Gulf Of Thailand Won't Rise With Global Warming, Expert Claims

[chuckd]

Climate Change Minister Sen. Penny Wong accused the opposition members who voted the bill down of being climate change deniers out of step with the world.

Well, she would, wouldn't she, given that's all her job exists for.

Global warming is a proven fraud, sustained only by smug groupthink among its proponents, and swelled by a vast army of sycophants with discount brains who all want to feel important.

Rick:

Doesn't her quote sound suspiciously similar to some of the posts on this thread?

[RickBradford]

^^

It does, a bit, but Wong isn't as entertaining as some of the global warming moonbats on here.

BTW, Professor (Hide the decline) Jones has agreed to step down pending an investigation into his part in Climategate.

I think I'll have to watch the video again....

Edited December 2, 2009 by RickBradford

[Thongkorn]

It was said on the news yesterday that the sea levels would rise by 4 feet by 2020, I wish they would make there minds up . If the gulf of Thailand will not be effected , Thailand must be at the top of the world then.

[JR Texas]

It was said on the news yesterday that the sea levels would rise by 4 feet by 2020, I wish they would make there minds up . If the gulf of Thailand will not be effected , Thailand must be at the top of the world then.

I think most Thais believe they are at the top of everything.

Seriously, the Thai scientists whose work started this thread never said it would not rise under any and all conditions........or at least I did not read it. If you back way up, I posted a link to his article so that others could download it and read it.

I am not sure if any person who has posted on this thread has actually read the article.........I did but had trouble understand all of it. Still, I understood enough to come away with the feeling that he was not sure about his initial findings and wanted more research on the subject done.

[RickBradford]

If anyone has the time and inclination to probe the enormous scope of the fraud carried out by Prof Jones et al, it is all laid bare in a 43-page report here.

There's some shocking stuff in there, especially regarding the computer programs these charlatans used to "prove" the politically-correct but scientifically-baseless global warming scam.

[plachon]

If anyone has the time and inclination to probe the enormous scope of the fraud carried out by Prof Jones et al, it is all laid bare in a 43-page report here.

There's some shocking stuff in there, especially regarding the computer programs these charlatans used to "prove" the politically-correct but scientifically-baseless global warming scam.

Yes, totally shocking! Presidents are going to fall over this "Climategate" affair! Puff! Rant! Grrrrrrrrrrr!

Sorry to break it to you Rick, but this is just a minor matter that will stop at the CRU. There is no fraud or other crime committed here, or do you have other evidence? Pure baseless hyperbole on your part.

If you had any idea about how academia works, you'd realise there are academic communities and discourse coalitions working both within and across disciplines and institutions. That's how science progresses and works these days I'm afraid. Knowledge creation is and always has been political and runs according to dominant paradigms. Until you skeptics can come up with some evidence to counter and disprove the dominant paradigm, then I'm afraid you're destined to join the ranks of the flat earthers and creationists. It's tough, but some time soon you'll have to face up to facts and realise you're the one whose been scammed.

[RickBradford]

^^

you'll have to face up to facts and realise you're the one whose been scammed

Correct. I've been scammed, you've been scammed, and so has the whole Western world, into seeing our tax money paid to crooks for a non-solution to a non-existent problem.

Yes, global warming is man-made, almost completely man-made by the crooked "scientists" at CRU and related institutions, and as a result we've all been badly scammed.

Thanks for reminding me....

Edited December 2, 2009 by RickBradford

[teatree]

JR. You keep talking about a decentralised power system.

Could be specific and tell us:

1) When we will get it

2) What form it will take

3) How this is going to be achieved when the ONLY solutions being put forward are carbon tax and carbon rationing?

Please be specific, and don't just post a link about a token scheme by some city council to build a wind farm that will provide the energy for 500 homes. I want to hear when we can ALL get to use decentralised and clean energy.

[RickBradford]

this is just a minor matter that will stop at the CRU

Wall Street Journal: Climate change researchers must believe in the reality of global warming just as a priest must believe in the existence of God.

New York Times: Hacked E-Mail Is New Fodder for Climate Dispute

The Times: The great climate change science scandal

Daily Telegraph: Climategate: the final nail in the coffin of 'Anthropogenic Global Warming'?

These charlatans are busted big-time.

Edited December 2, 2009 by RickBradford

[ballzafire]

The latest from Spaceweather.com:

SOLAR MINIMUM: The sun is in the pits of a very deep

solar minimum. Many researchers thought the sunspot cycle

had hit bottom in 2008 when the sun was blank 73% of the time.

Not so. 2009 is on the verge of going even lower. So far this

year, the sun has been blank 75% of the time, and only a serious

outbreak of sunspots over the next few weeks will prevent 2009

from becoming the quietest year in a century. Solar minimum continues.

