Is Thailand Going Down In Flames?

[lannarebirth]

I decided to 'jump ship' from Thailand right after the military coup, just to be sure. It's been a few months now, but I continue to read an increasing number of articles and posts about how Thailand is not only more unwelcoming to foreigners, but is harming itself even more than before.

Needless to say, Thailand is a much less predictable place than it was before.

Excuse the dramatic title (and I don't mean to sound like a troll), but what do you think? Is Thailand on a path to self-destruction or are the recent hiccups only a temporary roadside attraction in the annals of history?

Thailand is a Third world country that is going backwards at a fast rate.

I've been coming to Thailand for 25 years and have lived here 5 years. The standard of living for almost everyone has steadily increased year after year. At some point sexpats will find it more difficult to exploit economic weakness toward their own ends. is that what you call going backwards?

[Hobox]

If you have been here 8 years ..... why would English in a Thai bank be of any importance to you? <<I always find the language question for long timers amusing! Like a Thai or French or Chinese would cry about living in the USA and the people at the bank speaking less French or Thai or Chinese than before!>>

Tourists ... you know the folks that go on vacation for a few weeks or a month ... maybe even 2 ... are not getting treated worse at all.

See you claim to stay in Phuket. Regular bank staff in Phuket don't speak english but they deal with tourists all the time. And if you are so good at Thai, please do me a favor and call 1103 and ask why YouTube is censored again. I "pless 9 fol engelish" and still can't make myself understood.

Police corruption WORSE? don't see any evidence that it is getting worse .. the situation may even be improving!

Read the papers, ask around, sit a few minutes at Patong police station and just watch. You don't even have to go there night time and then tell me that the same thing again.

[Jet Gorgon]

Cambodia. Ya, last I heard, foreign residents had house guards armed with AK47s. Nice way to live.

[Hobox]

Hobox is moving to the Philippines because he can't stand corruption here! I'm sure he will find it a paradise that's so free of corruption over there!! Oh my...

But at least it's improving and not the other way around, ok for sure Phil is still a lot more corrupt then LOS.

[jdinasia]

If you have been here 8 years ..... why would English in a Thai bank be of any importance to you? <<I always find the language question for long timers amusing! Like a Thai or French or Chinese would cry about living in the USA and the people at the bank speaking less French or Thai or Chinese than before!>>

Tourists ... you know the folks that go on vacation for a few weeks or a month ... maybe even 2 ... are not getting treated worse at all.

See you claim to stay in Phuket. Regular bank staff in Phuket don't speak english but they deal with tourists all the time. And if you are so good at Thai, please do me a favor and call 1103 and ask why YouTube is censored again. I "pless 9 fol engelish" and still can't make myself understood.

Police corruption WORSE? don't see any evidence that it is getting worse .. the situation may even be improving!

Read the papers, ask around, sit a few minutes at Patong police station and just watch. You don't even have to go there night time and then tell me that the same thing again.

Youtube is working .... and having never been to the Patong police station ... well I'll leave that for you But again ... I see no signs of police corruption being worse.

Again ... 8 years! Yes I can do my banking in Thai ... yes I can call the Thai #'s for service related things. I would think that anybody that lived here for that long would have managed to scrape together enough language skills in their adopted country's native language for survival I am only in my 4th year living in Thailand ... and though I still find LONG conversations on non-standard topics draining. I can manage it!

[LoveDaBlues]

Had you stayed around you would know that it's pretty much business as normal. The great political game being played out barely touches the lives of farangs and the so-called anti-foreigner sentiment is nothing more than a tightening of business ownership laws which - frankly - do more than bring Thailand in line with international norms.

Even the much-maligned visa tightening was done before the coup, not after and that also was a closing of loopholes.

Thailand is NOT on a path to self-destruction. It will be here long after you and I disappear. What is going on is no more than random political turmoil in a tumultuous part of the world.

