Alcohol 'is More Dangerous Than Ecstasy'

[JR Texas]

There is an interview with a former Crystal -Methadone addict on the BBC News 24 Hardtalk on Monday advertised for 22.30 Hong Kong and 21.30 Thailand, taking the time difference into account of 1 hour ( I Think )

It says that it has the capacity to destroy young lives within a few weeks.

The former addict and her father * will be talking about the The Deadly Narcotic which almost destroyed the family and also their shared journey to recovery.

* Carren and Ron Clem.

Please take a look if you have time and have the facilities if you wish to hear what an Ex addicted has to say.

I will make a point of watching it unless Gremlins get at the True signal once again to hopefully learn a bit of helpful advice for future references for others in a similar position.

marshbags

JR Texas: I think it is not necessary to insert the word "Thailand" into every thread in order for readers to know that this subject relates directly to Thailand.

This is about hypocrisy. It is about unbelievable stupidity with regard to our approach to legal and illegal drugs.......we are still embracing Nixon's War on Drugs, and that started a long time ago.

How many lives have been ruined in Thailand (and the rest of the world) because of the government's misguided approach to legal and illegal drug abuse? How many non-violent criminals have been thrown in jail only to come out as violent criminals? How much money is it costing Thailand?

Are you aware that the criminalization of illegal drugs is contributing to the spread of HIV/AIDS? So, you are sitting on a barstool in Pattaya, reading this and thinking that is has nothing to do with you. Then one of the "girls" approaches you. Is the infected? How did she get infected?

What percentage of those "girls" are infected with HIV/AIDS because of the criminalization of illegal drugs? How many were infected because one of their clients or boyfriends was thrown in jail because of smoking pot, where he became an IDU (injection drug user), then became infected with HIV in prison, then started spreading it among the general population as soon as he got out of prison.

This does affect YOU. Be careful and WEAR A CONDOM!

My point, and there is a point, is that if we stopped the hypocrisy and started treating legal and illegal drug abuse as a medical and/or psychological problem, we would all be better off. I think legal and illegal abuse would go down and the total cost to society of abusing legal and illegal drugs would go down.

Criminalizing stupid human behavior is not making the problem go away....it is making the problem worse.

If you read my post again you will note I am quoting showing times for " Hong Kong " for members like MeeMiaThai and adding the time difference for those of us in " Thailand "

It is, therefore in this instance, necessary to insert Both the countries in the context of my offering which incidently is providing awareness of the showing of a programme members may find informative.

Incidently the programme is showing now in " Thailand " ( 15.30 ) and i,m recording it for later on.

It wil be repeated at the times i mentioned should anyone wish to look at it then.

If the content is positive and sensible then surely that is the important issue, not a repeated word / country, especially as it is a world wide problem.

I cannot get my head around the constant and petty observations that Some members seem to get pleasure out of, by highlighting them, when it doesn,t have any baring on the quality / objective of the post ???

I also understand you getting stressed on such an important debate with certain things as we all can do

Stay cool J.R., because many of us are against drug abuse ect. and would love to find a non criminal solution, while punishing the distributors / providers, accordingly.

There are many including myself who abor the downside of drugs and we need to find the best way to control existing addicts, get them off the dependancy and rid society of this social cancer and all those who supply and distribute these evil substances.

As with alcoholics, the addicts need help to control their dependancy, followed by support to stay free from both.

Society should at least provide them with a chance in the first instance, ( If they Want it ) surely.

IMHO of course.

marshbags

JR Texas: The only way I know of to solve a problem is to first recognize it. But how can we recognize it when virtually everything we read, hear, or see is controlled by a ruling elite that has its own personal agenda......one that conflicts with 99% of humanity.

"How is it possible for this small clique to bend the will of the majority, who stand to lose and suffer by a state of war, to the service of their ambitions? An obvious answer to this question would seem to be that the minority, the ruling class at present, has the schools and press, usually the Church as well, under its thumb. This enables it to organize and sway the emotions of the masses, and makes its tool of them."

--Albert Einstein (in a letter to Freud)

A major problem is that corporations are making enormous sums of money off of selling legal drugs. No one is demanding a "War on Legal Drugs." But they are costing society far more in terms of dollars and deaths than illegal drugs.

There are solutions........the Netherlands implemented a solution many years ago and crime went way down.

It is critical that the hypocrisy be removed. "Just Say No" does not work when you are saying that with a cigarette in your mouth and a beer in your hand. Kids just look at you as if you are from another planet........."what a stupid adult."

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."

--Albert Einstein (my favorite quote by him)

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?ac...p;qpid=1219426#

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We do not need a war on legal or illegal drugs.........we need a war on human stupidity (OK...starting with me).