Nah. Absolutely NO relation to the current global COOLING trend we're seeing.

Nope. NONE at all...

Attention all you "human-induced climate change" troglodytes out there... are you listening?

I can hear your teeth chattering........

Edited December 2, 2009 by ballzafire

[ballzafire]

And the records keep dropping...

Record Lows - 2009

[Thongkorn]

I read today in the Papers, and we all know they must be true, The Hole in the ozone at one of the poles i think South , is actually cooling the Earth down, because it is causing wind to accelerate and blow cooler.

[brahmburgers]

It was said on the news yesterday that the sea levels would rise by 4 feet by 2020, I wish they would make there minds up . If the gulf of Thailand will not be effected , Thailand must be at the top of the world then.

Agree, parts of Thailand will be seriously affected by rising sea levels, particularly that megapolis known as Bangkok. Unless they can somehow change the law of physics that states something like; 'water finds its level.'

The pie chart below, taken from Wikipedia

shows million of metric tons of CO2 emitted worldwide.

China has taken over first place from the US and, according to the chart, emits 6,017,000,000 tons of the stuff - the biggest overall polluter worldwide.

USA emits 5,902,000,000 tons, and is 5th place per capita (after some dune-ridden countries in The Arabian peninsula).

Thailand is #22 worldwide as a CO2 polluter, and is the most polluting country in SE Asia.

If you had to haul that muck by pick-up trucks that could carry 1 ton each, you'd need about 30 trillion trucks to carry the carbon pollution emitted by the world in one year.

that's over 82 million tons per day, or 3.4 million tons per hour, or 60 million tons per minute, 'round the clock.

Some might say that CO2 is not a polluter, but come on let's get real. Wherever CO2 is emitted by coal plants or internal combustion motors or whatever, there's also tons of toxic emissions in the soup. It's like saying Dorito corn chips aren't bad when, upon close inspection, junk foods like Doritos are riven with trans-fats, the yuk that clogs peoples' arteries.

Edited December 2, 2009 by brahmburgers

[LaoPo]

It was said on the news yesterday that the sea levels would rise by 4 feet by 2020, I wish they would make there minds up . If the gulf of Thailand will not be effected , Thailand must be at the top of the world then.

Agree, parts of Thailand will be seriously affected by rising sea levels, particularly that megapolis known as Bangkok. Unless they can somehow change the law of physics that states something like; 'water finds its level.'

Indeed; however the largest threat on a short term, rather than the long term from the climate changes, will be excessive rainfall in the north (and in Burma, Laos, China), combined with a rare huge storm or typhoon coming from the south/south-east (or even south-west), preventing the enormous floods coming from the north to reach the gulf of Thailand.

Massive water walls in the gulf -and from the north- have no other way to go than the lower coastlines.

This will flood -excessively- major parts of southern Thailand and the Bangkok and even Pattaya area and the water will stay for a long time and totally parralize the economy of Thailand. The damage will be huge and the economy will totally collapse.

It's not a time of IF...but when.

Thailand and the lower parts of the country are in no way prepared for such a disaster.

LaoPo

[JR Texas]

If anyone has the time and inclination to probe the enormous scope of the fraud carried out by Prof Jones et al, it is all laid bare in a 43-page report here.

There's some shocking stuff in there, especially regarding the computer programs these charlatans used to "prove" the politically-correct but scientifically-baseless global warming scam.

Yes, totally shocking! Presidents are going to fall over this "Climategate" affair! Puff! Rant! Grrrrrrrrrrr!

Sorry to break it to you Rick, but this is just a minor matter that will stop at the CRU. There is no fraud or other crime committed here, or do you have other evidence? Pure baseless hyperbole on your part.

If you had any idea about how academia works, you'd realise there are academic communities and discourse coalitions working both within and across disciplines and institutions. That's how science progresses and works these days I'm afraid. Knowledge creation is and always has been political and runs according to dominant paradigms. Until you skeptics can come up with some evidence to counter and disprove the dominant paradigm, then I'm afraid you're destined to join the ranks of the flat earthers and creationists. It's tough, but some time soon you'll have to face up to facts and realise you're the one whose been scammed.

First, good post Brahmburger.......30 trillion trucks worth of heat inducing fossil fuel farts.....

Second, Thongkorn, there does appear to be something strange going on down under with the Ozone hole and temperature.......not sure what it is at present, but did read about it too.

That illustrates how complex climate change is.......and how certain events are not predicted. It is the "surprises" that worry me the most. Maybe one day we will walk outside and see something very odd in the sky.......at that point, even the BOLs/skeptics might come to grips with climate change reality.

