Must Read Britain set for December 12 election to break the Brexit deadlock

[tebee]

55 minutes ago, kingdong said:

You chose to retire to Europe up to you,as for your comments regarding local council being obliged to house you,good luck with that one,you might get a place in a hostel.

I chose to retire to Europe rather than LOS precisely because I have chronic conditions  that would be covered by the healthcare system, whereas in Los I'd find it impossible to get cover.

 

I'm not impressed by people changing the rules on me 

 

 

[tebee]

5 hours ago, baansgr said:

Straight from project fear....UK and EU citizens rights have been protected so you will still receive healthcare....food shortages and price increases has been discussed and dismissed many times already and is a blatant lie

 

18 minutes ago, tebee said:

The UK government pays the healthcare costs of UK pensioners in Europe. They have stated they will continue to pay those costs for a further 6 months after a no deal brexit - in spite of which  many of my friends here got letters to  say their health cover would end on October 31st and they would have to make their own arrangements after that - all with less than two months notice. 

 

So any continued healthcare cover after that 6 months will entirely depend on the generosity of whatever member state you happen to live in. Our rights are NOT protected.  

 

There is a good deal of people who say there will be  food shortages and price increases - where is your evidence that there won't be ?

This is what the government have stated 

 

https://www.thelocal.com/20190923/massive-let-down-uk-pensioners-in-eu-given-just-six-months-healthcare-cover-in-no-deal-brexit

 

Note that even back in april they were promising to pay it for a year 

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-03-19/HCWS1429/

 

'It's like a death sentence': retired Britons in EU face loss of healthcare

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/07/like-death-sentence-retired-britons-eu-face-loss-healthcare

 

And you wonder why we feel unhappy about brexit....

[Jip99]

11 minutes ago, tebee said:

 

This is what the government have stated 

 

https://www.thelocal.com/20190923/massive-let-down-uk-pensioners-in-eu-given-just-six-months-healthcare-cover-in-no-deal-brexit

 

Note that even back in april they were promising to pay it for a year 

 

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-statement/Commons/2019-03-19/HCWS1429/

 

'It's like a death sentence': retired Britons in EU face loss of healthcare

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/07/like-death-sentence-retired-britons-eu-face-loss-healthcare

 

And you wonder why we feel unhappy about brexit....

 

a. But there is a deal.

 

b. You could always apply for citizenship of an EU country.

[tebee]

46 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

a. But there is a deal.

 

b. You could always apply for citizenship of an EU country.

a. We don't know the deal will be accepted yet, many pages of it have not yet been published,who knows what they might contain and who will find those contents unpalatable. The deal only pushes the deadline back to the end of transition - currently december 2020. After that time we are back to where we are now - there is no commitment so far in the bill to continue paying for UK pensioners healthcare, Can you see this government being happy to splurge out 2.5 billion on this if they don't have to?

 

b. The problem is that to acquire citizenship of another country one of the things you will have to show is that you have adequate health cover. You will still have no contributions to that country's social security system if you moved over post retirement.         

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, tebee said:

a. We don't know the deal will be accepted yet, many pages of it have not yet been published,who knows what they might contain and who will find those contents unpalatable. The deal only pushes the deadline back to the end of transition - currently december 2020. After that time we are back to where we are now - there is no commitment so far in the bill to continue paying for UK pensioners healthcare, Can you see this government being happy to splurge out 2.5 billion on this if they don't have to?

 

b. The problem is that to acquire citizenship of another country one of the things you will have to show is that you have adequate health cover. You will still have no contributions to that country's social security system if you moved over post retirement.         

Just a guess but anything as yet unpublished will likely be the unpalatable bits. 

[DannyCarlton]

2 hours ago, nauseus said:

Just a guess but anything as yet unpublished will likely be the unpalatable bits. 

People should realise that no deal is not off the table yet. It's been pushed back to January 31st. If Johnson's deal goes through, it will be pushed back to the end of 2020. It's still Johnson's aim.

[Nigel Garvie]

18 hours ago, transam said:

So you are saying Corby has not been chummy with Iran..?  ????

I was commenting on the inaccurate claim that Iran was the funder of terrorism exported to the West. I did not comment on Corbyn and Iran - read it again. "Chummy" is a misleading word to use in the context of international politics. UK politicians visit other countries all over the world without it implying endorsement.

 

On the other hand if you strike a private deal with the leader of another country without authorization from your own government that is technically treason I believe. Patel and (War criminal) Netanyahu being a good example. Now she is our Home Secretary - irony is dead. It would be hard to chose a bigger bunch of creeps for the UK Government front bench than BJ has done.

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 1:00 AM, AlexRich said:

Johnson taking a huge gamble, although the bookmakers have him down for a majority ... but that will depend on getting traditional Labour voters in the North of England voting for him to make up for losses in Scotland to SNP and in England to the Lib Dem’s. 

