Brothels? Not Any More!

[Johpa]

> The 7 million estimate is not crazy at all.

I agree it's not crazy, but keep in mind that this figure was DESIGNED to sound very high. The purpose of giving that statistic is to be able to give a very high number. So while it may very well be correct, you need to keep in mind that this figure is for any woman (or man?) WHO AT ANY TIME IN HER LIFETIME, even just ONCE has received money for sex.

I think a far more relevant statistic, ESPECIALLY relevant when you're an NGO trying to reduce prostitution, mind you, would be the actual number of prostitutes at ANY GIVEN TIME! It's a complete no-brainer that this is the more useful statistic,

I am the one who came up with the 7 million figure based upon current demographics and estimates that 30% of all Thai women have, at one time, exchanged sex for money or gifts. There was no design in my figure, just math. And I have repeatedly stated that this is a figure for the population as a whole over time.

There is value to both statistics of numbers over time and current numbers. Either way, whether it is 30% at one time or another or 2% of the current population, it shows a society with a significant social and economic problems, a dysfunctional society indeed.

[marsbloke]

Mars Bloke

Do you come from there??

cutethaigirl

Mars Bloke

Do you come from there??

No, Cute Thai Girl, there's no oxygen on Mars to support my heavy breathing :-)

[stroll]

Here a few of my search results, if I suspect another neighbour of renting their children out, after I report it to the local police, I'll contact any of these:

Area of work: Thailand

The National Youth Bureau

618/1 Nikommakkasan Road, Rajthevee, Bangkok 10400, Thailand

+66 2 253 9122-3

+66 2 255 8899

[email protected]

Protection

Name: ECPAT - International Secretariat

Address: 328 Phaya Thai Road

City: Bangkok

Code: 10400

State/Province:

Contact Person:

Tel: 66 2 215 3388

Fax: 66 2 215 8272

E-mail: [email protected]

Url: http://www.ecpat.net

Membership status: Non Governmental Organisation (NGO)

BANGKOK

Field Office

Mail Address

UNICEF

P.O. Box 2-154

Bangkok 10200, Thailand

Visitors’ Address

UNICEF

19 Phra Atit Road

Chanasongkram, Phra Nakorn

Bangkok 10200, Thailand

Telephone

02 356.9499

280.5931

Facsimile

281.6032 - Representative

Email

[email protected]

This is somewhat incomplete, and I haven't tried to report anything yet, so do your own further research.

[chanchao]

I heard p1p comment that he did work for/was involved with ECPAT in the past. Perhaps he can comment on how viable that route is, to inform ECPAT when there are suspicions about certain individuals?

Thanks, Stroll for that research. I think we also need some local Chiang Mai people/organisations, perhaps someone else can suggest some?

Cheers,

Chanchao

[chanchao]

Thanks Sow Jiang Mai for answering my questions and, yet-again, for the generous dose of insight and common sense!!!

Turning things around, I think Regina would indeed be the last place where potential sugardaddies would go hunt for mia nois and mistresses. (And it's not like most students there would really need the money either.)

I actually thought CMU students were WAY innocent, shy and rather sheltered when I was studying there. Fortunately most of that batch caught up since then. (They're pushing their thirties now.

Cheers,

Chanchao

[astral]

.......... young children selling flowers in tourist areas late at night. There seem to be an especially large number of children involved compared to (hilltribe) poor people selling flowers in other parts of the city.

These kids are obviously in a vulnerable position, not to mention that no 5-12 year old kid should be walking the streets every night until 2am..

Very True.

BUT in the eyes of the authorities those children do not matter,

they are no THAI!!

[Ajarn]

.......... young children selling flowers in tourist areas late at night. There seem to be an especially large number of children involved compared to (hilltribe) poor people selling flowers in other parts of the city.

These kids are obviously in a vulnerable position, not to mention that no 5-12 year old kid should be walking the streets every night until 2am.. 

Very True.

BUT in the eyes of the authorities those children do not matter,

they are no THAI!!

Not always true, actually. There are a number of Thai kids (sometimes whole families) out there selling flowers into the night. Not so much in the downtown areas, but more on the outskirts, in my experience, and at main Super hiway and middle ring road intersections, until ahout 10pm, it seems.

