Elaborate Scams

[Savage]

I've seen some amazing scams around the world and Thailand is no exeption. Today I was told about a Thai parent at my school who was at an ATM (this Friday). Behind her were 2 ladies in business suits who started to argue. The parent is with her 4 year old child by the way. Anyway one of the ladies grabs the parents wrist and says she needs her as a police witness. After this incident some sort of weird drug takes hold of the lady who is taken willingly in a taxi to Makro. She willingly gives her rolex watch over and empties her (I imagine) hefty bank balance and again willingly hands it over. About 15 minutes after this she came to.

Now I quite realise that people like they (rich lady, ATM) are potentially easy targets but this still strikes me as being a dark story, specially with the kid there (think what they could of done to the kid if they wanted to?). I would like to know what other scams other than the obvious bar girl, jewellery scams people have come across. How dark does it get in order to part people with their cash. This was Thai to Hi So Thai (is that comman).

Sav

[p1p]

On first reading this looks to be one of those typical stories made up by an inveterate gambler who lost her shirt at the local underground casino. I would take it with a large spoon of salt.

[Savage]

I would agree entirely had it not been my school manager warning all the staff in a meeting. The incident happened downstairs from our school and he took her to the police and comforted her after it happened.

[stumonster]

I too would be rather sceptical.

what about the camera at the atm?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I too would be rather sceptical.

what about the camera at the atm?

If you use logic Stu, the story loses credibility in the retellings.

[Savage]

I wish this story was codswallop, but the police are running an investigation and the bank are going to retrieve the security videos.

This only happened on Friday

Sav

[lopburi3]

It happens. My daughter-in-law was a victim about a year ago in a Bangkapi shopping mall. Same type operation, two ladies - get the victim excited (you have my gold chain), grab/drug and they become willing to believe what told. Taken to ladies room and gold/money taken but told a story that she to hold onto their money and wait on bench for them to return - after an extended period comes around enough to open hand and find the 5,000 baht she thought she was holding is 50 baht and her money is gone. Police said they had a number of such reports.

[Dutchy]

Talking about scams, two of my former collegues applied in Nigeria for a job at a major Oil company. The salary would be over one million bath a month, they only had to transfer $800 for the visa application. One of those collegues resigned because of this consultancy project... They both never left Bangkok but lost $800, dreams of a life without debt and a job here....

Dutchy

[Aranya]

Suppose these types of stories are true or have some kind of truth in them, it really gets scary. I wonder what type of drug they use.

[Savage]

When I told my girlfriend she said that it is not an uncommon occurance. She says the drug comes from Cambodia. It happened to my bosses friend, he was an old hand in Bangkok however was drunk in Patpong after closing time (easy target).

This happened on Silom Soi 5 at about 1600. They didn't withdraw her cash there but took her down Chong Nonsi to Makro. She can't remember what happened but she remembers the argument behind her, having her wrist grabbed, the going to get a policeman bit then next minute she was in Makro. The scariest bit for me are that the taxi ride, giving the watch and money are all accounts from her child. She can't remember this bit at all. This was definately not an amateur job.

It pays big style to keep your wits about you anywhere in the world, Bangkok is no exeption. I bet they had an eye on this lady way before they actually went through with the scam. Scary stuff for sure

[Aranya]

Is there any actual report about this somewhere, like in newspapers or reliable online sources? (besides this forum, I mean! )

[NedKelly]

Yeah right.................oh by the way.......theres a giant croc living in the klong near my place.....jing jing ....... my neighbours friends cousins younger brother saw it just last week !

[medicinebox]

Ketamine comes out of Cambodia. It is an anesthetic I belive. Was used in the Vietnam war, now used on livestock. I may be wrong. But this stuff would definatly render you senseless. You would be a walking zombi in a strange world.

I will look for a link.

[medicinebox]

here.

http://www.thegooddrugsguide.com/ketamine/effects.htm

And here taken from http://www.members.tripod.com/ketotal/faq.html

The Trip:

Before reaching the first line, fragmentation will occur- the world will

begin to spin, but it won't be dizzying. Music will become

fragmented. Chaos will ensue. At some point, you will find yourself

complete removed from your surroundings and your body.