Third, Plachon...........good post. "Scammed" is a good word for that has happened to them. The do have similarities to "flat earthers" and "creationists."

The BOLs/skeptics have a problem with their recent illegal theft of private emails.......that problem is summarized here:

https://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media/press/...enews/CRUupdate

"It is worth reiterating that our conclusions correlate well to those of other scientists based on the separate data sets held by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) and the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS),” concluded Professor Davies."

Basically, no person is sure what has happened (first point).

No person can trust anything being disseminated from the BOLs (second point........as an aside, one of the BOLs here who is screaming the loudest about manipulation of data just manipulated a position and has no right to sit on his high horse).

They happily and habitually manipulate statements/ideas to fit their twisted model of reality........itself simply a reflection of what BIG OIL wants them to believe.

Even if all of the scientists at CRU are corrupt to the core (and they are not), one has to come up with a good explanation as to why their conclusions "correlate well with those of other scientists, based on separate data sets."

It will be interesting to see what legal ramifications result from this......since the BOLs are on the wrong side of seemingly everything, they will no doubt pay the price for what they just did......it will become very embarrassing for them once the facts surface.

Finally, it looks like they are on the "hide the decline" thing again.

Nobody is hiding anything. The problem is the inability of the BOLs/skeptics to interpret cycles. Annual mean global temperature change (and even longer time frames) show ups and downs......that is normal.

You see a rise followed by a fall.........the next rise is greater than the previous one........followed by a fall.........the next rise is even greater..........followed by a fall.......the end result is a steady upward increase over time.

So, any decline will most certainly be followed by an increase in temperature in the near future.......and that increase will be even higher than before. It is a cycle. What matters most is the long term upward trend.......itself linked to the constant increase in CO2.

The earth is not cooling. If you look at the earth from space you see what? You see a lot of water. That water is absorbing radiation from the sun......it is warming significantly and impacting weather patterns and harming life in the oceans (e.g., corals).

Look at this again:

That shows the entire picture.......and not just partial information on land temperatures.

We are in serious trouble..........we must act now.........I pointed out at least one ultimate solution previously (see the earlier post on ENIAC and Blackberry, etc).

We have to decentralize our energy system (create personal energy systems) and reduce population levels worldwide.

We have to do these things now, not later when it will be too late to stop the tide of destruction caused by our addiction to fossil fuels and centralized energy systems.....controlled by BIG OIL.

Speaking of BIG OIL.....have we really forgotten that it was BIG OIL that caused the global economy to collapse by pushing oil prices through the roof?

Are you happy with what they did? Do you really enjoy being under their control?

Do you like spending tax dollars on military ventures that serve their interests?

The solution is DECENTRALIZED ENERGY.

[ballzafire]

^^

you'll have to face up to facts and realise you're the one whose been scammed

Correct. I've been scammed, you've been scammed, and so has the whole Western world, into seeing our tax money paid to crooks for a non-solution to a non-existent problem. Yes, global warming is man-made, almost completely man-made by the crooked "scientists" at CRU and related institutions, and as a result we've all been badly scammed. Thanks for reminding me....

Most assuredly a scam. But promulgated mainly by high-level NWO members and other subhumans to dupe the public into believing that a world tax on carbon emissions is needed for the survival of the planet. The reality is they just want to use this as an excuse to bring in global govt. That's the bottom line.

Keep in mind that global warming DID occur recently but it was due to the effects of the most recent solar maximum -- not humans. Now that there is a prolonged dearth of sunspots we are witnessing a SHARP reversal in global temps, even though CO2 levels are still rising. If you watched "The Great Global Warming Swindle" you would understand why this is occurring (i.e. that the oceans are continuing to release CO2 from warming that occurred some 800 years ago).

All this is established scientific fact and only the hard-core "human-induced climate change" knuckledragging, under-educated, overzealous environmental "activists" out there continue to refuse to see this as a possibility, all the while gleefully making references to biased scientific "findings" -- findings put forth by people who have a vested interest in keeping the scam going.

So, scam or no scam, there still seems to be a lot of people that absolutely want to continue to believe that global warming is continuing, probably because they or someone they know still depends upon the "business" of global warming for their livelihoods...

Edited December 3, 2009 by ballzafire

[RickBradford]

^^

there still seems to be a lot of people that absolutely want to continue to believe that global warming is continuing, probably because they or someone they know still depends upon the "business" of global warming for their livelihoods...

I think it's even more fundamental than that. When governments set up these unaccountable bodies like the IPCC or Hadley CRU, they're virtually forced to come up with "data" that "proves" man-made global warming. If they didn't, they'd be voting themselves out of existence. So, whether their fraud is conscious or not, it's easy to see why they indulged in it.