 

I think the bookies are wrong ... we’re heading for a hung parliament followed by a second referendum. Still life in the old Brexit dog yet!

I agree and my feeling is that the Lib Dems are going to come in strong with the younger and remain vote.

IMHO Labour voters in the north won't vote Tory out of principle, I think they are more likely to vote Brexit which splits the leave vote.

 

I really don't think the Tories are going to romp it as much as some think. More likely a hung parliament.

 

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 1:05 AM, AlexRich said:

In 2016 people voted Leave by a small majority. In 2017 “the people” chose the MP’s they tasked with deciding what form “leave” takes ... and they couldn’t. 

Let's not do this all again, it was 1.269 million people. To see how big that number is, go and sit in your chair and start counting.

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by Chelseafan

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 1:34 AM, Rookiescot said:

Johnson and his ERG mates want a no deal Brexit. They are going to dupe millions of people to vote for them so that they can avoid tax evasion and avoidance rules being brought in by the EU.

If Johnson wanted to leave with a deal why has he not progressed his own deal which was voted FOR by parliament? 

If you vote Conservative or Brexit Company at the next election then hell mend you all. You will get what you deserve. 

Just out of curiosity, what tax laws are being bought in by the EU ?

 

[shy coconut]

On 10/29/2019 at 11:16 PM, TopDeadSenter said:

That is one possibility. But what I see happening is Boris winning a majority, and the left (yet again) refusing to give losers consent, just as they have been doing since 2016. And then all sorts of mayhem will be unleashed. Hope I am wrong and that they will start respecting democratic principles.

555555555555555 stop it, you're killing me 55555555555555

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 2:48 AM, AlexRich said:

 

Totally missed the point. What leave? That was the job of an elected parliament, a group of people who were voted in to office AFTER the referendum result ... the "people" tasked them with the job ... and the people clearly did not vote for a "no deal" parliament.

 

 

How do you know that they didn't vote for a no deal?

 

As far as I can see there were no polls taken at the time on this subject. All polls on the on the subject have been taken over the past year or so and as we know polls can be wrong.

 

Happy to be corrected of course.

 

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:34 AM, luckyluke said:

If the U.K. (In accordance with the E.U.) vociferate, in a couple of months, that it is now out of the E.U.,

(but in reality isn't);

would the man in the street evidently perceive it? 

 

For the older, as myself, Belgians I know,  we all assume we are part of the E.U., as we have been told so, and continuous remembered. 

However none of us perceive any concrete difference from before the E.U. existed and now. 

A lot of Brits have never felt part of the EU, we're naturally suspicious having being brought up on Daily Mail 'bendy banana' headlines. We're a weird lot.

 

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:26 AM, Rookiescot said:

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/a-reminder-of-all-the-brexiteers-who-appeared-in-the-paradise-papers-as-eu-tax-avoidance-legislation-looms/03/09/

 

Of course you will now take the normal Brexit fundamentalist course of action and dismiss this as project fear.

At least throw one of your slogans in there. Brexit means Brexit or do or die or something like that just to add a little something to the debate ????

Your link then links to the Guardian which is two years out of date. The law as far as I know never came to fruition.

 

https://fullfact.org/online/brexit-not-concealing-offshore-accounts/

 

I suspect it's you who is spreading project fear.

 

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:49 AM, beautifulthailand99 said:

Hey Brexit Fan Boi's from your very own Daily Excess....

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1197306/General-Election-news-poll-polls-2019-vote-odds-Brexit-results-December-John-Curtice-UK

 

Polling Guru John Curtis has predicted a large win for non-Conservative and Labour with Boris facing another minority situation but with no coalition partners upon which to form a government.

This is because the Tories are no longer conservative and they no longer stand for Brexit.

Partly right, the polls are suggesting that most of the Tory gains will come from Northern Labour seats.

 

[Nigel Garvie]

27 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

I agree and my feeling is that the Lib Dems are going to come in strong with the younger and remain vote.

IMHO Labour voters in the north won't vote Tory out of principle, I think they are more likely to vote Brexit which splits the leave vote.

 

I really don't think the Tories are going to romp it as much as some think. More likely a hung parliament.

 

Yes, sound thoughts there, it is all a bit odd really, and to be honest I'm not to sure what to make of it. The experts appear to agree with you - it will not be a romp.

 

Our FPTP system throws up many anomalies (As does the state winner takes all one does in the US). Time and again the largest party (MPs) in the UK is not the one that got the most votes (Clinton got 3 million more votes than Trump in the US).