Descriptions of the post-line experience vary substantially, but most

include talk of alternate planes of existence, oneness, past and future

revelations, and strange fabrics of all sorts. It will be very difficult to

communicate at this point, and you probably will not be able to see or

hear others in the room. Some revelations will be extremely heavy

and some scary, but that fear does not seem to come back with you

and is therefore difficult to describe as scary. You will probably find

yourself coming back across the line again visibly, attempting to put

an object in focus or define it. It is at this point that you will likely

want to get in touch with your co-trippers. This is the "Wow" period.

It is very important here that you do not try to move for awhile. The

trip will continue mildly for an hour or so after this, with more

conventional focuses.

Some scary shit.....

[12call]

If you want to know about the different types of drugs

found in Asia-Pacific, how they affect your mind and body,

and how taking them can affect your life,

here is the important information you need to know.

Remember, always make informed decisions about drugs, ignorance is not bliss.

Opium

Opium is obtained from the thick white liquid found in the seed pods of the opium poppy. Most of the illicit opium crops are grown in Southwest and Southeast Asia, referred to as the Golden Crescent and Golden Triangle respectively. Opium contains a number of naturally occurring alkaloids, including morphine, codeine, papaverine, thebaine and narcotine. Only morphine and codeine have psychoactive properties that cause euphoric and analgesic effects and attract abuse. Opium is typically smoked.

Immediate effects

Opium can relieve physical pain and often produces a detached and dreamy sensation. It can also cause nausea and vomiting, sleepiness, constipation, and constriction of the pupil in the eye.

Long-term effects

The long-term use of opium causes mood instability, enhanced pupillary constriction (which impairs night vision), severe constipation, reduced libido, menstrual irregularity and certain types of respiratory impairment.

Dependence

Physical and psychological dependence develops rapidly in the regular user. When a regular user abruptly stops using the drug, withdrawal symptoms including anxiety, sweating, muscle cramps, runny nose, vomiting, diarrhoea, insomnia and pain can occur.

Ketamine

Ketamine (Ketalar?) is a synthetic drug, marketed initially as a dissociative anesthetic. It also produces hallucinations, analgesia and amnesia similar to those produced by phencyclidine (PCP). In its hydrochloride salt from, ketamine occurs as a white crystalline powder that is freely soluble in water and soluble in alcohol. When the drug is injected intravenously over a period of one minute, patients rapidly experience dissociative feelings and unconsciousness may result almost immediately. The intravenous dose range for anesthesia is between 1 and 2 mg per kilogram of body weight (I.e. 70 to 140 mg for a 70-kg adult). The dose range for intramuscular injection is approximately three times as great. An anesthetic dose causes increased heart rate and elevated blood pressure. Respiration is typically not affected, but spasm of the larynx and other forms of airway obstruction have been reported.

Katamine has already a history of abuse in the United States, Canada and Europe. Typically, drug supplies were obtained by diversion from legitimate sources. Street preparations include powders, capsules, tablets, crystals and solutions. Non-medical users injects (estimated) doses of 50 mg or "snort" between 60 and 125 mg. Such dose levels do not usually result in unconsciousness. The main desired effects are euphoria and "mystical" revelations, as well as hallucinations and pleasant sensations of both floating and stimulation. Although these effects are typically sought after by users, the intensity of the effects, which may continue for one hour, may be upsetting to novice users. Users generally experience impaired thought processes, confusion, dizziness, impaired motor co-ordination and slurred speech. Severe adverse episodes - or "bad trips" - sometimes occur and resemble the toxic psychotic state caused by PCP. The principal hazardous effect of high doses is respiratory depression.

I should be noted, that little research has focused on long-term non-medical use of ketamine, and it is not known whether tolerance or dependency develops with regular use. However, it is known that a number of regular users do experience "flashbacks" (recurrences of psychic events that originally occurred during a ketamine-taking episode.