If there are fewer tourists around (and I don't see much evidence of that) it's purely a result of the strong baht which is nothing to do with Thailand or anti-farang sentiment.

What Thailand are you talking about?

My Thailand is going headfirst into a wall. Tourists get treated like dirt at immigration, rules change quicker then I can type them, police corruption escalating, locals are getting worse at english (and I don't mean the bargirls now, I mean in banks, customer service and so on), etc etc

During my 8 years here now, 2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

Poor, poor, little boy. How dare the subservient locals let their English skills slip.

[ThaiGoon]

But at least it's improving and not the other way around, ok for sure Phil is still a lot more corrupt then LOS.

Guess you missed out on the latest survey on corruption among Asian countries. Man, you sure are very knowledgeable. No wonder why you've been in Thailand for 8 years and still can't grasp Thai language.

Edited April 4, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[jasreeve17]

2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

. . . where, no doubt, you will find things so much better than here. Good luck.

Hobox is moving to the Philippines because he can't stand corruption here! I'm sure he will find it a pradise that's so free of corruption over there!! Oh my...

Thaigoon, you've offered three posts so far. All state "If Thailand is bad, then that place is worse, ha ha." - Why do you bother?

Have a look at the posts from Bendix and JRTexas. They have different opinions, but they are interesting opinions that are backed up by arguments based in logic. That is the way to go.

I belive that Bendix and JRTexas both have good points. I'm slightly more towards JRTexas's thoughts, as I believe that you should encourage all revenue streams, and not just the most obviously large one. When you look a bit deeper, the other revenue streams may well be surprisingly profitable. Of course, multiple revenue streams limits (or reduces) your risk too.

As far as Bendix states - Thailand is trying to protect it's own, which as a thought, is not a bad thing. Indeed America does the same.

But, in a globalizing World it's a very bad policy. You must open your markets, encourage innovative thinkers, and businesses, to compete on the wider stage. Otherwise you'll be left far behind. That is the danger that Thailand has now, in my humble opinion.

Protectionalism is a very dangerous game to play in a globalizing World. Thais do it in their governmental policies, and it's in their fundametal mindset (Americans too actually), but in order to have the best possible future for Thailand, this needs to drastically change.

[davidjtayler]

Interesting topic that has been flogged to death lately and attracts totally opposite views from both sides of the debate.

To me it is painfully clear the side of the fence you fall upon in this topic depends on what you actually want from where you live and your current situation and therefore will always be a subjective answer.

If you fall into the category of expat that has stable employment, stable relationship and stable visa situation then you could automatically fall into the positive side of the fence and view Thailand positively.

If you fall into the category of expat that has any sort of unstability (particularly visa) then you could automatically

fall into the negative side of the fence and view Thailand negatively.

As always perception is the key and its not always a black and white issue but many shades of grey.

Thailand is going through a period of change at the moment hence the uncertainty from many people both expat and Thai but as always I like to think positively and pragmatically as at the end of the day if I don't it's only my mental health that will suffer.

[JR Texas]

Had you stayed around you would know that it's pretty much business as normal. The great political game being played out barely touches the lives of farangs and the so-called anti-foreigner sentiment is nothing more than a tightening of business ownership laws which - frankly - do more than bring Thailand in line with international norms.

Even the much-maligned visa tightening was done before the coup, not after and that also was a closing of loopholes.

Thailand is NOT on a path to self-destruction. It will be here long after you and I disappear. What is going on is no more than random political turmoil in a tumultuous part of the world.

If there are fewer tourists around (and I don't see much evidence of that) it's purely a result of the strong baht which is nothing to do with Thailand or anti-farang sentiment.

What Thailand are you talking about?

My Thailand is going headfirst into a wall. Tourists get treated like dirt at immigration, rules change quicker then I can type them, police corruption escalating, locals are getting worse at english (and I don't mean the bargirls now, I mean in banks, customer service and so on), etc etc

During my 8 years here now, 2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

Poor, poor, little boy. How dare the subservient locals let their English skills slip.