Governments have a lot to answer for, setting up "scientific bodies" which are virtually bound to make a particular set of recommendations i.e that anthropogenic global warming is real.

But then again, governments love global warming, because it gives them the clearest possible mandate for interfering in the lives of ordinary citizens. So governments and the climate change scammers are working hand-in-hand on this. Politicized scientists and unscientific politicians dancing their way to disaster.

[teatree]

Always amazes me how 'warmers' point the finger and shout BIG OIL at scientists who are skeptical, but seem to think it is totally acceptable for governments to fund scientists who support AGW.

[chuckd]

I have a question for JR Texas.

Who is BIG OIL?

Names, companies, etc., would be appreciated.

If you don't know, please say you don't know. I cannot sleep at night not knowing who or what constitutes BIG OIL.

[JR Texas]

Already gone over that.......it is a global network of large corporations and banks controlling the entire fossil fuel energy system (financing, extraction, production, distribution, etc)........you can call it BIG OIL or BIG ENERGY........whatever........the main point is that it is BIG with CENTRALIZED CONTROL.

It is not the Blackberry Energy Solution I mentioned in an earlier post.....it is the precise opposite.

Many people think this is a conservative vs liberal argument.......it isn't. I am confident that there are conservatives, especially those in the past, that would probably want to BOLs (BIG OIL LOBBYISTS/skeptics) shot for crimes against humanity.

One comes to mind: Dwight David "Ike" Eisenhower (October 14, 1890 – March 28, 1969). As you can find on Google, he "was a five-star general in the United States Army and the 34th President of the United States, from 1953 until 1961. During the Second World War, he served as Supreme Commander of the Allied forces in Europe, with responsibility for planning and supervising the successful invasion of France and Germany in 1944–45. In 1951, he became the first supreme commander of NATO.[1] As President, he oversaw the cease-fire of the Korean War, maintained pressure on the Soviet Union during the Cold War, made nuclear weapons a higher defense priority, launched the Space Race, enlarged the Social Security program, and began the Interstate Highway System. He was the last World War I veteran to serve as U.S. president, and the last president born in the 19th century. Eisenhower ranks highly among former U.S. presidents in terms of approval rating. He was also the first term-limited president in accordance with the 22nd amendment."

He had a lot to say about the danger of the military sector merging with the industrial sector........exactly what has happened now with BIG OIL and the military working hand in hand. I think, if he were alive today, he would be furious at this development. Here are some good quotes from him:

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired, signifies in the final sense a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

If men can develop weapons that are so terrifying as to make the thought of global war include almost a sentence for suicide, you would think that man's intelligence and his comprehension... would include also his ability to find a peaceful solution.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

With regard to the last quote, a peaceful solution is within our grasp and will be necessary to develop no matter who is right and who is wrong on the issue of global climate change/warming: moving from our centralized energy platform to a decentralized energy platform.

To that, I will emphasize again, we must greatly reduce the size of the human population.

Thailand should be very concerned because if we don't do the two things mentioned above the economies of Asia will unravel--especially India's and China's--causing massive instability in the region....instability that will overwhelm any attempts by Thailand to stop it.

The good news is that China is coming to grips with this fact........I wonder how many readers know that China is producing cars that are far more fuel efficient than those produced in the USA.

That is good, but what we really need to do is to stop playing games and develop a new engine that is environmentally sound.

[chuckd]

Already gone over that.......it is a global network of large corporations and banks controlling the entire fossil fuel energy system (financing, extraction, production, distribution, etc)........you can call it BIG OIL or BIG ENERGY........whatever........the main point is that it is BIG with CENTRALIZED CONTROL.

It is not the Blackberry Energy Solution I mentioned in an earlier post.....it is the precise opposite.

Many people think this is a conservative vs liberal argument.......it isn't. I am confident that there are conservatives, especially those in the past, that would probably want to BOLs (BIG OIL LOBBYISTS/skeptics) shot for crimes against humanity.

OK, the generic description of BIG OIL as provided by you seems interesting. However, I was looking for SPECIFIC company names.

Which large banks? Which oil companies? Which large corporations?

If it is such a cabal, you must have names. I am simply asking you to provide them for me.

This is not a complicated question if you have your facts straight.

[JR Texas]

No need to go over the obvious.........and quite frankly, I would imagine they would not want me to do so and probably wish you would just shut up.

That aside, here are some interesting links that would probably upset that arch liberal Dwight D. Eisenhower :

http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/

http://thejakartaglobe.com/business/big-oi...al-abuse/155737

http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:srgXn...=clnk&gl=th

http://www.globalissues.org/article/74/the...is-big-business

Rarely do people talk about it--especially in the mainstream mass media--but the actual cost of our addiction to fossil fuel energy is immense, especially when environmental and military factors are factored into the equation.