Marijuana

Marijuana is obtained from the plant Cannabis sativa, a tough annual that grows in both tropical and temperate climates in many parts of the world. The principal psychoactive constituent of the plant is tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), a hallucinogenic substance. It is reported that marijuana is the most widely used illegal psychoactive drug in the world.

Marijuana may make people euphoric at first, and then relaxed and calm. If a large dose is taken, It may change physical perceptions similar to LSD. Almost all possible routes of administration have been used, but by far the most common method is smoking.

Immediate effects

Use of marijuana causes feelings of well-being and relaxation, loss of inhibitions, which can make people talk and laugh more than usual. It also causes loss of concentration, increased pulse and heart rate, red eyes, and increased appetite. Large quantities can cause feelings of panic, hallucinations, restlessness, paranoia and confusion.

Longer-term effects

Regular use over a long time increases chance of bronchitis, lung cancer, and breathing illnesses. Also, it is linked to loss of energy and interest in other activities, in the definition of amotivational syndrome. These symptoms also can be caused by a combination of reasons. However, these symptoms usually quickly disappear when the drug use is stopped. Decreased concentration, memory and ability to learn can continue for several months after use has stopped, but tend to recover with time.

Dependence

With regular use, psychological dependence on cannabis can develop. Users may acquire a persistent craving for its psychoactive effects, and the drug consequently takes on a central role in their lives. If cannabis is temporarily unavailable, anxiety related to the drug supply, or even feelings of panic, may result.

Amphetamines

The amphetamines are a group of central nervous system stimulants. They are also referred to as amphetamine-type stimulant (ATS). Amphetamines are produced through chemical synthesis by the pharmaceutical industry and by illicit laboratories. The amphetamines are called different names throughout the region (e.g. Yaa Baa [the 'crazy drug'] in Thailand and Shabu in the Philippines). In both instances these "street" names are referring to methamphetamines most often used among the ATS group in Asia. Amphetamine use is associated with many problem behaviours such as violence (including sexual violence), extreme risk taking (e.g. being on top of buildings, trying to fly), and in sex work (e.g. to keep the sex worker alert and awake and able to see more clients). Most commonly, amphetamines are taken orally, injected or smoked. Less commonly, amphetamines are sniffed or snorted.

The overdose of amphetamines can cause death. However, the amphetamines may be an indirect cause of death. Numerous accidents, homicides and suicides have been documented, where those involved were suffering from amphetamine psychosis at the time of the violent episode.

Immediate effects

Amphetamines cause an excited state, increase activity, dilate pupils and decrease appetite. Large doses can cause an inability to sleep. High doses can cause tremors, irregular breathing, anxiety and panic attacks. It also can cause heart arrhythmia, collapse, convulsions, and elevated blood pressure. Some people become aggressive and lose touch with reality.

Long-term effects

The long-term use of amphetamines can cause chronic sleeping problems including insomnia, frequent nocturnal awakening and poor-quality sleep; anxiety and tension; appetite suppression, which may result in disorders related to poor nutrition; high blood pressure, and rapid and irregular heart-beat. Regular high-dose use of amphetamines can also produce suspiciousness and paranoid thinking, severe agitation, repetitious behavior and in some cases a prolonged psychosis.

Dependence

A persistent craving for the mood altering effects can occur. Users may crave the drug effects so intensely that, if the drug is temporarily unavailable, they can experience severe distress or even feelings of panic.

Ecstasy (MDMA)

Ecstasy is a derivative of amphetamine which has both stimulant and hallucinogenic effects. Ecstasy is produced through chemical synthesis in both clandestine and authorised research laboratories. It is formed into tablets, capsules or oil which is usually mixed with other drugs. Users have no way of knowing what the substance is mixed with and what the effects will be. It is sometime called the 'love drug' in developed countries and is associated with dancing and music in clubs. Ecstasy is usually taken orally.

Ecstasy has been implicated as a cause of death; however, the incidence as a direct result of ecstasy use is unclear. Reported deaths have mostly been associated with kidney or cardiovascular failure induced by dangerously high body temperature and dehydration. Ecstasy users who participate in vigorous all-night dance sessions may fail to drink enough fluids to replace those lost to the hot environment at these events, thus increasing their risk of toxicity.

