Suspected Militants Torch 5 Schools In Southern Thailand

[LaoPo]

Suspected Militants Torch 5 Schools in Southern Thailand

Thai soldier walks through rubble of fire-destroyed school of Pakaha Lang in Pattani, 16 Apr 2007

Thai police say suspected separatist militants have set fire to five schools in Thailand's south, where militants frequently target state-run institutions to protest the government's presence in the region.

Police said Monday that a health office and a teacher's house also were set ablaze in Pattani province Sunday. No one was injured.

Authorities blame the attacks on militants believed to be fighting for a separate Muslim state in Thailand's three southernmost provinces, near Malaysia. The militants frequently target schools, which they say represent the Buddhist-dominated government.

Pattani has been particularly volatile over the past week, since Thai troops shot dead three teenagers in what police say was an act of self defense. Hundreds of Muslims protested the shooting Saturday.

At least two thousand people have been killed in bombings, shootings and arson attacks throughout the region over the past three years. Authorities have blamed some of the violence on organized crime and corrupt officials.

From:

http://www.voanews.com/english/2007-04-16-voa14.cfm

LaoPo

Edited April 16, 2007 by LaoPo

[MiG16]

LaoPo

this happened around the same time the bomb went off at the restaurant in town that I reported about on Sunday night. early Monday morning (today) there were also reports of suspicious objects at various locations around town. none turned into anything, but created enough chaos, and the last 2-3 days the town has been particularly quiet

[cdnvic]

More "heroes" fighting valiantly against unarmed schools?

How do the expect to found an independent nation built on the actions of cowards?

[richard10365]

I think if you told the people of the 3 southern provinces that you would give them their little country that residents would start informing on the militants so they could stay Thai citizens.

[onzestan]

More "heroes" fighting valiantly against unarmed schools?

How do the expect to found an independent nation built on the actions of cowards?

On the contrary. They are the most peaceloving believers in the world.

And they are willing to kill, rape, bomb, execute, destroy and pillage to prove it.

onzestan

[ColPyat]

More "heroes" fighting valiantly against unarmed schools?

How do the expect to found an independent nation built on the actions of cowards?

And here we go again...

No, they are not cowards - they are well trained, insurgents who so far lead the fight against the government. Apart from demolition and the strategical and brutal killing of civilians to achieve maximum fear, and to provoke sectarian violence, they also have on numerous occasions engaged the security forces in often dare devil attacks. These are not the actions of cowards, but extremely well organized, ideologically trained insurgents which have the initiative.

Underestimating ones opponent by using strong swearwords may satisfy one personally, but it still will not explain what goes on there. At least the military down there does not make this mistake, on the opposite - they call them a far more dangerous threat than the communist insurgency of the 70's and 80's.

[ColPyat]

More "heroes" fighting valiantly against unarmed schools?

How do the expect to found an independent nation built on the actions of cowards?

On the contrary. They are the most peaceloving believers in the world.

And they are willing to kill, rape, bomb, execute, destroy and pillage to prove it.

onzestan

Actually, so far the only documented rapes in this conflict i have come across were by rogue members of the government security forces against Muslim women.

Which is a big problem as the actions of those rogue members of the security forces, which also include large scale corruption, graft and involvement in illicit businesses do give the insurgents some sort of legitimacy, which they shouldn't have gotten.

[kmart]

More "heroes" fighting valiantly against unarmed schools?

How do the expect to found an independent nation built on the actions of cowards?

On the contrary. They are the most peaceloving believers in the world.

And they are willing to kill, rape, bomb, execute, destroy and pillage to prove it.

onzestan

Actually, so far the only documented rapes in this conflict i have come across were by rogue members of the government security forces against Muslim women.

Which is a big problem as the actions of those rogue members of the security forces, which also include large scale corruption, graft and involvement in illicit businesses do give the insurgents some sort of legitimacy, which they shouldn't have gotten.

Agree with you about this. Bangkok seemingly sends its rogue / inept security staff here to either serve as a punishment or to pillage the local population.

[richard10365]

What about giving them their little country? How would that change things?

[cdnvic]

More "heroes" fighting valiantly against unarmed schools?

How do the expect to found an independent nation built on the actions of cowards?

And here we go again...

