stroll Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 But to get back to the subject; I drink on average half a case of *chang* per day with the occasional few extra on ‘boys’ night out on Fridays. I rarely get totalled but there has been the odd time. I rarely drink before midday except at a Khmer wedding, funeral or open house. I do not get aggressive with drink. Whether I am alcoholic, I cannot say.I have good friends who either do not or only occasionally drink alcohol and they do not feel as though they are excluded from the local community because of this. As others pointed out, even if it's true that you don't get overly aggressive on your daily 'dose', your friends are not complaining and you have a 'normal' working life, you are still damaging your health. A few years back, I had an attitude similar to yours, although I wouldn't go as far as choosing my favorite booze or drug as an avatar. I used to get offended by friends telling me I had a problem, since I am also the non-aggressive type drunk (or so it appears to oneself at the time). Why don't they mind there own business and let me enjoy myself? In retrospect, the answer is obvious, they cared for me and it hurt them to see me gradually go downhill. Ask yourself, if half a case of chang doesn't get you drunk, why do you keep drinking it, and are proud to say it is not a problem? Ironically, alcoholics are well able to go without drink for a while, even for years, only to very quickly go back to the same level of drinking as before. The ability to abstain is not proof that you are not addicted, but is merely part of the pattern of this compulsive behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 STROLL said;;Ironically, alcoholics are well able to go without drink for a while, even for years, only to very quickly go back to the same level of drinking as before. The ability to abstain is not proof that you are not addicted, but is merely part of the pattern of this compulsive behaviour." And he is exactly right,,alcoholism is a progressive disease,just because you stop drinking,the disease goes right on,it never is "I was an alcoholic but I stopped and now i am not,, Bullshit, if you were ever an alcoholic then you still are an alcoholic. There is no known medical cure for alcoholism and the only relief possible is absolute abstinence, I have been sober and had no drinks for over 22 years and if i so much as have a swallow of alcohol,I will be right back there,only not where I was when i quit but 22 years farther down the long road of alcoholism,and I do not want that,it was so bad that they found me just about dead from gas,got me awake and into detox,and I have not had a drink since,there has been times when i said fuk it,I might as well get drunk,but then I remembered how bad that was and never had that drink,alcohol is not physically addictive,you can quit any time that you want to,but your mind will tell you that you should or could have that drink,and you are gone again, Remember that we deal with alcohol,cunning baffling and powerful. so the choice is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yohan Posted June 27, 2004 Author Share Posted June 27, 2004 Looking at the poll, only 4 persons do not drink at all, only 1 person is not drinking alcohol, except if he/she is pushed to do so by friends.... Non-drinkers are indeed a minority of about 10 percent. Thank you, KevinN for your postings explaining about the danger of alcohol.... May I ask something different related to the subject: Do you think, drinking of alcohol is wasting of money? Not only what you pay for yourself, you pay sometimes for the others as well, don't you? Would you have more money in your pocket, more money for your family, if you decide, not to have any drink at all in the future? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
350torana Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 " Do you think alcohol is wasting of money" I would say yes and no . I mean booze is not vital to someone's survival. But,it is a recreation. If a family's weekly budget is being spent down a tthe pub or the local crack dealer or whatever then others suffer of course. Alot of things we don't need in life... smokes, designer clothes, tv's ,sports cars or Barbara Streisand albums. They are recreations to make life more fun. If we did not want to waste money we would be living on a diet of bread and water From my expeirence my drinking is not breaking the bank. Wifey(does not drink) lets me spend a 100 baht or so a night on 3 Changs . But gets on my case if i really splash out . She does not wear the boots in the house of course :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maerim Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 The tolerance for alcohol increases with prolonged use, so the quantity of your consumption is really not relevent to getting drunk, only to the effect on your body. Same with heroin, there are very few deaths through using smack, when there are it's usually through septicaemia using dirty needles or in most cases when they get out of prison they go straight back to what they were using when they went in a gramme a day or so. They started off on a little bit and progressed, if that's the right term to a fully blown smackhead. As to alchohol being adictive I have had the misfortune to see a couple of people die through cirrhosis of the liver they all reckoned they were not addicts to alcohol. I have seen people here who have drunk three bottles of Chang beer by seven O'clock in the morning not one will admit to being addicted to alcohol they can stop any time they like but they don't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gentleman