Terror Suspects In Secret Thai Bases ?

[roamer]

Observer.According to a report in The Observer (UK) Al Qieda terrorist suspects captured in Pakistan have been flown to secret bases in Thailand for interrogation. These bases are run under Allied or US control. The reason for doing this is that they are thereby able to use interrogation techniques that they would otherwise be unable to use.

The rights or wrongs of this aside, I hav'nt heard a single rumour of this in the Thai media. Point is that this is certainly putting Thailand into the "revenge" sights of terrorists and it appears to have been done in secret.

[penzman]

Observer.According to a report in The Observer (UK) Al Qieda terrorist suspects captured in Pakistan have been flown to secret bases in Thailand for interrogation. These bases are run under Allied or US control. The reason for doing this is that they are thereby able to use interrogation techniques that they would otherwise be unable to use.

The rights or wrongs of this aside, I hav'nt heard a single rumour of this in the Thai media. Point is that this is certainly putting Thailand into the "revenge" sights of terrorists and it appears to have been done in secret.

Here's an example of a Syrian-born Canadian who was deported from the U.S. after being arrested between flights.

"They Put a Bag Over My Head & Flew Me To Syria for Torture and Interrogation."

The canadian government denied rumours about them giving the americans any information before he was deported to Syria. The media later found out it they did...

This is What They Did to Me

By MAHER ARAR

http://www.counterpunch.org/arar11062003.html

[OldAsiaHand]

The rights or wrongs of this aside, I hav'nt heard a single rumour of this in the Thai media. Point is that this is certainly putting Thailand into the "revenge" sights of terrorists and it appears to have been done in secret.

Of course it was done in secret. That's why they're called secret bases. Are you one of those guys who thinks that anything government doesn't tell you is therefore morally worng?

Regardless, and contrary to your first observation, the existence in Thailand of facilities utilized by US and other intelligence organizations for both detention and presumably interrogation of prisoners from Afghanistan and Iraqi (and, possibly, Alabama and Scotland for all I know or care) was widely reported and commented on in both the English and Thai press last year. Those facilities are operated in full cooperation with the Thai military and have been more or less continually in place for nearly thirty years now, ever since the Vietnam War. It's very old news. You ought to keep yourself better informed if you want governments to clear their activites with you in advance.

[rainman]

Looks like they just became ex-secret.

[roamer]

So this was widely reported and I don't keep up to date? Let me get this right, The Thai government let it be known and it was widely reported in the media, that they would provide facilities for the interrogation of people that have been removed from another country, in violation of international law ? Well I must have missed that one..

[konangrit]

Observer.According to a report in The Observer (UK) Al Qieda terrorist suspects captured in Pakistan have been flown to secret bases in Thailand for interrogation. These bases are run under Allied or US control. The reason for doing this is that they are thereby able to use interrogation techniques that they would otherwise be unable to use.

Wasn't aware that torture was legal in Thailand. Why send two 9/11 suspects from Pakistan to Thailand? Surely Guantanamo Bay would be a more suitable destination.

The rights or wrongs of this aside, I hav'nt heard a single rumour of this in the Thai media. Point is that this is certainly putting Thailand into the "revenge" sights of terrorists and it appears to have been done in secret.

I think the problems in the South are of a far bigger concern for "putting Thailand into the 'revenge' sights of terrorists" than a couple of Pakistanis being briefly detained at a US military base in LoS.

[konangrit]

So this was widely reported and I don't keep up to date? Let me get this right, The Thai government let it be known and it was widely reported in the media, that they would provide facilities for the interrogation of people that have been removed from another country, in violation of international law ? Well I must have missed that one..

From reading the article I fail to see how the two Pakistanis were removed from Pakistan in violation of international law, or any national laws for that matter. They were arrested in Pakistan by Pakistani security forces and handed over to US security forces where they were flown to Thailand.

[thaihome]

Let me get this right, The Thai government let it be known and it was widely reported in the media, that they would provide facilities for the interrogation of people that have been removed from another country, in violation of international law ? Well I must have missed that one..

Can you tell me what international law you are refering to?

Has someone else said, the facilities have been in place for well over 30 years.

Ever been on Sathorn Rd, just past Rama IV? Look to the left as you pass the first Soi.

TH

[roamer]

The South is a bigger problem, no question. But this is a different issue.

Why not take them to Guantanamo bay...dunno, full maybe? Or maybe fears over an upcoming US Supreme Court ruling on the legality of the place due this week. Also we are not taking about being "briefly" detained at US Base in LOS, we are talking about being "indefinately" detained. Now if the US chooses to do that in Guantanamo as it is currently doing, well thats their call, it certainly violates international law, and the betting is that in a week or so the Supreme Court will decide it violates US Law as well.. In the UK foreign nationals are detained indefinately under an amendment to the Prevention of Terrorism Act but they have full legal access and are free to leave jail provided they leave the country also. Elsewhere in most of the developed world, imprisonment without trial, without charges, without legal access, is illegal.

Point is if you look at the article and you see the list of countries that have also opted in to be a US Partner in this...your looking at some very dodgy places. I grew up in Thailand long before it became a "democracy" and I see this as a retrograde step.

I'm on a hiding to nothing here, there are more than enough people on this forum that say shoot the lot of 'em.

[john b good]

Quote...

Wasn't aware that torture was legal in Thailand. Why send two 9/11 suspects from Pakistan to Thailand? Surely Guantanamo Bay would be a more suitable destination.

Thats a joke in itself.

In Thailand whats "legal" got to do with it?

