Wuhan market had role in virus outbreak, but more research needed - WHO

[Sujo]

7 hours ago, kingdong said:

So who just quoted the Chinese report as gospel?

No they just quoted what the chinese told them. They didnt say to believe it or not because at that time they wouldnt know.

 

Thenbagain, trump did say xi ping was being open and honest about it so if its good enough for the president.

[rabas]

34 minutes ago, Sujo said:

7 hours ago, kingdong said:

So who just quoted the Chinese report as gospel?

No they just quoted what the chinese told them. They didnt say to believe it or not because at that time they wouldnt know.

All time best answer.

Q. So WHO just quoted what the Chinese said?

A. No, they just quoted what the Chinese told them.

[Slain]

18 hours ago, ukrules said:

Apparently it's a state secret so draw your own conclusions from that. If it makes China look bad then it's secret, if it makes China look good then it's shouted from the rooftops.

 

There's a guy out there from Wales (Connor Reed) who had this virus at the end of November and I'm sure he wasn't the first case, he lives in Wuhan and contracted the disease a month 'before it existed' based on what they're saying about the market. Connor did a video interview with Sky News which is available online if you google 'Connor Reed Wuhan'.

 

They're very sneaky and always have been when it comes to covering up Chinese plagues. Lets look back in history a little -nearly every plague came out of China.

 

People seem to think the 1918 flu originated from the US, the Chinese did a great job of covering up here and even if you now go looking on google you won't find much if you search for '1918 flu China' and there's a reason for that.

 

They didn't call it 'flu' in China, they called it 'winter sickness'. If you google 'winter sickness 1917' and see what comes up it tells a very different story when compared with a similar search with the word flu in it. It's almost like there's still some kind of cover up going on.

 

That's not a typo when I mention 1917 for the google search, it was in China a year before the rest of the world which makes sense when you think about it, because that's its origin.

 

 

[Slain]

First time I've heard that one. Your must be getting on a bit to go back that far.

[Thomas J]

The coronavirus supposedly is found in the Horsehoe Bat.  The closest cave with those bats is approximately 1.000 Kilometres away  By contrast the Wuhan lab which was studying bat viruses is only a few KM away.  Those at the market say bats have never been sold at the market.  Conclusion by WHO the bat flew 1,000 Kilometres to Wuhan bit an animal which became infected and transmitted it to a human.  Certainly sounds like a plausible government talking point to me. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

20 hours ago, candide said:

Thank you for drawing our attention to this less known possible origin.

 

However, your conspiracy theory doesn't work. "1918 flu China" works quite well on Google. In third position, I found this quite interesting article. 

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/

 

 

Any way you cut it, among the various theories, it sounds like Spain got a scapegoating raw deal on that one!

 

Quote

The Spanish flu reached its height in autumn 1918 but raged until 1920, initially gaining its nickname from wartime censorship rules that allowed for reporting on the disease's ravages in neutral Spain.

 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6477554/

 

Quote

As Spain was neutral in the First World War, newspapers there were free to report the devastating effects that the 1918 pandemic virus was having in that country. Thus, it was generally perceived that the pandemic had originated in Spain, and the infection was incorrectly dubbed “Spanish flu”

 

Quote

In other European countries, however, the press refrained from reporting news of the spreading infection, in order to avoid alarming the general population, which was already suffering the privations caused by the First World War. On 22^nd August 1918, the Italian Interior Minister denied the alarming reports of the spread of the flu pandemic, and in the following months, both national and international newspapers followed suit. Nor was censorship restricted to news of the spread of the fearsome infection; it also extended to information and comments that contrasted with the official versions of the nature of the disease.

 

This latter aspect is where the Trump Admin comes into play, in their efforts to muzzle heath officials, withhold data, downplay the threat of the virus and then the emerging risk, and now even having some Republican led states / government agencies trying to withhold or alter their death reporting statistics.

 

We've been down this road before...

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

 

Quote

Florida medical examiners were releasing coronavirus death data. The state made them stop.
 

When the medical examiners’ list was available, it showed more deaths than the state’s count.

 

State officials have stopped releasing the list of coronavirus deaths being compiled by Florida’s medical examiners, which has at times shown a higher death toll than the state’s published count.
 