 

The Tories are way ahead in the polls, but what if they are just potentially stacking up huge majorities in safe seats in the Tory shires. The Brexit party poll support has faded, and that may be because their voters realize that they can safely vote Tory again now that the Tories have a a lying conman in charge just like their own lovely Nige, and still get the Brexit that their sad old Imperial hearts desire.

 

A key factor is the extent to which the Labour voters ignore the ludicrous wishes of their leaders, and vote tactically where Labour has no chance.

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, tebee said:

I chose to retire to Europe rather than LOS precisely because I have chronic conditions  that would be covered by the healthcare system, whereas in Los I'd find it impossible to get cover.

 

I'm not impressed by people changing the rules on me 

 

 

I chose to emigrate to a country in Africa and had to have it on my toes que sera.first time in your posts you mentioned you live abroad and will be affected by brexit,can only say the people in the uk,the majority that is ,democratically voted to leave the eu

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 1:46 PM, Bruntoid said:

Steer clear of intellectual level debates - it won’t end well for you 

Reminds me of one of my favourite George Carlin quotes

 

"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

 

Another one

 

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

 

Carry on.

 

[kingdong]

25 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

A lot of Brits have never felt part of the EU, we're naturally suspicious having being brought up on Daily Mail 'bendy banana' headlines. We're a weird lot.

 

Livingstones. bendy buses were the final nail  in the coffin.

[Chelseafan]

On 10/30/2019 at 6:12 PM, DannyCarlton said:

Check out Boris's deal. Trade negotiations must be completed by the end of next year or no deal.

Given our Governments history, do you REALLY think that will happen. They'll be another extension no doubt.

[kingdong]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:05 AM, tebee said:

And how is no deal going to be good for anyone in the UK, except for a few rich tax avoiding b*stards ?

 

It will mean higher food prices and fewer jobs.

 

There are 2 million UK pensioners the EU who will potentially lose their health cover. Many, like me will have chronic conditions that would not even be covered by private insurance. Our choice is going to be return to the UK or die.

 

So we get 2 million more people, most with long lasting problems for the good ol' NHS to cope with. I won't have enough to buy a house in the UK, and I'm over 65 so my local authority will be obliged to rehome me, either in a rest home or pay my rent for a flat, I'll get supplementary pension too. This is not going to help the UK housing shortage or finances.

 

No deal will be a disaster for the UK - not to mention me personally!   

 

Still once we get the opportunity to get rid of the ponces and dossers it should even out.

[sunnyboy2018]

nobody cares....not real people. The vote means nothing..politicans, liars and media pundits churn out the same old rubbish but the people dont care...whats the point?

[DannyCarlton]

11 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Given our Governments history, do you REALLY think that will happen. They'll be another extension no doubt.

No I don't think that will happen. Johnson will again try to run the clock down. Firstly to January 31st and the to the end of 2020, both of which would acieve a no deal Brexit, his one and only goal.

[Chelseafan]

On 10/31/2019 at 6:25 AM, Rookiescot said:

You unionists are in for a rude awakening when the revenue generated in Scotland is gone.

You do understand that the P.O. has been privitised yes?

 

Scotland generates around £52b for the UK in tax revenues of which £37b is returned.

The loss of £15b is worth it to get the SNP out of parliament ????

 

Hope the oil doesn't run out too soon otherwise it won't be us who are in for a rude awakening.

 

 

[Chelseafan]

4 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

No I don't think that will happen. Johnson will again try to run the clock down. Firstly to January 31st and the to the end of 2020, both of which would acieve a no deal Brexit, his one and only goal.

You're assuming that all in his party will vote the way he wants.

[DannyCarlton]

Just now, Chelseafan said:

You're assuming that all in his party will vote the way he wants.

Correct. Also, assuming that, if he wins a majority, all of those in his party who currently don't vote the way he wants, won't be in his party.

[Chelseafan]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

Correct. Also, assuming that, if he wins a majority, all of those in his party who currently don't vote the way he wants, won't be in his party.

Then it's possible that he won't have a majority and will be unable to get this damn thing done. So many ifs and buts...

 

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, Chelseafan said:

Then it's possible that he won't have a majority and will be unable to get this damn thing done. So many ifs and buts...

 

Until the morning of the 14th December it's all ifs and buts. Interesting times.

[Chelseafan]

On 11/2/2019 at 9:20 AM, beautifulthailand99 said:

Johnson obviously taken the line it is better not to campaign as he seems to be increasing his ratings by doing nothing. 

 

Panelbase: CON: 40% (+4) LAB: 29% (+2) LDEM 14% (-3) BREX: 9% (-2)

PaddyPower Majority Odds:

Tories: 5/6
No overall: 10/11
Labour: 14/1
Lib Dems: 66/1

Yes but the bookies have "No overall" to win...

 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Until the morning of the 14th December it's all ifs and buts. Interesting times.

Oh god no, not interesting times. The Chinese warned us about them!