Voting for a juristic entity - One vote for each person on Chanote? What about Company owned homes? 1 vote for each shareholder?

[Thomas J]

On 3/28/2021 at 7:19 PM, malcolminthemiddle said:

Try and find copies of previous JP applications. In particular the notice from the Developer that he wants to be discharged. If you find that then check with the land officer whether it is still valid. The law defines the 180 days as the minimum time for transfer after the notice. I am unaware of any maximum time limit. If you can find a valid Developer notice you then have to worry only about the resolution meeting and new JP application.

As I understand it there was an entity approved back in 2012.  That was the last time.  So there was a vote by the homeowners but the "president" who has been running the not legal association since then conducted the meeting but never has gone to the land office to file it.  I suspect she has discovered that we have uncovered that she is not an owner.  She lives with her father and is not on the Chanote. 

[malcolminthemiddle]

25 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

As I understand it there was an entity approved back in 2012.  That was the last time.  So there was a vote by the homeowners but the "president" who has been running the not legal association since then conducted the meeting but never has gone to the land office to file it.  I suspect she has discovered that we have uncovered that she is not an owner.  She lives with her father and is not on the Chanote. 

 

First, the only registered entity the Developer can register the transfer of the public facilities to is either a housing development JP or the local authority.

 

Second, a JP application needs a representative chosen by the purchasers at the resolution meeting to file the JP application. The representative does not have to be a purchaser for example the purchasers may appoint a lawyer to act on their behalf.

 

If you have no hard evidence of previous applications or resolution meetings forget them.

 

I suspect there is no registered “entity approved back in 2012”, any previous application was either rejected or abandoned and the Developer remains the registered entity responsible for the public facilities.

 

Suggest you speak to the Land Officer and ask him the process to set up a JP in the event that the Developer responsible for the public facilities is no longer trading and/or carrying out his duties regarding the public facilities.

 

Caveat – The Developer may have given the lady in question power of attorney to act on his behalf regarding the public facilities?

 

You are doing a lot of guessing. Try and establish hard facts so that you can plot a meaningful way forward.

[Thomas J]

51 minutes ago, malcolminthemiddle said:

You are doing a lot of guessing. Try and establish hard facts so that you can plot a meaningful way forwa

No we have been to the Land Office.  There were JP for the village.  The last one approved was in 2012.  The Land Officer said that there should have been a transfer within 6 months of when there was a change in the board.  The woman I mentioned "ran" for president was elected and has remained running the association ever since.  

She has collected the association dues, paid for the various services used by the village.  However, the money has been for the most part paid in cash.  Money from homeowners and we have verified from one of the bank owned properties has been deposited into her personal bank account.  Expenses paid electronically show as being from her personal account. 

We also have a copy of the chanote for the home she lives in.  Only the fathers name appears on the home. 

[chickenslegs]

3 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

We also have a copy of the chanote for the home she lives in.  Only the fathers name appears on the home. 

Obviously, the situation in your village is less than satisfactory. However, in the rules of our village the spouse, parent or child of the owner is eligible to be voted onto the committee. I expect this may be the same everywhere. 

[Thomas J]

37 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Obviously, the situation in your village is less than satisfactory. However, in the rules of our village the spouse, parent or child of the owner is eligible to be voted onto the committee. I expect this may be the same everywhere. 

Not sure on that.  It was my understanding that only property owners those on the Chanote would be allowed to be on the board.  I 'think" that is the law and something not governed by the by-laws.  Maybe someone knowledgeable on the law will see this and comment. 
 

[malcolminthemiddle]

9 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Not sure on that.  It was my understanding that only property owners those on the Chanote would be allowed to be on the board.  I 'think" that is the law and something not governed by the by-laws.  Maybe someone knowledgeable on the law will see this and comment. 
 

Conditions for membership of the Executive Committee are set out in the Articles of Association and may well include family members of purchasers.

[malcolminthemiddle]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

No we have been to the Land Office.  There were JP for the village.  The last one approved was in 2012.  

That is a surprise. In your previous posts you said that the JP application filed in 2012 was rejected, not corrected and then expired because the application was non-compliant?

Edited March 30, 2021 by malcolminthemiddle

[malcolminthemiddle]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The Land Officer said that there should have been a transfer within 6 months of when there was a change in the board.  

