Chiang Mai Artist Refused Re-entry At Chang Klong

[Ulysses G.]

Everyone leaving Thailand with hopes of returning needs to consider this story.

From Chiang Mai Mail English Newspaper

Visa run turns into a nightmare for Chiang Mai ex-pat

One of the few foreign artists based in Chiang Mai, 63 year-old Alain, endured a penniless week in Laos and lost 4.5 kg in weight after being denied re-entry to Thailand on what began as an ordinary visa trip.

“I don’t know what would have happened but for the generosity and trust of a guest house owner in Huay Sai” recalled Alain. “He let me stay there free for 4 days until some money came into his bank from a friend in Chiangmai. I was eating one meal a day, mainly noodles, and never drank so much water in my life!”

Having left Chiang Khong in Thailand and crossed the Mekong River into Laos 2 weeks ago, Alain was horrified to be refused re-entry because he did not possess an outbound air ticket from Thailand.

“All the Thai official would say was ‘The law is the law’ over and over again” said Alain.

After receiving 5,000b from the friend, Alain paid the guest house and embarked on a bone-shaking 29 hour bus ride to Vientiane, the capital of Laos. Meanwhile, friends in Chiangmai mounted displays of his work at The Blue Parrot Guest House on soi 3, Loi Kroh and at the Writers Club Wine Bar, Rachadamnoen Road, to help raise funds.

“In Vientiane I met a Frenchman I hadn’t seen for 6 years and he helped me to get a tourist visa. My re-entry across the Friendship Bridge into Nongkhai was so smooth I could hardly believe it!”

Three prints on silk sold the first evening they were displayed at The Blue Parrot, and both displays continue until their creator is back on his feet.

[lamphun]

It's a bit difficult to comment on this without knowing the background. The newspaper article doesn't give his visa status or how long he'd been in the country. He appears to have gone to Laos without any money. A requirement for re-entry is 10,000baht in your pocket.

It would be nice to know the full circumstances.

Edited May 23, 2007 by lamphun

[MyPenRye]

Agreed in terms of background and such. It is difficult to judge. However, assuming the best scenario, it is strange.

I understand that soldiers/policemen have to obey the rules and laws, but what happens if the law is borderline ... unmanageable or plain illogical! For instance, we are all familiar with filling those dreaded visa applications. Not too sure if it is everywhere the same, but in my country/city, it asks to specify the airline company, flight number, and date. However, why would I buy a ticket BEFORE being given the right to enter a country? What if they refuse the visa? Then what? $1000 gone? And, if I don't put anything down? Will they refuse my visa application on the basis of not being completed? This question was asked in writing and they told me to leave it blank. Now I am 99% sure that I will get the visa, but weirder things have happened. For instance, what if I am a victim of identity theft or the girl at the counter does not like my blue eyes? (in the past, I made assumptions that they would accept both my visa app. and my visa run, setting in stone my flight's dates).

Of course, the same issue applies when you are doing visa runs. Any solutions for this dilemma? For instance, what if you want to have an open ticket (a ticket that you can set a date at a later time ... not sure of the jargon here). All this is very confusing. Am I the only one confused?

Edited May 23, 2007 by MyPenRye

[Ta22]

Trust me when i say , Thailand hab dbeen KIND to Everyone of us .

And their LAW and RULE is to be respected ,

anyone taken it for granted would have the least welcoming result .

Refuse renetry is so common in YOUR COUNTRY . just that it not commonly spoken .

And also to travel without money to cross the bored . and need 5000 baht from frireds , sound in logical also .

if you are goiing to arm yourself , with jus enough for your bus ticket and border close fee , why go to chang kong ? for LOAS? it is a more expensive trip then MAE SAI ?

Alot of time the ilogical person is US ..