Scamp Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Alcohol was the reason I was put into foster care when I was three years old and it's also what killed my biological mother in 2001. It hasn't stopped me drinking but having said that I sometimes binge drink but, sometimes I prefer I nice cold green tea. I do believe that alcoholism can, possibly but not definatly be hereditory but I also believe that it's circumstance that triggers it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayenram Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 jayenram: If the "chang" consumption doesn't interefere with your life or cause you problems, I wouldn't worry about it, except the issue of the effect of the daily use of alcohol, over a protracted amount of time, on your body. I suppose that having drunk similar quantities over the last 38 years, I guess my body is a lost cause. BTW, I'm not overweight, in fact I'm 4 kg less than what the medical profession considers my ideal weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayenram Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Ask yourself, if half a case of chang doesn't get you drunk, why do you keep drinking it, and are proud to say it is not a problem? Firstly, I didn't say that half a case of *chang* didn't get me drunk. I stated that I rarely get 'totalled'. Half a case of *chang* over a six to eight hour period causes me to talk a little gibberish but not stagger around or fall over. I would say half way between being tipsy and drunk. Secondly, I didn't say it wasn't a problem nor that I was proud of anything. One of the question that is being asked here is "are you an alcoholic?". I was simply stating my drinking pattern and hoping that more knowledgeable persons on this forum could tell me one way or the other. I personally do not think I am an alcoholic (and I've certainly known a few in my time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 The tolerance for alcohol increases with prolonged use, so the quantity of your consumption is really not relevant to getting drunk, only to the effect on your body. Same with heroin, there are very few deaths through using smack, when there are it's usually through septicaemia using dirty needles or in most cases when they get out of prison they go straight back to what they were using when they went in a gramme a day or so. They started off on a little bit and progressed, if that's the right term to a fully blown smackhead. As to alchohol being adictive I have had the misfortune to see a couple of people die through cirrhosis of the liver they all reckoned they were not addicts to alcohol. I have seen people here who have drunk three bottles of Chang beer by seven O'clock in the morning not one will admit to being addicted to alcohol they can stop any time they like but they don't like. JAYENRAM;; it is your own business how much you drink and up to you to decide if you are an alkie or not,,that shit is made to drink,and if you enjoy it and it causes no problem in your life and you enjoy it,then by all means,carry on,but if it is causing you trouble,then you need to do something about it. but until such time,don't worry about it and ahve fun,you only live once. Heroin is definitely addictive where alcohol is not,any person that drinks daily,can stop,if as you said,he wants to,but many do not want to stop. Now that is the answer.But it is the mental compulsion that keeps them drinking.Not a true addiction.I had been drunk 24/7 for the last 2 years of my drinking career,4 days in detox and i had no desire to drink and no adverse effects,not the same with addiction.But then I had not wanted to drink for a long time,but with alcohol in my system,I couldn't quit. There are a lot of deaths due to heroin addiction,just like there are a lot of deaths due to alcoholism,but called something else. When someone dies from cirrhosis they always say he died because of liver cancer or something when a smack addict dies because all his veins in his feet,ankles,legs,neck,mouth and arms are collapsed and infected and large parts of his body dead and rotting thru lack of blood circulation,they do not say that he died because heroin use had made all his blood pipes inoperative because of smack shooting. I had 2 sons,and they both died at the age of 38 from heroin abuse,they were 2 years difference in their ages,one son really did try to stop,but he never could,and I don't know if the youngest ever wanted to quit.Heroin and the addiction is really some weird shit.That is why I said that most members of AA cannot help addicts,we do not understand addiction. altho we do understand "compulsion". T 350;;maybe she don't wear the boots,but she does control the pussy.and that will beat boots every time. TGS;; The disease of alcoholism is caused by a faulty gene and it is passed on to most children with alcoholics in the family tree,thru studies there has been conformation of this,,with one parent being alcoholic,the children have about a 75%chance of drinking alcoholicly,with both parents the chances increase to about 95%, my first wife was an alcoholic,but both her parents were not,but it is hard to say for sure,as they never drank,but she had uncles and a grandfather who were indeed alkies. She never drank often when we were young,but when she drank,she would get drunk and puke all over, but at about the age of 50 and we separated,she started to have a little wine while cooking her dinner,and then a little wine with her dinner,and then a little wine instead of cooking or eating dinner and waking up for work with a hangover.A trip to AA and being willing to accept,she spent