is investing in stock market a job (in homecounty)?

[dlclark97]

17 hours ago, mateusz1945 said:

yep....  too young to real retirement 

well they ask question about job and income and idk what is their definitions... so i don't wanna shoot myself in the knee with wrong answer i guess.

BTW  is it possible to  to  have that 400k in thai investment account , like on stock market but thai?  so inflation doesn't eat it for whole year?

The 400,000 is required to be in a Thai Bank.  If you are from many countries you can either open a foreign currency account at a Thai Bank, hold it Thai Baht in a fixed account or put it in a savings account at a Thai Bank to use with your ATM card but watch that you maintain the required minimum balance.  For my money the Thai SET is very difficult to obtain any historical information about the companies listed there and I highly doubt any money there would be acceptable to immigration for the purpose of maintaining a VISA or for getting your annual extension to stay.  As you are unemployed, are there any plans to work from how via the net or other?  With nothing to do  it can be quite boring.  And, even if working from home almost anything a foreigner might do here requires a work permit.   And, it can be done if it is in a profession reserved for the Thai population.

[Phillip9]

I "retired" very young and have always just put "Investor" when asked for an occupation.  I've never had any question about it in visa applications for more than a dozen countries, including thailand.

[dlclark97]

15 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I keep hearing about this "stock market" thing. Is it any good? I just have to buy and sell stocks all day long? Could it yield me at least 60k baht in profit, so I could quit my teaching job?

 

I'm already married to a Thai, so I'd just need 40k income to get the Non-O. But 60k would be better.

 

Heck, 100k+ would be better, so I wouldn't have to feel so inadequate around those international school guys at the pubs. Could the stock market do that for me? Thanks guys.

The stock market first of all involves risk.  Whatever you see the markets doing today typically heading upwards could reverse overnight and you can lose a lot of money in a few hours.  Are you from the USA?  First thing you need is to do a lot of research in any company you may be thinking about investing in.  In the USA, Fidelity, Vanguard and many others have ETF's available with no or very low fees.  The advantage is that an S&P fund is diversified over approximately 500 companies, the DOW 30 companies and the NASDAQ typically 500 to 200 companies.  As they are very diversified if 2-3 companies stock price goes down you have the remaining stocks in the fund to add some stability to your investment.  I tend to stay away from individual companies and am mostly invested in ETF's but also keep some cash available if I may want to invest in an individual stock if I believe it has substantial short term growth potential.  And, any time I but into an ETF or stock I immediately establish a TRAILING STOP LOSS percentage which would sell the stock if it dropped in price from its last high by that percentage.  Set the percentage to whatever you might be comfortable losing but remember there will be price swings so I usually allow for that with a 4, 5, 6 or 7% STOP LOSS order to leave room for the price to change a little.  Whatever you do, research anything you may want to invest in thoroughly and periodically check its performance.  Personally  would not count on it replacing my income until your comfortable with your cash on hand and could withstand some downturns.  There are websites, Iuse Fidelity where you can watch the minute by minute stock and EFT prices.  There are people who trade in and out of a stock a few minutes or hours from their initial purchase.  Day traders.  But, if you are from the USA remember there are about 12 hours time difference between the NYSE in New Your and here in Thailand.   Good luck!

[dlclark97]

7 minutes ago, dlclark97 said:

The stock market first of all involves risk.  Whatever you see the markets doing today typically heading upwards could reverse overnight and you can lose a lot of money in a few hours.  Are you from the USA?  First thing you need is to do a lot of research in any company you may be thinking about investing in.  In the USA, Fidelity, Vanguard and many others have ETF's available with no or very low fees.  The advantage is that an S&P fund is diversified over approximately 500 companies, the DOW 30 companies and the NASDAQ typically 500 to 200 companies.  As they are very diversified if 2-3 companies stock price goes down you have the remaining stocks in the fund to add some stability to your investment.  I tend to stay away from individual companies and am mostly invested in ETF's but also keep some cash available if I may want to invest in an individual stock if I believe it has substantial short term growth potential.  And, any time I but into an ETF or stock I immediately establish a TRAILING STOP LOSS percentage which would sell the stock if it dropped in price from its last high by that percentage.  Set the percentage to whatever you might be comfortable losing but remember there will be price swings so I usually allow for that with a 4, 5, 6 or 7% STOP LOSS order to leave room for the price to change a little.  Whatever you do, research anything you may want to invest in thoroughly and periodically check its performance.  Personally  would not count on it replacing my income until your comfortable with your cash on hand and could withstand some downturns.  There are websites, Iuse Fidelity where you can watch the minute by minute stock and EFT prices.  There are people who trade in and out of a stock a few minutes or hours from their initial purchase.  Day traders.  But, if you are from the USA remember there are about 12 hours time difference between the NYSE in New Your and here in Thailand.   Good luck!