The confusion start when you ty to BEAT THE LAW and think you are smarter tryign to play with words ,

well you can win a few time , but when it got up to you , don't cry . or yell wolf .

there is a different between , easy going law , and strict law ,

that thai is using the random strict way .. which give alot of US , the ease , so don't make it harder since many had change .

and like i said , if you dislike the law here so much why are you'll here ?

[chownah]

He lost 4.5 kilos and has "never drank so much water in my life". Sounds like he's an alcoholic and lost weight because he couldn't get his hourly dosage of beer.....a sad tale for sure.

[jumnien]

There are daily AA meetings in Chiang Mai. Let's hope he finds them. Travelling internationally without any funds or apparent ability to travel on - is this guy nuts or what? Is Thailand supposed to be a refuge for the Western world's penniless insane?

Edited May 23, 2007 by mdeland

[Maestro]

The way I read the article quoted in the OP, 63-year-old Alain’s visa status is that of a tourist, he makes his living in Chiang Mai selling his silk prints, and he left Thailand with the intention to re-enter the country on the same day without a visa (visa exemption with 30 day permission to stay)

The article’s references to “visa run” and “visa trip” are misleading. Alain had no visa, nor did he leave Thailand with the intention of getting a visa. Only after being refused visa-exempt entry without an onward ticket did he go and get a tourist visa.

The expressions “ex-pat” and “artist based in Chiang Mai” suggest that Alain has been living in Thailand for a long lime as a tourist. Nothing illegal about that, except that he might possibly be working illegally, but the lack of a work permit would have nothing to do directly with his refused entry without onward ticket. Indirectly, an Immigration officer at an entry point may suspect that a long-term tourist in Thailand could be working illegally and the officer has the authority to ask any arriving tourist without visa to show an onward ticket and to refuse entry if such ticket is not produced.

--------------

Maestro

[sceadugenga]

There's a lot of guys like this drifting around Asia, no money, no income, living from day to day. A good immigration officer could pick them on sight, may be this one had Mia Noi problems and took it out on a farang.

Why would any one go to Chiang Khong on a visa run, could he be too well known at Mae Sai?

Actually might try it there myself, losing 4.5 kilos in a week sounds OK to me.

[Ulysses G.]

Actually might try it there myself, losing 4.5 kilos in a week sounds OK to me.

[mcgriffith]

I truly feel sorry for the guy. I guess 'cause he's an Artiste with silk screen work, perhaps.

But going to an obscure border crossing for a "visa run", when EVERYONE knows that visa runs are largely history, makes me wonder about the rest of the facts in this case, as was posted above.

There are a lot of marginal people here, who are being squeezed by the enforcement of immigration laws that were always on the books, who are going to have to rethink their continued residence in Thailand.

It is obvious the Thai Gov't (not unreasonably) only wants visitors with a minimum amount of money.

Being refused entry because you don't have a ticket out, or at least $100 in not unfair, IMHO....

[chuchok]

He lost 4.5 kilos and has "never drank so much water in my life". Sounds like he's an alcoholic and lost weight because he couldn't get his hourly dosage of beer.....a sad tale for sure.

As always chownah, you make a top post on a thread that you know nothing about.Well done.

[chanchao]

I hate to say it, but regulations were amended SPECIFICALLY to catch cases like this. At a border like Mae Sai they would perhaps have warned him before going out.. But Chiang Khong isn't really a border-hop place because there's the cost of a Laos visa and a boat crossing, making it more involved than just going to Mae Sai.

[chuchok]

^you don't say.good job you are a bright boy and know everthing in this situation.... pfffft!

[chanchao]

You're adding a lot of insight today. That's the second post in a single topic only consisting of dismissing another poster! Let's have some deeper insight then, or alternatively just let it go.

[lamphun]

There are a lot of marginal people here, who are being squeezed by the enforcement of immigration laws that were always on the books, who are going to have to rethink their continued residence in Thailand.

The majority of wasters, that I've encountered here over the years, never used to do visa runs. They just came on a tourist or non "O" then overstayed for years because they were too wasted to nip over the border. The Chiangmai ripper being a classic example.