the last 16 years of her life sober and happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Sorry I misinterpreted some of what you wrote, jayenram, I didn't mean to treat on your toes. The general thrust of my comments still stands though, you say: "I suppose that having drunk similar quantities over the last 38 years, I guess my body is a lost cause." This sounds like an excuse. I don't want to cause offense here but your comments fit neatly into the pattern we are discussing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Right on STROLL;; but if he does in fact want to drink and thinks he enjoys it and it is causing no problems or troubles,then I guess that he will not quit. In my estimation,anyone that drinks that much on a regular basis must surely have a problem,, JAYENRAM; do you want or really crave the second and third drinks? or can you just have a couple and quit with no thought of having another?I mean NO THOUGHT.without the craving for another or an empty feeling.? If you can say yes to this then i would say that you are not an alkie,but I still can't see why anyone would spend the time and money drinking that much beer on a daily basis. It is not up to us or are we qualified to make that easement,there is only one person that can make it in all honesty,and that one is you. do you think you have a problem? if you would like,E-Mail me.maybe I can help.or at least give you some info to help make the answer easier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayenram Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 JAYENRAM; do you want or really crave the second and third drinks? or can you just have a couple and quit with no thought of having another?I mean NO THOUGHT.without the craving for another or an empty feeling.? If you can say yes to this then i would say that you are not an alkie,but I still can't see why anyone would spend the time and money drinking that much beer on a daily basis. I don't believe that I crave for drink. There are days when I only have two beers (as I said earlier, 6 on average) and really do not feel like another, particularly when arriving home early. I occasionally do a little w*rk and when I do, my consumption reduces to maybe the odd beer after w*rk plus a can or two in the hotel whilst watching TV. This is virtually the only time that I drink on my own. Most consumption is in the local pub with friends or during a few games of snooker. I enjoy the beer and the resulting feeling. I have plenty of time and I can afford a few hundred baht a day for half a dozen *changs*. I do not and have not taken any kind of illegal drug (except a little canabis in my early twenties) In conclusion, I realise that I do drink too much and it doesn't do my health any good. However, I still do not believe that I am an alcoholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnustedt Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Most consumption is in the local pub with friends or during a few games of snooker. When in Surin I asked Jayneram "Where's the nearest boozer?". To which he replied "You're looking at him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 jayenram,,well if you feel that you are not an alkie,then for all practicle purposes,you are not an alkie,as only you can say. so after a preponderance of the info,if you have came to that conclusion,I wouldn't worry. pnustedt;;kinda sounds like the answer you would get from a true alkie,cause they are a rather proud lot. But I really can not see why or what of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Dr. Bob, They do not understand...Leave them alone, eventually many will come crawling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnustedt Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 pnustedt;;kinda sounds like the answer you would get from a true alkie,cause they are a rather proud lot. But I really can not see why or what of. Too true Kevin. He's the only guy I know who goes to a girlie bar and complains about the beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 pnustedt;;kinda sounds like the answer you would get from a true alkie,cause they are a rather proud lot. But I really can not see why or what of. Too true Kevin. He's the only guy I know who goes to a girlie bar and complains about the beer! I kinda did the same thing,,The other guys you was drinking with would sometimes want to go to girly bars and drink, I would raise ###### about the beer too. But not the quality but about the quanity and price"What the ###### we doin in here payin $1.50 a glass for beer and lookin at these naked broads when we was getting bigger glasses for 25 cents at the last place" But then I knew I was an alkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayenram Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 When in Surin I asked Jayneram "Where's the nearest boozer?". To which he replied "You're looking at him". I think there's a lot of black kettles and pots appearing in this thread pete®. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JemJem Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 Ok, as a recovering alcoholic, let me write a few words here : I have finally said 'Enough is enough' and decided to put an end to this. I don't care much about hangovers (although of course they are always unpleasant), don't care much about the money I spend (I never drank at fancy places or expensive booze anyway) and don't care much about what others think about me. However, the reason I quit is the worry/fear that I will have a serious illness (i.e. liver problem) in the future. Of course, whatever damage that may have been done to my body after heavy drinking in the past 17 years or so cannot be reversed but of course I have thought to myself 'the sooner the better' and quit. I have never seen AA as suitable for myself (never been a religious/spiritual type of person) and it would be a hassle for me to go downtown for the meetings. Anyway, I will fight this myself, my own way. By the way, this is not to mean that I am anti-AA. I respect the people who feel AA helps them. I just feel it is not for me. As for social life, yes, my social life sort of sucks, after having quit drinking. I am quite a shy person and alcohol had usually helped me socialise with others and made me relax, chat, dance at various places. I feel that I will not be going to certain places now that I have quit drinking (most pubs and bars). However I would still like to enjoy going somewhere to listen to a live band once in a while and of course I would prefer to do it with someone who also does not drink. I see the deterioration in my social life as 'the small price to pay' in my having quit alcohol (hopefully) for good. By the way, it has only been 9 straight sober days for me. I know it's very much early days but I am determined. By the way, those of you who are either recovering alcoholics or who just don't drink for whatever reason you might have, maybe we can get to meet sometimes in Bangkok and go out to a restaurant, pub, etc. Anyone interested ? Regards, Jem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted June 30, 2004 Share Posted June 30, 2004 I'd be into a fun evening with coke and fruit juices in bangkok, any time before 15th July. For my personal safety, please confirm you are not a Texan Bush supporter who read my posts in a different forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProThaiExpat Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 JemJem: Good luck on your road to recovery. The "white knuckle" approach to long time sobriety is rarely successful, but I have met a very few who have done it. Please consider getting help from someone. There is an AA for Agnostics. The physical additiction has passed for you by now, it is the mental aspect of alocholism that is what you will be fighting now. If you relapse, do not be discouraged, your on the right path. Few alcoholics are able to succeeed on the first try. With help, you have a much greater chance of succeeding. You might try going to an AA meeting, just for the social aspects, and perhaps you will meet a kindred soul that will be happy to meet with out outside of an AA meeting for coffee, conversation and exchange of ideas that will help you immensely. It is often said that when to aloholocs meet and exchange views, a mini AA meeting is happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Ok, as a recovering alcoholic, let me write a few words here :I have finally said 'Enough is enough' and decided to put an end to this. I don't care much about hangovers (although of course they are always unpleasant), don't care much about the money I spend (I never drank at fancy places or expensive booze anyway) and don't care much about what others think about me. However, the reason I quit is the worry/fear that I will have a serious illness (i.e. liver problem) in the future. Of course, whatever damage that may have been done to my body after heavy drinking in the past 17 years or so cannot be reversed but of course I have thought to myself 'the sooner the better' and quit. I have never seen AA as suitable for myself (never been a religious/spiritual type of person) and it would be a hassle for me to go downtown for the meetings. Anyway, I will fight this myself, my own way. By the way, this is not to mean that I am anti-AA. I respect the people who feel AA helps them. I just feel it is not for me. As for social life, yes, my social life sort of sucks, after having quit drinking. I am quite a shy person and alcohol had usually helped me socialise with others and made me relax, chat, dance at various places. I feel that I will not be going to certain places now that I have quit drinking (most pubs and bars). However I would still like to enjoy going somewhere to listen to a live band once in a while and of course I would prefer to do it with someone who also does not drink. I see the deterioration in my social life as 'the small price to pay' in my having quit alcohol (hopefully) for good. By the way, it has only been 9 straight sober days for me. I know it's very much early days but I am determined. By the way, those of you who are either recovering alcoholics or who just don't drink for whatever reason you might have, maybe we can get to meet sometimes in Bangkok and go out to a restaurant, pub, etc. Anyone interested ? Regards, Jem You do not have to be a religious person to go to AA. I was an atheist,and now maybe an agnostic,but anyway i do not believe in god,and thought that for me to get anything out of AA i would have to be a god freak. But I have been a member of AA for 22+ years now,and go got to AA meeting when ever possible,just being around other alkies helps to confirm the fact that it does work and I am not unique. There is social life with out drinking,and if you go to meetings of different groups,you will find one that you fit in, I truly feel sorry for folks that have quit drinking and do not go to AA, they are missing the best part of being sober. the main thing you will learn at meetings is how to cope with the everyday trials of being and staying sober, I do not know to many people that do not go to AA that manage to stay sober,there you will learn how to change your ways,just being sober is not enough, If you take a drunken horse thief,and get him to stop drinking,what