What we are doing now is foolish beyond measure..........if the BOLs/skeptics are wrong, we will pay a big price.......and so will future generations.

And we are paying the price now........1.1 trillion dollars devoted to a military machine that is apparently under the control of BIG OIL.........untold sums of money that will have to be paid to clean up the environmental mess BIG OIL has created........then there is a medical cost (BIG OIL should be sued for what it is doing to our cities).

I could go on, but I think people who are not living in a BOL Borg Hive already get the picture........they can separate shit from Shilo.

Today is a good day.........the international conference on climate change has started............I can hear nails being driven into BIG OIL's coffin (can you hear it?)........later the coffin will be lowered and dirt thrown on it, hopefully with all of the BOLs clinging to the coffin shouting "conspiracy."

DECENTRALIZED ENERGY is the key to a better future.........a higher quality of life for all.

[chuckd]

No need to go over the obvious.........and quite frankly, I would imagine they would not want me to do so and probably wish you would just shut up.

While I can understand your fervor in attempting to avoid an uncomfortable question, telling me to "just shut up" is hardly an adult response.

I am merely questioning your blame of BIG OIL for anything and everything that is wrong with the environment and even the economy. Where is your proof and please name names?

While you can claim "they" would not want you to name them, perhaps you can explain to your avid followers who "they" are and why you assume "they" care one whit about your opinion or what you might anonymously post on an internet forum. Perhaps you have over-estimated your influence on the world scene?

I really don't feel my questions are unnecessary or even difficult. If you have researched your subject as thoroughly as you must have, then you will have the names and can provide them as requested. If you don't have any names, that is another issue.

Do you have the names of the BIG OIL conspiracy that is allegedly threatening the world or not?

Silence will merely reinforce many opinions that you really don't know what you are talking about.

[RickBradford]

Big Al speaks out!

As does the American TV host Jon Stewart

[JR Texas]

This should be interesting stuff for the BOLs to contemplate: http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/gwdeniers.html

The below listed information is not from me.....it is taken off of the above-mentioned site (many of the links did not show up, so go to the site and follow the links and learn what they are up to and why):

WHY the confusion on global warming?

For more than a decade, the best science has been telling us that the Earth is warming at an alarming rate with even more alarming consequences. Extreme droughts and floods and longer-lasting and more frequent tropical storms are on the horizon. The consensus among scientists has been that the prime cause of warming is the emissions of heat-trapping gases caused by the burning of fossil fuels. So why has global warming been largely covered in the U.S. as a debate?

For years, a network of organizations have worked together to block action on global warming. In the words of the U.K.'s Royal Society, one of the most prestigious scientific academies in the world, these groups "misrepresent the science of climate change by outright denial of the evidence." This network has been consistently funded by ExxonMobil. Since at least 1998, ExxonMobil has spent $17 to $23 million to bankroll these groups.

Today, ExxonMobil is the only known oil giant directly bankrolling global warming denier groups. The funding is part of its continued involvement in an orchestrated plan to manufacture uncertainty around climate science.

The plan, made public by The New York Times in 1998 (see clip at right), and retold recently by the Union of Concerned Scientists, employed the same strategy and some of the same personnel as the tobacco industry. The memo laid out a plan to "identify, recruit and train" a small team of unknown scientists and declared that: "Victory will be achieved when uncertainties in climate science become part of the conventional wisdom" for "average citizens" and "the media." Until now, the plan was successful. (Read more)

WHAT is a denier?

Global Warming Denier [di-nahy-er] An individual or organization that denies and distorts the science and urgency of global warming as assessed by the world's foremost authority on global warming, the United Nations Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).

The IPCC is the U.N. body that was set up in 1988 to comprehensively assess all the published climatic research. The IPCC has issued four comprehensive assessments since 1990. In 2007, after six years of work completed by 2,500 scientific expert reviewers from 130 countries, the IPCC concluded with 90 percent certainty that emissions of heat-trapping gases from human activities have caused "most of the observed increase in globally averaged temperatures since the mid-20th century." (Overview of 2007 IPCC assessments.)

WHO are the deniers?

The network of global warming deniers includes corporate lobbyists, front groups and free market anti-government organizations that try to affect public opinion and policy on global warming. They work together to form an echo chamber of views that appear to be coming from a large, unrelated constituency. In reality, they sit on each other's boards, publish each other's writings, form coalitions, use the same scientists, lobby Congress, and spread identical arguments. They often opine on additional environmental issues including, repealing the Endangered Species Act, opening up the Arctic Refuge to oil drilling, promoting liquid coal, and bringing back the toxic pesticide DDT.

