5 minutes ago, JAG said:

The courts are after all the product of the establishment, and I suspect that the government realised that from the start.

You haven’t understood the rule of law: it doesn’t matter what background you’re from. The laws apply to everyone. Even for a product of the establishment such as Johnson.

 

5 minutes ago, JAG said:

Both results, obtained through the ballot box, have effectively been overturned by this establishment, and a general election, the proper constitutional means to arrive at a solution has been denied.

You haven’t understood the constitution. If you want to do Brexit, you need to have a parliamentary majority. If you don’t have that, it’s not overturning anything. In fact, you want parliamentary democracy and the rule of law to be overturned by a manipulated opinion poll. 

 

 

39 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

No end of entertainment. At least for non-Brits.

 

HM will be extremely unamused. The decree issued by her, on 'her' PM's advice, is declared illegal, nul & void. I doubt that she's encountered that at any previous time in her 67 years on The Throne!

wondering what would be the palace reaction to the vote... sure the Queen's advisers must be in hot waters BJ and his gang make them look like fools 

43 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

No end of entertainment. At least for non-Brits.

Three years of slapstick. After the dancing queen and all the nonsense from armchair economists and lawyers you thought it can’t get better. And then came the buffoon with his little Rumpelstiltskin.

 

The normal, common, decent thing would be to call a general election. BJ wanted to, an alliance of the opposition and his own party rebels won't allow it. Why not?

Because no-deal Brexit can be stopped before.

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2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You honestly dont think Johnson, Gove, Reese Mogg and Farage are not part of the establishment? 

 

The people of the UK voted to leave with a deal which included remaining in the single market because thats what leave promised us would happen.

 

Bercow has already announced his resignation. 

Johnson and his crew are certainly not part of the establishment which is determined to frustrate the referendum result.

The people of the UK voted to leave. Full stop. Remember the question that was asked :            " Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" No other promises or qualifying statements.

 

Bercow has already announced his resignation, yes he has, but it is not effective is it?

 

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This is terrible news. I suppose the verdict here essentially takes us back to 1997 when the then PM John Major prorogued parliament for 3 weeks to stop an inquiry into his govts corruption. So by the fruit of the poisoned tree principles anything that took place after this illegal act effectively didn't happen. All jails will be emptied(except for the few lifers convicted before 1997), all buildings made after 1997 will be tore down as planning has been deemed null and void. At least we can smoke inside pubs again, as from 20 minutes ago.

 The ramifications of this will be earth shattering. All to undo the democratic will and referendum result voted by 17.4 million people. Let the madness begin!

Hyperbole your thing today?!

5 minutes ago, JAG said:

Johnson and his crew are certainly not part of the establishment which is determined to frustrate the referendum result.

The people of the UK voted to leave. Full stop. Remember the question that was asked :            " Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" No other promises or qualifying statements.

 

Bercow has already announced his resignation, yes he has, but it is not effective is it?

 

Apparently not- They are part of the establishment which is determined to force Brexit through by fair means or foul.  Legality no issue.  As we saw today, these tactics will fail due to the rule of law.

Edited September 24, 20196 yr by Slip

 

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

The people of the UK voted to leave. Full stop. Remember the question that was asked :            " Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" No other promises or qualifying statements.

The people of the UK need to accept the rule of law and that it applies for everyone regardless you like the result or not.

 

It proved my consecutive saying that blondie is a liar and just learnt that he is an idiot as well. 

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This is terrible news. I suppose the verdict here essentially takes us back to 1997 when the then PM John Major prorogued parliament for 3 weeks to stop an inquiry into his govts corruption. So by the fruit of the poisoned tree principles anything that took place after this illegal act effectively didn't happen. All jails will be emptied(except for the few lifers convicted before 1997), all buildings made after 1997 will be tore down as planning has been deemed null and void. At least we can smoke inside pubs again, as from 20 minutes ago.

 The ramifications of this will be earth shattering. All to undo the democratic will and referendum result voted by 17.4 million people. Let the madness begin!

Your reasoning sounds like you are a Brexiter and you want no deal and a clean break...