And the authorities still aren't showing interest in their welfare, either. Even under the new child protection laws, where parents are now accountable, and authorities have farther-reaching powers to affect action.....

How do you encourage police to do their jobs without them doing their jobs on you?

[p1p]

I heard p1p comment that he did work for/was involved with ECPAT in the past.  Perhaps he can comment on how viable that route is, to inform ECPAT when there are suspicions about certain individuals?

My work with, not for, ECPAT was in Europe, not Thailand and was strictly at a governmental/political level concerning prosecution for sexual crimes comitted extraterritorially. So I'm afraid I have little to comment on organisations here although I remain a trustee of a couple of organisations fighting child sexual abuse etc..

My offer stands to put any factual information in the hands of safe authorities who WILL act. I have the contacts to guarantee that and complete confidentiality, if required, for any with information to impart.

Failing myself, others with the contacts to ensure matters are treated seriously are, of course, Khun Pim (Sao Jiang Mai) at Chiamg Mai Citylife and Khun David, the deputy ed at Good Morning Chiang Mai magazine.

Time to close the thread yet??

[Georgie-Porgie]

How do you encourage police to do their jobs without them doing their jobs on you?

The eternal question!

[john b good]

Sorry for going on so long! As Pope wrote to a friend, 'I didn't have time to write a shorter letter'!

You're forgiven.

One thing though is just where does one find a copy of your mag. I have seen a couple of issues and thought that they weren't all that bad.

They seem to disappear off the stands within days of the beginning of the month.

IMHO there are only a couple of decent mags available here and and yours and GMCM are them.

The others (the other mags) would be best suited for wrapping fish and chips except that the paper size is too small.

[p1p]

Collect from Mango Tree among other illustrious establishments. Although we sometimes lack enough GMCM mags. (Hint - Hint, David!!)

[ThaiPauly]

And due to the fact that he started his career as a 6000 baht per month policeman,he should be able to do wonders with all illegal aspects of life in Thailand.

And as you say,he is from CMX ,he should have a good feel for the things there.

6,000 baht is what they get NOW I bet when he started he was on about 1000 bht a month.

What an investor he is!!!

[Ajarn]

And due to the fact that he started his career as a 6000 baht per month policeman,he should be able to do wonders with all illegal aspects of life in Thailand.

And as you say,he is from CMX ,he should have a good feel for the things there.

6,000 baht is what they get NOW I bet when he started he was on about 1000 bht a month.

What an investor he is!!!

More like 4,000 then, but Thaksin surely didn't have to live off that money...His family has been quite well off for a long time with Shinawatra Silk, and such. Word is, his wife is the real brains behind his business success. Of course, his government-guaranteed monopolies on supplying computers and pagers to the government is what made him rich

[Maejo Man]

Of course, his government-guaranteed monopolies on supplying computers and pagers to the government is what made him rich

To say nothing of the monopoly he guarded for years with the AIS network, or of Shinsat Corp, or of his massive holdings in one of Thailand's most lucrative enterprises....The cement industry. He has more fingers in more pies than Jack Horner!

[ChiangMaiThai]

Sorry but that is absolutely nonsense John B Good. I don't know what people your respected friend associates herself with.  I went to Regina Coeli school for 10 years and upon graduation one girl in a class of 160 wasn't a virgin (we were 15, now we are 30).  Most of my friends remained so until marriage, many others were involved with boyfriends, a few were kept, but considering we are 160 middle class women, I would say less than 5% of these girls have gone on in life to do something we all consider a bit dodgy - mostly mia noy, only one a prostitute.

To say that most girls in CMU are on the game is just utter ignorance.  Its farang men with this attitude that so annoys us Thais.  Sure, many are, but the numbers you cite are just way out of porportion.  Believe it or not, Thai society does not condone this behaviour, so its hardly a good career move.  Only two types at CMU hook 1. the desperate, 2. the shallow and vain who want a better lifestyle.  The majority are decent women trying to get an education.

A very well educated and well informed Thai teacher who I am friend's with told me that 'absolutely, at least 40% of Payap girls are hooking in their spare time'. That I believe

Why does it seem like common sense is being tossed out the window with some of you guys? Which head are some of you guys using to think up this stuff?