JR Texas: Can we discuss the topic? Here it is: Is Thailand Going Down in Flames?

[qualtrough]

During my 8 years here now, 2007 have started out real bad and for the first time I have made plans to pack up and leave. Just not clear where yet, maybe to the Phillipines or Cambodia.

Good luck with that! :D And don't let the screendoor hit ya on the ass on the way out!

[Furbie]

Interesting topic that has been flogged to death lately and attracts totally opposite views from both sides of the debate.

To me it is painfully clear the side of the fence you fall upon in this topic depends on what you actually want from where you live and your current situation and therefore will always be a subjective answer.

If you fall into the category of expat that has stable employment, stable relationship and stable visa situation then you could automatically fall into the positive side of the fence and view Thailand positively.

If you fall into the category of expat that has any sort of unstability (particularly visa) then you could automatically

fall into the negative side of the fence and view Thailand negatively.

As always perception is the key and its not always a black and white issue but many shades of grey.

Thailand is going through a period of change at the moment hence the uncertainty from many people both expat and Thai but as always I like to think positively and pragmatically as at the end of the day if I don't it's only my mental health that will suffer.

I fall into this category, yet I am very concerned about the current and future direction of the country. Though I view Thailand positively, I see many changes for the worse, and few for the better.

[ThaiGoon]

Thaigoon, you've offered three posts so far. All state "If Thailand is bad, then that place is worse, ha ha." - Why do you bother?

Only one actually. And that's not even my point. My point was why anyone would ever wanna go a country that's worse than Thailand in terms of ocrruption and yet wanna leave Thailand for that very reason? It's just absurd and made all their complaints about Thailand look really silly.

I hope you can understand me now.

[Gravelrash]

I think this whole debate about Thailand "getting worse" really does depend on your situation. Those retired here on adequate funds will be comfortable and see no problem, those struggling on visa runs will see doom and gloom.

I've been coming here, working and living for 15 years, and really don't see any big difference. My business has lately been adversly affected, so I am changing to another idea I have, no different to being at the whim of economic cycles anywhere.

I often think many complainers are just those that have changed from holidaying to staying, and it isn't what they thought it would be. The option to go home is always there. Seems too that the alternate destinations canvassed are always alternate mongering spots. That alone reveals all about the thinking process. I doubt a better lifestyle awaits in Cambodia.

Learn to adapt, whinging on forums won't change anything.

[onzestan]

My humble opinion:

If you're looking for negatives you will find them.

No need to look for positives, they're everywhere in this beautiful country.

And I for one feel very here.

Maybe because as a rule, I dress nice, try to be friendly and polite, treat everyone with

respect as long as they've not proven to be a'''''''''''les. Works for me.

Cheers

Onzestan

[dumspero]

I don't see how anyone can say it's subjective or gray or close as to whether things in Thailand have improved over the last 20 years. By almost any standard life has gotten dramatically better for the majority of Thais, the economically poor included.

Who cares if foreigners who are in Thailand for cheap sex don't find it as affordable as before. Thailand is wise, in my view, to steer those folks toward the airport and off to the PI or wherever it's still dirt cheap to rent people for sex. And maybe those folks should consider Bangladesh or India, in some slum somewhere.

Funny to see people talk about the PI. Have been going to both places for about 20 years. Only one of the two still has an international airport terminal with plastic lettered-signs (you know, the type you change by hand), and regularly has to have guys with buckets in the restroom to flush the toilets. Sad, really.

[ThaiGoon]

I fall into this category, yet I am very concerned about the current and future direction of the country. Though I view Thailand positively, I see many changes for the worse, and few for the better.

