6 minutes ago, Chazar said:

nah,  it  all boils down to whats easiest, cheapest, laziest and the........ i dont  care  attitude

Harsh! to some extent I used to think the same, now I live surrounded by "Farmers" the reality is a lot different.

Easiest = there's not a lot of choice, given what will grow in the soil here!

Cheapest = for sure, they have no money, they have to borrow to plant and harvest, they are left with not so much!

laziest = crappy diet, poor living conditions, little to no "education", extreme working conditions, poor return for output, not much to be enthused about!

I don't care attitude = for sure, Thai's are the most inconsiderate people I have come across, guess they have become accustomed to having to put themselves first?

Looking back at the history of "government" - hardly surprising........

Seems they have finally gotten over their diesel excuse, Time to start blaming the Cambodians. Anything but actually do something like ban sugar cane completely.

15 hours ago, farmerjo said:

In my area very few farmers burn their sugar.

It is the contractors that buy the standing sugar whom usually have 1000's of rai to complete before the mills close.

But feel free to tarnish all the farmers with the same brush.

The farmers let the contractors burn. guilty by association. For anything to change, maibpenrai must die. Thais must start saying to each other "you can't do that". 

 

Never going to happen. Sakdina is too strong.

A troll post and multiple irate replies have been removed

1 hour ago, ThailandRyan said:

From the Phuket News:  "embrace the longevity-enabling optimistic outlook for which Thainess is foremost and firmly rooted. Mai Pen Rai na, Yaa Kit Maak ไม่เป็นไรนะ อย่าคิดมาก – It’s alright na, don’t stress it!" 

 

Its why they just go with the flow Thomas...…..change is hard, its work, its a fight, just accepting something is as it is, leaves one as a part of the problem.  If your kids throw trash on the ground, do you just walk by and leave it, or do you pick it up and put it where it belongs.  To accept things as you see them as being just fine is not a solution to the ever widening issue.

 

this is why i prefer stoicism to buddhism. a stoic would not let the litter or the litterer bother him as it is beyond his control. he would however calmly put the litter in a bin as he always strives to be the best version of himself.

 

Edited January 21, 20206 yr by GeorgeCross

1 hour ago, ThomasThBKK said:

If this was coming from Thailand and Malaysia only, then maybe.... but Laos and Cambodia, Myanmar will not ever give a <deleted> without a military intervention.

Especially since the Cambodian smoking effort is sponsored by China. Yes, SEA is screwed. My condolences to Singaporeans, the only ones who managed to get their <deleted> together and are now victims of this.

7 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Especially since the Cambodian smoking effort is sponsored by China. Yes, SEA is screwed. My condolences to Singaporeans, the only ones who managed to get their <deleted> together and are now victims of this.

By Chinese companies yes, guess where the before mentioned thai company has it's factories besides Thailand. In China. And Laos.

 

Quote

Outside Thailand, Mitr Phol has seven sugar mills in Guangxi Province, China. In Laos, the "Mitr Lao mill" is in Savannakhet Province.

 

Skreweeeeed. 

18 hours ago, CharlieH said:

I posted this in another thread but seems fitting here too.....

 

Outside my gate yesterday (phetchabun), the mountains above the treeline totally obscured.

 

And before all those green plants were grown........

 

 

Well nobody they know died from it last year or looks like dying from it this year so next year will still be ok.

I live in Wichianburi, well just outside,everyday the morning is just smoke haze,it got so bad last week my eyes were constantly stinging from it,the fires go on from late arvo till sometimes 10 at night,given everything is so dry i am surprised nothing has yet seemed to get out of control. It won't stop until about songkran and the air won't clear until we get rain.

How can you fight the environmental challenges against ignorance and stupidity? 

... officials appear to be powerless or reluctant are too 'well-fed' to intervene to stop the practice.

A farmer near us found a new way to make money from his land. He made nearly 100,000 Baht by selling the topsoil from his farm (or at least the top 25 cm or so). Tractors, scrapers and trucks had it all off in only a few days too!

