Faced With A Lack Of Energy Options

[Nikkijah]

From an article in 'The Christian Science Monitor' not sure how I found this but it is a little bit worrying, could anything come of this??

The world's dirtiest fuel may be the country's best hope to ensure future energy security

By Daniel Ten Kate | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

Bangkok, Thailand - As the Thai economy continues its steady growth, policymakers are drafting energy strategies with a view toward keeping the lights on for the next 15 years.

To do that, planners say, Thailand must nearly double its electricity production to about 55,000 megawatts each year.

But as Thailand is learning and Malaysia has already discovered, coal could be the key to energy security in the coming decades. To secure supply in a cost-effective way that won't hold the country hostage to gas imports from regimes like neighboring Myanmar or Iran, analysts say the most viable option is coal – a fuel source hated by environmentalists who see it as the main driver of global warming.

"As much as I don't like coal, due to the carbon emissions, I'm equally worried about the need for Thailand to diversify fuel sources," says Mark Hutchinson, an independent regional energy analyst. "And there's really nothing other than coal."

A power plant fueled by natural gas has the added benefit of, on average, producing about half as much carbon dioxide, a third as much nitrogen oxides, and 1 percent as much sulfur oxides as a coal-fired plant.

Of the 22,684 megawatts Thailand uses each year, nearly 70 percent comes from gas and about 15 percent from coal.

While the reliance on gas is already considered high, Thai Energy Minister Piyasvasti Amranand has warned that 90 percent of Thailand's power could come from gas if the country does not embrace either coal or nuclear energy.

That trend is particularly worrisome because Thailand already relies on Burma (Myanmar), an oppressive military-run state, for about a third of its gas.

In future years, as domestic natural-gas production in the Gulf of Thailand peaks, Bangkok may have to import increasingly expensive liquefied natural gas from Middle Eastern countries like Iran.

"Certainly it's a concern to be so reliant on natural gas," says Norkhun Sitthiphong, the Ministry of Energy's deputy permanent secretary who is overseeing the electricity plan. "Natural gas is subject to volatile world market oil prices, and we know exactly what can happen when they rise quickly."

Full story here csmonitor

Surely this is a joke?? Dose Thailand really need to use COAL to progress???

[ThaiGoon]

There's already a clean coal energy technology. It's being used in Japan. I hope the Thai gov't will consider that when they decide to go for more energy plants.

[sukanyacondo]

Give me coal over nuclear any day thanks. Besides I dont think they will be given a choice when the crunch comes and the world fights for energy Thailand will not be high enough up the pecking order.

[sukanyacondo]

Thank fully the UK has ample coal reserves also. It will become more economically viable as the oil and gas run out.

Wonder how much coal all those Arab nations have??? should make interesting politics when the west loads up the price of coal like they do for oil now??

[sukanyacondo]

Link to cleaner coal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4468076.stm

[ThaiGoon]

Link to cleaner coal

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4468076.stm

Cheers.

[qwertz]

There's already a clean coal energy technology. It's being used in Japan. I hope the Thai gov't will consider that when they decide to go for more energy plants.

Thailand should have been putting a lot more into alternative energy research instead of sitting back and relying on cheap oil imports for the last thirty-odd years. It's going to end up paying dear for that omission.

[Gerontion]

I wouldn't get too excited about the report as peak coal may very well be just round the corner: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2396

Building a few coal-fired power stations may keep the lights on for a few more years but in the fairly near future it's powerdown for everyone, whether you like it or not.

[qwertz]

Come the day when there's no more power in Thailand they'll make a fortune selling the million kilometres of cable hanging off every building from Mae Sai to Hadyai.

[sukanyacondo]

The wife is saying we must look for land on a windy hill?????????? I'll have to show her my "Trumpton" video look out Windy Miller!!!!

[qwertz]

Do not joke. I had a dream last night about thousands of giant hamster wheels powered by captive overstay farangs.

Edited May 22, 2007 by qwertz

[ThaiGoon]

There's already a clean coal energy technology. It's being used in Japan. I hope the Thai gov't will consider that when they decide to go for more energy plants.

Thailand should have been putting a lot more into alternative energy research instead of sitting back and relying on cheap oil imports for the last thirty-odd years. It's going to end up paying dear for that omission.