I think a lot of negatives have been caused by Ms. Tarisa and Pridiyadhon (spelling?). They sure have made some serious mistakes. Now Chalongphob is in charge. I think things will definitely get better. He talked a lot of sense on Bloomberg (which I saw a few days ago.) The capital controls will be lifted soon. The amendment to the FBA is still under revision before it finally goes into effect. The situation in the South appears to have stabilized somewhat. The interest rate will be cut to stimulate the economy. The general election is coming soon. So I believe things will definitely start to get better in the 3rd quarter of this year.

For Thais and long term residents, I can definitely see that things will certainly get better.

[JR Texas]

Interesting topic that has been flogged to death lately and attracts totally opposite views from both sides of the debate.

To me it is painfully clear the side of the fence you fall upon in this topic depends on what you actually want from where you live and your current situation and therefore will always be a subjective answer.

If you fall into the category of expat that has stable employment, stable relationship and stable visa situation then you could automatically fall into the positive side of the fence and view Thailand positively.

If you fall into the category of expat that has any sort of unstability (particularly visa) then you could automatically

fall into the negative side of the fence and view Thailand negatively.

As always perception is the key and its not always a black and white issue but many shades of grey.

Thailand is going through a period of change at the moment hence the uncertainty from many people both expat and Thai but as always I like to think positively and pragmatically as at the end of the day if I don't it's only my mental health that will suffer.

JR Texas to DavidJTaylor and Jasrevee17: Thanks for the input. I was attempting to show that beliefs are guided by self-interest. We are all biased in some way based on our personal experiences and beliefs.

I like the way you used the phrase "could automatically fall into" as opposed to "will automatically fall into." My situation in order to understand my bias: At one time I was fairly rich. Now I am not rich, but I am not poor. I do not have a visa problem.

I do not want to tell you what I do. But I will state that I interact with influential people in Thailand. I prefer living in a stable environment, so I suppose my bias is related to this in some way.

I have lived in Asia for over two decades. Most of that time has been spent in Thailand. I have a lot invested here.........I want to see positive changes take place.

The only reason I say anything critical (positive criticism) is because I actually care about what is happening. If I did not care, I would not say anything.

[jasreeve17]

Thaigoon, you've offered three posts so far. All state "If Thailand is bad, then that place is worse, ha ha." - Why do you bother?

Only one actually. And that's not even my point. My point was why anyone would ever wanna go a country that's worse than Thailand in terms of ocrruption and yet wanna leave Thailand for that very reason? It's just absurd and made all their complaints about Thailand look really silly.

I hope you can understand me now.

Thank you. I can understand that nicely made point. Keep up the good work.

I do agree with the posters that question why you'd move on to Cambodia, Phillipines, or even Vietnam. If you just want to go there, fine, that's up to you. But because of less problems there, than in Thailand, is not logical.

[ColPyat]

The situation in the South appears to have stabilized somewhat.

It hasn't. It gets worse every day. Almost everybody down south expects a religious/ethnic war between the communities.

[tijnebijn]

No Thailand is not going down in flames,it is just burning its feet a bit.DO'not forget that the Thai people themselves are suffering the most now.How the thaksin episode story will end?What will the millitary do?Stay in power?Who comes next?How the people will react ,I think could be horendous,when they realize the power is out of their hands.The Powers to come will stick with lets say bubble people in baloons ,so they believe evrything they say,stick behind a yellow shirt,but in the meantime doing something or creating something very different,so pople are getting in a bubble.But I do not think is will burn in flames,eventually,like in the past,things will come 'to normal'and the past will be the past,and a new elected prime minister willbe,and ofcourse with new things to come,but this is Thailand......For now some time to watch in the next two years and a half I think,then everything back to normal.I also will predict when new real government in place that they will want to attract money again,so I expect some new visa easies to come,don;t understand me wrong,I know everybody hopes but not thinks so,I say it will happen,but for sure with more control,they do not want us to leave......

[davidjtayler]

I don't see how anyone can say it's subjective or gray or close as to whether things in Thailand have improved over the last 20 years. By almost any standard life has gotten dramatically better for the majority of Thais, the economically poor included.

