Alien Employment Act To Be Amended To Prevent Illegal Immigrant Workers

[Jai Dee]

Alien Employment Act to be amended to prevent illegal immigrant workers

The Ministry of Labour urges for the Alien Labour Law to be amended to suit the Thai industrial sector and to prevent illegal immigrants from smuggling into Thailand.

The Director-General of the Department of Employment, Mr. Manoon Poonyakriyakorn, reports that many alien labourers are living in Thailand. Over 80,000 foreign workers have entered the country during the past six months while 5,600 people are traveling to and from the country in each month.

Due to national security reasons, 21 units of related agencies will work collaboratively to prevent illegal immigrants from entering Thailand. These include entrepreneurs and employers who are currently supporting about 9,000 illegal alien workers.

The authority is expediting the amendment of the Alien Employment Act and the Labour Protection and Welfare Act to allocate labourers to appropriate industries.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 29 May 2007

[Mid]

10 will get you 1 that these folks are doing job's nobody else wants .............................................

[astral]

Over 80,000 foreign workers have entered the country during the past six months

How does he know that?

If they were counted as illegal why did immigration let them in?

while 5,600 people are traveling to and from the country in each month.

Visa runners??

Due to national security reasons, 21 units of related agencies will work collaboratively to prevent illegal immigrants from entering Thailand.

These include entrepreneurs and employers who are currently supporting about 9,000 illegal alien workers.

Another interesting statistic.

So who supports (employs??) the other 71,000??

[brianinbangkok]

Changing the law will only hurt those immigrants who come here and apply for a workpermit and visa.

So it does not seem like a methode of stopping illegal immigrants at all , only more border patrols can do that.

Looks like they are just drumming up support to make it even harder to get a Visa and workpermit ?

Fact 74400 of these illegals do not have a WP or a Visa or even any passport and just wander over the border from neigboring countries is a small detail hehehe

Thailand needs these cheap immigrant workers to do jobs the Thai do not want to do anymore , you can't stop these people from coming here and I just hope they change the law so these people can work here legaly and be protected by the labour laws.

Edited May 29, 2007 by brianinbangkok

[Ijustwannateach]

As in the recent "teacher crackdown," the most likely effect of making it more difficult for the legal group is the *increase* in illegals. Cracking down on those who are legal has *no discouraging effect* for those who are illegal anyway. It simply means the more qualified and talented (in whatever industries/skills) will find easier places to work.

"Steven"

[brianwl]

Here in the US we have some 20 million illegals. The politicians keep telling us the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do and that they should be allowed to stay on some type of amnesty deal. In fact they don't even call them "illegals" they are officially known as "undocumented workers." Calling them illegals would make them criminals and we wouldn't want that, now would we.

Using just a tad bit of common sense it is really easy to realize that once those "illegals" become legal they will have to pay taxes and will not be able to afford to do the same jobs they are doing for the same amount of money.

So, are they truly jobs we won't do or are they doing jobs in conditions and for pay we wouldn't tolerate. I think it's the latter and once they become legal, they won't tolerate it either.

Either way they are a huge drain on our society because of the cost of their social services, medical services, and the education of their children. Not to mention the cost of paying for their crimes such as driving without a license or insurance or the gangs such as MS-13.

I think any country that can stop illegals is well justified to do so.

[DrFisher]

I had this conversation the other day with someone who is building a house. Most of the labor is from Laos or Burma I'm not sure what the Thai minimum wage is but it's less than 200B per day (I think) and my question was how much are you really saving by hieing cheep labor?

[richard10365]

Here in the US we have some 20 million illegals. The politicians keep telling us the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do and that they should be allowed to stay on some type of amnesty deal.

I think the excuse some politicians use to prevent illegals from working has run its course and can't be used anymore. The new law raising minimum wage to $7.25/hour will do away with that. Farmers and others are going to have to start forking out this money or face stiff fines by the department of labor.