FYI, majority of electricity in Thailand is produced from natural gas. Also there's been efforts to use solar and wind energy. Thai EGAT has already completed the first two phrases of their solar enegry program. You can choose to be ignorant to what the Thai gov't has been trying to do and assume that they are all dumb and don't do anything. Or you can educate yourself before you post, and be more open minded.

[ThaiGoon]

Old news:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/thaienv.html

Thailand is constructing a 42.5 MW solar power plant in the northern province at Mae Hong Son. The plant, which consists of six solar-cell generating units, will be the largest solar-powered station in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) when it is completed in April 2004.

Solar energy is increasing in importance for Thailand, with the Thai government planning to increase its solar power production capacity to 30 MW by 2006.

The Thai government has encouraged the production of electricity from non-conventional and renewable resources. The Small Power Producer (SPP) program has led to some very innovative energy projects. One Thai project company is developing power plants fueled by rice husk as a biofuel.

I hope to see a lot less ignorance shown on here one day.

[chuchok]

Nuclear Fusion could be the way to go.It will probably take a few more years of reserch,but if all goes well,then it could make the burning of fossil fuel completely redundant.

[ThaiGoon]

From June 2005:

http://www.business-in-asia.com/energy/str...tainability.htm

the Thai government has set 2011 as the target date for 8% of the nation’s total energy, representing an estimated 1,900 MW, to be generated from renewable energy sources.

To achieve the 8% goal, the government is encouraging the power generating sector, consisting of Independent Power Producers (IPPs) and Small Power Producers (SPPs) to produce 1,900 MW of power from renewable energy sources.

IPPs are now required to adhere to the Renewable Portfolio Standard (RPS). Under the RPS, power companies that wish to bid to supply power to the Electricity Generating Authority of Thailand (EGAT) must produce 5% of their installed energy generating capacity from renewable sources.

[sbk]

What I can't understand is why Thailand doesn't do what many other nations do, encourage local consumers to produce their own electricity and buy it back from them? Many countries allow people on solar or wind to go on the grid, and when they are producing energy, their meter runs backwards, when they are consuming, it goes forward.

Seems to me that making solar & wind energy more readily available and easier (and cheaper) to use could be one way to encourage renewable energy resources.

[kmart]

Coal is currently powering the "economic miracles" of China and India right now. They can't seem to get it out of the ground fast enough, hence the unlicensed mines and related accidents there, seemingly every week.

Bio-mass power production from rice husks, and the residue from eucalyptus (paper) produce is a good alternative source of power. A few companies around the Kabinburi area use this fuel.

[ThaiGoon]

What I can't understand is why Thailand doesn't do what many other nations do, encourage local consumers to produce their own electricity and buy it back from them? Many countries allow people on solar or wind to go on the grid, and when they are producing energy, their meter runs backwards, when they are consuming, it goes forward.

Seems to me that making solar & wind energy more readily available and easier (and cheaper) to use could be one way to encourage renewable energy resources.

EGAT has already experimented with a solar powered home program in the North. EGAT themselves provided about three hundred thousand homes with solar panels. But so far it's proved to be too expensive, and EGAT has decided to suspend the program. I read this on a Thai newspaper recently (don't remember all the details and can't find an English news source for you.) So to answer your question, I think for majority of Thai people right now, solar energy is still prohibitively expensive. As for wind energy, only in the North Easten region that it could be commercially sustainable (ie have strong and sufficient wind throughout the year). I also don't think a lot of Isan people could afford it themselves. So I guess that's why the Thai gov't still hasn't gone out in full force and encouraged the locals to produce electricity on their own. The locals just can't afford it (even with huge subsidies or any tax incentives). But the gov't is encouraging private companies both Thai and foreign to invest in these renewable energy sources. I also think it would be great if the gov't encourages all the factories to produce energy on their own from solar and wind as well.

[sbk]

Perhaps, but it would make far more sense to do both. No need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Many resorts on the island I live on would love to use solar energy but since the cost of solar is quite prohibitive in Thailand, and the govt doesn't allow for buying back electricity, few do. Also, I must point out that solar material are much cheaper in the US, so I suspect it has more to do with EGAT maintaining its monopoly than on some idea that poor people can't afford it. We all know there are small businesses who can afford it, so why not accommodate them?

