Pros And Cons Of Living In A City Or A Rural Area.

[Martin]

By chance, I got a mid-way lifestyle. We live on the edge of an Amphur, but have KK and Udon both within an hours drive. And we have 'Ban Nork' (little rural villages) all around.

I wouldn't be as happy in a city, nor 'out in the sticks' in a small village way off the highway----but that's just me.

I am putting up this topic so farangs who are happy in the city, or happy in 'Ban Nork', can say what their advantages are (and what they have to put up with).

It may help some future farang residents, who haven't yet arrived in Thailand for their retirement, to decide what to suss out in the run up to choosing their own Shangri La.

[tutsiwarrior]

a lot of us falangs don't got a choice where we end up living in Thailand. It's usually got to be somewhere close to the wife's family in order to keep her happy. You end up having to play the hand yer dealt...

[KevinN]

You got that right,,family close by is always a requirement.

[ASIC]

I have always lived in the outskirts of Bangkok, but am now thinking of moving up country. It's getting too commercialized here, traffic is bad again, the service at BTS has reached an all time low, and there are generally too many shopping centres.

Anyone, what's life like in Ban-Nork compared to Bangkok?

Also, is it possible to find an educated work-force? I am running a business and unfortunately, most of my Bangkok staff (engineers) are not willing to make the move.

ASIC

[Bluecat]

Anyone, what's life like in Ban-Nork compared to Bangkok?

I do not think there is any comparison possible.

And it is not at all a critic for any of them.

In terms of business, you answered your question already,...

[Johpa]

I am putting up this topic so farangs who are happy in the city, or happy in 'Ban Nork', can say what their advantages are (and what they have to put up with).

It may help some future farang residents, who haven't yet arrived in Thailand for their retirement, to decide what to suss out in the run up to choosing their own Shangri La.

We have a home in a baan nork and I lived there, and lived in other remote villages for many years before returning to the US for my kid’s education. There are certainly advantages to living in baan nork but it is not for everyone, and in fact, few ex-pats do well in true baan nork settings.

First, you had better speak decent Thai and be able to at least understand, if not speak, the local language or dialect because you don't often hear Central Thai in many parts of the country. In rural villages you don't hear these combinations of Central Thai and local languages like you hear in larger towns like Chiang Mai. Bangkok people need a translator when talking to many of our neighbors.

Then you need a spouse with an established extended family in the village, preferably a respected family. That does not need to mean wealthy, but simply that they are respected as a hard working honest family that is active in community affairs. Marrying into the local alcoholic family will only cause one grief in the long run because everyone will consider you a fool from the get go and try to take advantage of you.

Rural Thai villages do have their personalities and reputations. Some are noted for their "tham bun" while others are noted for their "nak leng" while others are noted for their gambling or the whoring of their men. So caveat emptor! Make efforts to get to know the current headman “phoo luang” and the more recently retired leaders as well as the current “kamnaan.” You will need to trust these people.

When living in "baan nork" you will need to step up to the plate (sorry about the Yank metaphor here) when called upon to contribute to local needs and it doesn't hurt to have a yearly party where all neighbors are invited for drinks, food and entertainment. (At my wedding, with only four intrepid ex-pats in attendance, we ran through 300 bottles of cheap Thai whiskey) The return is that the neighbors will be motivated to keep you happy and to help protect your family and homestead. Be warned, there is plenty of theft and petty, and not so petty, crimes in the rural areas and few, if any, police presence. On a related issue, emergency health care may be up to 30 minutes away after transportation is found.

One should not live in "baan nork" if electrical outages bother you. Losing contact with EGAT for a few days is not unheard of. This doesn't bother me so much as when I first got married and moved into the village there was no electricity available.

And of course, as an ex-pat living in a rural village you will inevitably get village fever when you just have to get out and see some new faces and speak your native language. So you had better have an affordable option to get out once in awhile. It is a rather unsettling feeling when you notice that all white people look alike and only Asians appear as individuals.

If you can't go potty both ways in comfort, then don't even bother to live in the rural areas. If you can't read the Sunday paper whilst squatting and if the idea of washing your bum with your left hand instead of wiping with your right hand is unimaginable, then stay in town where high rise commodes are now the norm.

The advantages, for me, certainly outweigh the disadvantages. I wake up every morning to the sound of animals and children and have a wonderful view and I get to breathe clean air all day long. I can walk around and be invited to countless homes of friends to share a cup of tea or a glass of Mae Khong. And once you get to know the rural folks the cast of characters is always entertaining, as each village is a little Peyton Place filled with gossip and intrigue.