Immediate effects

The short-term effects include mild intoxication, euphoria, a sense of pleasure, empathy and changes in visual perception, sociability or closeness to others. Undesired effects include blurred vision, depression and /or anxiety and panic attacks.

Long-term effects

The effects of long-term ecstasy use in humans have not been well documented. Regular users have reported increased physical discomfort, or "hangovers," as well as weight loss, exhaustion, "flashbacks," irritability, paranoid, depression, psychosis and loss of desired drug effects. Repeated use may cause jaundice and liver damage.

Dependence

Little information is available regarding ecstasy's ability to produce dependence or withdrawal symptoms once regular use has stopped.

Heroin

Heroin is produced by the chemical modification of morphine which is contained in opium. Heroin has powerful euphoric and analgesic effects, and has a greater potential for producing dependence than opium. Although the drug can be taken by several routes - injection, sniffing, smoking or swallowing - heroin dependent users prefer to dissolve the powder in water and inject it intravenously. This method results in more immediate and more intense effects than administration by any other route.

Overdose from heroin can result in death due to severe depression of the brain centres that control breathing. Frequent injection of drugs and needle sharing among users can result in serious communicable diseases such as viral hepatitis and HIV/AIDS.

Immediate effects

Similarly to opium, heroin can relieve physical pain and often produces a detached and dreamy sensation. The most desired effect is referred to as a "rush." It occurs almost immediately following intravenous injection. Heroin can also cause nausea and vomiting, sleepiness, constipation, and constriction of the pupil in the eye. As the dose increases, the sensitivity to pain decreases, the ability to concentrate is impaired, the probability of sleep increases, breathing becomes slower and more shallow, heart rate gradually slows and blood pressure decreases.

Long-term effects

The long-term use of heroin can cause mood instability, reduced libido, severe constipation, enhanced pupillary constriction (which adversely affects night vision), menstrual irregularity and certain types of respiratory impairment.

Dependence

Powerful physical and psychological dependence can develop very rapidly for the regular user. When a regular user stops using the drug, withdrawal symptoms including anxiety, sweating, muscle cramps, running nose, vomiting, diarrhoea, insomnia and pain can occur. Concern about withdrawal symptoms and drug craving often lead to a return to heroin use by those who have stopped.

http://www.youthzone.un.or.th/druggroups.htm#

[stumonster]

Scopolamine. This is odorless, tasteless and affects your memory so that you are extremely unlikely to be able to identify the perpetrators in the unlikely event that they are caught. It is also sometimes available in a spray form

this is a quote from this form

http://bkktonite.com/cgi-bin/forum/topic.c...pic=372&start=0

[Phil Conners]

Thanks for all the descriptions however what I'd like to know is how can someone taking you by the hand get the stuff into you? I presume they're not gonna jack a hypodermic needle into your arm in public...

[lopburi3]

Thanks for all the descriptions however what I'd like to know is how can someone taking you by the hand get the stuff into you? I presume they're not gonna jack a hypodermic needle into your arm in public...

From my understanding they scratch your skin and have the substance in a balm type grease pressed into the cut. You quickly lose control and are unable to think or speak. That is why there are always two to help/carry you along.

[Nam Kao]

I was drugged by a BG one night in Nana, She somehow must of slipped it in my

carlsberg. I started feeling very sleepy and i put 2 and 2 together and made a bee-line

to my hotel. She followed me and I was staggering and she kept trying to make me

sit down (i guess to let the drug take its full affect so she could rob me) but

somehow I pressed on and made it to my hotel and told reception what happened

to me. They said this girl does it all the time and to go sleep it off.