I don't think the Thai Alien Employment Act is targeting farang workers but instead workers from poorer countries surrounding Thailand who, because of their skin color and ethnic makeup, make it easier for them to slip back and forth across the border with ease.

[brianinbangkok]

Here in the US we have some 20 million illegals. The politicians keep telling us the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do and that they should be allowed to stay on some type of amnesty deal.

I think the excuse some politicians use to prevent illegals from working has run its course and can't be used anymore. The new law raising minimum wage to $7.25/hour will do away with that. Farmers and others are going to have to start forking out this money or face stiff fines by the department of labor.

I don't think the Thai Alien Employment Act is targeting farang workers but instead workers from poorer countries surrounding Thailand who, because of their skin color and ethnic makeup, make it easier for them to slip back and forth across the border with ease.

The Thai employment Act is to protect jobs for the Thai !

It was first meant to keep out the chinese immigrants out and now is being used by the descendants of these chinese to keep farangs out.

Changing the Thai Emloyment Act will only have negative effects for farangs , because the "target group" you speak of do not apply for VISA or WP they work here illegal so they really do not care about any changes to that Act.

Farangs are the group who work here according to the rules and will be the one effected by changes to the Act , and nobody else , guess what, the Thai Gov knows this.

Fact is as long as western countries let Thailand get away with this its a good deal for the Thai , they can own and work in our western countries like a local once the get a residency permit there.

How long do you think Thailand needs to think if the rest of the world told Thailand "you can no longer work here without workpermits , you can no longer own land or a business ?

Its because our countries do not make bilateral agreements regarding this , thats why so many farangs are having problems in Thailand.

I believe there is actually one african country who has a bilateral agreement regarding work permits with Thailand , nationals from that country do not need a workpermit for thailand but do need a visa....

Why can't western countries do this ?

Seems they had no problem making joint statements when the Thai government said it was going to change the Foreign Business Act ..... but then again thats for the big business boys with money so really important for our governments to talk to the Thai about.

Edited May 30, 2007 by brianinbangkok

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Here in the US we have some 20 million illegals. The politicians keep telling us the illegals are doing jobs Americans won't do and that they should be allowed to stay on some type of amnesty deal.

I think the excuse some politicians use to prevent illegals from working has run its course and can't be used anymore. The new law raising minimum wage to $7.25/hour will do away with that. Farmers and others are going to have to start forking out this money or face stiff fines by the department of labor.

I don't think the Thai Alien Employment Act is targeting farang workers but instead workers from poorer countries surrounding Thailand who, because of their skin color and ethnic makeup, make it easier for them to slip back and forth across the border with ease.

The Thai employment Act is to protect jobs for the Thai !

It was first meant to keep out the chinese immigrants out and now is being used by the descendants of these chinese to keep farangs out.

Changing the Thai Emloyment Act will only have negative effects for farangs , because the "target group" you speak of do not apply for VISA or WP they work here illegal so they really do not care about any changes to that Act.

Farangs are the group who work here according to the rules and will be the one effected by changes to the Act , and nobody else , guess what, the Thai Gov knows this.

Fact is as long as western countries let Thailand get away with this its a good deal for the Thai , they can own and work in our western countries like a local once the get a residency permit there.

How long do you think Thailand needs to think if the rest of the world told Thailand "you can no longer work here without workpermits , you can no longer own land or a business ?

Its because our countries do not make bilateral agreements regarding this , thats why so many farangs are having problems in Thailand.

I believe there is actually one african country who has a bilateral agreement regarding work permits with Thailand , nationals from that country do not need a workpermit for thailand but do need a visa....

Why can't western countries do this ?

Seems they had no problem making joint statements when the Thai government said it was going to change the Foreign Business Act ..... but then again thats for the big business boys with money so really important for our governments to talk to the Thai about.

Guess what? The US has a bilateral agreement with Thailand. Its called, "The Treaty Amity and Economic Relations". Article IV, Section 5 of that treaty states, "Nationals and companies of either Party shall enjoy the right to control and manage the enterprises which they have established or acquired within the territories of the other Party, and shall be permitted without discrimination to do all things normally found necessary and proper to the effective conduct of enterprises engaged in like activities."