How is this teacher going to know ABSULUTELY that at least 40% of Payap girls are hooking???

A totally ridiculous statement. The ONLY way this could possibly make sense would be if your teacher friend is the one using the 40%+ students himself...This is obviously bullshit, as is the statement from your teacher friend

Look, a very well educated and well informed THAI teacher who has been involved with a number of universities in Chiang Mai for nearly 10 years on a full time basis estimates that 40% are hooking. So maybe its 30%. Maybe its 50%. I found this a bit surprising myself until I asked my Thai friends what they thought and they guessed in the 50% range.

Why do you find this so hard to believe? If it was said of CMU or Mahidol, okay, its obviously bullshit, but Payap and a number of other uni's across the whole country are a different story. Are you in denial? Why do I get the feeling that you either teach at Payap or have a GF who attends?

Look, I taught full time in Thai schools for 16 years, mostly in universities, including CMU and Payap. I am no more an authority on percentages of student prostitutes than your friend... As I said, there is ONLY one way for your friend to know ABSOLUTELY.

Some bullshit is easy to see if your eyes are open....And just because a Thai person has an opinion doesn't mean they have any more of a clue than you. Tons of bullshit flies around among people who don't a clue, but still have an opinion

Oh, apologies for the crack about thinking with your penis. I'm sure it didn't help you to see things my way, and I would like you to 'get it'...

I agree that no one can know absolutely. (By the way, the teacher in question is a woman.) However, when it comes to the opinion of a farang who, admittedly has many years of teaching experience and a Thai who also has many years of teaching experience, I will put all my money on the Thai. Especially when I consider the fact that all my Thai friends who went through the local uni's within the past few years all put the estimate in the 50% range.

No matter how many years you stay here. No matter how well you perfect that accent and no matter how Thai you think you have become, you are always on the outside and the Thais will always have a more accurate guage as to what is going on. But that's just my opinion. P1P close the thread so I can have final say

I agree that no one can know absolutely

Now you change your mind. Good. You got my point

By the way, this is not some kind of credibility contest between me and any Thai teacher. My years of Thai experience have nothing to do with my message to you.

If you are going to rely on the opinions of Thais, or anyone else, and present them as facts here, don't be surprised when someone steps up to point out the fact that, hey, you don't have one bit of fact to back even one word of anything you've said. Your opinion, based on hearsay, personal predjudices, personal fanatasies....whatever. No personal knowledge or experience of any sort, it seems. Just reported gossip.

Or maybe I've missed something?

MY OPINION BASED ON PERSONAL FANTASIES ETC.??? What has gone wrong in your head? What personal fantasy leads me to accept that 40% is a reasonable estimate? What personal fantasy leads me to hold a Thai's educated opinion in higher esteem than that of a farang's?

Now I know without a doubt that you have a vested interest in convincing yourself that only .005% of Payap girls are prostitutes.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure you will), but you appear to be yet another farang who after spending significant time here decides that he is an absolute expert. If this is truly the case, may I suggest you leave your post as an (English?) teacher for a position with an esteemed international publication?

Why do you discount the opinions of so many Thais, especially when you know that one has taught for a decade in these institutions and the others have studied there? What leads you to believe that they are simply misinformed, while you know the facts?

I have absolutely no vested interest in promoting any statistics as to the level of prostitution at Payap. Whether its 0% or 100%, it makes no difference to me. I am simply relating information given to me by solid sources. I am told that roughly 40% actively participate in some form of prostitution. I trust my sources and I trust that this figure represents a reasonable estimate.

[ChiangMaiThai]

CMT, you say alot of your griends say the number is 50%. So just usung numbers 50% of your "friends" would of been selling "it". Down south fo you we have uni,colleges and tech. schools and see many of these girls out in the evening in discos,bars,pubs, etc. Rarely will it be possible to pick one up. There's a couple bars with take-out but only about 10% of these dek seves go out for cash..Find it hard to believe 50% of students will do it and maybe 10% of the ones who you'd think would be more open to this concept.

Firstly, we're talking about girls at a certain uni in Chiang Mai, not all Thai girls in general.

