'glut' Of Properties

[pepi1]

I am planning on purchasing a house in the Mabprachan area. There appears, suddenly to be many properties on the market and I mean a lot.

Any reason for this?

Cheers

[monty]

Always have been a lot of properties available over here, only now there are no buyers courtesy of the current uncertainty on how to go about owning land/house in a legal and safe way...

[Mobi]

There is so much obfuscation generated by vested interests that is often very difficult to know exactly what is going on in the housing market and the Thai economy in general.

Hardly a day goes by when you don 't read in the Pattaya or National business press about pronouncements from people involved and / or connected with the property business to the effect that apart from a few minor glitches, that it's business as normal, and houses and condos are selling like hot cakes.

In a similar way, anyone and everyone connected with the travel and tour business will assure you that there is no drop in tourist numbers and farangs are continuing to flock to Thailand's shores.

Well, it would not be in their interests to say anything different, would it?

To show the other side of the coin, here an extract of a post made yesterday in the general forum:

Without being an expert on Thai tourism I will tell you anyway, that yesterday I spoke with 2 owners of real estate companies here in Pattaya, and they told me that things have ground to an almost dead stop over the last many months, they simply can not sell houses, so according to them it is not only low income people that choose to leave( if that is the case?), but also people with money to spend that now choose not to spend them here in Thailand.

I believe that things like this have a tendency to spiral out of control, dictatorship, low growth rate, stop from outside investors in the big business, bad press in the west, insurgency in the south, tsunami the list is long and every bit of it is being vigorously reported at least in the western country I come from, and I know my own people well enough to know that these things will instantly put a lot of people of coming here.

A subject like this is also very sensitive for a lot of people, and I clearly sense this in some of the posts, to some people with investments in this country, be it property or something else, the mere mentioning of that things might go sour for a while is almost a crime, and they react quite strongly, but I fear they are not being objective. on my estate a house was just sold with a 50% loss 2,5 mill. bath, and there are on a 2 year old estate already several houses for sale and several for rent out off only 36 houses all in all, and you have to believe when I tell you that it is a very nice estate well placed and well kept.

Please don't slaughter me, but in my purely personal opinion, Thailand is rapidly heading for a low spell that will put Thailand several years back compared to the economic growth in the surrounding nations.

To me, it seems inconceivable that it's 'business as usual' in the property business after all the visa crack downs, land crack downs and a general anti - farang sentiment that has grown up over the past few months. It must be having an effect on property sales, despite the best efforts of sharp talking agents.

[Tarqin]

This is a very emotive issue as those who have bought houses are loathe to admit that they might lose their money and the sales 'professionals' are all staring down the barrel of bankruptcy but the truth is that the Pattaya property market has stopped dead.

For the daring who can find a seller who must sell there is obvious scope for a bargain but most owners for whatever reason are not compromising on price and the property is stuck on the market. As a frequent visitor of property websites I can tell you that some of the properties have been on the market for three years plus.

Not a time to buy and most assuredly not a time to buy off plan.

On the wider point I think Thailand is heading for an almighty crash. Good for me but I am aware just how many poor people will get destroyed one again by the ###### fool moves made by the Bangkok elite.

[obsession]

There is so much obfuscation generated by vested interests that is often very difficult to know exactly what is going on in the housing market and the Thai economy in general.

Hardly a day goes by when you don 't read in the Pattaya or National business press about pronouncements from people involved and / or connected with the property business to the effect that apart from a few minor glitches, that it's business as normal, and houses and condos are selling like hot cakes.

In a similar way, anyone and everyone connected with the travel and tour business will assure you that there is no drop in tourist numbers and farangs are continuing to flock to Thailand's shores.

Well, it would not be in their interests to say anything different, would it?

To show the other side of the coin, here an extract of a post made yesterday in the general forum:

Without being an expert on Thai tourism I will tell you anyway, that yesterday I spoke with 2 owners of real estate companies here in Pattaya, and they told me that things have ground to an almost dead stop over the last many months, they simply can not sell houses, so according to them it is not only low income people that choose to leave( if that is the case?), but also people with money to spend that now choose not to spend them here in Thailand.

I believe that things like this have a tendency to spiral out of control, dictatorship, low growth rate, stop from outside investors in the big business, bad press in the west, insurgency in the south, tsunami the list is long and every bit of it is being vigorously reported at least in the western country I come from, and I know my own people well enough to know that these things will instantly put a lot of people of coming here.