[OlRedEyes]

We do not need a war on legal or illegal drugs.........we need a war on human stupidity

Yea. And add gullibility to that. Thinking and research is hard work We trust our masters to do that for us.

[JR Texas]

We do not need a war on legal or illegal drugs.........we need a war on human stupidity

Yea. And add gullibility to that. Thinking and research is hard work We trust our masters to do that for us.

JR Texas: OlRedEyes........I think common sense goes a long way..........there are a lot of academics that talk out of the wrong opening........but trusting the masters to think for us is, as I think you will agree, not a good idea. Look where it has brought us?

What would happen if the next American president told the truth? Can you imagine the global repercussions? It would spawn a revolution like we have never seen before and the end result would be positive.

What would happen if the media told the truth? Same result.

Have you ever heard of something called learned helplessness? It is what happens to people when the bombarded by negative information........bombarded by problems with no solutions presented. It causes people to feel a sense of helplessness and hopelessness..........so they do not act to correct any problems.

In my view, that is what the mainstream mass media is doing to all of us, at least to those that are not aware of it.

The relationship between "problems" and "learned helplessness" is not paranoia........it is a fact based on solid research in the field of human psychology. Whether the ruling elite is using the mainstream mass media to keep the masses in a state of learned helplessness is debatable, but in my view it is clear that it is happening.

Are we really just stupid? I don't think so. I think we are simply not thinking for ourselves and letting to many others think for us. If we do not control our thoughts, some other person will control our thoughts. That is human nature.

[meadish_sweetball]

It would be great if we could get back on the topic of drugs, illegal and legal ones, as that is what this thread is about.

[JR Texas]

It would be great if we could get back on the topic of drugs, illegal and legal ones, as that is what this thread is about.

JR Texas: Thank you Meadish Sweetball........we are, actually, talking about it. The original post led to opinions about which is worse, legal or illegal drugs. That led to a discussion of why we have those opinions in the first place....culture, media, etc.

But, we are probably drifting. What is your opinion with regard to the original post.......get us back on track. How does this related to Thailand? Why should farangs living in Thailand care?

[glenbat]

Alcohol (and tobacco) probably the 2 largest strains on the NHS. both kills hundreds if not thousands every week, either directly or indirectly but as both are a taxable sin they'll remain legal.

Ecstacy may kill 20 a year in the UK (if that) but it sells newspapers. I've met loads of people off their heads on alcohol and I'm afraid 90% can be or are complete a***holes

The only ecstacy takers I've met want to hug you to death and tell you how much they really really love you

[JR Texas]

Alcohol (and tobacco) probably the 2 largest strains on the NHS. both kills hundreds if not thousands every week, either directly or indirectly but as both are a taxable sin they'll remain legal.

Ecstacy may kill 20 a year in the UK (if that) but it sells newspapers. I've met loads of people off their heads on alcohol and I'm afraid 90% can be or are complete a***holes

The only ecstacy takers I've met want to hug you to death and tell you how much they really really love you

JR Texas: Personally, I have seen too many people die of tobacco and it is not pleasant. Smokers should go visit cancer wards and have a look. Alcoholics.........terrible.

I think we have two choices (and so does Thailand...back on topic):

1) Make illegal drugs legal and start treating both illegal and legal drug addiction as a medical and psychological problem. Then people to do whatever they want to do with their bodies but interject when they attempt to hurt others. AND, tax the hel_l out of their stupid human behavior.

2) Make the drugs that are now "legal" (and I am primarily talking about alcohol and tobacco) illegal just like all of the other "illegal drugs."

I hope we never embrace the second option, but it would perhaps open the eyes of the multitude of legal drug addicts that think they are not doing "drugs" and that all of those horrible "illegal drug addicts" should be imprisoned for life.

I want to emphasize a point: We really need to stop using the phrase "drugs and alcohol" and "drugs and tobacco." It automatically places them into two separate categories, like up and down. It creates a belief that they are not the same, when they are.

"Its medication time.........medication time........its medication time........medication time."

--Nurse Ratchet from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"

[meemiathai]

Alcohol (and tobacco) probably the 2 largest strains on the NHS. both kills hundreds if not thousands every week, either directly or indirectly but as both are a taxable sin they'll remain legal.

Ecstacy may kill 20 a year in the UK (if that) but it sells newspapers. I've met loads of people off their heads on alcohol and I'm afraid 90% can be or are complete a***holes

The only ecstacy takers I've met want to hug you to death and tell you how much they really really love you

JR Texas: Personally, I have seen too many people die of tobacco and it is not pleasant. Smokers should go visit cancer wards and have a look. Alcoholics.........terrible.