[phazey]

I have a friend (read: a group of us work collegues went out together, he was sharing my spare room) who lost a whole day - even down to getting up several times, having a phone conversasion and brushing his teeth, and he never remembered any of it....back in the days of Thermae mind - anyway i got a pic of his incapacities (heh), and my missus (then courting) was a witness......

funny things can indeed happen

[whattodo]

Come on guys get real

[phazey]

Come on guys get real

if you are refering to my post mr. whattodo, should i

a) whip out photoshop (to protect the innocent?)......and present my first piece of evidence ?

sign up my missus who will also back up *my story*

c) get someone else to also verify what happened ?

d) get the person on the other end of the phone call to also state that it happened ?

e) dare ask the person in question to go through events ?

you sir, should "get real" perhaps

[RDN]

I have a friend (read: a group of us work collegues went out together, he was sharing my spare room) who lost a whole day - even down to getting up several times, having a phone conversasion and brushing his teeth, and he never remembered any of it....back in the days of Thermae mind - anyway i got a pic of his incapacities (heh), and my missus (then courting) was a witness......

funny things can indeed happen

Ah, Thermae! Happy days....

[phazey]

i went there once.

honest!

[stroll]

Informative list, 12call.

Out of these only Ketamine would fit the description of the robbery, and it, or any other drug would have to be injected intravenously to take effect immediately, impossible to achieve in the circumstances. Injected intramuscular would already give the victim enough time to defend themselves (how would you react if someone stung you with a needle?). There are a few other drugs which in Thailand can only legally be dispensed in hospitals, but they would also need to be injected or inhaled to act quickly. The towel over the nose approach would give enough time to react, and would be noticed, too.

But in any case, no drug will make you a willing accomplice in being robbed, and if you were on a Ketamine trip, you wouldn't remember your PIN, believe me.

In the story there is no mention of needle marks, it is completely fabricated without a grain of truth in it, don't worry.

It is more likely that your drink gets spiked after you have taken 'somebody' back to your room. Haven't heard about this for some time now, one good thing Toxin brought about is that prescription medicines are not as freely available anymore.

[stroll]

Scopolamine? What is this?

I doubt very much that anything can take effect fast enough through a scratch wound!!?

Thermae incident: sounds like Rohypnol, or the more potent variety (can't remember what it's called now-yes, that potent) sold under the counter in those days.

[roamer]

A technique used by horse and dog race "fixers" is to use a solvent called DMSO (dimethyl sulphoxide) as a carrier for the drug. When applied to the skin it penetrates the skin barrier. Heard talk of this also being used by athritis sufferers. Not saying this happened here, or that ketamine is a suitable drug, simply that this is a known clandestine method of administering a drug.

[Johpa]

From my understanding they scratch your skin and have the substance in a balm type grease pressed into the cut. You quickly lose control and are unable to think or speak. That is why there are always two to help/carry you along.

There is still a stretch of the imagination between a scratch and balm and an intramuscular injection.

The original story sounds more like rophynol than ketamine. Person probably had drinks somewhere and did not want to admit it.

[ajahnlau]

Happens alot up-country. Happened to my wife[of 13 yrs] last year in a big super market. Woke up in ladies bathroom minus gold bracelet. Has also happened to a couple of her friends. No, wife doesn't gamble and has money in bank if she wants a new bracelet. I am the same as others wondering how the transference can take place on just a grab of the wrist. Those who think our wives are just scamming should do a bit more research on the local level, as in asking local girls if they have ever heard of this.

[stroll]

Did your wife have any marks on her skin?

Sorry, I am really intrigued, as people keep saying this is real.

I am discounting the possibility of hypnosis or witchdoctor's spell.

Just did a search on scopolamine:

"...scopolamine acts by interfering with the transmission of nerve impulses by acetylcholine in the parasympathetic nervous system and produces symptoms typical of parasympathetic system depression: dilated pupils, rapid heartbeat, and dry skin, mouth, and respiratory passages. Because scopolamine depresses the central nervous system, it is used as a sedative prior to anesthesia and as an antispasmodic..."

"Prevent motion sickness with scopolamine, the main ingredient in Transderm Scop, a dime-sized patch discreetly worn behind the ear."

"Scopolamine comes as a patch to be placed on the skin behind your ear. Apply one patch to a clean, dry, hairless area behind the ear. The patch should be applied at least 4 hours before its effects will be needed..."

The patch, I guess, would have minimal s. content, but it is a potent drug, available in non-precription medicines.

So this could be it, if they found a way to make it act instantly, a spray as Stumonster suggested?