Now, try telling that to the Ministry of Labor. They will laugh you out of their office. Bilateral agreements are only good when both parties honor the agreement. Thailand selectively ignores this one. The treaty provisions for Thais are respected in the US and in fact there is substantial discussion in the Federal Register on what is required to be in compliance with the terms of this and similar treaties. Thailand has no such concerns. In Thailand reciprocity is in order to get benefits for Thais but then ignored before the ink is dry. Reciprocity in Thailand under that treaty is essentially non existant.

Edited May 30, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[expatwannabe]

Fact is as long as western countries let Thailand get away with this its a good deal for the Thai , they can own and work in our western countries like a local once the get a residency permit there. How long do you think Thailand needs to think if the rest of the world told Thailand "you can no longer work here without workpermits , you can no longer own land or a business ? Its because our countries do not make bilateral agreements regarding this , thats why so many farangs are having problems in Thailand. I believe there is actually one african country who has a bilateral agreement regarding work permits with Thailand , nationals from that country do not need a workpermit for thailand but do need a visa....

Why can't western countries do this ?

Sure, Thais can own real property and work in western countries once they get residency. But who do we allow to get residency? Very, very few Thais! Only if they marry, or if they're very successful, can they even think about the possibility of immigration to a western country.

Yes, Thailand is very xenophobic about who can own property. And while I would love to buy land here, I completely understand the Thai position. Thailand was never colonized by a western power and they're proud of that. Good for them! They keep these restrictions on foreigners owning land so that the poorest Thais won't be pushed off their lands. Yes, sometimes they victimize their own people. But at least they prevent foreigners from doing it. Bilateral agreements have little to do with owning land. They are used for defining tax and business relationships.

No africans can come to Thailand and work without a work permit. Some, however, can come and get a 90-day stamp on arrival, whereas most westerners only get 30 days. We don't even allow the Thais a non-immigrant "visitor's" visa unless they have a good job, family, house, and other significant ties to their home country. But the Thais let us come to Thailand for 30 days without paying anything. They're the ones being generous.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Fact is as long as western countries let Thailand get away with this its a good deal for the Thai , they can own and work in our western countries like a local once the get a residency permit there. How long do you think Thailand needs to think if the rest of the world told Thailand "you can no longer work here without workpermits , you can no longer own land or a business ? Its because our countries do not make bilateral agreements regarding this , thats why so many farangs are having problems in Thailand. I believe there is actually one african country who has a bilateral agreement regarding work permits with Thailand , nationals from that country do not need a workpermit for thailand but do need a visa....

Why can't western countries do this ?

Sure, Thais can own real property and work in western countries once they get residency. But who do we allow to get residency? Very, very few Thais! Only if they marry, or if they're very successful, can they even think about the possibility of immigration to a western country.

Yes, Thailand is very xenophobic about who can own property. And while I would love to buy land here, I completely understand the Thai position. Thailand was never colonized by a western power and they're proud of that. Good for them! They keep these restrictions on foreigners owning land so that the poorest Thais won't be pushed off their lands. Yes, sometimes they victimize their own people. But at least they prevent foreigners from doing it. Bilateral agreements have little to do with owning land. They are used for defining tax and business relationships.

No africans can come to Thailand and work without a work permit. Some, however, can come and get a 90-day stamp on arrival, whereas most westerners only get 30 days. We don't even allow the Thais a non-immigrant "visitor's" visa unless they have a good job, family, house, and other significant ties to their home country. But the Thais let us come to Thailand for 30 days without paying anything. They're the ones being generous.

Under the Treaty of Amity, Thais can obtain a visa and open a business as long as the amount of investment is reasonable in relationship to the type of business being opened. Some immigration attorneys quote thirty thousand dollars as the investment threshold to obtain a visa for some service type businesses. People from other countries that do not have similar treaties with the US must invest a minimum of one million dollars.

