At What Age Would You Take Your Kids Out To Bars?

[chanchao]

Spent a couple days around a popular beach resort not too far from Bangkok, and especially during the day or early evening I noticed that quite a few people brought their 3-4-5-6 etc year old kid with them when going out for a drink. The kids mostly seemed to enjoy themselves a lot, getting a lot of attention and all and lots of staff to play with. Sometimes the bar owner or a staff member would also have a kid there, providing more entertainment.

I think I would personally have some concerns to do this, concerns mostly relating to not wanting my kids in the same physical location where there's men & alcohol, even when not late at night. But for the people who do this, at what age did you feel kids were old enough, and was there an age where you felt it less appropriate for your son (or daughter, especially) to be in that environment. Or perhaps did your son/daughter himself/herself express to want to join or not want to join you, and at what age and for what reasons?

Lots of questions, I know. My wife is actually very much opposed to the idea, and it's not a big enough deal to be worth sneaking around on. But then, spending quality time with your kids IS important as a parent, mine starts crying her eyes out when I as much as point at my shoes to go out the door.

[leisurely]

Personally I think that if the place is smoky it could harm their lungs. Even though I do smoke. Outdoor bars are fine and they are normally a good(ish) place for the whole family to go. As long as you are not plying your child with chang (or nasty fizzy pop ) for that matter, I don't see that there is any problem.

[PhilHarries]

I have no children in LoS but I have two sons by previous marriage in the UK so can postulate on what I would and would not do based on what we (me and the wife) did then.

I would not ever take children or young adults for that matter to beer bars in Pattaya or anywhere else save maybe during the daytime and that's a big maybe.

I would take them to enclosed bars like Jamesons during the afternoon or early evening but only when they are old enough to realise that it isn't a playground and are happy to sit and read or play reasonably quietly. I would mainly take them when we are having a meal and limit the time spent in the bar to the time it takes to eat plus say one drink after.

I do not agree with children being in bars after say 7pm. It's not fair on the kids nor does it give them the lifestyle input they need at a young age. It is also not fair on the other adult customers who want to go out for a drink and relax. I know I get irritated by screaming kids running around a bar when I want to relax so wouldn't impose mine on other people. I don't blame the kids, they just want to be kids, it's the thoughtless selfish parents I take issue with.

Making the time limit early evening also ensures the bar should be fairly quiet so cigarette smoke exposure is less of an issue.

[GuestHouse]

Quite simple. I would never take a child in a bar, certainly not a Thai bar.

We've can think of a lot better things for our children to spend their time doing than sitting around drink and prostitutes.

[Jared]

Firstly not every bar has prositutes, I took my son into a bar/pub today. Hes 5 months, also took him there when he was 2 months. Ill have a beer and he'll have his milk or a nap whilst his mum is out shopping. Aslong as its not smokey or too noisey I dont think there is anything wrong with it. As a child I was in a pub with my dad once or twice a week from a very early age.

[GuestHouse]

Firstly not every bar has prositutes, I took my son into a bar/pub today. Hes 5 months, also took him there when he was 2 months. Ill have a beer and he'll have his milk or a nap whilst his mum is out shopping. Aslong as its not smokey or too noisey I dont think there is anything wrong with it. As a child I was in a pub with my dad once or twice a week from a very early age.

1. What bar was that that does not have prostitutes?

2. I think you've supplied the evidence that taking children into bars from an early age does infact adversely effect their judgement with respect to bars.

[Jared]

1. I could name you several bars in my local area that do not have prostitutes working there. If every bar youve been to, you have been greeted by a prostitute then you probably havent travelled much further than Pattaya.

2. Dont be a <deleted>

[GuestHouse]

1. I could name you several bars in my local area that do not have prostitutes working there. If every bar youve been to, you have been greeted by a prostitute then you probably havent travelled much further than Pattaya.

Would it not have been easier to name the bars, rather than make erroneous assumptions about how much of Thailand outside of Pattaya I have experienced.

2. Dont be a <deleted>

More of that early exposure to bar language?

Edited March 26, 2007 by GuestHouse

[bkkmadness]

Guesthouse, not all bars in Thailand have prostitutes.

And to answer the OP, when they are old enough to buy me a drink!

[Jared]

Mama Mia is there really a need for this debate as 99% of other people in this forum will tell you not every bar/pub in Thailand has prostitutes working in them. Closest Bar to me in Korat is the Sport and Cocktail Bar, Run by an English gentlemen and his wife, not a prostitute in sight.

I don’t know maybe you don’t have Pubs in Italy. In England it’s where we like to socialise with friends and family. I’ve taken my grandmother to the pub on many occasions and for your information I probably heard worse language in the school playground as a kid than I ever did sitting in the pub with my dad.