 

Talk about sustainable farming.

10 minutes ago, Stevemercer said:

A farmer near us found a new way to make money from his land. He made nearly 100,000 Baht by selling the topsoil from his farm (or at least the top 25 cm or so). Tractors, scrapers and trucks had it all off in only a few days too!

 

Talk about sustainable farming.

A lot of the rice fields were formed in the same manner, now they are useless for anything but rice - needs must!

3 hours ago, ThailandRyan said:

Straight from TAT:  Their definition, and in no way did I imply they were ignorant.  You need to do a little homework....

 

TAT's executive director of Advertising and Public Relations said: "Thainess is a distinctive characteristic that lies at the heart of the national and cultural identity of Thai people. To convey Thainess, especially to foreigners, is a challenging task, so we have defined seven areas that we are promoting to the foreign target market: Thai food, Thai arts, Thai ways of life, Thai wisdom, Thai wellness, Thai festivity and Thai fun. This, in a nutshell, is how the TAT has defined Thainess .

 

From the Phuket News:  "embrace the longevity-enabling optimistic outlook for which Thainess is foremost and firmly rooted. Mai Pen Rai na, Yaa Kit Maak ไม่เป็นไรนะ อย่าคิดมาก – It’s alright na, don’t stress it!" 

 

Its why they just go with the flow Thomas...…..change is hard, its work, its a fight, just accepting something is as it is, leaves one as a part of the problem.  If your kids throw trash on the ground, do you just walk by and leave it, or do you pick it up and put it where it belongs.  To accept things as you see them as being just fine is not a solution to the ever widening issue.

"TAT's executive director of Advertising and Public Relations said: "Thainess is a distinctive characteristic that lies at the heart of the national and cultural identity of Thai people. To convey Thainess, especially to foreigners, is a challenging task, so we have defined seven areas that we are promoting to the foreign target market: Thai food, Thai arts, Thai ways of life, Thai wisdom, Thai wellness, Thai festivity and Thai fun. This, in a nutshell, is how the TAT has defined Thainess ."

This is real?

Please tell me, you made that up!

????

3 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The AirVisual site, for simplicity purposes, has two general types of PM2.5/AQI readings...

 

1. are those from government and privately operated air quality sensors that report real time results for their location.

 

2. are AirVisual's own "modeled" ESTIMATES for areas where there are NO sensors. So they use the closest available sensors along with satellite data to make estimated pollution levels for those non-sensor locations.

 

There are two ways to know when a location on AirVisual doesn't reflect an actual sensor reading, and instead is a modeled estimate.

1. the AQI value listed on their website or app is followed with an "*" asterisk.

2. the geographic maps shown by AirVisual with the little round AQI value indicators only show actual sensor locations. They don't show any values for the modeled locations.

 

1) Sometimes instead of an asterisk "*" there is a tiny "7" to indicate that it's modeled.

 

E.g., Asia/Vietnam/An Giang/An Chau.

 

2) "2. the geographic maps shown by AirVisual with the little round AQI value indicators only show actual sensor locations. They don't show any values for the modeled locations."

 

That is only true sometimes.

With the Vietnam maps, they show a modeled value as well as the asterisk in the little circle indicators.

 

Air Visual's site would be much improved if they would make it clear at once if the number is modeled or not.

 

E.g., Asia/Vietnam/An Giang shows 11 areas, most of them modeled but the only way to know that is to click on them one by one.

 

The site also does strange things.

E.g., I've been closely watching Da Nang, Vietnam, which has 3 non-modeled sensors reported.

The daily history of these changes (the daily history of days in the past i.e. historical daily history).

This afternoon one of the 3 - the FTP Complex - switched to showing that many days  2.5 Daily readings were green 

I took a screenshot earlier today and it did not look like that.

During the past week there have been days when it's been over 100 at times.

 

One time looking at the 3 sites, one of them had a link for where the data comes from - it was 2 sources and they were  both Government.

