Weed Killers (Bermuda Grass)

[Daffy D]

On our back lot we have what Google identifies as Bermuda Grass. This is not a lawn just a patch of open that we want to left free of any sort of vegetation.

 

This Web Site Seems to suggest that Bermuda Grass is almost impossible to get rid off. I should know as have been using gallons of weed killer over several years, but it just keeps coming back again and again ????

 

Anyone have had any success with getting rid of this pest for good?

 

On a slightly different but related note, would this  "Flame Thrower"  fit onto a regular Thai gas bottle? 

 

There is an alternative "Electric Type" but that wouldn't be as much fun. ????

 

[Cdzydec0]

Have you tried glyphosate 48?

[Surelynot]

4 minutes ago, Cdzydec0 said:

Have you tried glyphosate 48?

organic-farming-smallholding-and-kitchen-gardening....????

[Daffy D]

42 minutes ago, Cdzydec0 said:

glyphosate 48?

All the weed killers I've used had Glyphosate in them.

 

If you read the article https://lazygardens.blogspot.com/2015/06/how-to-kill-bermuda-grass-in-10-easy.html as in my original post even with Glyphosate this Bermuda Grass is almost impossible to get rid of.

[Daffy D]

43 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

organic-farming-smallholding-and-kitchen-gardening....????

 

organic-farming-smallholding-and-kitchen-gardening

[Pogust]

Cover it with a black tarp or something light don't penetrate. Leave for a months or so until grass seeds in surface sprout and die. You got seeds in the earth and they will come back again as soon as you disturb the soil. If planting you do NOT disturb soil and let new grass seeds germinate. Try covering with grass clippings or similar instead that don't let light through, then new seeds don't germinate.

 

You can plant lemongrass around your plot, that will keep the under ground roots away. Lemongrass have deep roots that work as a barrier keeping unwanted grass out.

 

Learn to live with it, you can't eradicate it.....

 

[drtreelove]

3 hours ago, Daffy D said:

All the weed killers I've used had Glyphosate in them.

 

If you read the article https://lazygardens.blogspot.com/2015/06/how-to-kill-bermuda-grass-in-10-easy.html as in my original post even with Glyphosate this Bermuda Grass is almost impossible to get rid of.

That's a good article with some important points.

Also, to improve the efficacy of glyphosate products, use ammonium sulfate 21-0-0. Add to the water and agitate before you add the glyphosate product. 

 

(17 lbs of 21-0-0 per 100 gals water = 20 grams per liter if my math is correct) 

 

I am not advocating the widespread use of glyphosate, but it is in fact the most effective and least toxic herbicide for unwanted grasses, if used responsibly and conservatively.  If applied in excess where soil is drenched, glyphosate will affect the soil chemistry and growing conditions for subsequent cropping. So best to use only in areas that will not be planted.

Read the label and mix according to directions. A 48% glyphosate active ingredient can be mixed to a 2% to 4% maximum solution and be very effective on burmuda.  That's 2.5 to 5 liquid ounces per gallon of water.

Spray mist the foliage only and don't drench the soil. Saturating the soil will not help and will only increase environmental contamination. 

 

But before you use an herbicide, consider other options:

Black plastic tarping of the area to exclude sunlight to the grass until it dies. 

Digging it out, and repeat until eradicated. 

 

In order for Glyphosate to be effective
it needs to be absorbed into the plant.
In soft water Glyphosate has no problems in being absorbed,
however; in hard water Glyphosate will be "tied up"
and not be absorbed as readily.
This is known as "hard water antagonism".
Hard water contains high concentrations of the soluble salts, calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++).
When these are present in your spray water
the Glyphosate, which is negatively charged,
will combine with them to form Glyphosate-Magnesium
and Glyphosate-Calcium compounds.
These compounds are not as easily absorbed by the plant
and the result is poor uptake and poor weed control.

So how can growers increase the efficacy of
their Glyphosate treatments?
A common practice has been
to add a surfactant to the spray tank,
this allows the Glyphosate spray solution
to spread across the leaf surface better
and the result is greater absorption into the leaf.
Some Glyphosate products
now have the surfactant in them such as "Roundup Ultra".
Roundup Ultra does not solve the hard water antagonism problem by the addition of a surfactant though,
as the surfactant alone does not address this problem.

The hard water problem is best solved by
adding 17 pounds of ammonium sulfate per 100 gallons
to the spray water before the Glyphosate is added.

Urea - Ammonium Nitrate (28% liquid nitrogen)
will also improve the efficacy of Glyphosate,
but not as well a the Ammonium sulfate.

