4 hours ago, Curt1591 said:

China also has the most coal burning plants and plans for many many more.

True.

They are building new High Efficiency Low Emissions (Supercritical and Ultra Supercritical boilers) coal fired power plants to replace the old polluting coal fired stations that they are taking out of service. They will improve the air quality immensely without destroying their economy, unlike the West who seem hell bent on sending us to starve in the dark whilst living in caves.

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

Dude you look scientific. Here:

 

WHAT WAS THE TEMPERATURE AT THE START OF THE INDUSTRIAL AGE? 

 

Why can no one ever answer that. And if you can, where does the data come from?

Give me a break. Who was collecting accurate temperature measurements of the oceans of the world at the start of the Industrial Age? That's why you can't get an answer.

Thermodynamics, goddammit. Heat cannot of itself pass from a colder to a hotter body.

Check out what's happening to the Larsen Ice Shelf and glaciers in Greenland and Iceland. There's your answer.

8 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Give me a break. Who was collecting accurate temperature measurements of the oceans of the world at the start of the Industrial Age? That's why you can't get an answer.

Thermodynamics, goddammit. Heat cannot of itself pass from a colder to a hotter body.

Check out what's happening to the Larsen Ice Shelf and glaciers in Greenland and Iceland. There's your answer.

meanwhile, ipcc set start date = 1979 to give the impression ice are on decline, and southern ice mass is on an increase for a status quo in total ice.

ipcc are cherry picking start dates

for various phenomena that best

gives the impression on increase/decrease

Edited October 5, 20196 yr by brokenbone

5 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

True.

They are building new High Efficiency Low Emissions (Supercritical and Ultra Supercritical boilers) coal fired power plants to replace the old polluting coal fired stations that they are taking out of service. They will improve the air quality immensely without destroying their economy, unlike the West who seem hell bent on sending us to starve in the dark whilst living in caves.

Unfortunately, that is a fraud. Unless one can sustainably capture the heat and carbon dioxide generated ( i.e. a perpetual motion machine ) the new plants will be just as bad as the old ones, although their generation of fly ash and sulphur oxides will probably be lower.

Based on more than 40 years in industry, I have yet to see a process that improved in efficiency during its life cycle. They always deteriorate.

 

5 minutes ago, brokenbone said:

meanwhile, ipcc set start date = 1979 to give the impression ice are on decline, and southern ice mass is on an increase for a status quo in total ice

Yeah right. Insurance companies, councils and military organisations are all scrambling to adjust their risk profiles for sea level rise. You can save them a lot of money by becoming a consultant.

51 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

No thats not necessary. Do you feel Im asking to much? Im not a scientist, just a not very bright dude who wants to understand.

Lol yes obviously not that bright if you want to kill off Great Whites they've been here longer than man a lot lot longer.

historical sea level rise

"Our planet needs action on a truly planetary scale. That cannot be achieved overnight, and it cannot happen without the full engagement of those contributing most to the crisis."

 

 

Therein lies the rub.   The countries that are making significant changes make no significant difference, other than to the falling bottom lines of their economies.

 

 

 

 

Instead of constantly harassing consumers, the nazi climate activists should rather concentrate on cargo ships who are the biggest polluters of the world. But of course, it is easier to rant at the general public, push governments to invent new "climate" taxes that paralyse individual wallets.

 

And for the reference and stat freaks, here is one amongst many many other articles that point out the damage caused by cargo ships (and maybe also the mega cruise ships).

 

https://inews.co.uk/news/long-reads/cargo-container-shipping-carbon-pollution-515489

 

8 hours ago, edwinchester said:

The science is undeniable but people choose, for whatever reason, to ignore it and the consequences.

Our kids will have a <deleted>ty life and our grandkids even <deleted>tier.

really?

 

well, let's talk a little bit more specifically on this, rather than just sharing our feelings about our children. 