I may be mistaken but II thought I had read this would be your first time in Thailand.  Perhaps I am confused with another writer.  But, do you already have a long term Thai GF?  Hopefully not someone you met via the internet.  All too often (but not always) the responders on the net are often ladyboys or others responding from a script that has been provided to them for the sole purpose of extracting money from foreigners.  By all means visit here and stay a few months/years to get the 'lay of the land'.  Many have burned all their bridges at home to come here and meet the 'girl of their dreams' only to find out she never really existed.  Take care.

[mateusz1945]

35 minutes ago, dlclark97 said:

I may be mistaken but II thought I had read this would be your first time in Thailand.  Perhaps I am confused with another writer.  But, do you already have a long term Thai GF?  Hopefully not someone you met via the internet.  All too often (but not always) the responders on the net are often ladyboys or others responding from a script that has been provided to them for the sole purpose of extracting money from foreigners.  By all means visit here and stay a few months/years to get the 'lay of the land'.  Many have burned all their bridges at home to come here and meet the 'girl of their dreams' only to find out she never really existed.  Take care.

 Here is actual OP. My second post  explains my situation. Basically we are in long time relationship just used to live in other country together. Glad to know that community care about each other not making horrible mistakes. Thanks

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, mateusz1945 said:

They seem to be interested in my occupation. I don't want misunderstandings  in the future so my question is.... should i mention anything about stock income?

Stock market investment is a legal income, and as long as your invest your private funds only – i.e. not a professional broker – it's not work.

 

You shall check the double taxation agreement between your home country and Thailand for matter of taxation. You can find the DTAs HERE.

 

Capital gain might be taxable in Thailand, if you transfer the money into Thailand during the same calendar year that it's gained, whilst waiting to the next calendar year, or any later year, the funds are considered savings and legally tax-free to transfer into Thailand.

 

Depending of your your country of origin, you might have a benefit being tax-resident in Thailand – you need to register for income tax, and make a tax-return for for every tax-year – as in some countries dividend taxation can be the 10 percent Thai withholding tax, instead for your home country's tax rate; i.e. if you pay more than 10 percent in dividend tax, you might be eligible for applying for a reduction to the Thai rate of 10 percent in your home country, which for example is the case with my Scandinavian home country.

 

You might also be eligible for a 15 percent dividend taxation instead, depending of either your home country's rules – got nothing to do with DTA – or rules in the country in which the stocks are registered, but could still be asked to show that you are tax resident of Thailand. I.e. you can be eligible for 10 percent dividend tax in your home country, and 15 percent dividend tax from US-stocks, if you are not an US-citizen; that's for example the case for me.

 

18 hours ago, mateusz1945 said:

yep....  too young to real retirement 

well they ask question about job and income and idk what is their definitions... so i don't wanna shoot myself in the knee with wrong answer i guess.

BTW  is it possible to  to  have that 400k in thai investment account , like on stock market but thai?  so inflation doesn't eat it for whole year?

No, your deposit shall be in a Thai bank in a risk-free savings account; which can be a fixed term account for optimal interest, as long as you can cash the funds at any time with only penalty as loss of interest. Stock market and mutual funds, the latter was accepted earlier by some immigration offices, includes a risk and can drop below the the 400k baht mark, and are therefore not allowed.

 

If you are interested in Investing in SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand), then all dividends will be withheld a 10 percent dividend tax. If you accept that taxation, you don't need to do any further, nor filling any tax return-forms. Capital gains from SET stocks are considered tax free, and capital loss cannot be deducted in taxable income...????

[topt]

14 hours ago, AlexRich said:

I’d be interested in knowing if my understanding is correct?

in case you did not catch it Khun Per confirms it above

Edited December 25, 2020 by topt

[khunPer]

14 hours ago, AlexRich said:

if you have around 250,000 GBP to invest and you generate a 5% dividend then you would be able to have 40,000 Baht per month on average. There are a few solid blue chip stocks that might do that.

You can have mode in dividend if you invest in JASIF-F on SET (Stock Exchange of Thailand), and nil dividend tax (it's tax exempt)...