And the cost of living is very, very low. Other than gas, food, drink, and a small electric bill, there are really no costs. And much of the food is certainly fresher than what one can purchase in the towns. Of course you need to appreciate dishes like "keeng ka'rook" for breakfast to enjoy all such advantages.

Judging from how few other ex-pats I meet living in true rural settings I would advise great caution. But I would not trade our rural home for a home in the city.

[RamdomChances]

We have a home in a baan nork and I lived there, and lived in other remote villages for many years before returning to the US for my kid’s education. There are certainly advantages to living in baan nork but it is not for everyone, and in fact, few ex-pats do well in true baan nork settings.

Really well said, I live in a very rural comunite in Nakhorn Sawan, my nearesat falang is about 50 km away, you have to try to fit in speaking thai is a must (i'm lucky here evert one speaks central thai), but agree with about every thing you say, its great if you can do it, I love it, but I would never recomend it ot someome(they have to do it for themselfs) cos its not for every one. My nearest supermarket is 60km, but then again i can be in BKK in 2hr and patteya in 3 (ok for weekend).

[Martin]

Tutsiwarrior and KevinN are absolutely right. Thai wives are much closer to their extended-family members than you find in Western cultures. And 'twill always be so, since the basis of social security here is the family, and there's really nothing else.

But I know some farang husbands and their Thai wives have regretted living too close (i.e close by in the same small rural village).

Thai extended families are big and may well contain a minority of spongers/thickies as well as the majority of good characters. So a little distance can be a good thing.

We are on the edge of an Amphur, and five miles from my wife's birth village, where there are about ten 'elements' of her family, and about seven miles from the two villages that a sister and brother now live in.

It works well as we can easily get to family 'occasions', and also family members call in to have a chat (or bring the village gossip) when they come to the Amphur offices, or to the Post Office or the Bank.

And we are glad to be 5 miles from two 'elements', who are quite bad news.

Johpa---I really enjoyed your post and found myself nodding my head all the way through.

One thing I notice in the villages around us is that farang husbands tend to have a Western-style house built, presumably with at least one Western toilet.

We get all the advantages that you list. In fact, come to think of it, a pretty accurate description of our Amphur would be "Three side-by-side little Peyton Places, plus Post Office and Police Station"!

Asic---I can't envisage you moving your company into 'Ban Nork' successfully. But an Amphur on either Highway 1 or Highway 2 could be a possibility. There is such an Amphur just down Highway 2 from us which has two modern small factories. One makes solar panels and the other makes high-quality mattresses for export to Western countries. It is so good that their employees can go home on their little motorbikes to their homes in their 'moo baans', rather than having to migrate to the Greater Bangkok area to find equivalent jobs.

There are plenty of good, but inexperienced, youngsters available. They are the graduates from the 'local' (i.e. regional) Colleges and Universities, who would rather get a job locally than have to migrate south. There used to be a rather grim observation that "Udon's biggest export is young teachers", but that should now be expanded to add in "Khon Kaen" and "engineers and doctors".

If you could invest a bit of time in getting them to come to you, there may well be plenty of experienced, educated people from any locality working in Greater Bangkok who would love to move back to where their roots are. If you let it be known in your intended location that you would be recruiting, it would be a real gossip topic and lots of parents would pass the message on, in the hope that their child would get a job with you and then they'd have the grandchildren nearby.

It is noticeable that Songkran etc produces an enormous exodus from Bangkok of people going to great effort to get back to their villages, even though it is only possible for them to have just a few days. But also every weekend there is quite a traffic up on Friday evening and Saturday morning and back late on Sunday. I have lived in rural areas of England and Wales where there is nothing like the same attachment amongst those who have gone off to the where the graduate jobs were. But firms in places like Newtown (Montgomeryshire) and Kendal (Cumbria) still recruit graduate staff with no problems. There are always some who feel that having a reasonable job in a nice, though remote, place beats having a better job in a city. And teachers get the additional benefits of better-behaved kids (because Sir knows My Dad) and national pay-level with lower cost of living. I think you could well be pleasantly surprised at the quality of staff you could get for a firm in 'small town Thailand', and with less staff turnover in later years.

