20/4 Fasting

[NotYourBusiness]

On 2/20/2020 at 3:41 PM, UbonThani said:

It varies.

 

Typical dinners

 -Medium steak, 3 eggs, cheese and butter

 

-Can of tuna, 2 eggs, cheese and butter, mussells

 

-4 or 5 Sausages, 3 eggs, cheese and butter

 

Dont count it really. Dont need too. Eat til satisfied.

 

Eat carbs somedays maybe a dragonfruit or pear.

 

Some junk on weekends.

 

Morning is salt, water and black coffee. Lunch is water.

 

Try to eat betwen 4.30 and 6.30.

 

 

 

 

The highlighted sentences are the only things that matter for me. I'm speaking now about calories and weight gain, not about nutritional balance.

[NotYourBusiness]

15 hours ago, UbonThani said:

How true is that story?

 

Did anyone do blood work?

 

Without protein he would have lost strength.

Better to watch the video, all the info is there. But it is well known that people fasting are not hungry (after the first two or three days). Why is that?

[UbonThani]

Insulin

Fat drives energy

 

Eating slows you down.

[UbonThani]

31 minutes ago, NotYourBusiness said:

Better to watch the video, all the info is there. But it is well known that people fasting are not hungry (after the first two or three days). Why is that?

The guy looked sick and weak. Didn't get all the info.

[stephenterry]

2 hours ago, UbonThani said:

How true is that story?

 

Did anyone do blood work?

 

Without protein he would have lost strength.

He consumed a multivitamin supplement every day. 

[stephenterry]

3 hours ago, NotYourBusiness said:

@stephenterryThank you for your opinion, but then please explain why the guy on the one year fast was not hungry the whole time (except for the first days). He obviously wasn't getting any nutrients, whole plant based or not. And furthermore, he was under doctor supervision and he was not suffering from malnutrition, even when fat and not eating for over one year. Apologies, your theory has some holes.

You're cherry-picking one fat guy - which was, if factual, an extreme study - whereas my 'nutrition theory' is proven scientific fact - apart from being common-sense, which is lacking somewhat.

 

I have already explained why the fat guy wouldn't feel hungry on an extended fast because the body is in a ketogenic state and consuming stored fat as an alternative energy source - plus he took multivitamin capsules to cover the nutrients lacking, therefore no brain hunger messages needed.   

[stephenterry]

On 2/21/2020 at 6:41 AM, UbonThani said:

It varies.

 

Typical dinners

 -Medium steak, 3 eggs, cheese and butter

 

-Can of tuna, 2 eggs, cheese and butter, mussells

 

-4 or 5 Sausages, 3 eggs, cheese and butter

 

Dont count it really. Dont need too. Eat til satisfied.

 

Eat carbs somedays maybe a dragonfruit or pear.

 

Some junk on weekends.

 

Morning is salt, water and black coffee. Lunch is water.

 

Try to eat betwen 4.30 and 6.30.

 

 

 

 

Well it's your choice of how you live and die - probably from arterial blockage if you maintain that diet. As they say here, 'Up to you'.

[Tayaout]

19 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Well it's your choice of how you live and die - probably from arterial blockage if you maintain that diet. As they say here, 'Up to you'.

"Eat less saturated fat: that has been the take-home message from the U.S. government for the past 30 years. But while Americans have dutifully reduced the percentage of daily calories from saturated fat since 1970, the obesity rate during that time has more than doubled, diabetes has tripled, and heart disease is still the country’s biggest killer. Now a spate of new research, including a meta-analysis of nearly two dozen studies, suggests a reason why: investigators may have picked the wrong culprit. Processed carbohydrates, which many Americans eat today in place of fat, may increase the risk of obesity, diabetes and heart disease more than fat does—a finding that has serious implications for new dietary guidelines expected this year."

 

"In March the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition published a meta-analysis—which combines data from several studies—that compared the reported daily food intake of nearly 350,000 people against their risk of developing cardiovascular disease over a period of five to 23 years. The analysis, overseen by Ronald M. Krauss, director of atherosclerosis research at the Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, found no association between the amount of saturated fat consumed and the risk of heart disease."