Quote

Rate of Return	YTD	2019	2018
Price Change (%)	-2.06	-3.00	-18.03
Dividend Yield (%)	7.17	6.38	9.10

Source: SET, JASIF.

 

Furthermore, your dividend income is free of exchange rate fluctuations...????

[Nout]

The answer, in a nutshell, is no.

[Lacessit]

19 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

I keep hearing about this "stock market" thing. Is it any good? I just have to buy and sell stocks all day long? Could it yield me at least 60k baht in profit, so I could quit my teaching job?

 

I'm already married to a Thai, so I'd just need 40k income to get the Non-O. But 60k would be better.

 

Heck, 100k+ would be better, so I wouldn't have to feel so inadequate around those international school guys at the pubs. Could the stock market do that for me? Thanks guys.

There are two methods of generating income from the stock market, and both involve risk. It's possible to lose some or all of one's capital.

The first is what are called traders. It is basically a full time job, sitting at their computers and trying to get on the right side of a trade in the space of a few minutes or hours. They buy and sell shares and naked options. Unless they are very good at what they do, the automated trading algorithms will wipe them out.

The second are investors, who buy for dividend income, capital gain, or both. Some also use options to either leverage their income ( covered calls ) or insure against capital loss ( bought puts ). They are willing to hang on to shares for months or years.

If you want to educate yourself in shares and options, I recommend Benjamin Graham's "The Intelligent Investor" and George Fontanills " The Options Course ".

[jack7106]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:29 AM, swissie said:

There is a fundamental question connected to this thread: Has OP made some money in the past in the stock-market or has he heard from "a friend" that "tons of money can be made in todays stock market" without lifting a finger nor needing any expertise?

 

I am afraid that the latter is the case, otherwise OP would not consider the 400K Baht for a marriage visa worth mentioning in the first place and within this context.

Have met a few guys, arriving with 20K US$, hoping to generate enough income by trading the markets. Sorry, no success stories to tell about.

No wonder. Even top Investement funds are not yielding more than 10% in the long run. So, how much Capital would one need to generate an income of (let's say) 40'000 Bht a month? Assuming that a long-term yield of 10% can be maintained over many years? You do the figureing.

Short term trading? Most serious trading-platforms/brokerages inform their customers that on average roughly 80% of their customers lose money over the long run.

 

As the old saying goes: Thailand is nice if the assets that one has accumulated over time in the "western-world" will suffice.
Thailand does not accomodate undercapitalised "Western-Dreamers". But it does accomodate overcapitalised "Western-Dreamers. For better or for worse. 

If you listen to the top investment funds then you will make very little money. They are only self interested in the stocks that they are promoting to try and benefit themselves.

 

I retired when I was 35 and seem to be travelling okay. Up to you????????‍♂️????????????????????
I am now 53 years old and have lived in Thailand for many years????

[jack7106]

19 hours ago, mateusz1945 said:

well historically on average you can get about ~8% a year investing in indexes (like snp 500) that is passive and not impressive. People that know what they doing  read news and trade everyday can get more. 20% -30%  some even more. But its a real job and is stressfull 

It is not stressful at all if you can afford to lose the money you’re investing????????‍♂️????????????????????????

[DrJack54]

Why is this finance topic in Thai visas and work permits ....

[moontang]

On 12/25/2020 at 1:11 PM, Fat is a type of crazy said:

The only point I would make, which may be irrelevant to your situation in Thailand, is that tax law often differentiates between share investor and share trader. A share investor is someone who tends to buys shares and leave them and maybe buy and sell some from time to time. It is passive income. This may be subject to capital gains tax. It is not a business.

If you actively manage a significant amount of shares, making regular buys and sales, you may be a share trader and this means you are in business. The shares are just like apples to a fruit seller - they are trading stock.

So if you are a share trader it may affect you if there are rules about whether you can be in business. I know nothing though about how the Thai law looks at this.