I think we have two choices (and so does Thailand...back on topic):

1) Make illegal drugs legal and start treating both illegal and legal drug addiction as a medical and psychological problem. Then people to do whatever they want to do with their bodies but interject when they attempt to hurt others. AND, tax the hel_l out of their stupid human behavior.

2) Make the drugs that are now "legal" (and I am primarily talking about alcohol and tobacco) illegal just like all of the other "illegal drugs."

I hope we never embrace the second option, but it would perhaps open the eyes of the multitude of legal drug addicts that think they are not doing "drugs" and that all of those horrible "illegal drug addicts" should be imprisoned for life.

I want to emphasize a point: We really need to stop using the phrase "drugs and alcohol" and "drugs and tobacco." It automatically places them into two separate categories, like up and down. It creates a belief that they are not the same, when they are.

"Its medication time.........medication time........its medication time........medication time."

--Nurse Ratchet from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"

[jdinasia]

Alcohol (and tobacco) probably the 2 largest strains on the NHS. both kills hundreds if not thousands every week, either directly or indirectly but as both are a taxable sin they'll remain legal.

Ecstacy may kill 20 a year in the UK (if that) but it sells newspapers. I've met loads of people off their heads on alcohol and I'm afraid 90% can be or are complete a***holes

The only ecstacy takers I've met want to hug you to death and tell you how much they really really love you

JR Texas: Personally, I have seen too many people die of tobacco and it is not pleasant. Smokers should go visit cancer wards and have a look. Alcoholics.........terrible.

I think we have two choices (and so does Thailand...back on topic):

1) Make illegal drugs legal and start treating both illegal and legal drug addiction as a medical and psychological problem. Then people to do whatever they want to do with their bodies but interject when they attempt to hurt others. AND, tax the hel_l out of their stupid human behavior.

2) Make the drugs that are now "legal" (and I am primarily talking about alcohol and tobacco) illegal just like all of the other "illegal drugs."

I hope we never embrace the second option, but it would perhaps open the eyes of the multitude of legal drug addicts that think they are not doing "drugs" and that all of those horrible "illegal drug addicts" should be imprisoned for life.

I want to emphasize a point: We really need to stop using the phrase "drugs and alcohol" and "drugs and tobacco." It automatically places them into two separate categories, like up and down. It creates a belief that they are not the same, when they are.

"Its medication time.........medication time........its medication time........medication time."

--Nurse Ratchet from "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest"

baaaa but i am not a UK BOFFIN

[glenbat]

2) Make the drugs that are now "legal" (and I am primarily talking about alcohol and tobacco) illegal just like all of the other "illegal drugs."

A great idea JR but there is no way that these will be made illegal by a current Government, can you imagine how much they would loose out financially? We're probably talking billions every year.

[jdinasia]

2) Make the drugs that are now "legal" (and I am primarily talking about alcohol and tobacco) illegal just like all of the other "illegal drugs."

A great idea JR but there is no way that these will be made illegal by a current Government, can you imagine how much they would loose out financially? We're probably talking billions every year.

which 'current' govt?

[JR Texas]

2) Make the drugs that are now "legal" (and I am primarily talking about alcohol and tobacco) illegal just like all of the other "illegal drugs."

A great idea JR but there is no way that these will be made illegal by a current Government, can you imagine how much they would loose out financially? We're probably talking billions every year.

JR Texas: Good point Glenbat............it is all about money. The corporations, and all others that own stock in the legal drug corporate Mafia...ha ha ha....are making money. These companies are taxed.......taxes do go to governments........blah blah.

Still........it is almost beyond belief that a generation of people that grew up during the 60s and 70s is embracing a stupid, mindless, idiotic, and totally ineffective war on illegal drugs while embracing legal drugs that are KILLING THEM and costing them a fortune in medical bills (health care insurance premiums) and incarcerations costs (about 25K per year per prisoner last time I looked).

Reality check: We can stop this via political action......some of the more progressive countries have moved away (small steps) from the hypocrisy of it all and tried to treat the problem as a medical and psychological one. America needs to do that now..........that would perhaps influence Thailand to take a different approach..........and monkeys might fly out of my ass!

"Its medication time.......medication time..........its medication time......medication time." :D

[glenbat]

costing them a fortune in medical bills (health care insurance premiums)

Update.. Costing US a fortune in medical bills (in the UK we all pay into National Health Insurance each month wether we use the NHS or not).. I've paid tens of thousands of pounds in NHI in my ten years in employment and not once used the NHS (fortunate enough to work for a company that provides private health care) but I guess my contributions are helping keep those addicted to legal drugs alive for a few more years and fund the increasing amount of health tourists flooding our country for free treatment

Rant over lol