A subject like this is also very sensitive for a lot of people, and I clearly sense this in some of the posts, to some people with investments in this country, be it property or something else, the mere mentioning of that things might go sour for a while is almost a crime, and they react quite strongly, but I fear they are not being objective. on my estate a house was just sold with a 50% loss 2,5 mill. bath, and there are on a 2 year old estate already several houses for sale and several for rent out off only 36 houses all in all, and you have to believe when I tell you that it is a very nice estate well placed and well kept.

Please don't slaughter me, but in my purely personal opinion, Thailand is rapidly heading for a low spell that will put Thailand several years back compared to the economic growth in the surrounding nations.

To me, it seems inconceivable that it's 'business as usual' in the property business after all the visa crack downs, land crack downs and a general anti - farang sentiment that has grown up over the past few months. It must be having an effect on property sales, despite the best efforts of sharp talking agents.

I would like to read that thread. What was the title , thanks.

Property in Pattaya was overprised anyway.It was getting ridiculous. Jomtien has so much empty land, why would anyone invest and pay top dollar. A new building adds hundreds of units onto the market. How can your property appreciate in the long term. They have enough land to keep building for years to come adding thousands of units in a country its getting difficult to stay in. I can understand buying to retire in, but not buying to invest.

[naklang]

I always thought the place was a dirty hole anyway. Now that it's been invaded by all manner of Russian mafiosos and their ilk, not a place to be for anyone except them. Won't be long until all the girls themselves get fed up and move to better venues. Most of the best girls gave up on Pattaya long ago and stick with the Japs in Bangkok (3", 3 minutes, 3000 baht).

[Naam]

As a frequent visitor of property websites I can tell you that some of the properties have been on the market for three years plus.

perhaps it's worthwhile to mention that most of the sellers have wet dreams as far as the prices they demand. in 2004 we were considering to buy a home in the top price range. even though some of the owners were willing to reduce their demands up to 20% it turned out that building our own home was still considerably cheaper than the last negotiated price.

on top of that we had the advantage of realizing our very own design, floorplan, colours, etc. and don't have to deal with nonsensical architecture and peasant style interior designs.

[sattahip]

I also have no wish to offend but find it strange Maprachan has become so developed. This is a seaside resort and Mabrachan certainly is not close to the sea. The roads to the area are poor and have been for years. The area's proximity to the highway to Bangkok would have little appeal to farang buyers and that lake is really a pond and an intermittent one at that. My guess is that temperatures in Maprachan are degrees above those in seaside areas and that dust is a problem in the dry season.

I suppose it was the inexpensive land that was the attraction with buyers using their cash to build big. I see many ads for 5/6 bed and bath places. hel_l what for? A new family, a guesthouse or just I can afford it so I will.

That leads on to real cost versus developer cost. I am building a 200 sqm single storey house on land by the beach at Ban Amphur. Land cost 11000 per tarang wah and architect designed house will cost B3200,000 fully complete and furnished rather luxuriously. Total B4700000. So where do those Jomtien villa prices come from especially when they are so poorly built. Would you believe kitchen tiles in the pools of one "premier" estate.

The Pattaya area remains attractive. Good properties will move. Please don't forget the driving economic forces here are Thai not farang.

[monty]

I also have no wish to offend but find it strange Maprachan has become so developed. This is a seaside resort and Mabrachan certainly is not close to the sea. The roads to the area are poor and have been for years. The area's proximity to the highway to Bangkok would have little appeal to farang buyers and that lake is really a pond and an intermittent one at that. My guess is that temperatures in Maprachan are degrees above those in seaside areas and that dust is a problem in the dry season.

Well, each to their own I guess

I'm still in Pattaya in less then 20 minutes, so maybe there's quite some people just wanting to live within 20 minutes of a "Beach side resort" but don't want to live in it!

And FYI, the lake is not a puddle anymore, we're right at the end of the dry season and the level didn't even drop under 80% of maximum capacity. Pipelines connecting it to the bang kapong river and other reservoirs are in place and operating.

And yes, indeed quite a lot of the houses are bigger, but most of them owning like to live big. To be honest, building a house on a plot of land hardly bigger then the house itself holds no appeal for me.

And to the popularity of the Mabprachan area, I built a hotel there, 20 rooms, and within 6 months of operating the need has arisen to expand the capacity. So now at the end of the month phase two will be completed bringing the rooms to 31!

Simply realize that a lot of people are working here, and for them shaving 20 minutes of their daily commuting morning and evening holds a very big appeal!

But yes the housing market (sales anyway) is dead thanks to the current climate. Rentals are going strong though, all those working expats need a place to sleep, military government or not!

