In my opinion.

[samran]

helicopter, it sounds like you have already made up your mind about staying and working in Thailand, I'm starting to think you love Thailand more than your family (I hope I'm wrong, and just not reading your posts correctly), I understand you feel that Thailand is the opportunity you have been waiting for to better your families situation, but if you don't get this sorted you may well end up with no family, which kind of defeats the whole object does it not? Honestly, I feel right now you should be arranging a trip back home, only through supporting your wife in her time of need will you get the chance to encourage her back at a later date. Playing stubborn, now of all times is not a wise move (if you want to remain a family).

Great post!

and, if you can convince her to give Thailand another go (assuming it is just Thailand she is a bit cold on), I'd highly recommend organisations like BAMBI and for her to get in touch with them.

Having moved out here with a pregnant wife (admittedly, we wanted to come here and have a baby, couldn't bear the thought of giving birth on the NHS ) you need to make sure she is comfortable with her hospital, her doctor, she is getting the foods she wants etc etc. She has got to feel OK that she is being supported at all stages.

I know there are benefits here that you simply won't get int he UK, such as maids, nannies and the like which make it alot easier to raise the kids. Make sure the quality of life for her is paramount.

It might be worth while seeing if the company can set you up in BKK so you can commute. There is a huge group of expat females all going through the baby thing.

[bkkmadness]

Not trying to work it all out for him Terence, but since the OPs post and situation does involve children it's best to give an opinion with that in mind. You might want to read though all the postings here before you continue.

Bit pointless to keep throwing blame around as well, the kids are going to be the major sufferers and here they come first.

[terry57]

OK Let's ask another question. (In the interests of being fairminded).

Is the OP willing to go back to the UK to be with his family?

Not yet, but as previously posted we agreed Thailand was never going to be a permanent thing

I want to be with my family here and stick to the original plan and for my fiancee to adopt a more positive outlook about living here.

I go back now to nothing, starting all over again.

As i am typing I just received an text message: I quote

"Hi darling. hope you are ok. i miss you so much. hope we can work this thing out. so want you in our lives. want you to be here with us.

emotional blackmail, up to you, do you give in to it or not

BB

Helicoptor, if you want advice from the walking wounded, BB speaks for me as you do too in your predicament. The question is - how deep is your love? Because she's moved the goalpost once and set a precedent; go along to get along and you'll likely end up pussy whipped (apologies to any lady readers). It happened to me as it's happened to a lot of other OPs on this board. She'll mould you into exactly what she wants and more than likely find you a boring t##t in the end and that will be her excuse for seeking in other men what's now missing in you. And you can bet, if she's at all attractive, she's already considered that option just in case you don't knuckle under. The difference between a wrong relationship and prison is - in prison you get time off for good behaviour. Sorry if it's not what you wanted to hear but this is going to be roughly your fate if you decide to perform to order. You're in a no win situation and you'll be hurt whichever way it goes; if you have a high pain threshold, go ahead and dance to her tune; if not, go for the time honoured magic healing potion my friend - LOS.

this is the exact situation MR copter.

if you suck up to this woman after she has shafted you like this and broke the agreement, you will forever be destined to be treated as pussy whipped weak male.

your respect will be destroyed as she will know she can get you to do anything.

having children is no excuse to let her rule you like this as at the end of the day she will leave you.

give her the altermatem to get her arse back to thailand or prepare to be a single mother.

you might find you could possibly find her back in los.

if not, well you will know where you stand regards your relationship.

life is a 2 way street and she needs to play the game.

[qwertz]

My advice changes not one iota. I've seen this scenario so many times in different milieus, it's casebook. IMO, the geography is merely incidental. This woman is determined to have her way and will use the child as a lever on him if her personal clout fails to do the trick. I don't even have to bet on the outcome, it's foregone.

[JacknDanny]

Helicopter,

First of all I feel for you as you have got an extrmely difficult decision to make.

I agree with bits of most peoples post.

Reading yours I get the feeling that you were having a sh#tty life in England with little or no prospects, and this opportunity presented itself whereby you felt you could improve yours and your familys lifestyle.

Your wife agreed and then went back on her word for reasons that are perhaps understandable.

I think you have decided that Thailand is the place that you will build your future and given the choice I believe that you would want your family with you.

What I would do is this.........

Fly back to UK straight away on a return ticket , returning after 3/4 days.