I imagine the percentages vary greatly depending on the uni. Also, of course there is a whole world of prostitution between the Thais that you and I will not be exposed to. Believe it or not, there's plenty of Thai girls who prefer to be a mia noi of a wealthy Thai than be seen out in public as just another mia farang. These girls aren't hanging out at bars and discos trying to pick up customers. They don't need to. They have one or two guys paying there way through school and life in exchange for special services. You and I will never know for sure just how many such arrangements are currently out there, but based on the opinions of my Thai friends, they are anything but rare.

At any rate, I am passing on the estimates of Thais who are well informed.

I, myself am not especially well informed but I would guess that the uni in question in Chiang Mai probably has a pro rate of about 30%. But that's just me...

[Ajarn]

Really, sir, you seem to be reading MUCH more into my words than I've said..

MY OPINION BASED ON PERSONAL FANTASIES ETC.???

I hoped, "based on hearsay, personal predjudices, personal fanatasies....whatever". would put my statement in the proper perspective. Of course, I don't know where your opinion is rooted, but the possibilities I listed are where many factless opinions seem to come from, in my experience. Not a personal attack from me, merely to point out the unsubstantiated numbers you are promoting

a Thai's educated opinion

Okay, what does 'educated opinion' mean to you? Simply a Thai with a general education, giving their opinion, it seems. To me, it means an opinion from a Thai with direct knowlege or education in the topic they are giving an opinion about. A Thai with zero formal education can still offer a valid 'educated' opinion on such things on being Thai, etc...

How did this teacher come to this conclusion? Did she do a study? Is her academic speciality 'prostitution among Payap students' ? What qualifies her opinion as 'educated'. Your hypothesis isn't supported by anything, that I can see.

Now I know without a doubt that you have a vested interest in convincing yourself that only .005% of Payap girls are prostitutes.

Wow, your judgements and observations are way off. I offered no numbers or percentages, and I gave no evidence of some sort of vested interest. Paranoid?

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure you will), but you appear to be yet another farang who after spending significant time here decides that he is an absolute expert

I have never said anything to suggest that, but some people here do seem threatened by my comments or experiences at times. As I have stated before, I have little time for fragile egos. I do try to be honest and straightforward, without any hidden agendas or 'sideways' comments. I'm here to learn and to share with others. My intention is to be fair and balanced, and to be open to straightforward communication- but not someone's ranting, closed-minded bullshit. If you have any evidence of my being different than I've just stated, then please let me know in an honest and clean way. Comments such as I quoted above are not conducive to good communication and, to me, signals that the speaker has their reasoning mind maybe turned off, for, again, your hypothesis is not supported by any facts that I'm aware of.

Why do you discount the opinions of so many Thais, especially when you know that one has taught for a decade in these institutions and the others have studied there? What leads you to believe that they are simply misinformed, while you know the facts?

Oh, my, here we go again. The only 'fact' I've stated is that your teacher friend has no evidence to be seen to back her opinion. I've suggested nothing to say that I know better than Thais, nor do I discount the credible opinions of Thais, or anyone else. Again, if you have evidence otherwise, please present it.

I am simply relating information given to me by solid sources. I am told that roughly 40% actively participate in some form of prostitution. I trust my sources and I trust that this figure represents a reasonable estimate.

You are welcome to trust anyone you want. So far, your opinion of 'solid sources' does not match mine, and I've clearly stated why in ever message I've posted.

Anyway, enough of my beating my head against the wall. If you have any other comments that aren't unwarranted personal attacks on me, then please say them, I'm willing to listen with an open mind. But, it takes two of like mind for this to work.

[john b good]

Quote by ChiangMaiThai...............

Why do you discount the opinions of so many Thais, especially when you know that one has taught for a decade in these institutions and the others have studied there? What leads you to believe that they are simply misinformed, while you know the facts?

I have absolutely no vested interest in promoting any statistics as to the level of prostitution at Payap. Whether its 0% or 100%, it makes no difference to me. I am simply relating information given to me by solid sources. I am told that roughly 40% actively participate in some form of prostitution. I trust my sources and I trust that this figure represents a reasonable estimate.

Agreed.

The sources that I quoted earlier in the thread, as having told me the figures were both successful business woman one with a masters from Ramkhamhaeng and the second with bachelors from the same institution. And certainly not involved in the elicit activities so I would call them neutral in their opinions and in the way that they arrived at them.