[Mobi]

I also have no wish to offend but find it strange Maprachan has become so developed. This is a seaside resort and Mabrachan certainly is not close to the sea. The roads to the area are poor and have been for years. The area's proximity to the highway to Bangkok would have little appeal to farang buyers and that lake is really a pond and an intermittent one at that. My guess is that temperatures in Maprachan are degrees above those in seaside areas and that dust is a problem in the dry season.

I suppose it was the inexpensive land that was the attraction with buyers using their cash to build big. I see many ads for 5/6 bed and bath places. hel_l what for? A new family, a guesthouse or just I can afford it so I will.

That leads on to real cost versus developer cost. I am building a 200 sqm single storey house on land by the beach at Ban Amphur. Land cost 11000 per tarang wah and architect designed house will cost B3200,000 fully complete and furnished rather luxuriously. Total B4700000. So where do those Jomtien villa prices come from especially when they are so poorly built. Would you believe kitchen tiles in the pools of one "premier" estate.

The Pattaya area remains attractive. Good properties will move. Please don't forget the driving economic forces here are Thai not farang.

We've been through all this a few times before.

The water levels were down in the 2005 drought, but is now still pretty much full of water and is absolutely massive. I don't know where you went, and I couldn't give you the size, but to call it a pond is just totally ridiculous - it takes a good ten minutes to drive around it at speed. In fact I read the other day, that it is the main water supply for the whole Pattaya area, and incredibly, they now actual feed water into it from other sources to keep it topped up.

If you'd been anywhere near Mabprachan in the past 6 months, you would know that the lake is being extensively landscaped, is popular for boating, canoeing, fishing, and just plain picnicking, and the sunsets there are often quite breath taking.

The roads in the area are undergoing a major transformation, with the road from Pong to through to Sukhumvit being widened into a 4 lane road.

As for temperatures - I can assure you that it is the other way round. Average temps are several degrees cooler here than than are on the coast, we have a lot more refreshing rain, (probably due to the proximity of the nearby hills where most of Pattaya's precipitations emerge from) and the mornings and evenings are a delight - even at this time of year.

It is without doubt an up and coming area, and offers a very different alternative, and peaceful way of life to for the farangs and large numbers of families who have moved to the area. My only concern is that one day the lake will become over developed.

No, you didn't offend me, but come and take a look and get your facts straight.

Bang Sarae is beautiful, and you have the sea. We at Mabprachan have the advantage of the nearby Pattaya/Rayong high way, which, when the road widening is finished, will whisk you to the airport in 45 minutes, and to central Bangkok in just over the hour. You'll never do those kind of times from Bang Sarae.

At the end of the day it's horses for courses, and I, and many other residents of the area are very happy here.

Have a good life in your new home.

[Mobi]

I always thought the place was a dirty hole anyway. Now that it's been invaded by all manner of Russian mafiosos and their ilk, not a place to be for anyone except them. Won't be long until all the girls themselves get fed up and move to better venues. Most of the best girls gave up on Pattaya long ago and stick with the Japs in Bangkok (3", 3 minutes, 3000 baht).

Wow!!

What a breathtakingly erudite first post.

Well done - it aught to be pinned forever to show prospective members what mighty wit and incisive, reasoned debate can be proffered by even the newest amongst us.

Congratulations and welcome.

May we look forward to many years of intellectually stimulating posts from a true professional.

[Mobi]

I would like to read that thread. What was the title , thanks.

"Thailand is down...."

What else?

[thaimate]

about a year and a half ago we rented a house advertised at 40000 bht for 30000 bht .after a year to keep us renting it was reduced to 28000,our landlady is a well educated thai and realises how diffecult things are at present ,there are still houses on our very nice estate unoccupied after 3 years and no wonder looking at the prices asked! to give some idea just outside the estate the builder has just finished 12 more houses all sold for between 3.5 and 3.8 mill ,one is back on the market at 6.5 mill 3 months later . the chances of selling it are nill .

according to an estate agent friend the house property market is dead he hasnt sold a house for 6 months ,some condos are selling if they are in the right location others that are not ,forget it . having been an estate agant years ago in england as far as i can see house prices all over pattaya are well overpriced ,many that i looked at years ago are still for sale ,just in worse condition.

the only answer is if people reduce prices and from what i have seen of thailand over the last 17 years this is about as likely as snow next month in pattaya.

dont know the answer but i wouldnt buy at the moment and i have a wife that i have been married to for many many years and would have no problem in putting it in her name.

