Widespread sugarcane burning continues uninterrupted by local authorities

[CGW]

15 minutes ago, canopy said:

 

A big reason they are in poverty is because of bad practices and refusal to change. Burning is bad for farming. Burnt cane is worth less than green and is of lower quality so it would be better for everyone if it were not burnt. Burnt fields are in turn depleted and prone to soil erosion. Interesting they already tried only buying green cane in some areas and it was a failure. The farmers sold their green cane and went right back to the fields and burned them as usual. Maybe that's why this year they had to come up with the new reward strategy to report farmers seen burning their fields.

"Farmers" are in poverty in Thailand mainly due to the "class" system, & the poor soil & growing conditions, it has nothing to do with burning. Tell that to the Farmers in Australia, Brazil and countless other countries, burning is more economical and feasible as unsurprisingly its difficult to find people willing to work for minimum wage in stinking hot, snake infested plantations, quiet understandable, wouldn't be my job of choice.

I agree burnt cane has a marginally lower price and shouldn't be burnt ideally, though disagree that it is bad for the land - its not.

Cane production has increased significantly in recent years due to government subsidies for farmers to switch away from rice to sugar cane, previously it was not grown on a large scale in Thailand, so blaming the burning of sugar cane crops doesn't hold much ground for poverty I'm afraid.

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, CGW said:

Cane production has increased significantly in recent years due to government subsidies for farmers to switch away from rice to sugar cane

And following the money .. there's one who apparently is benefiting from this switch. Explains the subsidies. Good ol' boys club in action and starts to get even clearer why absolutely nothing will be done.

[CGW]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

Good ol' boys club in action and starts to get even clearer why absolutely nothing will be done.

If they wanted to take action all they have to do is ban the mills from buying burnt cane - easy, but costly for them!

The end user, the "good old boys" club that makes all the money, they are never mentioned, easy to create bad publicity for the "Farmers" who have no recourse to what the government propaganda rags print, not as stupid as some people think are they?

[kickstart]

1 hour ago, DrTuner said:

And following the money .. there's one who apparently is benefiting from this switch. Explains the subsidies. Good ol' boys club in action and starts to get even clearer why absolutely nothing will be done.

What subsidies? they was none to switch from rice to cane ,and this year there is no subsidies at all ,with the drought and low yields ,yields are down by 50%, most cane farmers will be losing  money ,that is certainly the case in this area ,750 baht/ton this year, lower than the past 2-3 years .

As I have wrote before ,most of the farmers in our country's get subsidies  for nearly all they crops  the Federal government in the USA and the EU in Europe ,more than most farmers here in Thailand . 

[dcnx]

Did anyone actually expect this year to be different?

[SoilSpoil]

19 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Did anyone actually expect this year to be different?

It is different. Instead of only the people in the north, now most of the country is choking.

[lvr181]

On 1/20/2020 at 10:23 PM, Grumpy John said:

It's ridiculous the government does nothing to stop it. 

The Govt does nothing.......to enforce many laws/regulations! FULL STOP.

[canopy]

11 hours ago, CGW said:

disagree that it is bad for the land - its not.

 

Wrong. Here are the results of a study published in 2018:

 

Pre-harvest burning negatively affected the major soil fertility indicators (Organic Matter, N and EC) of came plantation, impair the health of the inhabitants residing in the vicinity of the plantation and also aggravate the moisture loss of cane after harvest. The loss of the biomass and the subsequent decline in SOM and total N might, therefore, play a role for the yield decline being observed in the sugar estates.

 

[canopy]

11 hours ago, CGW said:

"Farmers" are in poverty in Thailand mainly due to the "class" system

Wrong again. They are in poverty because they grow antiquated subsistence farming size plots which are not competitive with modern, efficient growers around the world. 10 rai worked for subsistence, not anymore. Today Thai farmers have become a burden to the tax payer. Torching the fields and dousing them with horrible poisons is doing more harm than good and it's a painful truth the farmers cannot accept. And it is incredibly stupid to tell everyone around you "hey i'm burning stuff every year to save a baht and a lot of you will suffer and get sick and end up in the hospital." And then our hearts melt and we all end up feeling sorry for them and prop up this failed system which only assures a deeper, longer cycle of poverty for the farmers and poor health of the inhabitants. Great system.

 

[BritManToo]

16 minutes ago, canopy said:

Wrong again. They are in poverty because they grow antiquated subsistence farming size plots which are not competitive with modern, efficient growers around the world. 10 rai worked for subsistence, not anymore. Today Thai farmers have become a burden to the tax payer. Torching the fields and dousing them with horrible poisons is doing more harm than good and it's a painful truth the farmers cannot accept. And it is incredibly stupid to tell everyone around you "hey i'm burning stuff every year to save a baht and a lot of you will suffer and get sick and end up in the hospital." And then our hearts melt and we all end up feeling sorry for them and prop up this failed system which only assures a deeper, longer cycle of poverty for the farmers and poor health of the inhabitants. Great system.