No, they are not cowards - they are well trained, insurgents who so far lead the fight against the government. Apart from demolition and the strategical and brutal killing of civilians to achieve maximum fear, and to provoke sectarian violence, they also have on numerous occasions engaged the security forces in often dare devil attacks. These are not the actions of cowards, but extremely well organized, ideologically trained insurgents which have the initiative.

Underestimating ones opponent by using strong swearwords may satisfy one personally, but it still will not explain what goes on there. At least the military down there does not make this mistake, on the opposite - they call them a far more dangerous threat than the communist insurgency of the 70's and 80's.

Regardless of the tactics, and reasoning behind it, you won't convince me that burning down schools and attacking monks is anything but cowardly. Attacks on the security forces seem a lot less common than attacks on unarmed targets such as schools, teachers, and other civilians.

[ColPyat]

What about giving them their little country? How would that change things?

This is never going to happen. This is contrary to the basic foundation of the modern Thai state. So far the Thai state is not even considering allowing Yawi, the language the 80% Muslim majority speaks, as a second official language within the three provinces.

[richard10365]

What about giving them their little country? How would that change things?

This is never going to happen. This is contrary to the basic foundation of the modern Thai state. So far the Thai state is not even considering allowing Yawi, the language the 80% Muslim majority speaks, as a second official language within the three provinces.

I think if the Thai government threatened to give them their own state most people who live there would turn on the insurgents. What kind of quality of life could they possibly have without the support of the Thai government. If they think it's bad now, take away their health care rights, government schools, police force, hospitals, and border patrols.

They should be careful what they wish for. They might get it.

Edited April 17, 2007 by richard10365

[ColPyat]

Regardless of the tactics, and reasoning behind it, you won't convince me that burning down schools and attacking monks is anything but cowardly. Attacks on the security forces seem a lot less common than attacks on unarmed targets such as schools, teachers, and other civilians.

I do not know why you feel that is so. That may be because you only selectively read the news which anyhow can due to financial restraints and difficulties of access report on the bigger cases. But if you read the news carefully you can read about many attacks on security forces. And i can assure you, having been down there, and going back soon (yes, the fly in the ointment here will take a short break from posting ), that it is as i stated.

[ColPyat]

I think if the Thai government threatened to give them their own state most people who live there would turn on the insurgents. What kind of quality of life could they possibly have without the support of the Thai government. If they think it's bad now, take away their health care rights, government schools, police force, hospitals, and border patrols.

They should be careful what they wish for. They might get it.

There are no statistics on the local support for independence, and i guess that the government would be very careful of ever doing those statistics.

My personal guesstimate is that the majority of the Thai Muslims (80% of the local population) does not support the insurgents due to the atrocities and the general insecurity and fear they cause. But they would clearly support independence.

The area is everything else than poor. There is very little of the dire poverty you see in the North and Isaarn. Most people have their own land, which makes, when rubber is planted a lot more profit per Rai than land in the North and Isaarn.

It's mostly agrarian based economy, with intact village and family structures, unlike other parts of the country. The culture of the majority Muslim population is very different from other parts of Thailand, they are relatively strict Muslims without being fanatic, and take pride in their distinctive culture and history.

[cdnvic]

Regardless of the tactics, and reasoning behind it, you won't convince me that burning down schools and attacking monks is anything but cowardly. Attacks on the security forces seem a lot less common than attacks on unarmed targets such as schools, teachers, and other civilians.

I do not know why you feel that is so. That may be because you only selectively read the news which anyhow can due to financial restraints and difficulties of access report on the bigger cases. But if you read the news carefully you can read about many attacks on security forces. And i can assure you, having been down there, and going back soon (yes, the fly in the ointment here will take a short break from posting ), that it is as i stated.

I look forward to your report. I get my news from The Nation, BBC, CBC, etc.... so I'm at the mercy of their news editors.

[ColPyat]

I look forward to your report. I get my news from The Nation, BBC, CBC, etc.... so I'm at the mercy of their news editors.

I have made many posts on the south in this thread:

Insurgents Burn Female Villager Alive

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=115811

I am not overly keen on repeating myself. Maybe you would like to read some of my posts there, and we could debate from there on.

[cdnvic]

I look forward to your report. I get my news from The Nation, BBC, CBC, etc.... so I'm at the mercy of their news editors.