 

as long as one person is emitting 285 grams per kilometer flown in a commercial jet..... just to visit Disneyworld the umpteenth time.... every other sector will CONTINIUE to balk at any added costs... and most people will continue to balk at any real sacrifice.  but actually, many of us still balk outright, or buy into some denial nonsense (such as Al Gore's 'it's only about some ice melting in 2100' narrative), because we have family, personal, social, business and professional "needs"... for air travel.  as the best example for an honest discussion on this.  not just emotions.  and as for it's effects, of that 285 grams per kilometer flown for each one average passenger.... our metric is 3 to 4 parts per MILLION... as it is that powerful.  it even accounts for WHY we left the trees 8 mya (Oliver Morton, Eating The Sun about page 285 in my paperback version).  

the first baby step always was (since Daniel Patrick Monihan advsied RMN).... is even more so every passing day.... air travel and tourism.  which already accounts for 2 percent of global emissions even though 6,400 million of us have never been in an airplane even once in their life yet and everything we do otherwise involves GHG emissions.  therefore "only" 2 percent is actually... the first baby step because it is not ever essential, as we can use drones for donated organs and emergency medical supplies.... and that there is no possible solution to aviation's huge 285 grams per pass./km. emissions and even if one to scale was discovered it would take decades to air safety test, public acceptance and rolling it out to replace the 200,000 airplanes we currently fly almost 24/7/365.

now does it make sense?  close all airports?  is that what you expect....??? as the first step????  and a "only 2 pct." baby step, at that?????

 

and then there is the aerosol effect that Rosenfeld et. al. in Science, January 2019 came up with the idea that we have UNDER estimated aerosols and PM which only persist in our atmosphere for a few weeks or months after emission.  and of course anyone who is at all famliar with the basics of this topic knows what the breakdown shows on the IPCC forcings chart,  BEFORE Rosenfeld et. al.  if we underestimated that..... helloooo????

as for those famous CORSIA offsets, beginning in 2027, that is not only fake, they are the only thing COP23 gave up on after the "Paris agreement" back in 2015.... in which shipping and aviation were exempted.... and Paris called for "carbon removals" which means we need to go BELOW 0 emissions.  as there is no negative emissions tech, to scale, even installed by now.  2019, almost 4 years later.  none at all.   

Edited October 5, 20196 yr by WeekendRaider

9 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Climate Change: An unstoppable movement takes hold

What a load of rot.        https://youtu.be/mqejXs7XgsU

There has been climate change all throughout the few billion year history of the Earth.  Why are people such whining about climate change now?  What has actually happened since people started screaming about this 30 years ago?  NOTHING!  If anyone took the time to research the remote sensing satellite data they would find that there has been not increase in overall global temperature in the past 25 years.  This is all just a ploy to get people to willingly pay more taxes directly to governments and indirectly to the banking cabal.

 

Edited October 5, 20196 yr by Ondral

39 minutes ago, WeekendRaider said:

really?

 

well, let's talk a little bit more specifically on this, rather than just sharing our feelings about our children. 

 

as long as one person is emitting 285 grams per kilometer flown in a commercial jet..... just to visit Disneyworld the umpteenth time.... every other sector will CONTINIUE to balk at any added costs... and most people will continue to balk at any real sacrifice.  but actually, many of us still balk outright, or buy into some denial nonsense (such as Al Gore's 'it's only about some ice melting in 2100' narrative), because we have family, personal, social, business and professional "needs"... for air travel.  as the best example for an honest discussion on this.  not just emotions.  and as for it's effects, of that 285 grams per kilometer flown for each one average passenger.... our metric is 3 to 4 parts per MILLION... as it is that powerful.  it even accounts for WHY we left the trees 8 mya (Oliver Morton, Eating The Sun about page 285 in my paperback version).  

the first baby step always was (since Daniel Patrick Monihan advsied RMN).... is even more so every passing day.... air travel and tourism.  which already accounts for 2 percent of global emissions even though 6,400 million of us have never been in an airplane even once in their life yet and everything we do otherwise involves GHG emissions.  therefore "only" 2 percent is actually... the first baby step because it is not ever essential, as we can use drones for donated organs and emergency medical supplies.... and that there is no possible solution to aviation's huge 285 grams per pass./km. emissions and even if one to scale was discovered it would take decades to air safety test, public acceptance and rolling it out to replace the 200,000 airplanes we currently fly almost 24/7/365.

now does it make sense?  close all airports?  is that what you expect....??? as the first step????  and a "only 2 pct." baby step, at that?????