Incredible decision. All the legal experts on Sky now are saying how shocked they are at the verdict. Of course while being cut off by the host and remainer politicians but that's par for the course.

 

The establishment needs to be very careful. If the courts are seen to be biased (which this judgement has proved to be the case) then things could get ugly.

17 minutes ago, JAG said:

Johnson and his crew are certainly not part of the establishment which is determined to frustrate the referendum result.

The people of the UK voted to leave. Full stop. Remember the question that was asked :            " Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?" No other promises or qualifying statements.

 

Bercow has already announced his resignation, yes he has, but it is not effective is it?

 

‘Johnson and his crew not part of the establishment’ - you might have swallowed that hogwash, but please don’t expect the rest of us to.

 

‘The people of the UK voted leave’ - Just over 17 million did and 17 million is way short of ‘the people of the Uk’.

 

Bercow’s resignation comes into effect at the end of this current session - I’m not sure if you have seen the news today, but this Parliamentary session isn’t yet over.

Edited September 24, 20196 yr by Chomper Higgot

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Incredible decision. All the legal experts on Sky now are saying how shocked they are at the verdict. Of course while being cut off by the host and remainer politicians but that's par for the course.

 

The establishment needs to be very careful. If the courts are seen to be biased (which this judgement has proved to be the case) then things could get ugly.

The establishment? Like Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson?

 

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

All the legal experts on Sky now are saying how shocked they are at the verdict.

The likes of Robin Tilbrook caliber who make desperate armchair lawyers in this forum believe the UK has actually left already? ???? 

 

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 If the courts are seen to be biased (which this judgement has proved to be the case) then things could get ugly.

The wet dreams of a Brexiteer. Will you throw barstools in Pattaya? 

I assume that either the Solicitor-General or the Attorney-General has to sign off on any royal decree before it goes to HM-in-council for approval?

 

Perhaps the tumbrils will be setting out for Tyburn in the next few days ...

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Incredible decision. All the legal experts on Sky now are saying how shocked they are at the verdict. Of course while being cut off by the host and remainer politicians but that's par for the course.

 

The establishment needs to be very careful. If the courts are seen to be biased (which this judgement has proved to be the case) then things could get ugly.

These legal experts seem not to be what they are being portrayed as.

35 minutes ago, JAG said:

Well I have to say that I am not particularly surprised. The "Remain Campaign" has from before the referendum, been very much the child of the establishment. The courts are after all the product of the establishment, and I suspect that the government realised that from the start.

 

Amidst the whole sea of opinions, campaigns, parliamentary and party machinations a couple of fixed points poke out of the foam.  One: the people of the United Kingdom voted to leave the European Union in the referendum. Two: the subsequent general election returned a parliament, of which the overwhelming majority of members, on both sides of the house, were elected on manifestoes which stated that the result of the referendum was to be honoured, and the UK was to leave the EU. Both results, obtained through the ballot box, have effectively been overturned by this establishment, and a general election, the proper constitutional means to arrive at a solution has been denied. It is tempting if perhaps melodramatic to suggest that the establishment has vigorously and contemptibly put two fingers up to the electorate.

 

Where do we go from here? I suspect that it will be some time before we have an election - the Labour Party, which has spent the last week in conference busily confirming its reputation as being unelectable will not want one until they are sure that they can win it - a long wait; and the Conservative rebels will not want one unless they can oust Johnson and his team and replace them with their own people, if they don't manage that then they know that come an election they will be toast! We are probably in for quite a long period of a stalled government, and yet more choleric grandstanding from Mr Speaker Bercow - he won't resign now!

Well put. Stuck like 2 dogs having sex. Can't go up, down or sideways. 

1 hour ago, evadgib said:

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Congratulations to the people of the U.K. for having a supreme court that hasn't become corrupted by partisan politics. A great day indeed!

In it's ten year existence it's done nothing but! 

Americans don't understand UK politics. Which part of 'majority vote' does JT not understand.

2 minutes ago, grollies said:

Americans don't understand UK politics. Which part of 'majority vote' does JT not understand.