I have made many posts on the south in this thread:

Insurgents Burn Female Villager Alive

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=115811

I am not overly keen on repeating myself. Maybe you would like to read some of my posts there, and we could debate from there on.

Who's debating? You had a point a few posts back that makes sense.

[ColPyat]

Who's debating? You had a point a few posts back that makes sense.

Shit.

I love to debate.

[onzestan]

My personal guesstimate is that the majority of the Thai Muslims (80% of the local population) does not support the insurgents due to the atrocities and the general insecurity and fear they cause. But they would clearly support independence.

The culture of the majority Muslim population is very different from other parts of Thailand, they are relatively strict Muslims without being fanatic, and take pride in their distinctive culture and history.

Dear Colpyat,

I understand where your coming from. Sure the majority of the muslims down south are peace-loving,

and I agree that any kind of violence is wrong for whatever reason.

Let me quote to you something from an essay that I received in my inbox a couple of weeks ago :

" Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because one day they will awake and find that the fanatics own them and the end of their peace-loving world will have begun. "

I think that this is very relevant to what is happening in the world today. At this point it is irrelevant who started it all, it's relevant to stop it, because I don't want to be ruled by the sharia and if the silent and peaceful majority of the muslimworld does not do something about it we are heading to a world that many of us will not like at all.

I will not live to see it because of my age and fragile health, but that doesn't stop me from trying to do something about it. And if you think that's wrong, I don't blame you for thinking that, but please allow me to have a different opinion.

No malice intended

onzestan

[ColPyat]

Let me quote to you something from an essay that I received in my inbox a couple of weeks ago :

" Peace-loving Muslims have been made irrelevant by their silence.

Peace-loving Muslims will become our enemy if they don't speak up, because one day they will awake and find that the fanatics own them and the end of their peace-loving world will have begun. "

It is true that moderate Muslims are too silent.

The problem though is, that it is made difficult for them to make a clear stand against the fanatics by the actions of the fanatics in the west - namely the present governments of the US and the UK - which are using extremely violent tactics, lies and deceit, to achieve their aims, whatever those may be.

It is a world that is increasingly polarized, and unfortunately the moderates of both sides, who usually just want to get on with life, who don't want to be forced into this conflict, are increasingly forced to take sides.

What did Bush say after 9/11? Either you are for us, or against us - is that a way to solve conflicts?

The majority of the UK population was against the wars, there were demonstrations attended by millions - but did the government care? No, they just went ahead anyhow.

Don't forget - after 9/11 there was huge sympathy for the US, even in Iran hundred thousands went on the streets declaring sympathy for the US and disgust for the attacks. And what happened? The axis of evil, wars, lies and deceit.

How do you expect moderate Muslims to make a stand, when our most powerful governments in the west ignore them when they in fact did so, even distorted the media in a way that demonstrations by a tiny minority applauding the attacks made the headlines, and not the demonstrations of sympathy?

And if we look at the conflict in the South - how can you expect the Southern Muslims to make a clear stand? They are in fear, and they do see that the government on which side they are supposed to be employs at times brutal methods against civilians, has many rogue elements who abuse their position for personal gain.

Peace loving people all over the world are made irrelevant by the dominating voice of the violent and extreme. We westerners are not one bit better than our present enemies.

[onzestan]

Dear Colpyat,

I rest my case.

Sorry I can't agree with you, and that's OK to each his own.

Cheers and goodluck

[ColPyat]

Dear Colpyat,

I rest my case.

Sorry I can't agree with you, and that's OK to each his own.

Cheers and goodluck

That is up to you. You are naturally free to disagree with me.

I wish though you would be a bit more elaborate in presenting your views, than just stopping a discussion by refusing to answer on some very valid points i have made. It just looks like to me that you are not really interested in discussion but only in presenting your views while ignoring anything that could possibly change your points of view.

We don't need to go into ad hominem attacks while discussing, but these issues are more than worthy to discuss, by presenting facts, evidence and proof thereof, and by interpreting those into personal opinions, while listening to one's opponents arguments and replying to those in a civil manner.

But, yes, up to you.

[onzestan]

It just looks like to me that you are not really interested in discussion but only in presenting your views while ignoring anything that could possibly change your points of view.

Please do not accuse me of something that you're obviously doing yourself.