 

"Although the subjects on the low-carb diet ate the most saturated fat, they ended up with the healthiest ratio of HDL to LDL cholesterol and lost twice as much weight as their low-fat-eating counterparts." 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbs-against-cardio/

 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Tayaout

[stephenterry]

49 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

Ronald M. Krauss, director of atherosclerosis research at the Children’s Hospital Oakland Research Institute, found no association between the amount of saturated fat consumed and the risk of heart disease."

 

There had been no comprehensive comparison of the effects of red meat, white meat and non-meat proteins on blood cholesterol until now, Krauss said. Non-meat proteins such as vegetables, dairy, and legumes, such as beans, show the best cholesterol benefit, he said.

"Our results indicate that current advice to restrict red meat and not white meat should not be based only on their effects on blood cholesterol," Krauss said. "Indeed, other effects of red meat consumption could contribute to heart disease, and these effects should be explored in more detail in an effort to improve health."

[Tayaout]

21 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

 

There had been no comprehensive comparison of the effects of red meat, white meat and non-meat proteins on blood cholesterol until now, Krauss said. Non-meat proteins such as vegetables, dairy, and legumes, such as beans, show the best cholesterol benefit, he said.

"Our results indicate that current advice to restrict red meat and not white meat should not be based only on their effects on blood cholesterol," Krauss said. "Indeed, other effects of red meat consumption could contribute to heart disease, and these effects should be explored in more detail in an effort to improve health."

He said "could" because there is no solid double blind study yet. If you take the time to watch this video he explain why there is no definitive study that prove that meat is bad yet. In fact most countries have reduced their intake of meat while diseases like obesity and hearth diseases are increasing. 

 

 

Edited February 23, 2020 by Tayaout

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

He said "could" because there is no solid double blind study yet. If you take the time to watch this video he explain why there is no definitive study that prove that meat is bad yet. In fact most countries have reduced their intake of meat while diseases like obesity and hearth diseases are increasing. 

I'm very wary of this doctor's opinion, which is normally contentious in that he has his own opinion that doesn't align with latest scientific results and the experience of leading cardiologists.  In reality, it's impossible to link intake of meat to anything other than correlation, owing to two main factors: -

 

 - lengthy and costly study of humans, albeit the China Study Solution by Colin T Campbell is a leading evidence based outcome that meat products could lead to disease. See also, cardiologist Esselstyn's conclusions.

 

 - that arterial heart disease, and other serious diseases like strokes and cancer, could take decades to materialise - particularly also depending on the subjects' lifestyle changes. 

 

However, what is abundantly clear from patients of cardiologists that their arterial heart plaque blockages have been reversed by eliminating animal products as well as junk processed foods, and by following a strict Whole Food Plant Based diet.

 

In other words a WFPB nutrition regime is evidence-linked and proven to be beneficial to heart health, while it has not been ascertained whether a carnivore diet only would replicate the benefits. The unanswerable question is, does junk food and drinks, and not animal products, actually cause arterial heart disease? Whether anyone willing to consume junk foods and drinks for decades is another story...

 

 

 

 

[FritsSikkink]

On ‎2‎/‎15‎/‎2020 at 8:19 AM, Tayaout said:

I do the same for over a year now. I usually drink coffee with butter in the morning. Bone broth around 11h then main meal 1-2h later. 

 

It's much more healthy than eating the standard 6 meals a day since it promotes autophagy. However you will notice that your weight loss with plateau pretty soon. 

 

 

 

 

standard 6 meals a day ????

[UbonThani]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

 

There had been no comprehensive comparison of the effects of red meat, white meat and non-meat proteins on blood cholesterol until now, Krauss said. Non-meat proteins such as vegetables, dairy, and legumes, such as beans, show the best cholesterol benefit, he said.

"Our results indicate that current advice to restrict red meat and not white meat should not be based only on their effects on blood cholesterol," Krauss said. "Indeed, other effects of red meat consumption could contribute to heart disease, and these effects should be explored in more detail in an effort to improve health."

High cholesterol people live longer. We knew this a few years ago.