Sit down with the Mrs, tell her how much you love her/need her/ want her etc etc

Get a large A4 piece of paper, draw a line down the middle.

Discuss the reasons why you decided to go to Thailand to live and write down all the positive things, eg climate/lifestyle/money/better house/better location etc etc and suggest things that hopefully you Mrs agrees with. You should have on one side of the paper a sizeable list of 'positive' reasons to be in Thailand.

Then ask her to list the 'negative' things about the move and SHUT UP, let her talk. You will find out the REAL reasons as to why she did not settle.

Once you know the true reasons, then and only then will you have a chance of resolving the issue.

I suspect lack of trust to come near the top of the list. Her Dad is married to a Thai girl, you work with Dad, get on well with him. With her hormones up the wall I wouldnt mind betting that she thinks its only a matter of time before you stray.

You have to somehow convince her that the 'positives' you have written down far outweigh the negatives.

Good luck.

[GuestHouse]

My guess is the advice guys give has a lot to do with their experience:

We've guys here who are not married and have no children advising on the delicate workings of married/family life.

We've even a case of someone who admits to having [sic] run to Thailand to escape being 'pussy whipped' back home.

Then we have advice from people who are married with children.

There seems to be a clear distinction that the OP would be a fool to ignore.

[terry57]

Not trying to work it all out for him Terence, but since the OPs post and situation does involve children it's best to give an opinion with that in mind. You might want to read though all the postings here before you continue.

Bit pointless to keep throwing blame around as well, the kids are going to be the major sufferers and here they come first.

if they dont work it out the children are going to be minus a father but if the woman is not prepared to play the game the relationship is doomed anyway.

why should this guy bend over when his wife has decided to pull the pin when they had discussed all this before even coming over to los.?

she plays this game once, she will do it again.

people split up everyday and one cannot live ones life, living unhappy because of the children.

at the end of the day everybody gets destroyed so dont blackmail this guy because of his children.

[kankaroo]

If you want my 2pence on the matter (well you're getting it anyway)............What you have now is what some people only only DREAM of, including myself. About this time last year I had a job in Phuket for a computer company, house on the beach paid for by boss etc etc and I threw it away by making some wrong choices.

Now I am living in Scotland trying to find a cra# job to get by. Today I walked a mile in a snow storm to get to the job centre in a futile attempt to find a decent job. I would give my left arm to be in your position.

You have to ask yourself if you go back to the UK will you be happy? will you be able to forget what you had in Thailand and be able to say "well, at least I am here with my family and at least my wife is happy even though i'm not" ??????

In these situations I usually go with my heart - the inner voice is probably the best one to listen to. Not a guilt trip.

Many may not agree but you have to realize how good you really have it right now, and also the cold grim harsh reality of living on this stinking grey island..............

[buriramboy]

if she was worried about him straying, doesn't exactly make a lot of sense to run off and leave him here on his own does it???

BB

[qwertz]

Not trying to work it all out for him Terence, but since the OPs post and situation does involve children it's best to give an opinion with that in mind. You might want to read though all the postings here before you continue.

Bit pointless to keep throwing blame around as well, the kids are going to be the major sufferers and here they come first.

if they dont work it out the children are going to be minus a father but if the woman is not prepared to play the game the relationship is doomed anyway.

why should this guy bend over when his wife has decided to pull the pin when they had discussed all this before even coming over to los.?

she plays this game once, she will do it again.

people split up everyday and one cannot live ones life, living unhappy because of the children.

at the end of the day everybody gets destroyed so dont blackmail this guy because of his children.

Amen to that, T57. There remains only your single question. the answer: victim of love. Hope you haven't been there because I have. Heicoptor is running replay of my first "marriage".

[KhunMarco]

I have to bookmark this thread for those days I think about a wife and kids around the house... brrrr

vade retro satana

Thanks copter !

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

Helicopter,

First of all I feel for you as you have got an extrmely difficult decision to make.

I agree with bits of most peoples post.

Reading yours I get the feeling that you were having a sh#tty life in England with little or no prospects, and this opportunity presented itself whereby you felt you could improve yours and your familys lifestyle.

Your wife agreed and then went back on her word for reasons that are perhaps understandable.

I think you have decided that Thailand is the place that you will build your future and given the choice I believe that you would want your family with you.

What I would do is this.........