[expatgaz]

I've lived in / around Pattaya Jomtien for 10 years so believe I can voice a pretty accurate account.Property in general at present is not moving,this is for obvious reasons.However people who are trying to sell are being very stuborn over their price.Infact 90% vastly overpriced.1 in a million will sell at their prices.If all sellers where realistic and reduced by at least 50% then it would give a more accurate amount.As for location,Patts & Jomtien for me is loosing its appeal.Out by the reservoir is looking a better option.Infact Mobi's place is in a great location and is a truelly wonderful place.He is perfectly correct on the easy access to BKK,Airport,Rayong highway etc.International schools near by,close to world class golf and still only 20 minutes from the nitelife if required.Iam 99% sure I'll live in this same area once suitable land at the right price is available.Noticed how the "smog"around Pratumnak hill is getting more like BKK everyday ???

On the other hand Bang Saray /Sattahip has superb views but the drive to BKK an awful lot longer.

The truest statement made is horses for courses.

EPG.

[Gary A]

Some people seem to be quite happy in that area. As far as my own opinion, it is definitely on the wrong side of Sukhumvit and getting to Pattaya or Jomtien means taking your life in you own hands navigating the horrendous traffic on that cursed highway. The thieves in that area are quite adept of breaking into single family dwellings particularly if they know the house belongs to a farang. You have the choice of making it into a fortress or hiring a house sitter if you choose to go anywhere.

I rented a nice two bedroom house just outside of Bangkok and it was broken into twice. They got a lot of sentimental things that were impossible to replace the first break in and not much the second time because there wasn't much left of any value that could be easily carried out. That house was in a gated village with 24/7 security guards.

Add to that, the fact that you can't own the home makes a condo in your name on the correct side of the highway look pretty good. Fortunately I never fell for the company scam to own a house and if I would have, I'd certainly be looking to dump it as soon as I possibly could. I came to Thailand to retire, relax and not have any hassles in my life now or ever.

[thebounder]

Contrary to what some people are suggesting, the journey from Bang Saray to Bangkok is really quite painless. There is no need to go anywhere near Pattaya. Instead, you drive on fast, quiet roads out to 331 (which basically runs parallel to Sukhumvit 15 kms to the east). It is a very good, very quiet road on which you can move very quickly. When you meet highway 36, you turn left and in about 5 kms turn right onto Highway 7 (at the junction near the Regent's school). If the traffic is clear it takes me an average of about an hour and a half into Bangkok (early one saturday morning with virtually no traffic I made it to Rajpreuk Golf Club, near the Don Muang airport in an hour and ten minutes). It takes me about 20 minutes to get onto Highway 7, which is probably about 15 minutes more than someone living around Mabrachan, which is hardly reason enough to move there, unless perhaps you are commuting every day. It is actually quicker to Bangkok from my home in Bang Saray than from my office in Jomtien, a conseqence of the quantity of traffic as the actual distance (using the 331 route from BS) is virtually the same.

[Mobi]

Contrary to what some people are suggesting, the journey from Bang Saray to Bangkok is really quite painless. There is no need to go anywhere near Pattaya. Instead, you drive on fast, quiet roads out to 331 (which basically runs parallel to Sukhumvit 15 kms to the east). It is a very good, very quiet road on which you can move very quickly. When you meet highway 36, you turn left and in about 5 kms turn right onto Highway 7 (at the junction near the Regent's school). If the traffic is clear it takes me an average of about an hour and a half into Bangkok (early one saturday morning with virtually no traffic I made it to Rajpreuk Golf Club, near the Don Muang airport in an hour and ten minutes). It takes me about 20 minutes to get onto Highway 7, which is probably about 15 minutes more than someone living around Mabrachan, which is hardly reason enough to move there, unless perhaps you are commuting every day. It is actually quicker to Bangkok from my home in Bang Saray than from my office in Jomtien, a conseqence of the quantity of traffic as the actual distance (using the 331 route from BS) is virtually the same.

I do know the roads you are referring to and and have used them on a number of occasions.

IMHO, you will be extremely fortunate to make highway 7 in 20 minutes, unless you are taking a lot of risks with your driving, or you do it at 5 a.m. - or both.

Anyway, I won't argue with you, no doubt you have the stop watch to prove it.

It takes me 3 minutes to drive to the Rayong/ Bangkok Highway, just down the road from Regents.

I am not saying Mabprachan is better just because of its proximity to the airport and Bangkok, I am simply saying it is one of many factors that makes the Mabprachan area more attractive for some.

I did say it was 'horses for courses' and I do understand that some would prefer the proximity to the sea that is afforded at areas like Bang Sarae.

BTW Gary A, us folks who live east of Sukhumvit have absolutely no problems driving along that road and turning west to do our shopping etc.

IMO, Sukhumvit in Pattaya is no more manic than any road in any city area of Thailand - including Bangkok- and is one of the things you have to get used to and accept when living in LOS. But I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near that road on a motorcycle.