 

The cholesterol scam got busted.

[rumak]

On 2/16/2020 at 3:14 PM, Tayaout said:

experts are far from forming a consensus. It depends a lot of the situation and there is no 1 size fit all. 

hope you don't mind if I quote you.    this pretty much sums up MY opinion when reading threads on diet, exercise,  what type of girl is beautiful,  or how one should live to be the happiest.

By following that simple rule of thumb I save myself all the stress of getting into heated "discussions"  about which way is right . 

Ahhh,   no stress.    Now that feels goooood !

[UbonThani]

40 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I'm very wary of this doctor's opinion, which is normally contentious in that he has his own opinion that doesn't align with latest scientific results and the experience of leading cardiologists.  In reality, it's impossible to link intake of meat to anything other than correlation, owing to two main factors: -

 

 - lengthy and costly study of humans, albeit the China Study Solution by Colin T Campbell is a leading evidence based outcome that meat products could lead to disease. See also, cardiologist Esselstyn's conclusions.

 

 - that arterial heart disease, and other serious diseases like strokes and cancer, could take decades to materialise - particularly also depending on the subjects' lifestyle changes. 

 

However, what is abundantly clear from patients of cardiologists that their arterial heart plaque blockages have been reversed by eliminating animal products as well as junk processed foods, and by following a strict Whole Food Plant Based diet.

 

In other words a WFPB nutrition regime is evidence-linked and proven to be beneficial to heart health, while it has not been ascertained whether a carnivore diet only would replicate the benefits. The unanswerable question is, does junk food and drinks, and not animal products, actually cause arterial heart disease? Whether anyone willing to consume junk foods and drinks for decades is another story...

 

 

 

 

Nonsense. Read some history. Traditional people on 90% animal products had very very low rates of heart disease. It's a modern high carb disease.

[UbonThani]

 The Maasai are a pastoralist tribe living in Kenya and Northern Tanzania. Their traditional diet consists almost entirely of milk, meat, and blood. Two thirds of their calories come from fat, and they consume 600 - 2000 mg of cholesterol a day. To put that number in perspective, the American Heart Association recommends consuming under 300 mg of cholesterol a day.__ In spite of a high fat, high cholesterol diet, the Maasai have low rates of diseases typically associated with such diets.__

[UbonThani]

1 hour ago, Tayaout said:

he explain why there is no definitive study that prove that meat is bad yet.

They wasted 50 years trying to prove it was bad. It's very good for you. 50 years of carb companies funding studies cause there is more $ in carbs yet they still couldnt prove it

[UbonThani]

 

Recently, evidence emerged that the sugar industry had paid scientists in the 1960s to implicate saturated fat, and not sugar, as a cause for heart disease. While the revelations are stunning, food industry funding of nutrition research is more common than consumers may realize.

How lobbyists made breakfast 'the most important meal of the day'

Read more

New York University nutrition professor Marion Nestle began informally tracking studies funded by food and beverage companies, as well as trade groups, in 2015. Her research uncovered 168 such studies in that year alone, and of those, 156 showed biased results that favored the sponsor’s interests, she told the Guardian.

[UbonThani]

 

The very high intake of total and saturated fat did not increase the calculated risk of cardiovascular diseases," says professor and cardiologist Ottar Nygård who contributed to the study.

"Participants on the very-high-fat diet also had substantial improvements in several important cardiometabolic risk factors, such as ectopic fat storage, blood pressure, blood lipids (triglycerides), insulin and blood sugar."

[stephenterry]

19 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Nonsense. Read some history. Traditional people on 90% animal products had very very low rates of heart disease. It's a modern high carb disease.

It's science that is worth reading - not history. And sorry, but your assertions are not factual. The Inuits (Alaska) whose meat consumption was around the 90% consumption, had a high rate of early mortality - statistically way above the Canadian norm.  Eat like them and it's a fast track to an early grave.

 

As for high carbs causing early mortality that's also a myth  - it's the modern junk food (which are carbs)  that accelerates serious diseases. Traditional diets of predominantly plant based carbs are scientifically evidenced to be beneficial for health. That's been factual for decades - read up on it.