 

and then there is the aerosol effect that Rosenfeld et. al. in Science, January 2019 came up with the idea that we have UNDER estimated aerosols and PM which only persist in our atmosphere for a few weeks or months after emission.  and of course anyone who is at all famliar with the basics of this topic knows what the breakdown shows on the IPCC forcings chart,  BEFORE Rosenfeld et. al.  if we underestimated that..... helloooo????

as for those famous CORSIA offsets, beginning in 2027, that is not only fake, they are the only thing COP23 gave up on after the "Paris agreement" back in 2015.... in which shipping and aviation were exempted.... and Paris called for "carbon removals" which means we need to go BELOW 0 emissions.  as there is no negative emissions tech, to scale, even installed by now.  2019, almost 4 years later.  none at all.   

Hey what was the temperature at the start of the Industrial Age? ????

 

6 minutes ago, Ondral said:

There has been climate change all throughout the few billion year history of the Earth.  Why are people such whining about climate change now?  What has actually happened since people started screaming about this 30 years ago?  NOTHING!

A few odd things, such as mass coral bleaching, sea level rise, melting ice caps. Scientists worldwide are concerned a black swan event is coming. You can go back to sleep.

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

Give me a break. Who was collecting accurate temperature measurements of the oceans of the world at the start of the Industrial Age? That's why you can't get an answer.

Thermodynamics, goddammit. Heat cannot of itself pass from a colder to a hotter body.

Check out what's happening to the Larsen Ice Shelf and glaciers in Greenland and Iceland. There's your answer.

You dont know?

 

Then how can you say the planet is getting warmer? or colder?

1 hour ago, nervona81732 said:

Climate Change in B S. Just another means to control humanity. Get a grip.

Someone is always trying. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, don't let them get away with BS.

11 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

You dont know?

 

Then how can you say the planet is getting warmer? or colder?

Pay attention please. We dig up fossil fuels and burn them. That produces heat and work. The heat passes into the environment. That's a process that has been accelerating ever since the steam engine was invented.

I really fear light is bending around you today.

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

Pay attention please. We dig up fossil fuels and burn them. That produces heat and work. The heat passes into the environment. That's a process that has been accelerating ever since the steam engine was invented.

I really fear light is bending around you today.

Ah...so its a....the-ory. Like circumstanial evidence or the lack thereof. Got ya. Great, Your So Professional Howie!

 

Hey, I just want you to know that my goal for tonight is to eat a platter of baked lamb chops and roasted tates, perhaps with a salat (perhaps Tomato and Onion with Dill) and a Turkish Coffee, then barfine some chick that was chopped up to look like a Barbie girl on Instagram. For no reason other than I should do this thing, its my solemn duty. But I will take public transport in the hope to reduce my footprint, and will decline a second helping of lamb. Im also inhaling longer so as to reduce the particulate haze that filters out of my bodybellows.

The Earth is currently in the early phase of recovering from the last glacial period. It had seen much hotter periods in the past, and it is bound to grow hotter again (for a while), emissions or not. Even shutting down all industry altogether won't stop this movement up the cyclical curve.

Still, cleaner environment is certainly a better environment to see the global warming in.

13 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Ah...so its a....the-ory. Like circumstanial evidence or the lack thereof. Got ya. Great, Your So Professional Howie!