Who cares if foreigners who are in Thailand for cheap sex don't find it as affordable as before. Thailand is wise, in my view, to steer those folks toward the airport and off to the PI or wherever it's still dirt cheap to rent people for sex. And maybe those folks should consider Bangladesh or India, in some slum somewhere.

Funny to see people talk about the PI. Have been going to both places for about 20 years. Only one of the two still has an international airport terminal with plastic lettered-signs (you know, the type you change by hand), and regularly has to have guys with buckets in the restroom to flush the toilets. Sad, really.

Youve gone a little astray here Mr D as the OPs question ... Is Thailand Going Down In Flames?, (As a viable destination for foreigners)

As can be seen from the wide varience of responses here it seems to be a very subjective topic dependent on each individuals personal situation and outlook here.

[ThaiGoon]

It hasn't. It gets worse every day. Almost everybody down south expects a religious/ethnic war between the communities.

Thanks 007.

[jasreeve17]

The situation in the South appears to have stabilized somewhat.

It hasn't. It gets worse every day. Almost everybody down south expects a religious/ethnic war between the communities.

A couple of posters mentioned the South or "border areas are safe" (similar wording, anyway). I do agree with Colpyat that these statements are simply not correct. - I "know" that by just reading the press that's allowed to get out. I hate to think how bad things really are down there.

[meman]

locals are getting worse at english (and I don't mean the bargirls now, I mean in banks, customer service and so on), etc etc

During my 8 years here now,

eight years and YOU don't speak THEIR language??? thats plain lazy and disrespectful

[bendix]

Yes, I think we get the point david ;-)

OK, can we all agree on at least one point? The OP is a woos for leaving after the coup :-)

[cdnvic]

I don't think there's anything wrong with airing your misgivings and concerns about Thailand, nor spelling out honestly what your issues with it are. The thing is, every time there's a change in visa regs, drinking hours, or alcohol content in Singha you get an avalanche of chicken littles running around saying the sky is falling and that the time of mass-exodus is at hand. (Yet the number of expats climb every year).

I certainly don't follow the love it or leave it philosophy, but the "calm down and stop screaming like a hysterical housewife" philosophy is certainly worth consideration.

I have to say for the most part this is the most civilized thread on the subject in awhile.

To those who do leave I wish them luck. Maybe in 10 years they'll be looked upon as pioneers and will be trying to calm down posters in Philippine and Cambodian forums that things are fine and there's no need to panic and run off to Papua New Guinea.

Edited April 4, 2007 by cdnvic

[Hobox]

Poor, poor, little boy. How dare the subservient locals let their English skills slip.

When my daughter's teacher have to ask her 8 year old students for help to talk english to a parent I think it speaks for itself. You still don't get my point, I can get by in a bank, but the regular foreign visitor can't, and I though this thread were about them.

Sadly it's almost impossible to have opinions here and talk about self experienced events without being ridiculed by the guys who-know-it-all-just-got-here-speaks-perfect-thai.

During my years down here the only two lessons I really learnt is that I know nothing about Thailand and will never understand it and secondly everyone who says they know, know nothing.

[ilyushin]

Thailand is going through troubled times, but I read this about lots of other places in the world. So, what new?

Thailand is in a state of flux at the moment. Country just got screwed by the previous admin, now a plaster to hold things together until repairs are made along with other issues.

Foreigners (mostly) complaining about the negative state of Thailand has always been crap. It is good only when it goes their way. Thailand has been down a hard and rocky road over the past few decades. I know, I was here. Were you?

Time will show the results, improvements, crisis of the current situation in coming months and years so don't push it any harder. If you have any reservations about Thailand, leave and take your negative press too.

[Wolfie]

During my years down here the only two lessons I really learnt is that I know nothing about Thailand and will never understand it and secondly everyone who says they know, know nothing.

Yep, similar lessons to the ones i learnt when i got here... i still stand by them even today