Organization or Front Group

Exxon Funding 1998-2006from Exxon

Sample Denier Quotes

American Enterprise Institute

$1,860,000

Offered $10k to scientists to write a paper on the UN IPCC "...that thoughtfully explores the limitations of climate model [forecasting] outputs as they pertain to the development of climate policy..." Project was apparently canceled. (Letter, 2/5/07)

"If you look closely at the IPCC's full reports, they are hedged repeatedly in uncertainties and limitations about what we know." Hayward, (FrontPage, AEI, 5/21/07)

American Legislative Exchange Council

$1,126,200

"The science of climate change is unsettled" and the "question is how much, if any, of this warming is caused by human activities." (ALEC Analysis, Fall 2006)

Cato Institute

$125,000

" Using normal scientific standards, there is no proof we are causing the Earth to warm, let alone that such warming will cause an environmental catastrophe." (publication, 7/11/07)

Citizens for a Sound Economy Educational Foundation [2004 in FreedomWorks]

$380,250

"Don't allow our corporations to be used as pawns for a radical agenda which is not based on science...Human impact on global warming is likely negligible at best!" (Stop the Extremists on Global Warming: An open letter to ExxonMobil Shareholders, 5/26/03)

Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow (CFACT)

$567,000

"Despite the endless deluge of global warming claims there is also a mountain of climate data to dispute them." (website, 2/20/07)

Fraser Institute

$120,000

All for climate projects

"Climate change activists are exaggerating the certainty in the linkage between human action and climate change and advocating policies that offer no environmental gain, but a lot of economic pain." (Press Release, 7/21/03)

Free Enterprise Action Institute/ CSR Watch

$130,000

"...the junk science behind global warming hysteria,... subscribing to the unproven notion that humans are altering global climate for the worse..." (Top 10 Worst in 2004, 12/7/05)

Frontiers of Freedom Institute

$1,182,000

" there is a wide spectrum of opinion on almost every aspect of the subject..." (Rebuttal to Al Gore's Congressional testimony, May 2007)

"Climate has always varied, often with large swings...These dramatic climatic ebbs and flows are naturally occurring events." (Science Hill Watch, 2/2/04)

George C. Marshall Institute

$745,000

"We have at least 25 years to research this issue before CO2 emission cuts need to be considered." (A guide to global warming, accessed 10/07)

Heartland Institute

$830,000

"The supposed scientific consensus on global warming is pure fiction." (Joseph Bast, president, 6/28/07 Press release) "... warming is likely to be very modest relative to natural variation," (2007 Guidebook for State Legislators)

Heritage Foundation

$565,000

" Virtually all of the alarming rhetoric surrounding global warming is speculative and lies outside the scientific consensus.... given that global warming is not unprecedented, is not catastrophic, we really need to think seriously about the costs of some of these efforts to deal with global warming...." (Cold Facts on Global Warming, accessed 8/07)

Media Research Center

$202,500

Dedicated to revealing liberal bias media. "ABC, CBS, and NBC are giving overwhelmingly one-sided coverage to the global warming issue with numerous reports that largely mimic the talking points of former Vice President Al Gore and climate disaster alarmists..." (Press Release, 4/19/07)

National Center for Policy Analysis

$545,900

"Due to the complexities of the climate system, we currently cannot reliably connect emissions of greenhouse gases from any specific source or group of sources to an increased risk of any particular outcome..." (NCPA publication, 5/15/06)

National Center for Public Policy Research/ EnviroTruth

$335,000

"the science implicating human activity on global warming is uncertain and speculative" (testimony of Sr. Fellow Thomas J. Borelli, 6/29/07)

"There is no serious evidence that man-made global warming is taking place." (NCPPR website, 4/04)

Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy

$430,000

This example misinforms readers by confusing weather with climate: "Warming theorists warn that there is more to come, but as farmers know, the weather does not always cooperate with predictions." (Capital Ideas, 8/15/07)

The Advancement of Sound Science Center and Junkscience.com

$50,000

"Global warming alarmists, such as the UN's Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC),..."

Milloy replays hackneyed arguments that attempt to disprove the IPCC conclusions of the state of science.

HOW do we counter the deniers?

Identify them: If you read an article that includes the view of someone denying the science or urgency of global warming supported by the IPCC, chances are they are linked to a scientist or organization funded by ExxonMobil. Use the resources below to identify deniers.