 

Yes, selling all the land to big corporations to grow genetically modified Frankenstein food, and making all the rural population homeless, like we did in the west,  is such a better idea. 

[farmerjo]

12 minutes ago, canopy said:

They are in poverty because they grow antiquated subsistence farming size plots which are not competitive with modern, efficient growers around the world.

Yes the system is flawed,but a landless farmer is not going to invest in his future without land reform.

These farmers don't see the subsidies and will continue on the same methods. 

[ThailandRyan]

Govt blames public for PM2.5 levels

Here we go, you can not make it up.....straight from the PM's mouth....Time for enforcement of the laws on the books to help us all.  But then according to that certain person in power it would not be good because financially they could not afford the fines!!!!!

 

 

[canopy]

10 minutes ago, ThailandRyan said:

Govt blames public for PM2.5 levels

However this is a landmark admission. In past years poor air was always blamed on Burma, the weather, and other factors. Never was it Thai people's fault. Putting blame where it belongs is an unprecedented and also a necessary step towards change.

 

[canopy]

26 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Yes, selling all the land to big corporations to grow genetically modified Frankenstein food, and making all the rural population homeless, like we did in the west,  is such a better idea. 

I don't know what the future is, but when I look around Thailand's failed system of poor farmers and poor quality produce coming from them I am sure that is not it. Thailand's produce is extremely unhealthy and poisons they use are banned or extremely curtailed in the first world. Not only is the health of the people being trampled on, so is that of the environment. Thailand should have healthier food, richer farmers, and a cleaner environment instead of propping up this failed, downward spiral of burning and poisoning everything.

 

[URMySunshine]

56 minutes ago, canopy said:

Wrong again. They are in poverty because they grow antiquated subsistence farming size plots which are not competitive with modern, efficient growers around the world. 10 rai worked for subsistence, not anymore. Today Thai farmers have become a burden to the tax payer. Torching the fields and dousing them with horrible poisons is doing more harm than good and it's a painful truth the farmers cannot accept. And it is incredibly stupid to tell everyone around you "hey i'm burning stuff every year to save a baht and a lot of you will suffer and get sick and end up in the hospital." And then our hearts melt and we all end up feeling sorry for them and prop up this failed system which only assures a deeper, longer cycle of poverty for the farmers and poor health of the inhabitants. Great system.

 

It was called I think the "Sufficiency Economy" and is therefore beyond criticism. 

[URMySunshine]

17 minutes ago, canopy said:

However this is a landmark admission. In past years poor air was always blamed on Burma, the weather, and other factors. Never was it Thai people's fault. Putting blame where it belongs is an unprecedented and also a necessary step towards change.

 

Baby jackboot steps as it were. 

[Tropposurfer]

Poverty and sheer weight of survival necessity prompts much of the burning by many. 
it’s easy to say “stupid, ignorant, selfish, instant satisfaction / result Thais”. As a falang it appears to me that my country is the epitome of selfish ME thinking and that Thais aren’t set apart in this way of thinking and living.

its falangs that invented plastic and mass marked it to the world, falangs that drove and drive capitalist growth/profit shaped economics.

perhaps a tad of humility might be in order for a load of our, dare I say it; arrogant ar..s (butts).

[snatur]

Well, I have spoken to my wife not only about this problem only and asked why people in a district do not use a special vehicle to harvest the sugar cane, may include the rice too. However..

 

Because every district could buy such a vehicle with a certain amount of money from everybody there need this vehicle for harvest the cane, even rice too and then use it together.

 

The massive pollution and fallout caused by the burned leaves from the cane, which can be seen on the roofs, the balcony, the streets, usually everywhere, then often the next morning and in the following days make life a pain and hurts for everyone concerned.  

Of course air pollution and health problems as a result too.

 

But in a nutshell .. and even if that were possible, it fails,-  because nobody uses responsibility for maintenance or servicing after using the harvesting vehicle. This is usually the main problem in many cases too.

 

But this is just one point. No matter what this people are, but there is no responsibility, selfishness is very great.  

 

Furthermore, the catastrophic school education, or education in general.  Unfortunately, the Thais do not want to rethink, at least the large part, they are constantly using old styles and currently unsuitable behavior patterns to use it every day, on the contrary, they want to have everything that they cannot build or  produce by themselves.  

 

This and all what they use today, the technology.... anything, of course, from abroad, even without knowing how to deal with it.  

 

A very bad problem but wanted by the elite is the lack of the opportunity to independently discuss or think.  All responsibility is shifted to others !!

 

Doctrination is omnipresent in this pitiable system. It is only learned by heart, never asked, or improvements in behavior are made.  Every educated person knows that the brain builds a basic structure in the first 3 to 14 years of life in order to establish a knowledge base to keep new knowlegdes combinate at the receptor connection in the brain.

 

This is completely missing from this people.  The brain is no longer able to add  or understand logical things in the further life.  Very unfortunate in connection with the ignorance and selfishness of these people, who are basically under the monkey style of the real intelligence.