[chanchao]

Well, I think it's fine for Guesthouse to want to define people primarily by their line of work. While people may work as prostitutes, perhaps that their also 'mothers' of young children is a more defining and relevant aspect to the way they relate to kids. Honestly the 'drink' (and perhaps 'smoke') part would worry me a lot more.

Of course if the kid is older then there'd have to be no inappropriate language around the kid, or else I'd have a stern word with them.

Edited March 26, 2007 by chanchao

[gummy]

Guesthouse, not all bars in Thailand have prostitutes.

And to answer the OP, when they are old enough to buy me a drink!

No No you missed the point, Guesthouse obviously only frequented bars with prostitutes during the 12 years he was here in Thailand so hence he can only generalise that they must all have them. Again perception and reality are quite differant.

Frankly now it is my kids that take me out so perhaps the question should be asked "when should kids stop taking their parents out to bars" ?

[jdinasia]

Quite simple. I would never take a child in a bar, certainly not a Thai bar.

We've can think of a lot better things for our children to spend their time doing than sitting around drink and prostitutes.

lol

often an intelligent poster .... but not THIS time

[chanchao]

Yah. Guesthouse never misses even the slightest opportunity to berate the horrors of prostitutes. It's interesting that he was the first to mention the word in this discussion. (Now wait for him generalizing everyone going to a bar in Thailand as 'johns'.. )

But anyway, on the issue of language, did anyone ever get that the kid picked up a word or two that would raise eyebrows with Mum? (Not necessarily bad words, but just a word that seems to point at being picked up in a bar, for example because it's a normal (polite) Issan/Lao language word which the kid otherwise wouldn't have picked up.

And are your kids in general able to keep a secret? Or will Mum hear exactly how many beers dad had and who he smiled at?

Edited March 26, 2007 by chanchao

[ZZZ]

As far as I know bars serving alcohol must have an age limit of 20 years, so thats how old your kids have to be, legally

[PhilHarries]

As far as I know bars serving alcohol must have an age limit of 20 years, so thats how old your kids have to be, legally

That's the age for drinking alchohol, I'm not aware of any age restriction for being in a drinking establishment but I'm open to correction.

GH, I agree with you up to a point in that Thailand's bars until recently have pandered primarily to the sexpat tourist. But now with chains of pubs like Jamesons things have changed and the atmosphere is more akin to an Irish/English pub. I'm not saying the girls that work in these places aren't "available" what I'm saying is they are not the lurid dress "hello sexy man" screeching sirens of many of the beer bar scene haunts.

I've never been propositioned in Jamesons but that might just be a reflection of me.

[chanchao]

> That's the age for drinking alchohol, I'm not aware of any age restriction

> for being in a drinking establishment but I'm open to correction.

It depends. For actual large entertainment spots like discos and big clubs, they would actively check ID. But keep in mind most drinking spots in Thailand are very informal, no matter if they're open beer bars in Pattaya or Grandma's grocery store & karaoke around the corner. Those are so much 'family affairs' that there'd always be kids around, usually related to the owner or staff, or just kids from up the street, etc.

[ Also I think a quick 30 minute survey of the tourist bar scene in places like Bangkok, Pattaya and Chiang Mai will show you that as long as it isn't the ruling elite's own kids around bars, they honestly don't care about kids from (poorer) staff and especially not kids selling gum or flowers from the hills or neighbouring countries. And indeed foreigner's kids would be well out of that scope of interest as well. ]

[bkkmadness]

GH, I agree with you up to a point in that Thailand's bars until recently have pandered primarily to the sexpat tourist.

And there are also lots of bars that have nothing to do with tourists.

[GuestHouse]

Well, I think it's fine for Guesthouse to want to define people primarily by their line of work. While people may work as prostitutes, perhaps that their also 'mothers' of young children is a more defining and relevant aspect to the way they relate to kids. Honestly the 'drink' (and perhaps 'smoke') part would worry me a lot more.

Absoluetely Chanchao, I have no problem identifying prostitutes as the kind of people I don't want my children to be hanging around with. And I don't give a toss if they are really nice people with families of their own. You can do your Julia Roberts Tart with a heart bit with your kids if you like, we all have our own standards. Mine and my wife's say that our children can have happy childhoods without going in bars (In Thailand, prostitution is one issue - though you would like to deny it, the other every where is alcohol and bar culture - Not the environment we want our children in). Our choice - Period. Your choice period.

I don’t know maybe you don’t have Pubs in Italy. In England it’s where we like to socialise with friends and family. I’ve taken my grandmother to the pub on many occasions and for your information I probably heard worse language in the school playground as a kid than I ever did sitting in the pub with my dad.