ExxonSecrets.org: The most comprehensive network of Exxon-funded groups that fight global warming science, policy or both. (Greenpeace USA)

Sourcewatch.org: Tracks the propaganda activities of groups and individuals engaged in manipulating public perception, opinion and policy. (Center for Media and Democracy)

Smoke, Mirrors and Hot Air: List of Exxon-funded groups who either deny the science of global warming or have received climate-specific grants from Exxon since 1998. (Union of Concerned Scientists, 2007)

Global warming deniers: Select list of Exxon-funded groups that openly deny the accepted climate science and the assessments of the IPCC. (Exxpose Exxon coalition, 2007)

DeSmogBlog.com: Comments on the activities and spin coming from Exxon-funded groups on global warming. (Ross Gelbspan, Jim Hoggan, and other prominent researchers)

Counter their arguments: The disinformation spread by global warming deniers or naysayers can sound convincing, especially when they show up everywhere on the blogosphere. They use hackneyed claims already dismissed or cherry pick a single study or event to try to cast doubt on the entirety. None of the groups or their associated individuals has any standing in established climate science nor do they publish their contrarian views in respected peer-reviewed scientific journals. The links below provide answers to some of the deniers' most common erroneous claims.

26 Climate Myths: A guide for the perplexed - (pdf) (New Scientist)

Al Gore's An Inconvenient Truth – Answers to 9 "errors" (Gavin Schmidt and Michael Mann featured on RealClimate.org)

How to talk to a Climate Skeptic (Grist: Environmental News and Commentary)

How do we know we're not wrong? Book chapter (Naomi Oreskes, Univ. of CA San Diego)

Highlights of the 2007 IPCC Assessments (Union of Concerned Scientists)

Be a source of knowledge: History tends to repeat itself. Even as the battle to enact strong climate policy is won, it is critical that we document the role played by ExxonMobil and the denier organizations. Below are some key articles and reports to arm you with an adequate understanding of the historical battle for action on global warming.

Top 10 Investigative News Stories about global warming deniers.

The Exxon Double-Cross: Exxon-Funded Global Warming Deniers Get Renewed Funding in 2006

(Greenpeace USA, May 2007)

Smoke, Mirrors & Hot Air: How ExxonMobil Uses Big Tobacco’s Tactics to Manufacture Uncertainty on Climate Change

(Union of Concerned Scientists, January 2007)

Report on how ExxonMobil adopted the tobacco industry’s disinformation tactics, as well as some of the same personnel, to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action.

ExxonMobil Exposed: More Drilling, More Global Warming, More Oil Dependence

(Exxpose Exxon, July 2005)

Report on the reasons the environmental community joined together to Exxpose Exxon.

Exxon's Weapons of Mass Deception

(Greenpeace International, October 2002)

Report detailing ExxonMobil's efforts to distort public opinion and derail international negotiations on global warming.

Denial and Deception: A Chronicle of ExxonMobil's Corruption of the Debate on Global Warming

(Greenpeace USA, May 2002)

Report detailing ExxonMobil's various efforts to derail action on global warming.

Huuuuuuuuuummmmmmmmmmm...........who is messing with the data?

[chuckd]

You have still not answered my question about BIG OIL. Do you have the nerve or knowledge to do so?

By the way, this is from your Exxpose Exxon site.

_________________________________________________________

About Us

The Exxpose Exxon campaign is a collaborative effort of some of the nation's largest environmental and public advocacy organizations to educate and activate the public about ExxonMobil's efforts to block action on global warming, drill in the Arctic Refuge, and keep America addicted to oil. To learn more, see Why ExxonMobil? and Frequently Asked Questions

FOUNDING MEMBERS

Defenders of Wildlife

Defenders of Wildlife is a leading nonprofit conservation organization recognized as one of the nation's most progressive advocates for wildlife and its habitat.

Greenpeace

Greenpeace is the leading independent campaigning organization that uses non-violent direct action and creative communication to expose global environmental problems and to promote solutions that are essential to a green and peaceful future.

Natural Resources Defense Council

NRDC uses law, science, and the support of its members to protect the planet's wildlife and wild places and ensure a safe and healthy environment for all people.

Sierra Club

The Sierra Club works to inspire all Americans to explore, enjoy and protect the Earth's wild places, to practice and promote responsible use of the Earth's ecosystems and resources and to work to restore the quality of the natural environment that sustains us, for our families, for our future.

U.S. Public Interest Research Group (U.S. PIRG)

U.S. PIRG is the national association of the state PIRGs. The state PIRGs are a network of independent, state-based, citizen-funded organizations that work to protect our environment, encourage a fair and sustainable economy, and foster a responsive democratic government.

Union of Concerned Scientists

The Union of Concerned Scientists is a nonprofit partnership of scientists and citizens combining rigorous scientific analysis, innovative policy development and effective citizen advocacy to achieve practical environmental solutions.

COALITION PARTNERS

Alaska Oceans Program

The Alaska Oceans Program works to protect and restore the amazing diversity of the North Pacific's ocean ecology, including fish, wildlife, and seabirds and their habitat, while providing for sustainable human uses.