Crime is no problem - on average, I would say there is far less than in the main Pattaya/Jomtien areas, and the Mobi Mansion is certainly not a fortress - along with most farang housing in my area of the lake - and I feel perfectly safe.

It seems to me that people take some lightning trips up the worst, most crowded areas of Soi Country Club, or Soi 'Muslim' and immediately write the whole area off as unsuitable, without really exploring the better parts at all.

Still, that's their loss and my gain

[Phil Conners]

I also live near the lake and cross Sukhumvit on a daily basis on either motorbike or car, have done so for years and never had a problem. Of course for a country boy used to horse and carriage it may seem a bit hectic but if you're used to the traffic of any big city in the world Sukhumvit is nothing unusual.

[DDay]

If there is anyone with land >125 TW or a 2-3 bedroom home in the Mabprachan area that is feeling an urgent need to lighten their real estate holdings, feel free to PM and we can discuss further.

Realistic offers only, rediculous offers will be summarily disregarded.

[Gary A]

I also live near the lake and cross Sukhumvit on a daily basis on either motorbike or car, have done so for years and never had a problem. Of course for a country boy used to horse and carriage it may seem a bit hectic but if you're used to the traffic of any big city in the world Sukhumvit is nothing unusual.

I agree that a person can get used to nearly anything. I lived in Bangkok for more than seven years. I did get used to the traffic but still HATED it. The day I was able to retire in nice quiet Jomtien was one of the best days of my life. Unfortunately Jomtien is now too crowded and has too much traffic to suit me. I now live in the boonies up country and the only traffic jams here are created by cattle and buffalo on the road.

I agree with Mobi that it indeed different strokes for different folks. I have friends in Bangkok who would never even consider leaving the city. They love it, the pollution, traffic and all the other warts. I do admit that without my Thai wife, I'd be headed back to my condo in the farang ghetto. As it is I'm content for the first time in my life.

[thebounder]

Contrary to what some people are suggesting, the journey from Bang Saray to Bangkok is really quite painless. There is no need to go anywhere near Pattaya. Instead, you drive on fast, quiet roads out to 331 (which basically runs parallel to Sukhumvit 15 kms to the east). It is a very good, very quiet road on which you can move very quickly. When you meet highway 36, you turn left and in about 5 kms turn right onto Highway 7 (at the junction near the Regent's school). If the traffic is clear it takes me an average of about an hour and a half into Bangkok (early one saturday morning with virtually no traffic I made it to Rajpreuk Golf Club, near the Don Muang airport in an hour and ten minutes). It takes me about 20 minutes to get onto Highway 7, which is probably about 15 minutes more than someone living around Mabrachan, which is hardly reason enough to move there, unless perhaps you are commuting every day. It is actually quicker to Bangkok from my home in Bang Saray than from my office in Jomtien, a conseqence of the quantity of traffic as the actual distance (using the 331 route from BS) is virtually the same.

I do know the roads you are referring to and and have used them on a number of occasions.

IMHO, you will be extremely fortunate to make highway 7 in 20 minutes, unless you are taking a lot of risks with your driving, or you do it at 5 a.m. - or both.

Anyway, I won't argue with you, no doubt you have the stop watch to prove it.

It takes me 3 minutes to drive to the Rayong/ Bangkok Highway, just down the road from Regents.

I am not saying Mabprachan is better just because of its proximity to the airport and Bangkok, I am simply saying it is one of many factors that makes the Mabprachan area more attractive for some.

I did say it was 'horses for courses' and I do understand that some would prefer the proximity to the sea that is afforded at areas like Bang Sarae.

BTW Gary A, us folks who live east of Sukhumvit have absolutely no problems driving along that road and turning west to do our shopping etc.

IMO, Sukhumvit in Pattaya is no more manic than any road in any city area of Thailand - including Bangkok- and is one of the things you have to get used to and accept when living in LOS. But I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near that road on a motorcycle.

Crime is no problem - on average, I would say there is far less than in the main Pattaya/Jomtien areas, and the Mobi Mansion is certainly not a fortress - along with most farang housing in my area of the lake - and I feel perfectly safe.

It seems to me that people take some lightning trips up the worst, most crowded areas of Soi Country Club, or Soi 'Muslim' and immediately write the whole area off as unsuitable, without really exploring the better parts at all.

Still, that's their loss and my gain

My home to highway 7 is only about 30 kms (much shorter than going through Pattaya), which means to do it in 20 minutes I have to average around 90 km/h, which on straight, wide and clear roads is really not a dangerous speed, at least not to my mind.