[chuchok]

You're adding a lot of insight today. That's the second post in a single topic only consisting of dismissing another poster! Let's have some deeper insight then, or alternatively just let it go.

Sorry about that chanchao.Thought you was chownah.I'll get my glasses.

[Gonzo the Face]

I would urge caution to the artist fellow.....seems that he is hanging by a thread....

As others say.... going to Ch. Khong...??? It costs upward of 1600 B to cross there [dependent on nationality] and only 500 baht to cross at Mae Sai..... plus the additional cost to get there..... does sound like milking the system and trying to avoid Mae Sai perhaps due to being too familiar at the border....

another thing possibly...... if he is selling his art work in CM , does this not require a work permit as he is deriving income for his efforts ???

Sad case but some people do work themselves into deeper problems...... In any event best of luck to him

Edited May 24, 2007 by Gonzo the Face

[Ulysses G.]

Alain has been selling his art in Chiang Mai for years. I have no idea how good it is supposed to be, but it is better than I could do.

[lamphun]

If that's the case then this is definately publicity he could do without. Telling his "story" to the CM Mail doesn't seem too smart.

Edited May 24, 2007 by lamphun

[MyPenRye]

Trust me when i say , Thailand hab dbeen KIND to Everyone of us .

...And their LAW and RULE is to be respected...

Not trying to defend this fellow. Don't know him and don't know the details. I cannot say whether he is illogical or not based on the limited information given.

In a more general way, a few things about laws:

1) It is not because there is a law that it is a good law. Laws are arbitrary and sometimes illogical. (Women were prohibited by law to vote. Was that a good law? Alcohol/tobacco are drugs, but are legal; other drugs are not?)

2) It is not because there is a law that you have to obey it religiously. We are all individuals with different abilities. Why do the 70 year old man or woman can drive as fast as me? Why do I have to drive as slow as him or her? Do you wait for the red light to turn green in an unfrequented intersection in the early hours of the morning?

3) Laws can be badly written (and often are). (Why are speed limits the same at 12 noon and 12 midnight? ... just to name one).

4) Laws do not often address the issue. There are laws against panhandling in many countries, but if there was a law that would limit the kinds of money/assets people have (and allow a more equitable distribution of wealth amongst all citizens and/or a better education system designed to provide more help for the poorest and less educated and more suitable jobs for all students), there would not be less panhandling and crime in general.

5) Laws sometimes are counterproductive, as laws against drugs. Drugs are legal. Alcohol and tobacco are drugs. Yet, alcohol and tobacco are legal. (Why? Because governments can tax them). If we were to legalize all drugs, would all people become addicts? Are all people alcoholics? Cigarette smokers? Given the proper educational systems and advertising campaigns (and legalization to reduce profit, traficking, incentives, etc), we know that there would be fewer people using drugs. Not all people would be, but more people would be and more money and resources used to fight "illegal" drug business could be used to prevent addiction or use/abuse. (I have never smoked one cigarette or used any drugs, except for the occasional alcholic drinks, BTW.)

6) Some laws (see above) are designed to help tacitly or not crime organizations (and the civil servants whose hands are getting greased).

7) HOWEVER, many laws are generally useful, especially when they protect people from danger or abuse.

Like with everything, the middle of the road is usually the best path to take (except during rush hour ).

(In general, I make up my own rules and laws. If it is not bothering ANYONE [within reasons], I do it.)

Edited May 24, 2007 by Maestro
Quoted text reduced. Unnecessary to quote the entire post.

[bungalowbill]

Visa run turns into a nightmare for Chiang Mai ex-pat

Sadly, It sounds like Alain is a prime example of the type of tourist that has become undesirable in LOS. What also comes to my mind like most rational people is why travel without emergency money? Also, I'm wondering how was he dressed? Was he neat and clean and dressed politely? Whether we westerners like it or not appearance and what's on the surface is culturaly very important in Thailand and can make a difference in these types of situations.