Which part of 'law' don't you understand?

3 minutes ago, grollies said:

Americans don't understand UK politics. Which part of 'majority vote' does JT not understand.

“The ruling was a unanimous decision by the court’s 11 presiding judges.”

 

You don’t get more ‘majority vote’ than unanimous.

Regular posters/ readers of the forum will have seen me post this before.  Well, today it seems that the Supreme Court unanimously agrees:

 

Quote

There seems to be an increasing confusion over the concept of impartiality (often mistakenly referred to as being "unbiased").

 

The Speaker's role is to represent Parliament. He/she is only required to exercise impartiality over political party affiliations, not the business of Parliament. When the Government of whatever day puts itself in opposition to Parliament, they also put themselves in opposition to the Speaker of the House of Commons. It really is as simple as that.

 

It is very unfortunate that, once again, the Tory party has conflated its own tribal concerns with government business and constructed the narrative that "as the natural party of government" (self-awarded title) any opposition to party will is a national betrayal.

 

There are very good reasons why "Parliament" and "Government" are distinct and separate terms, because it is not the role of Parliament to merely rubber stamp the will of the governing party. Far from being a traitor or a betrayer, Bercow has clearly exemplified why this should be so.

 

 

1 hour ago, johng said:

Will this debacle ever end ? ????

Probably not in my lifetime.

 

I am 75 years old.

This ruling will surely send a nervous shiver down the spines of the hedge fund managers who bankrolled the Leave Campaign and have placed their investment bets against the UK.

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

The markets predict 75 baht-£1 next week

I wish.

42 minutes ago, Mavideol said:

wondering what would be the palace reaction to the vote... sure the Queen's advisers must be in hot waters BJ and his gang make them look like fools 

Er - would that not be Rees Mogg  as leader of the Privy council who asked the queen to do the dirty dead ? 

2 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

This is terrible news. I suppose the verdict here essentially takes us back to 1997 when the then PM John Major prorogued parliament for 3 weeks to stop an inquiry into his govts corruption. So by the fruit of the poisoned tree principles anything that took place after this illegal act effectively didn't happen. All jails will be emptied(except for the few lifers convicted before 1997), all buildings made after 1997 will be tore down as planning has been deemed null and void. At least we can smoke inside pubs again, as from 20 minutes ago.

 The ramifications of this will be earth shattering. All to undo the democratic will and referendum result voted by 17.4 million people. Let the madness begin!

Having read that garbage I reckon the madness has well and truly started! 

17 minutes ago, grollies said:

Americans don't understand UK politics. Which part of 'majority vote' does JT not understand.

Well, at the risk of being flippant, ( and perhaps not directed at Jinghing in particular but America in general, the bit where the party or candidate or proposal which/who wins the most votes also wins power or is enacted?

I think this is one of those moments when an instinctive urge comes over people to go a place of special significance; like at the announcement of the end of the war in Europe when people spontaneously gathered in NY’s Time Square and on London’s Mall.

 

Oh to be in a Wetherspoons this evening.

 

Preferably ‘The Moon Under Water’ in Boston.

49 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You honestly dont think Johnson, Gove, Reese Mogg and Farage are not part of the establishment? 

 

The people of the UK voted to leave with a deal which included remaining in the single market because thats what leave promised us would happen.

 

Bercow has already announced his resignation. 

 

Really?

 

On the ballot papers that I saw there was simply Leave and Remain.

 

quote "You honestly don't think Johnson, Gove, Reese Mogg and Farage are not part of the establishment?

 

The first 3 yes, but Farage, not really. If he was he would be an MP in the UK and not in the EU.

 

If the Leavers had been in charge of the Brexit negotiations there may or may not have been a different result.

 

Teresa May promised that the the UK would leave the EU and that a no deal was better than a bad deal. In fact she promised that would happen.

 

She was the one who lied from the day she took over.

 

She was a remainer and in overall charge of the Brexit negotiations and had almost the final word.

 

She brought back a BRINO deal that was defeated 3 times in parliament and they had the final say on it.