The addition of this compound to the spray water does two things.
First, the sulfate ions tie up the calcium and magnesium ions
by forming conjugate salts and
secondly, some of the Glyphosate ends up as
a Glyphosate-Ammonium compound
which some species of weeds preferentially absorb
into their leaf tissue over Glyphosate alone.

Reduced gallons of spray solution per acre will also have the effect of increasing the efficacy of the Glyphosate.
Fewer gallons of water equals fewer calcium and magnesium ions to tie up the Glyphosate.

So, if you have had less than ideal performance from your glyphosate product and you think your water is on the hard side, then consider addressing the problem using ammoniun sulfate.

http://www.maes.msu....rt/roundup.html
Jim Johnson, Emeritus Professor, Entomology, MSU
Gary E. Thornton
District Fruit IPM Agent
Michigan State University

[Daffy D]

13 hours ago, drtreelove said:

That's a good article with some important points.

Also, to improve the efficacy of glyphosate products, use ammonium sulfate 21-0-0. Add to the water and agitate before you add the glyphosate product. 

 

(17 lbs of 21-0-0 per 100 gals water = 20 grams per liter if my math is correct) 

 

I am not advocating the widespread use of glyphosate, but it is in fact the most effective and least toxic herbicide for unwanted grasses, if used responsibly and conservatively.  If applied in excess where soil is drenched, glyphosate will affect the soil chemistry and growing conditions for subsequent cropping. So best to use only in areas that will not be planted.

Read the label and mix according to directions. A 48% glyphosate active ingredient can be mixed to a 2% to 4% maximum solution and be very effective on burmuda.  That's 2.5 to 5 liquid ounces per gallon of water.

Spray mist the foliage only and don't drench the soil. Saturating the soil will not help and will only increase environmental contamination. 

 

But before you use an herbicide, consider other options:

Black plastic tarping of the area to exclude sunlight to the grass until it dies. 

Digging it out, and repeat until eradicated. 

 

In order for Glyphosate to be effective
it needs to be absorbed into the plant.
In soft water Glyphosate has no problems in being absorbed,
however; in hard water Glyphosate will be "tied up"
and not be absorbed as readily.
This is known as "hard water antagonism".
Hard water contains high concentrations of the soluble salts, calcium (Ca++) and magnesium (Mg++).
When these are present in your spray water
the Glyphosate, which is negatively charged,
will combine with them to form Glyphosate-Magnesium
and Glyphosate-Calcium compounds.
These compounds are not as easily absorbed by the plant
and the result is poor uptake and poor weed control.

So how can growers increase the efficacy of
their Glyphosate treatments?
A common practice has been
to add a surfactant to the spray tank,
this allows the Glyphosate spray solution
to spread across the leaf surface better
and the result is greater absorption into the leaf.
Some Glyphosate products
now have the surfactant in them such as "Roundup Ultra".
Roundup Ultra does not solve the hard water antagonism problem by the addition of a surfactant though,
as the surfactant alone does not address this problem.

The hard water problem is best solved by
adding 17 pounds of ammonium sulfate per 100 gallons
to the spray water before the Glyphosate is added.

Urea - Ammonium Nitrate (28% liquid nitrogen)
will also improve the efficacy of Glyphosate,
but not as well a the Ammonium sulfate.

The addition of this compound to the spray water does two things.
First, the sulfate ions tie up the calcium and magnesium ions
by forming conjugate salts and
secondly, some of the Glyphosate ends up as
a Glyphosate-Ammonium compound
which some species of weeds preferentially absorb
into their leaf tissue over Glyphosate alone.

Reduced gallons of spray solution per acre will also have the effect of increasing the efficacy of the Glyphosate.
Fewer gallons of water equals fewer calcium and magnesium ions to tie up the Glyphosate.

So, if you have had less than ideal performance from your glyphosate product and you think your water is on the hard side, then consider addressing the problem using ammoniun sulfate.

http://www.maes.msu....rt/roundup.html
Jim Johnson, Emeritus Professor, Entomology, MSU
Gary E. Thornton
District Fruit IPM Agent
Michigan State University

Thanks drtreelove and others for interesting and detailed replies.

 

Seems awfully complicated just to rid a small area of this Devil weed.

 

At the end of last wet season had the kids spend a whole weekend ripping each clutch out one by one. The ground was still damp enough that the roots came out with the plant, or so I thought.

 

After they had finished the ground was clear and it stayed like that for the months of the dry season but as soon as the first rain came the damn stuff started sprouting again ????

 

Think The Flame Thrower might be the easiest short term solution ????