Both are Thai and I am sure neither would denigrate Thailands reputation (whats that??) unless it were true.

And another ChaingMaiThai quote.....

They don't need to. They have one or two guys paying there way through school and life in exchange for special services.

And if they are providing these "special services" for pecunary gain, what would/should they be called. I know that they themselves wouldn't like to be called such but they are hookers, purely and simply.

It's a waste of time indulging in semantics as, for some it allows them the luxury of burying ones head in the sand. But it doesn't change the facts. Prostitutes are hookers, hookers are prostitutes. ad infinitum

Sopenee or egaree it's all the same. (when push comes to shove, no pun intended)

Some people who have added posts to this thread (in all sincerity I don't doubt)

would still need convincing even if it were conducted under their very nose (s)

Generally the girls mother is aware that her daughter is hooking but the father wants to believe his little girl wouldn't do that (would she?)

But doesn't something trigger the question "where is my lass getting the money from to buy the latest mobile phone, handbags, clothes, tuition fees etc) when the parents don't have that sort of money.

Personally I believe the thread has gone as far as it can go.

[ChiangMaiThai]

Okay, what does 'educated opinion' mean to you? Simply a Thai with a general education, giving their opinion, it seems. To me, it means an opinion from a Thai with direct knowlege or education in the topic they are giving an opinion about. A Thai with zero formal education can still offer a valid 'educated' opinion on such things on being Thai, etc...

How did this teacher come to this conclusion? Did she do a study? Is her academic speciality 'prostitution among Payap students' ? What qualifies her opinion as 'educated'. Your hypothesis isn't supported by anything, that I can see.

The kind of evidence you are looking for doesn't exist. These girls aren't going to participate in any kind of survey.

All we can do is listen to those in the know and draw conclusions. In this case, I am not the only poster who has Thai associates who are closely involved with the universities and can offer a reasonable estimate. Being a THAI techer at a number of universities for 10 years plus in my mind qualifies them to make estimates. I think we can assume that the estimate is based on their constant involvement with the students IN ADDITION TO the fact that they are Thai and speak Thai absolutley fluently and will therefore always be privy to information that you and I will remain blissfully unaware of.

As a farang teacher with 16 years teaching experience, what is your estimate for Payap?

[Ajarn]

Okay, what does 'educated opinion' mean to you? Simply a Thai with a general education, giving their opinion, it seems. To me, it means an opinion from a Thai with direct knowlege or education in the topic they are giving an opinion about. A Thai with zero formal education can still offer a valid 'educated' opinion on such things on being Thai, etc...

How did this teacher come to this conclusion? Did she do a study? Is her academic speciality 'prostitution among Payap students' ? What qualifies her opinion as 'educated'. Your hypothesis isn't supported by anything, that I can see.

The kind of evidence you are looking for doesn't exist. These girls aren't going to participate in any kind of survey.

All we can do is listen to those in the know and draw conclusions. In this case, I am not the only poster who has Thai associates who are closely involved with the universities and can offer a reasonable estimate. Being a THAI techer at a number of universities for 10 years plus in my mind qualifies them to make estimates. I think we can assume that the estimate is based on their constant involvement with the students IN ADDITION TO the fact that they are Thai and speak Thai absolutley fluently and will therefore always be privy to information that you and I will remain blissfully unaware of.

As a farang teacher with 16 years teaching experience, what is your estimate for Payap?

I have never met one from Payap, so there might not be any.

Okay, my head's not that far in the sand

Of course, human nature tells us that there are people hooking, in various forms, throughout Thai society, as well as every other society I'm aware, I feel sure.

But, I feel it would be irresponsible of me to suggest a percentage or number of hookers at Payap. I have no evidence, so anything I say would only be my unsubstantiated opinion, as is yours. It is pointless conjecture, from my way of looking at things. I'm a Scientist, so I prefer to use facts and personal experiences when expressing my opinion. I try to qualify every post I make here, since my goal is to be clear, fair, and reasonable. (insert angel image here)

Even as a Teacher with 16 years teaching experience here, there are plenty of topics where my opinion would not be an educated opinion, were I to offer it. Numbers of hookers at Payap is just one such issue

And, lets not forget that not all opinions are even 'honest' . How can one know what kind of personal predjudices may be at work?