Edited May 30, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[brianinbangkok]

Sure, Thais can own real property and work in western countries once they get residency. But who do we allow to get residency? Very, very few Thais! Only if they marry, or if they're very successful, can they even think about the possibility of immigration to a western country.

Yes, Thailand is very xenophobic about who can own property. And while I would love to buy land here, I completely understand the Thai position. Thailand was never colonized by a western power and they're proud of that. Good for them! They keep these restrictions on foreigners owning land so that the poorest Thais won't be pushed off their lands. Yes, sometimes they victimize their own people. But at least they prevent foreigners from doing it. Bilateral agreements have little to do with owning land. They are used for defining tax and business relationships.

No africans can come to Thailand and work without a work permit. Some, however, can come and get a 90-day stamp on arrival, whereas most westerners only get 30 days. We don't even allow the Thais a non-immigrant "visitor's" visa unless they have a good job, family, house, and other significant ties to their home country. But the Thais let us come to Thailand for 30 days without paying anything. They're the ones being generous.

Its also very difficult to get a residency permit for Thailand for farangs !

So if a Thai does get a residency permit in Europe why should he/she then be allowed to work without a workpermit and own land and start a business like a lokal ?

And a farang with a residency permit still needs a WP , can not own land or a business.

Besides I said 1 african country not all africans

I believe Kenya has some sort of agreement with Thailand regarding workpermits , but I will try and find this , but okay for now i retract that statement as I have found no proof yet.

Fact is Thai laws state foreigners can not own land here unless the are from a country that has a bilateral agreement with Thailand regarding this.

And also the Thai Gov web sites say "most foreigners" need a workpermit to work in Thailand...

So to me its seems as some do not need a wp and some countries have agreements about owning land ?

Fact Thailand has never been colonized just makes it easier to deal with Thailand , we have no guilt feelings or reasons to give them preferential treatment.

Thailand likes to say they have never been colonized is a myth , Japan took over control of Thailand during 2e WW they like to forget this "detail" as it brings up very painfull memories to older Thais.

Or you think they where equal partners with the Japs just like France and the Germans in Europe

The Thai can also thank the allied forces for getting rid of the Japs for them.

Without the USA's help they would also have been part of the communist empire all around Thailand or do think the Thai army scared China/Vietnam away ?

So they got us to thank for never been colonized !

So u can admire the Thai for never having been colonized all you want.

Land reforms and land ownership laws where introduced after Chinese immigrants had taken all the land from poor ethnic Thais .

They where never intended to protect the Thai from farangs.

And guess who actually owns most business and land in Thailand today >>> Thai nationals with a Chinese face is my guess.

So the law did not work in the long run

The land laws just prevent the normal working farang from buying a house here , all the big Thai land development companies have BIG foreign shareholders, so they can build houses and buy land in Thailand and make a profit doing this here.

But I think I have gone of topic here so I will stop now

Edited May 30, 2007 by brianinbangkok

[highdiver]

Fact is as long as western countries let Thailand get away with this its a good deal for the Thai , they can own and work in our western countries like a local once the get a residency permit there. How long do you think Thailand needs to think if the rest of the world told Thailand "you can no longer work here without workpermits , you can no longer own land or a business ? Its because our countries do not make bilateral agreements regarding this , thats why so many farangs are having problems in Thailand. I believe there is actually one african country who has a bilateral agreement regarding work permits with Thailand , nationals from that country do not need a workpermit for thailand but do need a visa....

Why can't western countries do this ?

Sure, Thais can own real property and work in western countries once they get residency. But who do we allow to get residency? Very, very few Thais! Only if they marry, or if they're very successful, can they even think about the possibility of immigration to a western country.

Yes, Thailand is very xenophobic about who can own property. And while I would love to buy land here, I completely understand the Thai position. Thailand was never colonized by a western power and they're proud of that. Good for them! They keep these restrictions on foreigners owning land so that the poorest Thais won't be pushed off their lands. Yes, sometimes they victimize their own people. But at least they prevent foreigners from doing it. Bilateral agreements have little to do with owning land. They are used for defining tax and business relationships.