I don't question your points of view and I'm not blind to what's happening on both sides, but what I do know is that the muslim world is brilliant in their tactics of being the victims.

Let me ask you one question, and plse do not take offence because there is non intended.

Why are you trying to convert me to your point of view when obviously I'm not trying to convert you?

We are like on the one side an Arsenal supporter and on the other a Chelsey supporter.

They view every action on the field from a completely different angle and who's right?

Anyway I do not wish to continue this discussion anymore, partly also because this is not the place for it.

Oh one more thing, my favorite place in Thailand is Krabi, I have been there upteen times and I have never had any problems with the muslims there, in fact some of the most gracious people I have met there were muslims, and I do respect other peoples believes as long as they respect mine.

Good luck again and peace upon you

cheers

onzestan

[ColPyat]

Why are you trying to convert me to your point of view when obviously I'm not trying to convert you?

We are like on the one side an Arsenal supporter and on the other a Chelsey supporter.

Muslims in Krabi and Muslims in Pattani are very different. Muslims in Pattani are ethnic Malay, and speak a completely different language, and have their own distinct culture besides a shared religion.

Given the numbers of dead, Muslims are the victims.

Given the long history of Western, especially US involvement in places such as Afghanisthan, Iran, Saudi, etc. which have more than contributed to the present mess - things are a lot more murky than you are willing to accept.

Why i would try to "convert" you is a completely misplaced question. I am trying to have an intelligent discussion, and not just irrelevant posts of personal opinion based on emotional feelings, expressions of outrage, or empty statements of allegiance.

Basically in a culture of discussion people do learn from each other, present facts, buid up intelligent argumentation, etc.

And no, from your position it may look like a football game, but in real life, and from my position, not sitting on the fence, it is an issue where hundreds of thousands of people die and get maimed.

[onzestan]

Why are you trying to convert me to your point of view when obviously I'm not trying to convert you?

We are like on the one side an Arsenal supporter and on the other a Chelsey supporter.

Muslims in Krabi and Muslims in Pattani are very different. Muslims in Pattani are ethnic Malay, and speak a completely different language, and have their own distinct culture besides a shared religion.

Given the numbers of dead, Muslims are the victims.

Given the long history of Western, especially US involvement in places such as Afghanisthan, Iran, Saudi, etc. which have more than contributed to the present mess - things are a lot more murky than you are willing to accept.

Why i would try to "convert" you is a completely misplaced question. I am trying to have an intelligent discussion, and not just irrelevant posts of personal opinion based on emotional feelings, expressions of outrage, or empty statements of allegiance.

Basically in a culture of discussion people do learn from each other, present facts, buid up intelligent argumentation, etc.

And no, from your position it may look like a football game, but in real life, and from my position, not sitting on the fence, it is an issue where hundreds of thousands of people die and get maimed.

I"m trying very hard to stay polite here.

Obviously you are an anti-american more than you are a pro-muslim, and ONE MORE TIME I do NOT want to discuss this any further with someone who's not listening to what I'm saying

I did NOT compare the war between the two sides to a football game. I was using this methaphor to show that our opinions of the same actions are completely different and irreconcilable.

In the hope that you understand were I'm coming from, I don't care if the muslims from Pattani have a different language than those of Krabi they're muslims aren't they?

By the numbers of dead do you include the guy's that blow themselves up i.o. to kill innocent people.

Do you include the numbers of muslims killed in Iraq by other muslims from a different branch of faith?

Do you include the guys that hijacked the planes on 9/11?

Do you include the women that are stoned to death by muslims?

Obviously I'm getting to excited here.

Moderators can you close this topic please before I get banned

onzestan

[ColPyat]

I"m trying very hard to stay polite here.

Obviously you are an anti-american more than you are a pro-muslim, and ONE MORE TIME I do NOT want to discuss this any further with someone who's not listening to what I'm saying

Yes, you are right.

It indeed is useless to discuss this issue with you. If you retreat into accusations of anti-Americanism as soon as previous and present US policy is criticized then this is already breaching the limits of politeness and good manners.

If you fear to be banned then i would suggest to stay away from any topics in which you may encounter opinions that do not conform to yours or in which you may have to read facts that you are not ready or willing to accept.

"peace" be upon you...