The list had previously been released in real time by the state Medical Examiners Commission. But earlier this month, after the Tampa Bay Times reported that the medical examiners’ death count was 10 percent higher than the figure released by the Florida Department of Health, state officials said the list needed to be reviewed and possibly redacted.

 

 

In a state led by Trump acolyte Gov. Gov. Ron DeSantis. 

Edited May 9, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Inn Between]

9 hours ago, Russell17au said:

And what gives you the right to declare what other people eat is barbaric? Are you one of these vegan idiots

Well primarily, freedom of speech laws give me the right to declare that it's barbaric to eat a creature that has been well documented and researched as as being dangerously diseased. There are many other appropriate terms that can be legitimately used, but I think 'barbaric' is quite appropriate. 

 

And I think it shows more validity in opinion then labeling every person who chooses to follow a vegan diet at being an "idiot". I would also guess that anybody making such a simple-minded statement inferring that a person is intellectually superior for being a meat-eater (and defender of bat eaters) would be interpreted as being laughably absurd. But thanks for the entertainment. 

[Pattaya46]

25 minutes ago, Inn Between said:

Well primarily, freedom of speech laws give me the right to ...

No such laws !

[Inn Between]

49 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

No such laws !

Okay I'll take your silly troll bait. But only this once! 

 

I live in Canada and am posting on an internationally accessed platform, so....

 

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a "fundamental freedom" by Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Charter also permits the government to enforce "reasonable" limits. Hate speech, obscenity, and defamation are common categories of restricted speech in Canada.

 

Such LAWS exit both to protect both our right to expression and protection for everyone who may be victims of hateful, defamatory, etc. speech,  as you can read above. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Inn Between

[Traubert]

15 minutes ago, Inn Between said:

Okay I'll take your silly troll bait. But only this once! 

 

I live in Canada and am posting on an internationally accessed platform, so....

 

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a "fundamental freedom" by Section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. The Charter also permits the government to enforce "reasonable" limits. Hate speech, obscenity, and defamation are common categories of restricted speech in Canada.

 

Such LAWS exit both to protect both our right to expression and protect for everyone who may be victims of hateful, defamatory, etc. speech,  as you can read above. 

 

 

Such as the Chinese?

[Inn Between]

12 minutes ago, Traubert said:

Such as the Chinese?

I am voicing an opinion against the custom having wet markets for wildlife where animals risky to human health are sold, slaughtered and consumed with virtually no regulations in place. I am also condemning the practice of consuming bats, which have been clearly shown to often carry a range of nasty viruses and disease. It doesn't matter to me where these situations exist or which culture indulges in them, I am saying they should ALL stop.

 

It just so happens that China clearly has these situations happening, but if they exist in Canada, Thailand, Timbuktu, or on the moon, I condemn them equally. It is also strongly and logically felt that a certain market in Wuhan, China is where this horrible plague that is tremendously affecting billions of people originated. I could talk about stopping the problem of wildlife wet markets and eating bats in general, but that would be irrelevant without also mentioning where the known problems exist  It's you who have decided to make my comments racial.   

[Mama Noodle]

22 minutes ago, Inn Between said:

I am voicing an opinion against the custom having wet markets for wildlife where animals risky to human health are sold, slaughtered and consumed with virtually no regulations in place. I am also condemning the practice of consuming bats, which have been clearly shown to often carry a range of nasty viruses and disease. It doesn't matter to me where these situations exist or which culture indulges in them, I am saying they should ALL stop.

 

It just so happens that China clearly has these situations happening, but if they exist in Canada, Thailand, Timbuktu, or on the moon, I condemn them equally. It is also strongly and logically felt that a certain market in Wuhan, China is where this horrible plague that is tremendously affecting billions of people originated. I could talk about stopping the problem of wildlife wet markets and eating bats in general, but that would be irrelevant without also mentioning where the known problems exist  It's you who have decided to make my comments racial.   

 

This general view is what I believe most people have, its the fringe weirdos, partisans, and do-gooders who are the loudest and make it seem like its nuts. 

 

And its not just the 'wet markets' per se. You can have a 'wet market' with safe food handling practices.