 

To be crystal, it's your choice what you choose to believe and consume - I really couldn't care less.  

 

[UbonThani]

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

It's science that is worth reading - not history. And sorry, but your assertions are not factual. The Inuits (Alaska) whose meat consumption was around the 90% consumption, had a high rate of early mortality - statistically way above the Canadian norm.  Eat like them and it's a fast track to an early grave.

 

As for high carbs causing early mortality that's also a myth  - it's the modern junk food (which are carbs)  that accelerates serious diseases. Traditional diets of predominantly plant based carbs are scientifically evidenced to be beneficial for health. That's been factual for decades - read up on it.

 

To be crystal, it's your choice what you choose to believe and consume - I really couldn't care less.  

 

No science in that post. Carbs are carbs.

 

Of course people living in the middle of nowhere didnt live to 100. They had no vaccines, hospitals etc. Doesnt mean they werent healthy.

 

Modern people live for 85 years despite being sick for the last 40 years.

 

Traditional people had 1/10th the rate of heart disease.

 

Study history and science not the biased stuff funded by big sugar.

 

 

[UbonThani]

15 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

predominantly plant based carbs are scientifically evidenced to be beneficial for health.

Yet Hong Kong people live the longest and are no 1 meat eaters.

 

 

[stephenterry]

3 hours ago, UbonThani said:

Yet Hong Kong people live the longest and are no 1 meat eaters.

 

 

I'm not disputing that - and what you choose to consume is up to you.  What stats don't reveal is whether it's a healthier regime. For example, with today's modern society meds, longevity could be extended, but at what cost to health?  The major cause of death in HK are Cancers, in the US it's heart disease - see below for possible causes:

 

• Farm animals are given…
  • Growth hormones so they produce a greater profit
  • Antibiotics and other drugs so they can survive their short lives
  • Sprayed with pesticides
  • Enforced pregnancy to produce milk. 

[Tayaout]

10 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I'm not disputing that - and what you choose to consume is up to you.  What stats don't reveal is whether it's a healthier regime. For example, with today's modern society meds, longevity could be extended, but at what cost to health?  The major cause of death in HK are Cancers, in the US it's heart disease - see below for possible causes:

 

• Farm animals are given…
  • Growth hormones so they produce a greater profit
  • Antibiotics and other drugs so they can survive their short lives
  • Sprayed with pesticides
  • Enforced pregnancy to produce milk. 

I don't disagree with your last points but it's also shared with plants agricultures. For this reason, I pay more for my meat or know and visit the farmer and check what the animals are eating. I also grow most of my vegetables because there is no organic farmer in my area and I enjoy doing it. 

 

Funnily enough today, I stumbled upon keto advocate that admit it's possible to improve health markers via a plant based diet. The main issue is processed food. But the second video still raise concern over the high Insuline level from a high carbs diet. 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tayaout

[stephenterry]

37 minutes ago, Tayaout said:

I don't disagree with your last points but it's also shared with plants agricultures. For this reason, I pay more for my meat or know and visit the farmer and check what the animals are eating. I also grow most of my vegetables because there is no organic farmer in my area and I enjoy doing it. 

 

Funnily enough today, I stumbled upon keto advocate that admit it's possible to improve health markers via a plant based diet. The main issue is processed food. But the second video still raise concern over the high Insuline level from a high carbs diet. 

What is proven fact is that a Plant Based diet does reverse disease. While eating meat has not been proven to mirror that. In fact, it hasn't been proven to be a necessary part of any human diet, at all. More so, owing to the lack of any fibre in meat, there is a higher risk of colon cancer, unless mitigated by also eating fibre rich plant based foods. That's what's keeping meat eaters healthy.

 

As for the video, he's quite correct in stating that inflammation is the major causation of arterial plaque, not high cholesterol, per se. However, I'm convinced that whole plant based carbs (not processed junk foods he described) do not harm health, and, more to the point, help reverse Type 2 diabetes and mitigate the effects of Type 1 diabetes. 

 

Finally, i'm quite sad that you didn't also watch one of your animals being slaughtered to feed you. It could have made a difference to how you view the morality of it.  