[ThaiGoon]

Sbk, even today, solar enegery is still considered expensive to avearage Americans (I'm talking about the startup costs.) So it will be a few more years before it becomes cheap enough to be readily available to everyone. It stilll costs about $20-30k to have all the solar panels installed to generate enough electricity for an American house. I don't know about wind energy.

As for EGAT wanting to hold on to their monopoly, please read what I posted about IPPs and SPPs. There will be a lot more IPP's and SPP's in Thailand in the next couple of decades. The gov't, ie EGAT, is encouraging them.

Edited May 23, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[sbk]

I disagree. A 10,000$ on-grid home system would be feasible for most middle class Americans, esp since tax incentives are offered and the electricity is bought back by the power company.

And if such a thing were available in Thailand many small resort owners would consider it as a good investment as well.

Just saw your addition. Perhaps they are encouraging them now but that isn't to say that the whole 'monopoly mindset" was in force for many many years. And, it seems to me, that it will take quite a few more years for that to change completely. It may be changing now, but glacially slow.

[ThaiGoon]

Sbk, you can do the calculation yourself:

http://findsolar.com/index.php?page=estimatoroverview (I think my estimate of 20-30k is a bit low. )

Good luck finding "10,000$ on-grid home system".

[ThaiGoon]

I'll give you a sample result. I put in a house in California for electricity monthly bill of about 150$ (decent estimate imo) and the "assumed installation cost" came out to be $ 67,500. That's a for a house, not even a small resort.

[sbk]

Sbk, you can do the calculation yourself:

http://findsolar.com/index.php?page=estimatoroverview (I think my estimate of 20-30k is a bit low. )

Good luck finding "10,000$ on-grid home system".

http://www.solarhome.org/solarhomekits.html

[sbk]

Thaigoon, my father was selling solar unit for houses back in the early 80's. Please don't lecture me like I am an idiot. I do have an idea what I am talking about.

It is possible for people to have a differing opinion to yours.

Something to remember when posting.

[Jet Gorgon]

I'm all for the solar-powered programs, especially for sunny Thailand. Have the designers fixed the battery charge prog so the batteries can store and run energy gathered in sunlight hours at night?

[ThaiGoon]

Thaigoon, my father was selling solar unit for houses back in the early 80's. Please don't lecture me like I am an idiot. I do have an idea what I am talking about.

It is possible for people to have a differing opinion to yours.

Something to remember when posting.

I wasn't lecturing. Why did you take it that way? And nice find for those systems. They seemed to be the lowest estimates and most likely don't include any other charges like labour etc. Plus I don't know what kind of a house their systems could support or if their systems could supply enough electricity to a typical middle class American home.

PS. I know a lot of people on here have a differing opinion to mine.

Edited May 23, 2007 by ThaiGoon

[raslin]

Old news:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/thaienv.html

Thailand is constructing a 42.5 MW solar power plant in the northern province at Mae Hong Son. The plant, which consists of six solar-cell generating units, will be the largest solar-powered station in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) when it is completed in April 2004.

Solar energy is increasing in importance for Thailand, with the Thai government planning to increase its solar power production capacity to 30 MW by 2006.

The Thai government has encouraged the production of electricity from non-conventional and renewable resources. The Small Power Producer (SPP) program has led to some very innovative energy projects. One Thai project company is developing power plants fueled by rice husk as a biofuel.

I hope to see a lot less ignorance shown on here one day.

So we had 42.5 Mw in 2004 and this was increased to 30 MW by 2006. Will this be increased to 0 Mw soon?

[ThaiGoon]

Old news:

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/cabs/thaienv.html

Thailand is constructing a 42.5 MW solar power plant in the northern province at Mae Hong Son. The plant, which consists of six solar-cell generating units, will be the largest solar-powered station in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) when it is completed in April 2004.

Solar energy is increasing in importance for Thailand, with the Thai government planning to increase its solar power production capacity to 30 MW by 2006.

The Thai government has encouraged the production of electricity from non-conventional and renewable resources. The Small Power Producer (SPP) program has led to some very innovative energy projects. One Thai project company is developing power plants fueled by rice husk as a biofuel.

I hope to see a lot less ignorance shown on here one day.

So we had 42.5 Mw in 2004 and this was increased to 30 MW by 2006. Will this be increased to 0 Mw soon?

42.5 MW could be their maximum capacity. They probably expected to produce 30 MW by 2006.

[cdnvic]

I hope to see a lot less ignorance shown on here one day.

You're leaving?