No there are no 'pubs' in the English sense in Italy, and children are not allowed in bars. I know about the culture in some sections of English society to socialize with children at the pub, I have also experiences English nightlife... The English relationship with alcohol seems not to be a healthy one.

Gummy, what are you drivelling on about?

[November Rain]

OK, I'm waiting for the gasps of horror, but my son is 5 & I've taken him to bars since he was 3. His father was a musician who played in a rock band in a bar & I'd take him to see his Dad play. Now, his father's dead we (very occasionally) still go to see his dad's friends play. My son is a total rock music addict. His favourite songs are "We will rock you" and "Smoke on the water". I very rarely go out anymore (as can be seen by my post times on here), but if I do, I usually take him. To me, it's a connection to his father & if others think I'm wrong, I guess that's up to them.

[gummy]

Well, I think it's fine for Guesthouse to want to define people primarily by their line of work. While people may work as prostitutes, perhaps that their also 'mothers' of young children is a more defining and relevant aspect to the way they relate to kids. Honestly the 'drink' (and perhaps 'smoke') part would worry me a lot more.

Absoluetely Chanchao, I have no problem identifying prostitutes as the kind of people I don't want my children to be hanging around with. And I don't give a toss if they are really nice people with families of their own. You can do your Julia Roberts Tart with a heart bit with your kids if you like, we all have our own standards. Mine and my wife's say that our children can have happy childhoods without going in bars (In Thailand, prostitution is one issue - though you would like to deny it, the other every where is alcohol and bar culture - Not the environment we want our children in). Our choice - Period. Your choice period.

I don't know maybe you don't have Pubs in Italy. In England it's where we like to socialise with friends and family. I've taken my grandmother to the pub on many occasions and for your information I probably heard worse language in the school playground as a kid than I ever did sitting in the pub with my dad.

No there are no 'pubs' in the English sense in Italy, and children are not allowed in bars. I know about the culture in some sections of English society to socialize with children at the pub, I have also experiences English nightlife... The English relationship with alcohol seems not to be a healthy one.

Gummy, what are you drivelling on about?

Clearly the cap fits you very well. And by the way why do you have a hang-up about prostitutes? You typify a person who has previously got a bad deal from one in one of those so many Pattaya bars you frequented ? When it comes to drivel you are head and shoulders above the rest of TV combined. The topic was "what age would you take your kids out to bars". Simple to answer for most but you had to launch into your normal puritanical crusade about prostitutes again.

And by the way, binge drinking in the UK, not just England, is on the increase. They appear not to have this problem in France and Spain where young children were mostly welcomed with their parents. According to the UK governement due to the higher earning power of teenagers as never before. This problem is greater amongst females. Well whether that is true or not had it been on the increase due to those teenagers having been taken to bars at an early age I am sure the "do-gooder nation", which the UK has now become, would have repealed the laws on allowing minors into public bars where food is served - don't you ? or perhaps your ego is such that you will now proclaim to be a better authority on this issue than the UK authorities.

[gummy]

OK, I'm waiting for the gasps of horror, but my son is 5 & I've taken him to bars since he was 3. His father was a musician who played in a rock band in a bar & I'd take him to see his Dad play. Now, his father's dead we (very occasionally) still go to see his dad's friends play. My son is a total rock music addict. His favourite songs are "We will rock you" and "Smoke on the water". I very rarely go out anymore (as can be seen by my post times on here), but if I do, I usually take him. To me, it's a connection to his father & if others think I'm wrong, I guess that's up to them.

Well I for one won't gasp in horror, I think you are absolutely adopting the right approach. It is done for all the best reasons and I expect your son will thank you in the future for doing just that.

[britmaveric]

Uh a bar isnt a place for a little one. I'd keep them away until they are old enough to start the vice themselves.

[GuestHouse]

Clearly the cap fits you very well. And by the way why do you have a hang-up about prostitutes?

I don't have a hang-up about prostitutes - Keeping to the topic under discussion, I don't want my children in bars where there are prostitutes (Almost every bar in Thailand) - That I remind you is only one of the issues, the other issues is the alcohol/bar culture - Not one that my wife and I want OUR children to be around. Did you get that or do I have to repeat it?

You typify a person who has previously got a bad deal from one in one of those so many Pattaya bars you frequented ? A pure fabrication of your own mind.

When it comes to drivel you are head and shoulders above the rest of TV combined. The topic was "what age would you take your kids out to bars". Simple to answer for most but you had to launch into your normal puritanical crusade about prostitutes again.