 

 

 

[Tayaout]

4 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

What is proven fact is that a Plant Based diet does reverse disease. While eating meat has not been proven to mirror that. In fact, it hasn't been proven to be a necessary part of any human diet, at all. More so, owing to the lack of any fibre in meat, there is a higher risk of colon cancer, unless mitigated by also eating fibre rich plant based foods. That's what's keeping meat eaters healthy.

 

As for the video, he's quite correct in stating that inflammation is the major causation of arterial plaque, not high cholesterol, per se. However, I'm convinced that whole plant based carbs (not processed junk foods he described) do not harm health, and, more to the point, help reverse Type 2 diabetes and mitigate the effects of Type 1 diabetes. 

 

Finally, i'm quite sad that you didn't also watch one of your animals being slaughtered to feed you. It could have made a difference to how you view the morality of it.  

 

 

 

I did slaughter smaller animals for food and want to learn how to butcher bigger animals like cow but I don't have the tools and the knowledge. I will be there when the farmer will prepare the beef that I bought from him to learn how he do it. I was an ethical vegetarian for 3 years and can understand but that's not for me and I don't have issue with butchering myself or paying the correct price for non factory farmed meat. 

[UbonThani]

6 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It's science that is worth reading - not history. And sorry, but your assertions are not factual. The Inuits (Alaska) whose meat consumption was around the 90% consumption, had a high rate of early mortality - statistically way above the Canadian norm.  Eat like them and it's a fast track to an early grave.

 

As for high carbs causing early mortality that's also a myth  - it's the modern junk food (which are carbs)  that accelerates serious diseases. Traditional diets of predominantly plant based carbs are scientifically evidenced to be beneficial for health. That's been factual for decades - read up on it.

 

To be crystal, it's your choice what you choose to believe and consume - I really couldn't care less.  

 

You are making up stuff.

[UbonThani]

 On July 13, 1805, Clark wrote: We eat an emensity of meat; it requires 4 deer, or an elk and a deer, or one buffaloe to supply us plentifully 24 hours. When wild game was plentiful, each man consumed up to 9 pounds of meat in one day. Thats a lot of protein! Meat was vital to their diet; it helped to fill their hungry bellies and gave them the strength required to pull canoes and carry heavy loads. The types of meat that were eaten also served as a reflection of the season, terrain and climate they encountered. Bison and deer were prominent during the crossing of the Great Plains, while salmon and a starchy tuber known as wapato kept them nourished as they entered territory west of the Rocky Mountains. Fish was eaten in abundance, a favorite being the eulachon, or candlefish, which Lewis claimed to be superior to any fish he had ever tasted. At Fort Clatsop, elk was in large supply. It was served boiled, dried and roasted for breakfast, lunch and dinner. During their journey, Lewis, Clark and their fellow travelers extracted salt from seawater by way of evaporation through boiling. Salt was used as a flavor enhancer, but it was also essential in preserving meat; it helped to give their perishable meat supply a longer shelf life.

[UbonThani]

4 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

The Inuits (Alaska) whose meat consumption was around the 90% consumption, had a high rate of early mortality - statistically way above the Canadian norm.

You are using modern figures. Chalk and cheese and bad science.

 

Average Canadians have far greater access to modern medicine and live easy lives.

 

Hong Kong people live the longest as of 2020 and eat the most meat so using modern data meat wins.

 

Learn some science.

Edited February 24, 2020 by UbonThani

[Tayaout]

13 minutes ago, UbonThani said:

You are using modern figures. Chalk and cheese and bad science.

 

Average Canadians have far greater access to modern medicine.

 

Hong Kong people live the longest as of 2020 and eat the most meat so using modern data meat wins.

 

Learn some science.

Depending on when the study was done (hard to tell since he never post the link to the study) it might be biased. I went in northern Canada and their current diet is awful. Only the cheapest processed craps is available because everything is expensive and they have high rate of alcoholism and drug addiction. My uncle who is dentist told me Inuit did not have tooth decay until they started eating a modern diet. 

Edited February 24, 2020 by Tayaout