[tatom]

Im in a small village and love it. You know everybody and your neighbors are like family. Cheap to live (nothing to buy). Its very laid back and very little stress! But, I think you are either country or city and I dont think you can make the transition from one to the other. I could never live in a city, but then I come from rural New England so I think its in the blood. I would imagine a city dweller would find it difficult living out here. Days and weeks at a time without hearing anything but Thai. A farang comes to visit maybe once every month or two. Rice, rice, and more rice! Feel like a pizza? FORGET IT! Tonite its, tum bukhun(som tum) and sticky rice, AGAIN!

[Padkapow Guy]

I have only live in Thailand for 6 months at a time and in a Hotel so I have no imput other than to say this is a really interesting thread. It's a point of view that most people do not get to see.

No fresh pizza! ahhhh

[tutsiwarrior]

I can get a hot dog with mustard (American) and onions at the 7-11 in our town. Don't see no other falangs although I'm told that there are some lurking about working at the private catholic college nearby.

But who cares...the kids think I'm great and I get respect from the others and the neighbors...

(went to get some baby shampoo from the corner shop and the chinese girl said 'Mr Tutsi, do you have a baby?'. I said 'nah but we got the wife's brother's 2 year old staying with us...'. She gushed...)

what more could one ask for?

[Martin]

tatom says that maybe it is in the blood. It got me thinking that maybe I like the Amphur because my blood is that of a 'townie'. Yes, both my mother's and my father's extended families were town dwellers; and I don't know of any antecedents who were city dwellers. When I look back at all the places that I chosen to live in, for one year or more, the score is England and Wales 'ban nork' 4, England and Wales and Thailand towns 10, Canada cities 2. Looks like my subconscious has been recognising that I am a 'townie'.

I think also, that my decisions owe something to the fact that my formative years were spent in towns (though for many years I lived in an England town but travelled into the nearby city to school).

(Pedagogues will recognise Nature or Nurture? rearing its head again. As I become a senior Experienced Youth, I notice more and more instances of Nature & Nurture combining to direct our lives.)

Dammit, I am going 'off topic'; when I put this topic up (because we went 'off topic' in the Instantaneous Water Heaters topic) I thought this topic was so broad that we couldn't go off it. Woe is me.

[Goat Roper]

You got that right,,family close by is always a requirement.

and not always a bad situation either, living near wifes family.

[KevinN]

I believe a lot that I have read and also think that some is a lot of horseshit,, I never have a drunk party and have never had one.

A lot of people like me and I would imagine some do not,Some think that because I help when I can is a good thing and that not getting a bunch of people drunk and contributing to their bad habits is fine, We do have a farang not to far away that has a party when he comes and another when he leaves,very few have much good to say about him,except the flaming alkies, And a lot of folks say he is a fool and is a big drug importer and exporter.

My father in law is a past head man, and a member of the council,,the present head man is a friend and will do what he is able for me.

I have people that come and have a cup of coffee and talk to me,and my Thai is very limited, but that don't seem to be a problem.

I think that if you are going to live out away from the farangs,just be yourself and behave your self and everything should be OK, but to become involved with the drinking and partying and you will be asking for trouble,as far as I can see,all it takes for a Thai to become an alkie is one drink,and a drunk has some weird thoughts and I would not want that.

altho since my bro in law is running a distillery next door,there are plenty of drunks real close.

[sendbaht]

"all it takes for a Thai to become an alkie is one drink,and a drunk has some weird thoughts"

It took me two drinks to become a alkie, one reason I do not drink. Only thing I can relate alcohol to "for me"

is trouble. Some can drink and some shouldn't... better for all for me to be on the shouldn't side.

I want to move close to my wife's folks and she does not. She loves her family and really they are pretty cool

to be around but she has no desire to live any closer the 100k, or a 1/2 days drive away. I have a great wife and

a wonderful in-laws but hay, we will live no closer then her desired distance.

I am new to the board..I still have 4 years to go before I get to join most of you luck outs.

[john b good]

I have a bit of a dollar each way so to speak.....

We have an apartment in town and it's only 20 minutes to where her folks live

outside the city.

I really envy the people who have set up house in a village whilst not being quite so far away as to be on another planet.

My wife has quite a large family of which the three brothers one could say are in varying degrees of being alcoholics. Two are actually pretty well out of it at any given moment in time.

Sisters and there is a bunch of them vary between the ones who love and respect me to others who are a bit ambivilent. (I've gone through all the bits such as being separated and reconciled, etc)

There are a bunch of aunts and uncles in close proximity and they all seem happy when we meet (happy to see me)

Of course anyone and almost everyone has dined on my dollar either at home or at one of the nearby restaurants.