I disagree, they have been much more clear about being a custodian of your assets than anything any digital nomad ever thought up.  I wouldn't be sitting in a commercial space at a trading station, though.. and being a  broker or a financial advisor is clearly forbidden, and would require a WP, as well as registration with SEC.  There are some guys doing it, and even drumming up local business.. I wouldn't go near them.  I have been trading electronically since DOS and Compuserve.. Also, most of the FX trading systems are scams, so don't fall for that.  Look up Alan Hall, former president of CMEC.  He was recruiting members and pushing them into a fund, where he got a 20% commission up front.  The fund went to zero, he did a runner. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by moontang

[moontang]

On 12/25/2020 at 3:37 PM, dlclark97 said:

The stock market first of all involves risk.  Whatever you see the markets doing today typically heading upwards could reverse overnight and you can lose a lot of money in a few hours.  Are you from the USA?  First thing you need is to do a lot of research in any company you may be thinking about investing in.  In the USA, Fidelity, Vanguard and many others have ETF's available with no or very low fees.  The advantage is that an S&P fund is diversified over approximately 500 companies, the DOW 30 companies and the NASDAQ typically 500 to 200 companies.  As they are very diversified if 2-3 companies stock price goes down you have the remaining stocks in the fund to add some stability to your investment.  I tend to stay away from individual companies and am mostly invested in ETF's but also keep some cash available if I may want to invest in an individual stock if I believe it has substantial short term growth potential.  And, any time I but into an ETF or stock I immediately establish a TRAILING STOP LOSS percentage which would sell the stock if it dropped in price from its last high by that percentage.  Set the percentage to whatever you might be comfortable losing but remember there will be price swings so I usually allow for that with a 4, 5, 6 or 7% STOP LOSS order to leave room for the price to change a little.  Whatever you do, research anything you may want to invest in thoroughly and periodically check its performance.  Personally  would not count on it replacing my income until your comfortable with your cash on hand and could withstand some downturns.  There are websites, Iuse Fidelity where you can watch the minute by minute stock and EFT prices.  There are people who trade in and out of a stock a few minutes or hours from their initial purchase.  Day traders.  But, if you are from the USA remember there are about 12 hours time difference between the NYSE in New Your and here in Thailand.   Good luck!

Yep, and for some reason the 2130 market open seems way later than 2030, when they are on DST.  And Fidelitys flagship mutual fund lost about 40% of its value in a month, earlier this year, but is still up nicely for the year. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

22 minutes ago, moontang said:

I disagree, they have been much more clear about being a custodian of your assets than anything any digital nomad ever thought up.  I wouldn't be sitting in a commercial space at a trading station, though.. and being a  broker or a financial advisor is clearly forbidden, and would require a WP, as well as registration with SEC.  There are some guys doing it, and even drumming up local business.. I wouldn't go near them.  I have been trading electronically since DOS and Compuserve.. Also, most of the FX trading systems are scams, so don't fall for that.  Look up Alan Hall, former president of CMEC.  He was recruiting members and pushing them into a fund, where he got a 20% commission up front.  The fund went to zero, he did a runner. 

I am not talking about being a broker. I am differentiating between just an investor and a share trader - both involve you buying and selling shares but there is a line, in countries like Australia, where if you invest significant amounts, and buy and sell regularly,  it stops simply being treated as an investment and becomes a business.  If it is done in a  commercial space it might be a further indication of a business but it is not a key factor as to if it is a business.  Share investors and traders are taxed differently. In Thailand though, as I said, I am not sure if there are similar rules or whether for his visa  it matters if he runs a business or not. 

[moontang]

15 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

I am not talking about being a broker. I am differentiating between just an investor and a share trader - both involve you buying and selling shares but there is a line, in countries like Australia, where if you invest significant amounts, and buy and sell regularly,  it stops simply being treated as an investment and becomes a business.  If it is done in a  commercial space it might be a further indication of a business but it is not a key factor as to if it is a business.  Share investors and traders are taxed differently. In Thailand though, as I said, I am not sure if there are similar rules or whether for his visa  it matters if he runs a business or not. 

Same with gambling or even trading real estate.  Licensing, business deductions, and employment taxes come into play, but the frequency of your trades means nothing to the Thai authorities.  I have never heard of anyone having a problem stating the money they were transferring in wasn't made in the current year.  I even have a visa card attached to my fidelity account, so I quite easily can make a quick trade and go buy beer with the profits on my visa card, before the purchase or sale of the shares is even settled.  Bib couldn't care less, but the moment they see you sitting in an office with a headset and three monitors, all bets are off.  That's another reason why the workspace craze is puzzling to say the least. 

Edited December 26, 2020 by moontang

[khunPer]

10 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Why is this finance topic in Thai visas and work permits ....

Because OP asked if he needed a Work Permit to invest in stocks...????

[DrJack54]

58 minutes ago, khunPer said:

Because OP asked if he needed a Work Permit to invest in stocks...????

He does not. 

Next question!