 

Its the culture surrounding the Chinese and their billion dollar market of 'natural remedies' that drive the little mini economy of eating raw bats, deep frying dogs alive, and filthy wet markets with no safe food handling practices. Most modern viruses come from China and are usually a result of their lack of safe food handling practices and wild exotic animal storage & filth.

[Pattaya46]

5 hours ago, Inn Between said:

Okay I'll take your silly troll bait. But only this once! 

I live in Canada and am posting on an internationally accessed platform, so....

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a "fundamental freedom"  //

How silly is it to believe Canada laws apply here ?!

Just try to post some critics about the King and let see what happen... 

 

PS: Don't try!... if you want to be able to post again

[lkv]

A recent intelligence report from Germany criticises both the US and China.

 

"Germany’s defence ministry and BND foreign spy agency have privately cast doubt on American claims that the coronavirus pandemic originated in a Chinese lab, media reported on Friday.

 

An internal memo prepared for Defence Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer “classifies the American claims as a calculated attempt to distract” from Washington’s own failings, Der Spiegel reported."

 

So this sort of adresses the lab theory.

 

On the other hand,

 

"Spiegel reported that German authorities also targeted China with criticism, citing “BND information” that Beijing pressured the WHO to delay issuing a global warning after the initial outbreak in Wuhan.

 

“In a January 21 telephone call, Chinese President Xi Jinping asked Tedros to hold back information about person-to-person transmission and delay a pandemic warning,” the news weekly wrote on its website.

 

“According to the BND’s assessment, China’s information policy cost four to six weeks of time to fight the virus worldwide,” Spiegel added.

 

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3083607/us-claims-china-coronavirus-lab-leak-attempt-distract-trumps-own

 

[ukrules]

10 minutes ago, lkv said:

“According to the BND’s assessment, China’s information policy cost four to six weeks of time to fight the virus worldwide,” Spiegel added.

This is the time that would have massively reduced the spread. Some say by 95%.

 

I can draw only one conclusion from this - they wanted / needed it to spread to the rest of the world for some reason.

 

We don't know what that reason is but we're going to find out sooner or later.

 

We have a massive China problem. The kind of problem that leads to war.

[Odysseus123]

14 minutes ago, ukrules said:

We have a massive China problem. The kind of problem that leads to war.

Only in your mind.

Always interesting to see the warmongers around here-hopefully you are of an age to enlist and do your bit tho' it has been noted throughout history that the most ardent supporters of war do so from the sidelines..

And who,exactly,are we?

Opening scene 'All Quiet on the Western Front'..

 

Edited May 9, 2020 by Odysseus123

[rabas]

17 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Only in your mind.

Always interesting to see the warmongers around here-hopefully you are of an age to enlist and do your bit tho' it has been noted throughout history that the most ardent supporters of war do so from the sidelines..

And who,exactly,are we?

Opening scene 'All Quiet on the Western Front'..

Wars happen when you are not prepared. Denial is the first warning sign.

 

People who warn of war are the ones trying to prevent it.

[Odysseus123]

37 minutes ago, rabas said:

Wars happen when you are not prepared. Denial is the first warning sign.

 

People who warn of war are the ones trying to prevent it.

Well..it's obvious that you haven't read General Smedley Butler then.."war's a racket"

 

It is interesting to note that it is only the usual white supremacists-on both side of the pond-that are calling for a putative war with China...apparently unable and unwilling to understand that the era of the white man in Asia is long over.

 

For the hapless British it came in late 1945 when the Colonels of the Indian Army informed Lord Louis Mountbatten that the Army would no longer join colonial ventures engineered by the British and suggested that they go back home to their dingy collection of islands.

 

For the primitive,dualistic and ideologically driven Americans its been a different road tho' 1949 and 1975 should have taught them something...

 

I would suggest that both the UK and the United States deal with their utterly incompetent public health reactions to the pandemic before rattling their sabres at anyone.

Edited May 9, 2020 by Odysseus123

[Mama Noodle]

Just now, Odysseus123 said:

It is interesting to note that it is only the usual white supremacists-on both side of the pond-that are calling for a putative war with China...apparently unable and unwilling to understand that the era of the white man in Asia is long over.