Edited May 24, 2007 by Maestro
Quoted text reduced. Unnecessary to quote the entire post.

[chinthee]

One of the few foreign artists based in Chiang Mai, 63 year-old Alain, endured a penniless week in Laos and lost 4.5 kg in weight after being denied re-entry to Thailand on what began as an ordinary visa trip.

Now I know what the phrase "starving artist" means...

[funfun]

One of the few foreign artists based in Chiang Mai, 63 year-old Alain, endured a penniless week in Laos and lost 4.5 kg in weight after being denied re-entry to Thailand on what began as an ordinary visa trip.

Now I know what the phrase "starving artist" means...

Well theres 2 ways of looking at this!

1. Stupid, thick, french old man, goes to another country, over a boarder, he has known to have visa problems, from a coutry that is changing its visa rules, without taking any money or visa card etc, not even some onions, even an 8 year old wouldnt do it! [deleted by moderator]!

2. see above!

Edited May 26, 2007 by Maestro
Abusive language deleted.

[Crow Boy]

Everyone leaving Thailand with hopes of returning needs to consider this story.

From Chiang Mai Mail English Newspaper

Visa run turns into a nightmare for Chiang Mai ex-pat

UG is Alaine back in CM? There is obviously more to this story that has been printed in the intial post. I am ignoring the majority of replies that have been uploaded without resorting to any knowledge or facts.

CB

[silverhawk_usa]

...In a more general way, a few things about laws...

I would agree that some laws are not well thought out, etc. HOWEVER, in the end "the law is the law" and if someone chooses to enforce it to it's letter, and you have violated that law, you lose. Simple as that. Yes, arbitrary and inconsistent enforcement adds confusion but it happens. If you ignore that red light at midnight and a police officer happens to be there and chooses to enforce it, you lose (true, not likely in LOS). One may choose to take the middle of the road or select which laws one wishes to adhere, but if you are caught, you lose! Don't complain it was YOUR choice.

BTW, before I get "attacked", I do not claim to comply with "all laws" anymore than anyone else.

[lamphun]

There is another issue here. Generally the Thai immigration police at Mai Sai on the burmese border have stopped people with incorrect documentation or insufficient funds from leaving through that post and given them a few days to get out via some other safe route or have warned them that they'll let it pass once but not again. The reason for this I presume, is that they don't want the bad publicity of tourists being stranded in burma on a one day pass. Going into Laos (Nong Khai) or Cambodia you don't get this courtesy and therefore can always get a surprise on the way back. However the Laotian border from Chiang Khong is in the middle of nowhere and because of this it would be better if Thai immigration barred people from leaving rather than from re-entry.

[expatwannabe]

For a while I was feeling sorry for this aged frenchman. But then I got to thinking, "no money... in Laos... 63 years old...". I'm sorry, but I don't step out the door without my credit card, ATM card, and some cash. Even though I think the Thai rules on visas have become too inconsistent for a legitimate country, this frenchman is a [deleted by moderator]. No one with half a brain leaves themselves without the funds to stay a few nights in a laotian bungalow. He got only half of what he deserved - he still made it back to Chiang Mai.

Edited May 26, 2007 by Maestro
Abusive language deleted.

[meadish_sweetball]

I feel sorry for the man, but I also feel he should try to get his act together, because the times they are a-changing.

[BossHogg]

i am genuinely surprised by this as the guy clearly has been living here for somtime......therefore, he knows, TITS ! Anything can happen at any time when doing a visa run.Why would you put yourself in a situation where you are stranded with out any money ? i wouldnt have and never will..

Had he gone to Mae Sai and been asked for proof of funds hed have been stuck there too.Either place hed have been screwed.There must be more to this story?what would he have done without friends in chiangmai? Does anyone hear of this happening often?