No africans can come to Thailand and work without a work permit. Some, however, can come and get a 90-day stamp on arrival, whereas most westerners only get 30 days. We don't even allow the Thais a non-immigrant "visitor's" visa unless they have a good job, family, house, and other significant ties to their home country. But the Thais let us come to Thailand for 30 days without paying anything. They're the ones being generous.

Under the Treaty of Amity, Thais can obtain a visa and open a business as long as the amount of investment is reasonable in relationship to the type of business being opened. Some immigration attorneys quote thirty thousand dollars as the investment threshold to obtain a visa for some service type businesses. People from other countries that do not have similar treaties with the US must invest a minimum of one million dollars.

lets check the american side of his this equasion.

to work in america you need a green card(work permit). i dont know if you know but the chance of getting one is far lesser then wining the lottery.

Eb(5) Immigrant Investors. and E2 treaty investors that reside in the USA

Individual invests $500,000 in a high unemployment area (150% of national unemployment rate) or $1,000,000 elsewhere and hires 10 persons within 2 years, or invests in a Regional Center and may use job multiplier studies instead of direct employment.

is that bilateral?

Americans can come here when they want on Visa on arrival. however Thais are requested to go thrugh a humiliating interogation to even get a tourist a visa to the US. and even after getting the visa you can still be refused entry by the passport controll with out any explenations.

the chances of a thai muslim to get a tourist visa to the us no matter if his filthy rich are zero.

that is bilateral?

American owned companies in Thailand issue a work permit for american staff with out any problems.and if they are a BOI approved they have special office that takes care of that for them in less then 3 hours.

The US has a quata for each segment of buisness and if it is over quata you cant get a work permit.

try and get a thai employee in to the US for a high tech company. the answer was try and apply next year.

thailand has its own restrictions as to land ownership and forign ownership and controlls, however american that would like to invest through the BOI or buisneses in manufactoring are granted tax benefits. full controll and full ownership.

the purpose of the treaty was to not to enable american or thais to open bars and resteraunts in each others teritory.

[ChiangMaiAmerican]

Fact is as long as western countries let Thailand get away with this its a good deal for the Thai , they can own and work in our western countries like a local once the get a residency permit there. How long do you think Thailand needs to think if the rest of the world told Thailand "you can no longer work here without workpermits , you can no longer own land or a business ? Its because our countries do not make bilateral agreements regarding this , thats why so many farangs are having problems in Thailand. I believe there is actually one african country who has a bilateral agreement regarding work permits with Thailand , nationals from that country do not need a workpermit for thailand but do need a visa....

Why can't western countries do this ?

Sure, Thais can own real property and work in western countries once they get residency. But who do we allow to get residency? Very, very few Thais! Only if they marry, or if they're very successful, can they even think about the possibility of immigration to a western country.

Yes, Thailand is very xenophobic about who can own property. And while I would love to buy land here, I completely understand the Thai position. Thailand was never colonized by a western power and they're proud of that. Good for them! They keep these restrictions on foreigners owning land so that the poorest Thais won't be pushed off their lands. Yes, sometimes they victimize their own people. But at least they prevent foreigners from doing it. Bilateral agreements have little to do with owning land. They are used for defining tax and business relationships.

No africans can come to Thailand and work without a work permit. Some, however, can come and get a 90-day stamp on arrival, whereas most westerners only get 30 days. We don't even allow the Thais a non-immigrant "visitor's" visa unless they have a good job, family, house, and other significant ties to their home country. But the Thais let us come to Thailand for 30 days without paying anything. They're the ones being generous.

Under the Treaty of Amity, Thais can obtain a visa and open a business as long as the amount of investment is reasonable in relationship to the type of business being opened. Some immigration attorneys quote thirty thousand dollars as the investment threshold to obtain a visa for some service type businesses. People from other countries that do not have similar treaties with the US must invest a minimum of one million dollars.

lets check the american side of his this equasion.

to work in america you need a green card(work permit). i dont know if you know but the chance of getting one is far lesser then wining the lottery.