have you got? Right,now you have to get him to stop stealing horses. and thats what happens when we go to AA and listen. It gives us other ways to act and replaces the stealing. You can't be sober and happy with your old ways of reacting to situations that come up in everyday life. Feel free to e-mail me if you would like,I kinda sponsor folks all over the world that have a problem staying sober,I have no control over their drinking,but I can be someone to talk to about problems and maybe find a way to keep from drinking. If you ever have a problem that getting drunk will remedy,let me know and I will buy the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12call Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I'm 35,Irish and luv booze.That's why we never had time to take over the world.Kev,my eart bleeds for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JemJem Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 *stroll : No, I am not a Texan Bush supporter. I am a Californian Bush supporter. Just kidding, man To be honest, I am neither pro nor anti Bush. I guess if I could vote, I would go for Kerry or Nader, not Bush. On a serious note, yes, thanks, just PM me and let me know which days are good for you. *ProThaiExpat and KevinN : Thanks for the kind words of advice. Well, I guess I will CONSIDER going to an AA meeting. I guess you are right. I should go there at least once to have a clearer idea of what it is about. But going to the meetings regularly would be a hassle for me as I am not so near downtown. As for social life, well, the thing is social life for me had consisted mostly of going to snooker clubs, bars, pubs and clubs and of course having alcoholic drinks (mostly beer) in all of them. So now things seem so boring for me. So now, social life for me is just using the Internet, watching TV, reading the paper, eating out at times and playing snooker/pool (playing without having a beer or two sort of sucks though). The urge to drink will unfortunately never go away completely. But, as I had writtten, I am determined. Regards, Jem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joebuzzard Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Great thread. I answered alcoholic because that's what I am. I'm in recovery now though, and attending AA meetings regularly in Bankgok. For me, there's so much more hope and happiness without the booze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamdomChances Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Cant remember what I voted I was drunk at the time ! Whether your an alcholic is something that must be answerd for yourself, but if you have to ask your self the question, somwhere in your own mind you must feel you may have a problem. I drink a lot, some times I go a week or two without having a drink(although ave 2-3 times a week), but when I drink I drink. I almost never drink beer enless its just to be sociable, so its spirits for me, at the moment Sang Som is the fav tipple, but when I drink its rarelly less than a bottle. Yes I know its damaging me, yes I've asked myself the allcholic question, and no I dont really care. I smoke, and drive to fast one off those will probably kill me first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stroll Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 "I smoke, and drive to fast one off those will probably kill me first." Hold a bottle of Sang Som in the other hand while smoking in your speeding car,... ... then repeat the sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 JemJem;;The urge to drink will unfortunately never go away completely. But, as I had written, I am determined. The desire and urge will surely go away if you change your thinking,it will take awhile but it will go away,at least the desire will go away,the thinking of the problems will remain as long as you live,and the thought of what will happen if you try it again will also be there,some folks think they can drink again,but it generally does not work,so they end up back at square one.But if you go to some [more than one] as you will never be able to understand what they are talking about at first,as most meetings are not geared to the short timer unless you are in a large city with a lot of members where they have what are called first step meetings. But please do go and listen to what the folks have to say,it tells you where you need to start and what to do to keep from drinking,,some of my best friends are people I have met in AA meetings. The second step says"Came to believe that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity" But it don't say god or Allah or any of that,it says a power greater than ourselves.and else where is says GOD,as we understood him.Which can be anything you choose. All AA meetings are for all people,atheist,agnostic or believers,,the only ones that are any different are found very rarely and they are Called "Alcoholics Victorious" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RamdomChances Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 Stroll, usually got the bottle between my knees, with a straw, I'm not stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinN Posted July 1, 2004 Share Posted July 1, 2004 I'm 35,Irish and luv booze.That's why we never had time to take over the world.Kev,my eart bleeds for ya. Ya just about did take over ther world,gotta be a mick to be a cop in NY cCty or Chicago,, And at 35 I thought that I might take over the world,at least the part where I was,, Tuy Hoa,S. Viet Nam. But the booze got in my way too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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