Yeh right (because you say so LOL). Listen again, I have said I don't want my children in bars and I have given the reasons why, they include both not wanting them around Prostitutes and not wanting them around the alcohol bar culture (When is that going to sink in?!) - More interesting, if you want to start a thread of your own is why you feel the need to defend prostitutes, I'm not attacking them, I'm just saying I don't want my kids near them.

And by the way, binge drinking in the UK, not just England, is on the increase. They appear not to have this problem in France and Spain where young children were mostly welcomed with their parents.

I travel on business to both France and Spain quite regularly, to say that binge drinking in France and Spain is anywhere near what it is in England is a Joke.

According to the UK governement due to the higher earning power of teenagers as never before. This problem is greater amongst females. Well whether that is true or not had it been on the increase due to those teenagers having been taken to bars at an early age I am sure the "do-gooder nation", which the UK has now become, would have repealed the laws on allowing minors into public bars where food is served - don't you ? or perhaps your ego is such that you will now proclaim to be a better authority on this issue than the UK authorities.

Right - Let me remind you. Prior to the deregulation of the alcohol industry and the relaxing of licensing laws, there was wide spread condemnation of the changes by the medical profession and all the charities who work with alcohol problem. Groups like the Quakers, the Salvation Army, AAA all warned that deregulation was going to lead to increased alcohol abuse. The governments response was that quoting from past experience was not a valid argument because society has changed.

Well Gummy, as it turns out who was right?

So now the goverment are arguing that the reason why people drink more is because they have more money.

Let's put asside the findings of the Government committee on alcohol that demonstrated the drink industry where targetting children and producing products and advertising with a demonstrated bias towards children.

The thinking of the government is clear, alcohol = Taxes, the think of the alcohol industry is clear also Children = Future customers. The thinking of parents is a bit fuzzy.

But to answer your question, I don't give a toss if you or anyone else wants to take their childred to the bar, if guys need a beer so much they can't wait to get a sitter, then fine, if people center their lives around the bar then fine. It is not my business.

But it is MY BUSINESS what my wife and I do with OUR children

Oh and Gummy, remind me, how old are your children?

From memory I recal they are above the age when they need to do anyting. If so, why did you come here, and how does what I said impact you? ...

Oh I think I got it!

Edited March 28, 2007 by GuestHouse

[thaihome]

Uh a bar isnt a place for a little one. I'd keep them away until they are old enough to start the vice themselves.

The problem with blanket statements like that is you need to say what your definition of a bar is.

Is it a Thai place where there are tables and groups of people sit and eat and drink starting at 7:00 PM or so for hours on end listening to live music that gets louder as the evening goes on?

Is it a disco/dance place in a hotel or stand alone that doesn't even get going till 10:00PM or later with deafening music?

Is it an outdoor beer bar that opens late afternoon?

Is it an English/Irish pub sort of place where food is served, sometimes has live music, usually not real loud, and opens in early afternoon?

Is it a go-go bar?

Some of the above places may be ok for kids at certain times of the day, others never are.

TH

Edited March 28, 2007 by thaihome

[gummy]

Clearly the cap fits you very well. And by the way why do you have a hang-up about prostitutes?

I don't have a hang-up about prostitutes - Keeping to the topic under discussion, I don't want my children in bars where there are prostitutes (Almost every bar in Thailand) - That I remind you is only one of the issues, the other issues is the alcohol/bar culture - Not one that my wife and I want OUR children to be around. Did you get that or do I have to repeat it?

You typify a person who has previously got a bad deal from one in one of those so many Pattaya bars you frequented ? A pure fabrication of your own mind.

When it comes to drivel you are head and shoulders above the rest of TV combined. The topic was "what age would you take your kids out to bars". Simple to answer for most but you had to launch into your normal puritanical crusade about prostitutes again.

Yeh right (because you say so LOL). Listen again, I have said I don't want my children in bars and I have given the reasons why, they include both not wanting them around Prostitutes and not wanting them around the alcohol bar culture (When is that going to sink in?!) - More interesting, if you want to start a thread of your own is why you feel the need to defend prostitutes, I'm not attacking them, I'm just saying I don't want my kids near them.

And by the way, binge drinking in the UK, not just England, is on the increase. They appear not to have this problem in France and Spain where young children were mostly welcomed with their parents.

I travel on business to both France and Spain quite regularly, to say that binge drinking in France and Spain is anywhere near what it is in England is a Joke.

According to the UK governement due to the higher earning power of teenagers as never before. This problem is greater amongst females. Well whether that is true or not had it been on the increase due to those teenagers having been taken to bars at an early age I am sure the "do-gooder nation", which the UK has now become, would have repealed the laws on allowing minors into public bars where food is served - don't you ? or perhaps your ego is such that you will now proclaim to be a better authority on this issue than the UK authorities.