 

[SunsetT]

On 5/8/2020 at 10:08 PM, lkv said:

Why are you worried about the wet markets, I don't get it.

 

It was human to human transmission from the lab.

 

Some guy accidentally spilt a tube in the lab, got infected, gave it to some others, then eventually someone of these others got hungry, and went to the market to buy food.

Well thanks for informing us of your inside information.

[SunsetT]

On 5/8/2020 at 10:16 PM, Inn Between said:

Well, I distinctly cited eating disease-ridden bats as a barbaric custom, didn't I? And I'll stick to that opinion whatever any ridiculously over-zealot liberal wants to say about "protecting people's customs". If those are dangerous customs, it's time for them to go.

As long as your bat steaks are ordered 'well done' and not 'rare' or 'medium rare' its OK.....????!

[ukrules]

On 5/9/2020 at 12:16 PM, DirtyHarry55 said:

Bats are Nr.1 disease carrier carrying up to 60 Viruses that can infect Humans so if we eat them there's a good chance to get infected

imagine at the wet Market where they are chopped up on all that Bat blood get splashed around.

Apparently they didn't sell bat at the wet market, I tend to believe this. This supports the research leak theory.

[CGW]

11 minutes ago, ukrules said:

Apparently they didn't sell bat at the wet market, I tend to believe this. This supports the research leak theory.

But which makes a better story to sell to the masses? 

For me what stands out in this whole agenda is that the mainstream media, those who are the supposed go between, protection and keeping government honest, have let us down! selling out to the highest bidder!

"Kill" Bill Gates has long exploited this weakness!

[DirtyHarry55]

14 hours ago, ukrules said:

Apparently they didn't sell bat at the wet market, I tend to believe this. This supports the research leak theory.

Yes it's definitely a possibility considering it's close proximity to the Virus epicenter.
Not saying it was intentional probably they've been studying it and it accidentally got out.

[candide]

On 5/9/2020 at 11:59 PM, ukrules said:

This is the time that would have massively reduced the spread. Some say by 95%.

 

I can draw only one conclusion from this - they wanted / needed it to spread to the rest of the world for some reason.

 

We don't know what that reason is but we're going to find out sooner or later.

 

We have a massive China problem. The kind of problem that leads to war.

The perfect conspiracy theory. No reason is given, so it's indisputable.

 

On the other hand, there are serious political and economic reasons for not doing it on purpose.

[Pattaya46]

14 hours ago, ukrules said:

Apparently they didn't sell bat at the wet market, I tend to believe this.

This supports the research leak theory.

Uh? Did I miss something in news? but from the beginning I remember that the source of virus for Humans was supposed to be a Pangolin, who itself got it from a Bat. There is (AFAIK) no propagation possible from Bat to Human, but the virus mutated enough on Pangolin to be transmit to Human. ????

 

Absolutely nothing here to support the US theory of a leak in the research lab, and no proof anywhere.

[ukrules]

1 hour ago, Pattaya46 said:

Uh? Did I miss something in news? but from the beginning I remember that the source of virus for Humans was supposed to be a Pangolin, who itself got it from a Bat. There is (AFAIK) no propagation possible from Bat to Human, but the virus mutated enough on Pangolin to be transmit to Human. ????

 

Absolutely nothing here to support the US theory of a leak in the research lab, and no proof anywhere.

That might be 100% correct but it doesn't mean a lab had no part in this.

 

Imagine a scenario where there are bats, civets and pangolins in the same lab and they're mutating viruses between the species.

 

Don't get too hung up on what the 'US' think, there's a lot of other countries out there and they're all researching the lineage of this virus. We will find out where it came from, even if that means recreating it in exactly the same way it was first created.

[Odysseus123]

2 minutes ago, ukrules said:

That might be 100% correct but it doesn't mean a lab had no part in this.

 

Imagine a scenario where there are bats, civets and pangolins in the same lab and they're mutating viruses between the species.

 

Don't get too hung up on what the 'US' think, there's a lot of other countries out there and they're all researching the lineage of this virus. We will find out where it came from, even if that means recreating it in exactly the same way it was first created.

Very true-there are a lot of countries researching this virus..bang on the money.