Alaska Wilderness League

The Alaska Wilderness League works to protect Alaska's lands and waters, promote national and local recognition of Alaska's spectacular environment, and advocate on behalf of Alaska's environment in Washington, DC.

Co-op America

Our mission is to harness economic power—the strength of consumers, investors, businesses, and the marketplace—to create a socially just and environmentally sustainable society.

Corporate Accountability International

Corporate Accountability International is a membership organization that protects people by waging and winning campaigns that challenge irresponsible and dangerous corporate actions around the world. For over 25 years, we have forced corporations like Nestlé, General Electric and Philip Morris/Altria to stop abusive practices.

EcoPledge

Ecopledge works to reform negative environmental practices of major corporations through direct contact with the companies, followed by action and boycotts as necessary. We work for wilderness preservation and biodiversity, pure water and safe food, and clean air and energy.

Friends of the Earth

As the U.S voice of an international network spanning 70 countries, Friends of the Earth champions a more healthy and just world.

Environmental Action

Environmental Action is a national grassroots environmental organization that builds and mobilizes the power of ordinary Americans to protect our environment from special interest polluters and their allies in government.

MoveOn.org Political Action

MoveOn.org Political Action is a national, grassroots organization of 3.3 million Americans working to bring ordinary people back into politics. Through advocacy and political organizing in their communities and on the Internet, MoveOn members impact public opinion, legislation, elections and the direction of our democracy.

National Environmental Trust

With experience in media relations, issue campaign management, government affairs, federal environmental law, and investigative research, NET provides public education campaign and communications expertise on national environmental issues.

Oil Change International

Oil Change International campaigns to expose the true costs of oil and facilitate the coming transition towards clean energy. We are dedicated to identifying and overcoming political barriers to that transition.

Public Citizen

Since 1971, Public Citizen represents consumer rights in the marketplace, safe and affordable health care, transportation safety, clean and safe energy sources, environmental protection, fair trade, campaign finance reform, and corporate and government accountability through advocacy, litigation, research and public education.

TrueMajority

TrueMajority was founded by Ben Cohen, Co-founder, Ben and Jerry's. It is a grassroots education and advocacy project of Priorities, Inc., a non-profit, non-partisan, tax-deductible, 501©(3) corporation.

CONTACT US

Exxpose Exxon Campaign

218 D Street, SE

Washington, DC 20003

I have removed their web sites but I find it interesting who the sponsors of this web site really are. I'm only surprised PETA wasn't one of the founding partners.

____________________________________________

[RickBradford]

Greenpeace USA

Greenpeace International

Exxpose Exxon

Union of Concerned Scientists

Oh, is this a representative sample of what you've been calling 'responsible scientists'? If so, that explains a lot.

The CO²mmunists at CRU have admitted their politically-driven data manipulation, so the answer to your question:

who is messing with the data?

The extremists at Hadley CRU, IPCC et al.

[ace]

Agree, parts of Thailand will be seriously affected by rising sea levels, particularly that megapolis known as Bangkok.

That's a mis-direction if not an outright lie. Bangkok is sinking (rapidly actually) due to being built on a swamp. I have mentioned this previousley in this thread.

Facts, truth is all we sceptics ask for.

[JR Texas]

Agree, parts of Thailand will be seriously affected by rising sea levels, particularly that megapolis known as Bangkok.

That's a mis-direction if not an outright lie. Bangkok is sinking (rapidly actually) due to being built on a swamp. I have mentioned this previousley in this thread.

Facts, truth is all we sceptics ask for.

If it is sinking why magnify the problem by ignoring the impact of global warming/climate change? Sinking plus rising sea levels = disaster.

The BOLs/skeptics are not interested in "truth." The last thing you want is for truth to surface.

All you do is manipulate facts, distort views, participate in character/science assassination attempts, support the theft of private emails.......you are most definitely on the wrong side of this. You will stop at nothing to stop positive change.

Decentralize energy is the key to a better future. It puts power and control in the hands of the people and removes it from BIG OIL. You have lost the actual scientific debate and now are like children screaming "unfair........you cheated."

You are, in fact, among those that cheated. And when BIG OIL and the BOLs are buried and dead, I for one will stand over your grave, smile, plant flowers, spit, and then walk away to a better future.

[JetsetBkk]

This should be interesting stuff for the BOLs to contemplate: http://www.exxposeexxon.com/facts/gwdeniers.html

The below listed information is not from me.....<snip>

You don't really expect us to read all that, do you? The more stuff you cut and paste, the more it looks like you are panicking because you're losing the debate. Try making just one point per post, and make it a fact, not an opinion.