Bottom line though is that one (I) can never be sure exactly what these people are really thinking i.e. is it my dollars, my persona, or is it me.

I don't think anyone can really say for sure as one never quite knows what is going on behind the smile.

One thing I can categorically say though as when I have been in the village and "it's been good" I have never been happier in my life "period"

[Yohan]

I think, it depends on your situation, in my case our family does not have any personal relationship to Thailand, except some friends....

For us Thailand is a good vacation place and a place to consider to stay for a long time for retirement.

Important for us is a place, which is not too far from airport, with some good supermarket and shoppingmall not too far, somewhat not too far from a beach, not too dark during night and some people there for a nice evening, good medical treatment available, also offices like immigration, embassy not too far. Housing should be a condominium, with a swimming pool, with an administration taking care of it, as we are not there for the whole year....easy to rent a car and drive around yourself...

The best, which is really fitting to all of that is Pattaya-Jomtien, this is the reason we bought the condominium there.

All of us were always living in big cities, and really we do not like the idea to be somewhere far away in a village, many kilometers out of town.

There are not so many places in Thailand, which fit such requirements... Of course, your needs are totally different, if you have Thai family - in such cases you will not decide alone, but you will depend somehow on the Thai family, some of them are from rural areas and do not like a big city, other Thais however are living directly in Bangkok and do not like to spend more than 2 or 3 nights outside in a house with nothing around except paddy fields.

Up to you, in Thailand you find quite everything, I would say....

Johann

[john b good]

There is just one thing that I would like to add.....

If anyone has resided / visited this country, and has not spent at least some time in a village it is MYHO that they have never been in "Thailand"

[Martin]

Yes, John. We should be promoting 'the real Thailand'.

Nearly ten years ago, when I had met my wife-to-be in Singapore and came to see her home area, I realised that I had never before known of the real Thailand. All I had experienced was central Bangkok, and resorts. But I now saw that they were merely boils on an otherwise quite healthy body.

It is a shame that Thailand is thought of abroad as only Central Bangok and resorts. Even worse, those who haven't visited Thailand at all think it is only Pat Porn and Patong.

Having to earn some money, I ended up doing a few years of Supply Teaching(3months on/3 months off) in some of the worst English secondary schools.

One day, in a Science lesson, it happened to come out that my wife is Thai, and one lad muttered "All Thai women are prostitutes".

It was a good chance to get some learning to happen. (It was impossible to get them to learn anything that they thought 'They' wanted 'Us' to learn, but they could be quite interested in irrelevancies to keep you off the official lesson). I happened to know at that time the estimated number of prostitutes and the population of Thailand. We worked out that it could be said that, roughly, 5% of Thai women would at some period of their lives 'sell body'. And that that meant that 19 out of 20 wouldn't. One girl marched into the next Maths class and challenged the Head of Maths with "Sir, do you know there are XX thousand prostitutes in Thailand? And I'll bet you think that is terrible. But it isn't. It proves 19 out of 20 Thai women aren't, never have been, and never will be prostitutes.!". The Head of Maths was amazed. They sullenly refused to learn any Maths from him, but the Science Supply was doing brilliantly. It became a game. They would ask me something about Thailand to divert me from boring old Science. And I managed to get them to actually learn something. OK, it was mostly Geography (and one Geography teacher was embarrassed that they knew whether Thailand was east or west of Taiwan, and she didn't and had to be shown on a globe), and Religous Knowledge, and History, but hardly any Science. Great fun.

So, to try to actually show 'the real Thailand' to anybody interested, we built the bungalow and set up www.thaihomestay.co.uk I thought it might make a self-financing hobby---optimist!

I wish somebody would come up with an effective way of getting the image of Thailand straightened out in the West. Maybe a film of one of our village footballing lads making it from the shool playground to the FA Cup Final is needed. Unfortunately, 'The Beach' has already done its harm.

[Johpa]

There is just one thing that I would like to add.....

If anyone has resided / visited this country, and has not spent at least some time in a village it is MYHO that they have never been in "Thailand"

Now that is being a bit extreme. Although I prefer living in rural areas, I accept that most Thais, like most ex-pats, would prefer to live in more "developed" towns.