I would still be interested to know how your teacher friend came to her conclusion, and you don't seem to know, since I've asked you this at least a couple of times. Maybe next time you talk with her, you could ask, and let us know. Maybe she does know what she's talking about, and credible evidence on such a topic would certainly be interesting, if not educational, to many here, including myself.

I am here to learn,too, na'?

CMT, I hope there are no hard feelings. Maybe my confronting your figures felt like I was in your face too much. Admittedly, I intended to be in your face, but not too much

[ChiangMaiThai]

No hard feelings. TV is my place for healthy debate while I should be doing something more productive.

I will ask the teacher how she comes to this conclusion. If we accept that of course we will never know the exact number, then the next interesting question is what leads so many Thais to estimate that a significant portion of the student body is up for sale?

Keep in mind that the same isn't being said of CMU and others.

Is it a well deserved reputation or simple slander?

Maybe I'll infiltrate Payap and do a little up close and personal research.

[KevinN]

I really don't know what is going on here as I have just read page 8 and ain't going thru all of it.

But I do know that univ. students are in the business of trading favors for phone cards and other phone bills,, My Thai father in law has 2 students that he does business with and the family is pissed.

Also we go to an ice cream shop in town a lot and in the early afternoon, there usually is a few student girls there and they will be setting with older Thai men and during the coarse of the encounter, there is phone bills being passed to the gent.and a lot of laughing and some serious talking, My wife who is a teacher told me that is the way that a lot of girls afford to be on their cell phones all the time.

Now maybe this has nothing to do with this thread,,so if not,just ignore it.

[Lordfoul]

Now that this thread has calmed down a bit, there are a few things I would like to throw out here for people to think about when the see statistics in regards to Student prostitution.

This is not aimed at any one specific so there is no need for anyone to get defensive.

Consider the source- Teachers: Teachers in Thailand are respected authority figures, however a student would likely never confide in a teacher about such a shameful thing as being involved with prostitution. Thais loose face at the drop of a hat and Prostitution is a big drop for a student.

Teachers Part 2: There is usually a generation gap between teachers and students. The way a female student today acts around male students would be completely unacceptable when the teacher was a student, this can lead to a possibly false impression that the student is promiscuous or even a prostitute.

Newspapers: Newspapers are not in the news business they are in the money making business, Stories are written in such a way to get people to buy the paper. Most likely there is some truth in the article, but issues are blown up to shock and scare people. If a few students are found doing something morally unacceptable in Thai society then the headline will read “Thai students everywhere are sexy crazy!!!!!!”

Students at Other Universities: Students can be very Petty. A student at a respected university such as CMU will often look down on a student from a school like Payap. One reason is because Payap is a “If you have the money you get a diploma” type school.. most if not all students at Payap didn’t test high enough to get into a government university and because Payap is very expensive The student there often come from wealthier families. Plenty of reason to spread misinformation about Payap students.

Lets also consider that if a University such as Payap truly had a high percentage of prostitutes (even 5%) then it would have a reputation for it. If Payap had this Reputation then young woman who were not interested in prostituting themselves would not attend Payap for fear of being thought of as a prostitute. Therefore Payap would either be a prostitute only school or out of business. Don’t forget where we are, “Face” is everything here.

Of course there are likely to be some student prostitution and some “Kept” women but it seems unlikely that it’s a very high percentage at any school.

Well just some things to think about..

/SM

[Ajarn]

LF, trying to confuse the folks with some common sense?

[RamdomChances]

a prostitute only school

Do they have these here,what do they teach.

[Lordfoul]

LF, trying to confuse the folks with some common sense? 

Sorry sir, I will try not to do it again

a prostitute only school

Do they have these here,what do they teach.

I had a feeling someone was going to pick up on that

But to give your joke a serious answer. Yes they do. There is (maybe was) at least one school in Bangkok where they teach Sex workers (and Ex-) Real world skills so they can get out/stay out of that field. I don't know if has been succesfull and I can't remember what the place is called.

/SM

[Ajarn]

There is (maybe was) at least one school in Bangkok where they teach Sex workers (and Ex-) Real world skills so they can get out/stay out of that field. I don't know if has been succesfull and I can't remember what the place is called.