I suspect this is the latest lost in translation in your communications with the Land Officer and the Land Officer is referring to the minimum 180 days for the transfer of the public facilities.

[malcolminthemiddle]

2 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The woman I mentioned "ran" for president was elected and has remained running the association ever since.  

She has collected the association dues, paid for the various services used by the village.  However, the money has been for the most part paid in cash.  Money from homeowners and we have verified from one of the bank owned properties has been deposited into her personal bank account.  Expenses paid electronically show as being from her personal account. 

Isn’t this what the majority of members elected her to do after the JP application failed?

 

Providing she is being transparent and the estate is well maintained, what exactly is the problem?

[Thomas J]

1 hour ago, malcolminthemiddle said:

sn’t this what the majority of members elected her to do after the JP application failed?

 

Providing she is being transparent and the estate is well maintained, what exactly is the problem?

No that is exactly the issue.  Candidly I could care less about the entity being legal providing the association was run properly.  However, she is now requesting that all payments be made to her in cash.  She even represented to the bank owned properties to either pay in cash or because of a problem with the association account that they remit the association dues to HER PERSONAL ACCOUNT.  

There is no separate account for association transactions. 
There is no budget
There is no reporting of income/expenses. 

There is no audit. 

Now if she or anyone else was operating the village expenses using a separate account. Providing a list of properties, who paid and who has a receivable.  Provided a income expense report and the bank statement and the account was audited once a year.  I would say great. 

However when I see a person go to such great lengths to retain this position and everything being done in cash, well I just don't think she is doing the service out of the goodness of her heart.  I would even go so far as to say, that if the village decided to pay her for her services that is reasonable.  But not knowing and concealing makes me suspicious.  

She now has held the vote and the majority voted for a juristic entity, she was again elected president.  However we have been to the land office and he advised us, she has never shown up to present anything, nor have any of the property owners been given minutes of that meeting.   If she is above board, why not file, why not open a bank account even a separate one under her name to separate monies.  


If she 

[Thomas J]

2 hours ago, malcolminthemiddle said:

Isn’t this what the majority of members elected her to do after the JP application failed

The JP did not fail.  There was a legal entity and members of the board including the president no longer reside in the village.  She asserted that she would be president and "was elected" but she failed and continues to fail to file any application at the land office. 

Maybe you can educate me.  I "thought" only people whose named appeared on the Chanote could be on the board.  I see someone said that their bylaws permitted spouses and children.  So are the bylaws the governing document and serving on the board is not something covered by Thai law? 

 

Even if that is the case in this instance, I have a copy of the bylaws that the land office has on file for this village.  It says Owner or Spouse of Owner.   So given that I am thinking the bylaws are the governing instrument.  That being the case, she is not an owner, nor the spouse of an owner. 

[malcolminthemiddle]

17 hours ago, Thomas J said:

The JP did not fail.  There was a legal entity and members of the board including the president no longer reside in the village.  She asserted that she would be president and "was elected" but she failed and continues to fail to file any application at the land office. 

Maybe you can educate me.  I "thought" only people whose named appeared on the Chanote could be on the board.  I see someone said that their bylaws permitted spouses and children.  So are the bylaws the governing document and serving on the board is not something covered by Thai law? 

 

Even if that is the case in this instance, I have a copy of the bylaws that the land office has on file for this village.  It says Owner or Spouse of Owner.   So given that I am thinking the bylaws are the governing instrument.  That being the case, she is not an owner, nor the spouse of an owner. 

Until your conflicting statements regarding the current status of the Juristic Entity are reconciled, given the extensive advice you have already received, in particular the informative manual for an Establishing Housing Development Legal Entity provided by Chickenlegs, which apparently you have not read, further comment would be superfluous.

 

Other than to say:

1.       A Housing Development Legal Entity has a perpetual life until terminated or merged by a majority vote of the members or wound up by law. A legal entity doesn’t just disappear.

2.       Should there be an existing Juristic Entity, the Articles of Association, which you say you have a copy, will detail the process for convening a Special General Meeting to deal with the situation you describe.

3.       If there is no existing Housing Development Legal Entity the purchasers (of which you say you are not one) will have to start again from scratch.

 

Regarding your request to be educated, from my experience, unfortunately you can’t educate those who do not want to be educated.