I haven't been able to find that link again, and never found it for the other 2 Da Nang locations.

 

I've bounced back and forth daily about going there soon or not as I've been encouraged and then discouraged by fluctuating readings.

 

I think I will end up going although I feel something is wrong with the data collecting and the trip will find bad air overall and just one more unhealthy area.

 

 

Edited January 21, 20206 yr by JimmyJ

3 hours ago, CGW said:

I keep reading this, if this were 100% true in the off season the levels of pollution would be a lot lower than what they are especially in the cities. But there not! ?

Thomas is not riding the motocy- taxi every day, like me does!

Believe me: cars (eg cars, buses, motorcycles) ARE a huge problem!

11 minutes ago, Saint Nick said:

Thomas is not riding the motocy- taxi every day, like me does!

Believe me: cars (eg cars, buses, motorcycles) ARE a huge problem!

It's a bit of both at varying degrees. My business in Chiang Mai is in a heavily congested tourist area with a ton of tuktuks and songthaews racing past. It greatly affects the air quality, it is basically unbreathable 24/7, 12 months a year.

Other areas might not be affected by vehicle emissions at all, there the hazardous air is caused by agricultural burning.

Both need to be dealt with. The discussion on what causes the air pollution just takes away from the core issue. 

 

In Chiang Mai agricultural burning and forest fires give you a baseline air pollution level. Traffic adds to that, in certain areas.

Edited January 21, 20206 yr by Bassosa

2 hours ago, CGW said:

Harsh! to some extent I used to think the same, now I live surrounded by "Farmers" the reality is a lot different.

Easiest = there's not a lot of choice, given what will grow in the soil here!

Cheapest = for sure, they have no money, they have to borrow to plant and harvest, they are left with not so much!

laziest = crappy diet, poor living conditions, little to no "education", extreme working conditions, poor return for output, not much to be enthused about!

I don't care attitude = for sure, Thai's are the most inconsiderate people I have come across, guess they have become accustomed to having to put themselves first?

Looking back at the history of "government" - hardly surprising........

Are you talking about Thailand or a fantasy country? I live probably in one of the most remote areas in Isaan ... nothing you tell above is true here.

5 minutes ago, Enki said:

Are you talking about Thailand or a fantasy country? I live probably in one of the most remote areas in Isaan ... nothing you tell above is true here.

Thats fantastic, maybe you would like to share where you are, appears there is a hidden place in Isaan I for one know nothing about, you could also share per capita income and why the education and housing is so much better in your area?

Hmmm.... and in what way is this a surprise?

50 minutes ago, JimmyJ said:

Air Visual's site would be much improved if they would make it clear at once if the number is modeled or not.

 

 

I didn't do an exhaustive search... But in looking at Thailand sources the other day on the AirVisual website, all the Thailand entries I was seeing on their maps were for actual sensor locations, and the modeled ones were not showing on their website mapping.... At least among the various ones I was checking.

 

I was only looking at their website... not their app.

 

 

Edited January 21, 20206 yr by TallGuyJohninBKK

57 minutes ago, Saint Nick said:

"TAT's executive director of Advertising and Public Relations said: "Thainess is a distinctive characteristic that lies at the heart of the national and cultural identity of Thai people. To convey Thainess, especially to foreigners, is a challenging task, so we have defined seven areas that we are promoting to the foreign target market: Thai food, Thai arts, Thai ways of life, Thai wisdom, Thai wellness, Thai festivity and Thai fun. This, in a nutshell, is how the TAT has defined Thainess ."

This is real?

Please tell me, you made that up!

????

Nope straight off of the Bangkok Post interview he conducted Nick.....I don't post what's not original.

7 hours ago, cardinalblue said:

Rumak,

 

it sounds Like you had A very unhappy And hateful life from where you came from to compromise a basic right...

 

a little smoke? Number of thailand cities rank among top 10 air polluters year in year out now....