I use to teach English at a college in Chiang Mai. One Monday I walked into class almost bent over at a right angle as a result of having spent the pervious day helping with the planting of rice. My students were literally in disbelief and many did not accept my explanation of my pains until I provided pictures as proof the next week. I asked my students, numbering over 100, how many had ever planted rice with family or neighbors. Out of over 100 students only a single student from Nan Province had any such experience.

Many Thais have no real experience in traditional village living. In fact, I notice that when driving through rural villages Thais tend to speed up while passing through. Initially I thought this rather odd behavior of speeding up when passing through areas where there were dwellings was an attempt to show disdain or exhibit power due to some insecurity that needed to outwardly exhibit superiority, a common Thai psychological need. But I later began to suspect that the reason Thais increase speed in rural villages is because it causes the awareness in Thais that "there for the grace of God go I."

As for the poster making reference to encouraging alcoholism I would like to note that in our cluster of villages there are few alcoholics. When we host our annual party there is plenty of food and drink but it is most definitely a family affair. Even in Thailand people like the occasional excuse to get together and have a good time and get a bit loose. Of the people who tend to get the loosest I think it is the group of older “aunties” who seem to be giggling the loudest. The real binges occur when my father-in-law gets together with old buddies who have not seen each other in years and they try to drink like the old days. I admit it is pretty pathetic to walk into a hut filled with a group of men all over 70 years of age who have passed out on the floor. But they get what they deserve after making the rest of us having to listen to their singing of ancient monotone folk songs that nobody understands.

[Johpa]

We worked out that it could be said that, roughly, 5% of Thai women would at some period of their lives 'sell body'.

Unfortunately, an ILO study published in the early 1980s (?) found that the percentage of Thai women between the ages of 15 and 55 who had worked in the sex industry at one time or another was closer to 30%. With the large increase in the Thai middle class since then I would now estimate the number to be closer to 20%. The difference has been made up with imported women from Burma and elsewhere.

[Yohan]

So, to try to actually show 'the real Thailand' to anybody interested, we built the bungalow and set up    www.thaihomestay.co.uk       I thought it might make a self-financing hobby---optimist!

I checked out your link, and found it rather incomplete, openly said.

I am missing good pictures about the accomodation and the available food and transfer- should be really de-luxe category and not village-like.....

I hope you do NOT refer with your pricing as *the real Thailand*

Baht 2000 - 3000 per person/night in Isaan as a self-financing hobby?

I paid in Udorn Thani last year in a 5-star hotel baht 1200,- for 2 persons. This was including a wonderful breakfast buffet....(Ban Chiang Hotel)

No wonder, that most foreigners prefer resorts and hotels, and are not interested to stay overnight in a village....

This is the most expensive place in Isaan I ever heard about.

Johann

[Martin]

You are quite right , Johann. I agree with what you say, entirely!!.

At this very moment I am under pressure to get in the car and drive to a very important ceremony/get-together for some of our neighbours. So I will have to delay explaining how the apparently 'most expensive' is actually the best 'value-for-money' to a (small minority of) some people.

But I promise that I will make time to do that later today (D.V.).

[Pink Mist]

Unfortunately we only get to stay in LOS part time at the moment, the big picture for us is to renovate the House we have in Banpaed, about 12k from KhonKaen. Once everything's completely finishished, the big move will happen.

While we are there though I love the villiage life, to me it's great situation, we have the convenience of KK being close but still live in a rural setting.

Having a comprehension of Thai is an advantage, but I found complete immersion also speeds up the process of understanding, and that extends to all things Thai IMHO

[RamdomChances]

I'm living about 65 km outside Nakon Sawan, I think there is no right or wrong , good or bad place to stay, it purely depends on what you expectations are, probably if you've lived in a city all your life you go crazy in a rural enviroment and vise versa.

I'd love to know how they conducted the study with women in the sex industry, cos 30 or even 20% seem really high, if the pop of thai is 60 mill thats about 30 mill women thats somewhere like 6 to 9 mill, and how did they know did they ask lots of women "have you ever been in the sex trade?" cos if thats the case that fig would be really low cos they are'nt going to say "yes of course I have!!".

Anyway here's a bit of a list of things i think are good and bad.