Eb(5) Immigrant Investors. and E2 treaty investors that reside in the USA

Individual invests $500,000 in a high unemployment area (150% of national unemployment rate) or $1,000,000 elsewhere and hires 10 persons within 2 years, or invests in a Regional Center and may use job multiplier studies instead of direct employment.

is that bilateral?

Americans can come here when they want on Visa on arrival. however Thais are requested to go thrugh a humiliating interogation to even get a tourist a visa to the US. and even after getting the visa you can still be refused entry by the passport controll with out any explenations.

the chances of a thai muslim to get a tourist visa to the us no matter if his filthy rich are zero.

that is bilateral?

American owned companies in Thailand issue a work permit for american staff with out any problems.and if they are a BOI approved they have special office that takes care of that for them in less then 3 hours.

The US has a quata for each segment of buisness and if it is over quata you cant get a work permit.

try and get a thai employee in to the US for a high tech company. the answer was try and apply next year.

thailand has its own restrictions as to land ownership and forign ownership and controlls, however american that would like to invest through the BOI or buisneses in manufactoring are granted tax benefits. full controll and full ownership.

the purpose of the treaty was to not to enable american or thais to open bars and resteraunts in each others teritory.

As usual, you try to confuse the issue. Thailand has a Treaty with the US. What part of how treaties work don't you understand? There is nothing in the treaty that requires approval by the BOI. An American who registers his business in Thailand is supposed to be protected by the treaty only the Ministry of Labor doesn't obligated to honor a treaty freely negotiated by the national government of Thailand. A Thai who opens a business in the US under provisions of the treaty is protected by national regulations that were enacted recognizing the extraordinary rights for Thais confered by the treaty. The EB-5 rules you quote are much different than E-2 rules. You try to make it appear that EB-5 rules apply to both categories. They do not. Further, there is no quota on E-2 visas nor is there a requirement on hiring a minimum number of Americans though it is expected that the business will at some point hire Americans. E2 visas entitles the holder to live in the US and work in his business as agreed in the treaty. It can also entitle a manager appointed by the owner who is of the same nationality as the owner to manage andwork in the business if the owner chooses to remian in his country of origin. Similar rules are supposed to exist in Thailand. Only problem is that in Thailand the Ministry of Labor doesn't honor the treaty.

From expertlaw.com:

"Substantial Investment There is no fixed amount of investment necessary to qualify for an E-2 visa, although as a general rule of thumb some immigration lawyers suggest that a minimum investment of $25,000 is necessary. The investment must amount to not less than fifty percent ownership in an enterprise that generates active income (as opposed to "passive income", such as that generated from rental property).

Ordinarily, the investment will be made by the E-2 applicant. There may, however, be circumstances in which an E-2 visa will be issued to an employee of a foreign company that qualifies as a treaty investor, provided the employee comes the United States in an executive or supervisory capacity to direct the enterprise or possess a specialized skill required by the enterprise.

Duration and Extension

An E-2 visa is issue for a two year period, and is renewable for an indefinite period as long as the visa holder continues in the same capacity with the business, and the business is actively engaged in trade or services.

Visa Eligibility for A Spouse and Minor Children

The spouse and unmarried minor children of an E-2 visa holder will also qualify for E-2 visas. These visas, however, will not automatically grant the spouse and children the right to work in the United States."

http://www.expertlaw.com/library/immigration/e2_visas.html

Edited May 30, 2007 by ChiangMaiAmerican

[richard10365]

It's so hard to resist bashing America when someone starts talking about how great the USA is. I will try to resist this time.

[brianwl]

It's so hard to resist bashing America when someone starts talking about how great the USA is. I will try to resist this time.

I'll only say that I am trying to figure out a way to move to Thailand. Just don't have the 800k in the bank, I've got the age though.