Right - Let me remind you. Prior to the deregulation of the alcohol industry and the relaxing of licensing laws, there was wide spread condemnation of the changes by the medical profession and all the charities who work with alcohol problem. Groups like the Quakers, the Salvation Army, AAA all warned that deregulation was going to lead to increased alcohol abuse. The governments response was that quoting from past experience was not a valid argument because society has changed.

Well Gummy, as it turns out who was right?

So now the goverment are arguing that the reason why people drink more is because they have more money.

Let's put asside the findings of the Government committee on alcohol that demonstrated the drink industry where targetting children and producing products and advertising with a demonstrated bias towards children.

But to answer your question, I don't give a toss if you or anyone else wants to take their childred to the bar, if guys need a beer so much they can't wait to get a sitter, then fine, if people center their lives around the bar then fine. It is not my business.

But it is MY BUSINESS what my wife and I do with OUR children

Oh and Gummy, remind me, how old are your children?

From memory I recal they are above the age when they need to do anything. If so how does what I said impact you? ...

Oh I think I got it!

My my Guesthouse, showing your background now arn't we and to think you accused another poster of using "bar room language" yet to say "I don't give a T**s" is as bad, very common. The question was at what age would you take children into a bar - understand that WHAT AGE !!! it could be any age over zero if the parent is still alive !! That too difficult to answer with launching into your normal tirades ??

So what is your answer then ? When they are 16, 18 21 , 30 or 40 or some other figure?

[Minburi]

I my self would never take my 2 daughters anywhere near a bar or pub.(just me)

[GuestHouse]

Gummy, now that your kids have flown the nest, can I suggest you get a hobby, take up jigsaw puzzles or something and stop concerning yourself with the way I raise my children.

Alternatively move on to a thread that is about some aspect of family life that actually concerns you...

[PhilHarries]

Apologies for being a bit off topic but the assertion that the binge drinking culture is entirely due to the deregulation, relaxation of opening hours, of the licensing business is not the whole picture. Many city centre pubs recognised before deregulation the spending power of the mid twenties age group and tailored their establishments to that demographic grouping. Included in this "rebranding" was a spread of incentives to drink more than was/is sensible including happy hour deals that, for some, were too good to miss. Many of these promotions centered around cocktails, spirits and liquers, you don't get many binge drinkers on brown and mild.

The end result is that many city center pubs in the UK would not suit the 30+ age group but this topic is posted in a forum about Thailand therefore let's concentrate on bars and pubs in Thailand. Of course it's a purely personal choice, and each of us are different in that respect, but I would have no hesitation in taking a child of say six and above into the Irish style pubs around Thailand. As long as it's not more than say once a week and not all night long I don't see a problem. IMO the child is going to come up against the bar/pub culture anyhow so a bit of preparation can be a good thing. I think of it as lifestyle education, it's up to the parent to point out the goods and bads at least then when you child passes that magical age when they go it alone you know you've done your bit.

But that's my opinion and I'm not saying the opposire view is wrong.

[gummy]

Gummy, now that your kids have flown the nest, can I suggest you get a hobby, take up jigsaw puzzles or something and stop concerning yourself with the way I raise my children.

Alternatively move on to a thread that is about some aspect of family life that actually concerns you...

So again another pathetic an irrelvant response and if you really think I care anything about the way you raise your children then your ego must be at warp factor 5 as I may or may not feel sorry for them based on your TV response history but that of course is only my opinion.

Kids are always kids irrespective of their ages. As my wife has still not yet reached the menopause than there is still a possibilty of us having more. So again revert to the topic and answer in a straight forward manner if you can comprehend fully what that means - What age would you take your kids into a bar - would it be 16, 18, 21 or what ? Obviously if you are a Quaker then the answer is never but that is to do with religous beliefs which is commendable not the fact that the bars you frequented in Pattaya all apparently had prostitutes. To give you a further hint to enable you to answer this simplistic question then you could qualify it by stating that at no age would you take a child into a bar in Thailand but in say USA I may consider taking them at 21.

OK follow the logic? To give you further guidance on a response an example would be that for me I would take my children or grand children (if my own children approved), at any age , into any restaurant or bar that was non smoking albeit there are country exceptions but there again I would not wish for my children or grand children to be in some of those countries I have been in until such times it is safe to do so let alone a bar or similar. You see for me safety of my children and grand children is more important than my own predudices upon the clientele frequenting those said bars. Never judge people unless you wish to be judged yourself.

Edited March 28, 2007 by gummy