Fly back to UK straight away on a return ticket , returning after 3/4 days.

Sit down with the Mrs, tell her how much you love her/need her/ want her etc etc

Get a large A4 piece of paper, draw a line down the middle.

Discuss the reasons why you decided to go to Thailand to live and write down all the positive things, eg climate/lifestyle/money/better house/better location etc etc and suggest things that hopefully you Mrs agrees with. You should have on one side of the paper a sizeable list of 'positive' reasons to be in Thailand.

Then ask her to list the 'negative' things about the move and SHUT UP, let her talk. You will find out the REAL reasons as to why she did not settle.

Once you know the true reasons, then and only then will you have a chance of resolving the issue.

I suspect lack of trust to come near the top of the list. Her Dad is married to a Thai girl, you work with Dad, get on well with him. With her hormones up the wall I wouldnt mind betting that she thinks its only a matter of time before you stray.

You have to somehow convince her that the 'positives' you have written down far outweigh the negatives.

Good luck.

That is a really great piece of advice JacknDanny. Well posted mate and I agree wholeheartedly!

Cheers

Jimmy

Edited March 20, 2007 by Jimmy in Bangkok

[John_Rambo]

if they dont work it out the children are going to be minus a father but if the woman is not prepared to play the game the relationship is doomed anyway.

This is very true.

If the lady is so determined to put her own interests in front of both her children and her husband to be, then there doesn't appear to be much of a sustainable long term relationship there.

[terry57]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

when it falls over, the kids dont come into it because the relationship is unbearable.

if this woman is not prepared to put her half into this relationship, i say let her go and get someone who will.

man is not put on this earth to bend over backwards for a female, and it must be a 2 way partnership or one is better off single.

never let one's self be emotionally blackmailed.

this woman is blackmailing this dude.

[qwertz]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

when it falls over, the kids dont come into it because the relationship is unbearable.

if this woman is not prepared to put her half into this relationship, i say let her go and get someone who will.

man is not put on this earth to bend over backwards for a female, and it must be a 2 way partnership or one is better off single.

never let one's self be emotionally blackmailed.

this woman is blackmailing this dude.

Right on again, sir. There's an old German proverb: It's a sad house where the hen crows louder than the rooster.

[bkkmadness]

Not trying to work it all out for him Terence, but since the OPs post and situation does involve children it's best to give an opinion with that in mind. You might want to read though all the postings here before you continue.

Bit pointless to keep throwing blame around as well, the kids are going to be the major sufferers and here they come first.

if they dont work it out the children are going to be minus a father but if the woman is not prepared to play the game the relationship is doomed anyway.

why should this guy bend over when his wife has decided to pull the pin when they had discussed all this before even coming over to los.?

she plays this game once, she will do it again.

So what's more important the future of the kids and the family which could be a very happy one even they are not in Thailand, or the importance of winning this game?

Does she have a reason for playing the game this way, well to a certain degree she has because she has a little baby growing in her, add to that all the hormones and I think it's a bit foolish to worry about the gf getting one over on the man.

[bkkmadness]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

How many men have done something to make a wife happy and found out it made everybody else including themself happy too?

[qwertz]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

How many men have done something to make a wife happy and found out it made everybody else including themself happy too?

About the same number, I'd say. So he has a 50/50 chance at best of a happy ending? Not my kind of odds. Too risky after studying form.

[garro]

If you want my 2pence on the matter (well you're getting it anyway)............What you have now is what some people only only DREAM of, including myself. About this time last year I had a job in Phuket for a computer company, house on the beach paid for by boss etc etc and I threw it away by making some wrong choices.

Now I am living in Scotland trying to find a cra# job to get by. Today I walked a mile in a snow storm to get to the job centre in a futile attempt to find a decent job. I would give my left arm to be in your position.

You have to ask yourself if you go back to the UK will you be happy? will you be able to forget what you had in Thailand and be able to say "well, at least I am here with my family and at least my wife is happy even though i'm not" ??????

In these situations I usually go with my heart - the inner voice is probably the best one to listen to. Not a guilt trip.

Many may not agree but you have to realize how good you really have it right now, and also the cold grim harsh reality of living on this stinking grey island..............

Have you looked for a job with the Scottish Tourist Board?