 

As a rule, they never use the mind, in so far as it exists, no matter what they do.  Nor do they want competent help from educated and trained foreigners, because in their stupidity, their selfishness and in their doctrine they actually think that they are the best.  

 

Of course it doesn't help if we are worry or angry about it.  They do not accept a professional helping hand from other countries, or from us at all.  But it is very difficult for educated people like us to come to terms with this mentality.  

 

Even in private conversations with open-minded Thais, these abuses are addressed, not to speak of the mentally ill behavioral behavior in the government.

 

I personally gave up to hope with this strange people and try to see the situation like in a psycho film. Like living death! Sorry, there is no hope for them. Because they are only living in ignorance, stupidity, selfishness and a catastrophic attitude in this pitiable people.

 

I've lived here in the land of wheezing and lying for 35 years.  I speak the language fluently, can read and write. But I had to rape my soul to even accept this people more or less.  Unfortunately, most foreigners break on these things.  But I can deal with it with a mental damage.  Perhaps it would be good for many foreigners affected if they could still leave the country in order to be able to live better with more intelligent people in a cultivated country, however or somewhere in asia and do not make the killing life and soul for itself ... maybe ... Think twice !!!

 

[sletraveler]

It’s as bad or worse in Lampang and Lamphun.    Not gonna be fixed in my lifetime so going to checkout Philippines.   

[WalkingOrders]

There is a lot of money held by the Gov that should be used to support farmers as incintive, for equipment or workers, to farmers who give up burning. Without means or will to enforce, you have to overcome the economic incintive that farmers have not to burn. Policy is not effective if it isn't working. This countries failure to do something is literally cutting years off of their own population through a failure to act. As a matter of fact the entire country is turning into a filthy cesspool from ground to air. If this was a nation that was broke, or not in a position to deal with it, then it would be forgivable. That isn't the case. Shame on them for failing to take actions when they can afford it.

[justin case]

why not make that THAI SUGAR GIANT not pay for ... euh ... education of the farmers or something...

[elgenon]

On 1/20/2020 at 3:54 AM, Liverpudlian said:

Money is way too important here than any loss of life.

You mean like Roundup and Opioids?

[Assurancetourix]

20 hours ago, overherebc said:

Well nobody they know died from it last year or looks like dying from it this year so next year will still be ok.

Let's go to the end of cinism ..
25,000 to 30,000 road deaths each year and zero deaths from fires in the sugar cane fields;
let's start by deleting the vehicles on the roads or better, delete the roads themselves.
What do you think ?

 

I don't care , I have my MTBike can go everywhere even without a road ..

I think that I'm becoming as stupid as a Thai 

[Assurancetourix]

18 hours ago, CGW said:

Thats fantastic, maybe you would like to share where you are, appears there is a hidden place in Isaan I for one know nothing about, you could also share per capita income and why the education and housing is so much better in your area?

I too would like to know where, in which province in Isaan;
in any case in mine, Sakon Nakhon and that which touches Udon Thani, the fields of sugar cane burn every night;
I should have tried a photo last night;
far from my home, can be ten km, on the horizon, towards Song Dao I think, a magnificent red / orange color which clearly indicated to me that one or more fields were burning.

[URMySunshine]

This truly is Apocalypse Now. The Death of a Nation. ????

[CGW]

13 hours ago, kickstart said:

What subsidies? they was none to switch from rice to cane

Yes there were! look back a few years, my wife received subsidy for land so sure of this fact!

[Assurancetourix]

12 hours ago, rhyddid said:

SOLUTION

TAX 1000% sugar factories or what ever sugar product !

Why not ?

 

Sugar produced by refining cane or beet is a poison for the human organism; (salt too but for other reasons)
let's go back to what our ancestors did;
use honey or other natural products.

Ah yes, but I think about it, honey is produced by domestic or wild bees;
however these animals are decimated by the chemicals invented by the men  and manufactured by Bayer which is owner of Monsanto.
In fact Humanite likes to hurt itself ...

[CGW]

11 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

I too would like to know where, in which province in Isaan;

No reply from OP, Why do these posters come on, post rubbish then keep quiet, what is the point in that! 

[Assurancetourix]

12 hours ago, SoilSpoil said:

It is different. Instead of only the people in the north, now most of the country is choking.

 

It is exactly the same when there is a flood;
as long as it does not touch Bangkok, the authorities do not care;
The rest of Thailand can be under 2 meters of muddy water,
Bangkok is not, the authorities do not move.
but there, in addition to industrial and automobile pollution, smoke from the cane fields arrives in Bangkok and the authorities discover the extent of the disaster that affects all of Thailand.
I think it is too late , except to use the army to go and do the work for which the police are paid ... but which they refuse to do for multiple reasons;
to start with this one:

the police are generally local people because they bought their place and were not appointed according to their results on the final exam.
It is impossible for a cop to go and fine his brother-in-law or his father ...

[Liverpudlian]

And i of course replied with lower grades one buys, smoke gets in your eyes ????