Prostitution is illegal as is gambling (other than on the Thai Gov't lottery and the officially sanctioned horse racing) and what difference has that made.

[roamer]

What international law am I referring to ? How about the Geneva Convention 1950, Articles,4,12,13,17,21 et al. The US may choose,has stated, that they don't abide by of it in this instance....has Thailand ? And if you hang around long enough someone will come up with the domestic laws that prohibit this kind of treatment. And while we are on the subject of domestic laws...are there any US bases in Thailand now ? The report referred to Allied bases.

[OldAsiaHand]

What international law am I referring to ? How about the Geneva Convention 1950, Articles,4,12,13,17,21 et al.

Oh, no. Here we go again. Another member in good standing of the brotherhood of the obnoxiously self-rightous looking for a chance to lecture all the rest of us on his superior grasp of the morality of nations. Give me a break.

Okay, I'm out of here. Even reading the 'What's the Best ###### You Ever Had' thread offers more hope for an intelligent conversation than this.

[Boon Mee]

Does U-Tapao ring a bell with anyone? It hasn't been much of a secret anyway...

[whattodo]

What international law am I referring to ? How about the Geneva Convention 1950, Articles,4,12,13,17,21 et al.

Oh, no. Here we go again. Another member in good standing of the brotherhood of the obnoxiously self-rightous looking for a chance to lecture all the rest of us on his superior grasp of the morality of nations. Give me a break.

Okay, I'm out of here. Even reading the 'What's the Best ###### You Ever Had' thread offers more hope for an intelligent conversation than this.

Nice One

[simon43]

Has someone else said, the facilities have been in place for well over 30 years.

Ever been on Sathorn Rd, just past Rama IV? Look to the left as you pass the first Soi.

TH

Are you sure? It looks like an upmarket Italian restaurant

[Padkapow Guy]

Does U-Tapao ring a bell with anyone? It hasn't been much of a secret anyway...

I don't think it is consider a U.S. base.

I am not saying there are not U.S. personel there.

[mouse]

Has someone else said, the facilities have been in place for well over 30 years.

Ever been on Sathorn Rd, just past Rama IV? Look to the left as you pass the first Soi.

Not quite. This is not a Interrogation, Detention Center or anything of the sort of thing that you may be thinking of. I think you are referrring to JUSTMAGTHAI which you can visit at http://www.jusmagthai.com/index_001.htm

[roamer]

I was asked which international law..I replied. That makes me obnoxiously self rightous ? Yeah go have an intelligent conversation somewhere...bore another bar girl to death...

[konangrit]

Quote...

Wasn't aware that torture was legal in Thailand. Why send two 9/11 suspects from Pakistan to Thailand? Surely Guantanamo Bay would be a more suitable destination.

Thats a joke in itself.

In Thailand whats "legal" got to do with it?

Prostitution is illegal as is gambling (other than on the Thai Gov't lottery and the officially sanctioned horse racing) and what difference has that made.

If that's your point of view than we may aswell have the same disregard for the law in every other country on Earth. Do you think there is a single country in the world where prostitution and gambling does not go on in spite of whatever laws have or have not been passed? Sex and gambling are human nature, however torture generally isn't. Any laws against torture are far more likely to work than any against prostitution or gambling as it far less socially accepted.

What international law am I referring to ? How about the Geneva Convention 1950, Articles,4,12,13,17,21 et al. The US may choose,has stated, that they don't abide by of it in this instance....has Thailand ? And if you hang around long enough someone will come up with the domestic laws that prohibit this kind of treatment. And while we are on the subject of domestic laws...are there any US bases in Thailand now ? The report referred to Allied bases.

The Geneva Convention concerns prisoners of war. It has absolutely no relevance to your claim that: "The Thai government let it be known and it was widely reported in the media, that they would provide facilities for the interrogation of people that have been removed from another country, in violation of international law ? ".

Also we are not taking about being "briefly" detained at US Base in LOS, we are talking about being "indefinately" detained.

The only details in the report about this was that they were believed to have been interrogated in Thailand. I admit that this makes no reference to the length of time that they were in Thailand, but it seemed to suggest to me that they are no longer being detained inside Thailand. It certainly did not say that they were being indefinately detained inside Thailand.

I'm on a hiding to nothing here, there are more than enough people on this forum that say shoot the lot of 'em.

I do not wish the lot of them to be shot, and I do believe that they should have access to the full legal process. You have some valid points to make, but it doesn't help when you make misleading and untrue statements.

[roamer]

Konangrit. Not my intention to mislead anyone. As far as the Geneva Convention is concerned the UN Human Rights chief Mary Robinson and the International Committee of the Red Cross as well as some of the worlds leading jurists have argued that Al Queda suspects are entitled to the protections of the Geneva Convention. If the US wishes to go down the "illegal combatant" route thats up to them.

And if you take that away you still have the International Convention on Civil and Political Rights to which Thailand is a signatory and such treatment is a clear breach of that protocol.

Sorry, your bundled away in the middle of the night, denied due process, flown to another country, detained, interrogated,,,,and thats not a breach of domestic or international law ?

My original point was that I was unaware that Thailand was providing such facilities to the US for which I was informed I was ignorant as it was widely reported in both the Thai and English media. Well if it was widely reported then maybe someone will provide a link.

[roamer]

OK i'm ignorant. I found a link Here.

Thailand denies it though so thats alright then.

[bsross]

Hi All:

I'd think the US base at Diego Garcia (middle of nowhere) would be a much better spot for such activities than any soveriegn country...wayyyyy off the beaten path.

Although, if I was the interogator, I'd push for Thailand

R/Bryan