 

Hey, I just want you to know that my goal for tonight is to eat a platter of baked lamb chops and roasted tates, perhaps with a salat (perhaps Tomato and Onion with Dill) and a Turkish Coffee, then barfine some chick that was chopped up to look like a Barbie girl on Instagram. For no reason other than I should do this thing, its my solemn duty. But I will take public transport in the hope to reduce my footprint, and will decline a second helping of lamb. Im also inhaling longer so as to reduce the particulate haze that filters out of my bodybellows.

My GF is cooking sai ua ( northern Thai spicy sausage ) and mashed potato for me as we speak, which I intend to consume with a cold beer. She may want to play with my sausage later.

You can test out my "theory" about heat flow quite easily. Just put your hand on a hot stove.

42 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Someone is always trying. Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty, don't let them get away with BS.

American, right? Will you guys ever run out of conspiracy theories?

7 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

You can test out my "theory" about heat flow quite easily. Just put your hand on a hot stove

No that would burn. Not like the ice in Alaska.

 

Some trees would be nice on the tundra and some grass. Sort of like when it was warmer 100,000 years ago when there were like apemen and tigers and suchlike.

 

Enjoy your sausage. Altho Sai Ua and Mashed is an odd combo, sort of Like Bratwurst and rice

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Give me a break. Who was collecting accurate temperature measurements of the oceans of the world at the start of the Industrial Age? That's why you can't get an answer.

Thermodynamics, goddammit. Heat cannot of itself pass from a colder to a hotter body.

Check out what's happening to the Larsen Ice Shelf and glaciers in Greenland and Iceland. There's your answer.

2nd posting.

12 minutes ago, overherebc said:

2nd posting.

Memes are nice but what about the temperature?

15 minutes ago, overherebc said:

2nd posting.

I guess this picture is supposed to mean something. Is it that we are still coming out of an ice age? If so, it looks like it is coming along nicely

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

A few odd things, such as mass coral bleaching, sea level rise, melting ice caps. Scientists worldwide are concerned a black swan event is coming. You can go back to sleep.

ammonites were doing just fine at many times higher

co2 levels then today, and obviously the coral reef

survived as well or it wouldnt be around.

geologic history has rarely seen so stable sea level as today,

melting in arctic is offset by ice build up in antarctic,

and as geologic history shows us,

every specie today survived when there was no ice at all.

the black swan is that there is a lower limit of co2

below which plants cant survive,

and plants thrive at much higher co2 levels then is today.

fun fact, note how co2 level lag behind 800 years of temperature changes, that is, first something changes temperature, and then after a few hundred years co2 follow suit as an effect, where the temperature is the cause

Edited October 5, 20196 yr by brokenbone

22 minutes ago, canuckamuck said:

I guess this picture is supposed to mean something. Is it that we are still coming out of an ice age? If so, it looks like it is coming along nicely

I don't know where it is, but in the Alps we have a similar pattern of melting glaciers.

Not nice at all, as glaciers dripping in the summer give water to the rivers, and rivers without water could mean entire fertile regions going dry.

That doesn't mean that we can reverse the process, even if tomorrow we shut down the whole economy system.

For those interested in 'understanding climate facts, stripped of propoganda and emotion ' (review comment)

 

'Mirrors and Mazes', a guide through tha climate change debate.

Howard Thomas Brady.

 

Available on Kindle for about $7.00

I found it clear and concise and most refreshing.

Just one teaser ... ask why was Hannibal able to cross the Alps with his elephants.

40 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Memes are nice but what about the temperature?

Well, if it was getting colder if wouldn't have gone backwards,

????

And yes, maybe we are still coming out of the last ice age.

As I've posted before I'm still not on board with the greenhouse gas thing and prefer to use climate change rather than man made global warming. Too many variables in that one and too many opinions.

 

3 minutes ago, overherebc said:

And yes, maybe we are still coming out of the last ice age

Well I sure hope for civilizations sake that things end up more like Thailand than Iceland.