/SM

Maybe you are thinking of Empower?

EMPOWER Foundation, supports women in the sex industry

57/60 Tivanond Road

Nontburi 11000, Thailand

Tel: 02-526-8311, 02-968-8021,

02-968-8022

Fax: 02-526-3294

http://www.geocities.com/wari9/thailand.htm

Has a list of many other women's organizations in Thailand, including hilltribe women's rights.

[Lordfoul]

There is (maybe was) at least one school in Bangkok where they teach Sex workers (and Ex-) Real world skills so they can get out/stay out of that field. I don't know if has been succesfull and I can't remember what the place is called.

/SM

Maybe you are thinking of Empower?

EMPOWER Foundation, supports women in the sex industry

57/60 Tivanond Road

Nontburi 11000, Thailand

Tel: 02-526-8311, 02-968-8021,

02-968-8022

Fax: 02-526-3294

That just might be the place. This is the website http://www.empowerfoundation.org/ incase anyone is interested.

/SM

[Johpa]

Students at Other Universities: Students can be very Petty. A student at a respected university such as CMU will often look down on a student from a school like Payap. One reason is because Payap is a “If you have the money you get a diploma” type school.. most if not all students at Payap didn’t test high enough to get into a government university and because Payap is very expensive The student there often come from wealthier families. Plenty of reason to spread misinformation about Payap students.

Gee, I always seemed to think that the average student at CMU came from a far wealthier background than did the average student at Phayap. I always felt that the reason the CMU students looked down upon Phayap and Mae Jo students was more due to the average initial family economic status. I mean if a student comes from a wealthy family and can't test or cheat their way to CMU, why would they send them to Phayap when there are so many pay-for-your-degree colleges in the US brimming with Thai students. Has Phayap changed that much over the past decade that it is now seen as a pay for degree college? I once had the good fortune to meet Dr. Amnuay. I am not sure if he still is head of Phayap. But he was not the type to be interested in a pay-for-your-degree college.

And we should not even discuss what the snotty stuck up CMU student body thinks of the kids at the commercial and occupational colleges.

I also knew of more minority kids on scholarship at Phayap than at CMU.

[Lordfoul]

Gee, I always seemed to think that the average student at CMU came from a far wealthier background than did the average student at Phayap

Thats has not Been my experience. But I am willing to be wrong. Payap is much more expensive than CMU. I think you will find there are a lot less advantaged kids going to CMU.

I always felt that the reason the CMU students looked down upon Phayap and Mae Jo students was more due to the average initial family economic status.

Mae Jo is interesting it is more Expensive than CMU and less expensive than Payap, It has Lower testing requirements than CMU but Higher than Payap. I have also Heard Mae Jo refered to as a school to go Buy a degree .. but not to the same extent as Payap

(We are still talking about perception not necessarily fact)

I mean if a student comes from a wealthy family and can't test or cheat their way to CMU, why would they send them to Phayap when there are so many pay-for-your-degree colleges in the US brimming with Thai students.

I wan't speaking of Wealthy Familys I was speaking of wealthier familys. Most of the students in either school would likely be no higher than (upper)Middle Class. If they were Wealthy they probably wouldn't bother with a school in the North.

Has Phayap changed that much over the past decade that it is now seen as a pay for degree college? I once had the good fortune to meet Dr. Amnuay. I am not sure if he still is head of Phayap. But he was not the type to be interested in a pay-for-your-degree college.

I really can't answer that .. I am not sure what Payap was like a decade ago. I would hope the head of any school would Place education over Fiscal concerns. Sometimes you can't control the reputation you have, But one thing they could do is not giving students a free pass because they paid so much.

And we should not even discuss what the snotty stuck up CMU student body thinks of the kids at the commercial and occupational colleges.

That would probably be best left for another thread. But you are right .. I have never heard kind words from CMU, Payap or Mae Jo students regarding "College students"

I also knew of more minority kids on scholarship at Phayap than at CMU.

That makes pefect sense as Payap is considerably more expensive than CMU

I would like to point out though .. even if my take is completely wrong and yours is completely right.. It still boils down to Students are petty and will spread negative rumors about students in other schools.

/SM