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

how many guys have done things to make there wifes happy and at the end of the day have it all fall over because they are miserable?

when it falls over, the kids dont come into it because the relationship is unbearable.

if this woman is not prepared to put her half into this relationship, i say let her go and get someone who will.

man is not put on this earth to bend over backwards for a female, and it must be a 2 way partnership or one is better off single.

never let one's self be emotionally blackmailed.

this woman is blackmailing this dude.

Using this logic though terry57 it could be also said that women aren't put on this earth to bend over backwards for a male! I also agree with it must be a two way partnership but you can't just dump and run the first time an issue crops up in a relationship and before I get stomped on I am not necessarily talking about helicopters relationship here I am speaking about relationships in general. That is what relationships are all about....give and take from BOTH sides. To try to sort out a problem in any relationship doesn't make you pussy whipped at all. That's just BS! It means that the relationship and partner mean a great deal to you and you want to continue with living and loving that person for the rest of your life. Remember it was supposed to be for "better or for worse" something a lot of people seem to forget these days.

Cheers

Jimmy

[terry57]

Not trying to work it all out for him Terence, but since the OPs post and situation does involve children it's best to give an opinion with that in mind. You might want to read though all the postings here before you continue.

Bit pointless to keep throwing blame around as well, the kids are going to be the major sufferers and here they come first.

if they dont work it out the children are going to be minus a father but if the woman is not prepared to play the game the relationship is doomed anyway.

why should this guy bend over when his wife has decided to pull the pin when they had discussed all this before even coming over to los.?

she plays this game once, she will do it again.

So what's more important the future of the kids and the family which could be a very happy one even they are not in Thailand, or the importance of winning this game?

Does she have a reason for playing the game this way, well to a certain degree she has because she has a little baby growing in her, add to that all the hormones and I think it's a bit foolish to worry about the gf getting one over on the man.

put it this way maddy,

if she had any respect for the copter and the value of the family she would be toughing it out in los giving it a decent shot, instead of running back to the old blighty.

it is her doing to do a runner and to split up the family, so what are all you guys going on about.

the copter has done nothing wrong and now some guys are telling him to throw it all away and chase this woman, who has just shafted him.

its bollicks mate and shows her true nature.

my friends wife felt exactly the same way, but she did not split the family by doing a bolt as she had more respect for the family and her husband.

give the copter a break will you.

[lannarebirth]

Not trying to work it all out for him Terence, but since the OPs post and situation does involve children it's best to give an opinion with that in mind. You might want to read though all the postings here before you continue.

Bit pointless to keep throwing blame around as well, the kids are going to be the major sufferers and here they come first.

if they dont work it out the children are going to be minus a father but if the woman is not prepared to play the game the relationship is doomed anyway.

why should this guy bend over when his wife has decided to pull the pin when they had discussed all this before even coming over to los.?

she plays this game once, she will do it again.

So what's more important the future of the kids and the family which could be a very happy one even they are not in Thailand, or the importance of winning this game?

Does she have a reason for playing the game this way, well to a certain degree she has because she has a little baby growing in her, add to that all the hormones and I think it's a bit foolish to worry about the gf getting one over on the man.

Besides wreaking havoc over the lives of several people one ought to care about, what other nasty acts can be forgiven under the all encompassing heading of "hormones". What awful things should a man be forgiven for because he can't control his "hormones". It's patronising bullshit. I like the rest of what you have to say however.

[qwertz]

If you want my 2pence on the matter (well you're getting it anyway)............What you have now is what some people only only DREAM of, including myself. About this time last year I had a job in Phuket for a computer company, house on the beach paid for by boss etc etc and I threw it away by making some wrong choices.

Now I am living in Scotland trying to find a cra# job to get by. Today I walked a mile in a snow storm to get to the job centre in a futile attempt to find a decent job. I would give my left arm to be in your position.

You have to ask yourself if you go back to the UK will you be happy? will you be able to forget what you had in Thailand and be able to say "well, at least I am here with my family and at least my wife is happy even though i'm not" ??????

In these situations I usually go with my heart - the inner voice is probably the best one to listen to. Not a guilt trip.

Many may not agree but you have to realize how good you really have it right now, and also the cold grim harsh reality of living on this stinking grey island..............

Have you looked for a job with the Scottish Tourist Board?

Ahoy from Branknock! You spelt Bangkok wrong when you booked your air ticket. Let me introduce you to a nice young sheep or two.