 

I don’t accept incompetency on an incredible important topic - actually a a human rights violation 

 

it’s one thing to have unintentional burning fires like in Australia or California who take it seriously; it’s another when it is intentional as it becomes willful negligence by the gov and guilty burners... 

ahmmm ........  from

https://www.airvisual.com/world-air-quality-ranking

 

 

1 hour ago, JimmyJ said:

1) Sometimes instead of an asterisk "*" there is a tiny "7" to indicate that it's modeled.

 

E.g., Asia/Vietnam/An Giang/An Chau.

 

2) "2. the geographic maps shown by AirVisual with the little round AQI value indicators only show actual sensor locations. They don't show any values for the modeled locations."

 

That is only true sometimes.

With the Vietnam maps, they show a modeled value as well as the asterisk in the little circle indicators.

 

Air Visual's site would be much improved if they would make it clear at once if the number is modeled or not.

 

E.g., Asia/Vietnam/An Giang shows 11 areas, most of them modeled but the only way to know that is to click on them one by one.

 

The site also does strange things.

E.g., I've been closely watching Da Nang, Vietnam, which has 3 non-modeled sensors reported.

The daily history of these changes (the daily history of days in the past i.e. historical daily history).

This afternoon one of the 3 - the FTP Complex - switched to showing that many days  2.5 Daily readings were green 

I took a screenshot earlier today and it did not look like that.

During the past week there have been days when it's been over 100 at times.

 

One time looking at the 3 sites, one of them had a link for where the data comes from - it was 2 sources and they were  both Government.

I haven't been able to find that link again, and never found it for the other 2 Da Nang locations.

 

I've bounced back and forth daily about going there soon or not as I've been encouraged and then discouraged by fluctuating readings.

 

I think I will end up going although I feel something is wrong with the data collecting and the trip will find bad air overall and just one more unhealthy area.

 

 

I have only been using their phone app.

 

 

 

"This afternoon one of the 3 - the FTP Complex - switched to showing that many days  2.5 Daily readings were green 

I took a screenshot earlier today and it did not look like that."

 

This is entirely my mistake - I should have double checked before writing that.

The history for that area did not change during the day.

 

Shocked it ended up with the FTP Complex going green so often.

I'm hoping it is accurate...

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 21, 20206 yr by JimmyJ

The people here are going to do whatever they want. Always have and always will. Instead of targeting the farmers that burn which is a lot, maybe they could target the sugar mills, which are a lot less then sugar farms, and ban them from accepting burnt sugar.

 

I know then you would need inspectors and God forbid, some may try to offer incentives to look the other way.

Hard teaching old dogs new tricks.

The amount of pampering of this country's farmers is getting way out of hand. They can dry their crops on public streets, burn fields and cause serious damage to peoples' health and get bailed out by the government when they flood the market with a specific product, completely oblivious to supply and demand.

5 minutes ago, Myran said:

The amount of pampering of this country's farmers is getting way out of hand. They can dry their crops on public streets, burn fields and cause serious damage to peoples' health and get bailed out by the government when they flood the market with a specific product, completely oblivious to supply and demand.

If the majority weren't living below the poverty line I could agree with you!

Supply and demand, maybe you could research further and find out the truth?

Do you believe everything you read in the Thai ("government") media?

As bad as it sounds,we need more sugar factories.

The 4 month window to cut sugar is to large.

That needs to be cut to 6 weeks. 

 

 

25 minutes ago, CGW said:

If the majority weren't living below the poverty line I could agree with you!

A big reason they are in poverty is because of bad practices and refusal to change. Burning is bad for farming. Burnt cane is worth less than green and is of lower quality so it would be better for everyone if it were not burnt. Burnt fields are in turn depleted and prone to soil erosion. Interesting they already tried only buying green cane in some areas and it was a failure. The farmers sold their green cane and went right back to the fields and burned them as usual. Maybe that's why this year they had to come up with the new reward strategy to report farmers seen burning their fields.