Good

1. The People

2. The Family

3. The Uniqueness

4. The cost

5. Not being treated like a falang

6. The ability to have a normal relationship, without the pressures of living in one of the more touristy areas (possably should of been No 1)

7. Being able to raise children in a normal loving enviroment

8. The weather/air

9. The Isolation

Bad

1. The Isolation (yea i know, but sometimes its good sometimes not)

2. The Family (see above)

3. Feeling like living in a fish bowl, although this does wearoff

4. Not being able to pop off to the bar when your pissed off and just want to be alone

5. The lack of friends, speaking you own language, knowing your culture.

6. Difficulty in getting any falang food

7. Language no-body speaks decent english, but you'd be supprised how quickly you will pick thai up. (cos you've got to)

8 The distance to every thing, poping to the supermarket 45 km going to see a movie 65 km, but saying that time wise its probly the same as baout 3km inBKK.

Of coures they all dont apply to all people and places and is'nt extensive.

Intrested about Martins idea with the bungalow, was thinking of doing something like that, would'nt mind poping up to see you, but at 3000 a night you'd have to sing the tabien ban over to me I'll do a time swap with you I'll come and stay 2 nights and you can come and stay here for 4 (mine's not as fancy as you's)

[chanchao]

> a lot of us falangs don't got a choice where we end up living in

> Thailand. It's usually got to be somewhere close to the wife's family in

> order to keep her happy.

Well. You have the choice to move all the way out to Thailand but then you can't choose even where you settle down?? I know I made a pretty conscious decision as to exactly where I'd wanted to be and it completely did not involve any woman, Thai or otherwise.

For the rural versus city part, I'd like to be a bit in between. Bangkok was obviously way too uncomfortable, too much of everything, heat, pollution, traffic, people, expenses.. But I still like somewhat of an international environment, so I picked Chiang Mai. And then a bit out of town in the hills to actually live, still 20-30 minutes from town. Nice.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[RamdomChances]

Been up to Chang Mai a few times, we moved to Nakon for a variety of reasons , inc family and buissiness.

But if i was just retiring, Chang Mai is as good a place as any, Nice city, good Climate, lots of infrestructure, and beautiful scenary.

All the best

[Martin]

RandomChances, you are on!!. We'll do the time swap.

It will only be possible for us to visit you for 2 nights, as our trusted caretaker (my brother-in-law) has gone away to work in Brunei.

I can, however, persuade Thong to trust her son to water the garden, and not to forget to feed the dogs, for 3 days.

But you stay with us for as long as you like, though. Never mind 2-for-1.

As I am going to be explaining to Johann, the 3000 baht pppn is just a deliberate frightener, to keep away all the sorts of people that we wouldn't want to spend nearly all day with. But if we are sure they're OK it is a different matter.

For instance, we certainly don't want unknown backpackers. I am not impressed by the majority of backpackers, even on the Nepal Everest Trek.

However, if somewhere we meet a nice person, or pair, travelling by backpacking, we may well invite them to stay with us for free, if they get up to Esarn. If it was a business, just selling accommodation and food, it would be different. But, with a hobby, the bottom line is happy learnings and memories, and not shekels.

Your “Bad, 5. the lack of friends….” was the only drawback that worried me when, in 1997, I saw that this would be my retirement location. The idea of showing around like-minded farangs was seen as a possible answer. I foresaw some of my cousins visiting us and enjoying getting insight into the life of the silk villages, just like me. But there aren’t many of them, so I thought to attract similar people as paying guests. In the event, by 2002 when I did retire, the coming of the Internet had reduced the impact of that drawback enormously. Cyber-friends are great. You can put “Nineteen months in retrospect” into Google, and see my contribution about life in the Canadian Arctic to a great group of cyber-friends. We have never met, but just the little link that we are nostalgic about our time Up North, has drawn us together. Notice that we are like-minded, though. (Otherwise we wouldn’t have been up there, and wouldn’t be nostalgic about a period of weird service.) But cyber isn’t as good as actually meeting, so even though 'lack of friends' was no longer a big baddy, I left the website up, because it is still nice to meet a few like minds face-to-face each year.

I look forward to meeting you and comparing our comparisons of mid-Esarn with the lower end of the Northern Region. I have always gone to Chiang Mai cross-country from here, so Phitsanulok is the nearest that I have ever got to your neck of the woods.

[RamdomChances]

I was thinking the same sort of thing , really would like to promote this part of thailand , just so people can see thre country is not all about bars and girls, but you would really have to " baby sit" them when they where here cos of all the things you'vr already said. Ive only been back on line for about a week had to put sattilite in, so i'm not sure how to get in touch, but will try

[Martin]

Yohan: Sorry, but I have run out of time today. I will do my very best to give you a full answer tomorrow.

RandomChances: I'll PM you tomorrow.

Cheers, Martin.