Just Back After Being Away For 4 Months

[ttthailand]

BEGBIE:

You answered your own question, as it has been said many a times in previous Topics and certainly in my responses : Pattaya is the fun sex City of Thailand it certainly is not the true Thai culture, and unfortunately Farangs have made it the place it is, its a haven for drugs and crime and that comment is not just directed at the Thais either.

I am sure many posters will agree with my comments : My comments are not meant to Downgrade Pattaya, but to assess Thailand from a visit Pattaya I think would be wrong. in the 3 years I have been in Thailand the only place where I fealt you needed to keep a sharp eye in certains areas was Pattaya.

I have lived in Thailand for 13 years, 7 of which were in Pattaya. Last year I saw so much crime, motorbike crazyness, nasty Thais and drunk farangs I said enough . I now stay in the Buriram area and I must say other then the family related problems life is great. Thai people here are just like I remember them 13 years ago. I normally pay the same as the Thais. They treat me, as I treat them, with respect. I see no crime and the traffic is only a few cows here and there. I must say however that I do miss the food in Pattaya. The girls and bars I have had enough of for a life time or two...

Camb. is great but I am not sure if it is time yet. Perhaps in the future.

[Neeranam]

I thought you were funny in Trainspotting, but Thais don't like aggressive behaviour.

[JR Texas]

BEGBIE:

You answered your own question, as it has been said many a times in previous Topics and certainly in my responses : Pattaya is the fun sex City of Thailand it certainly is not the true Thai culture, and unfortunately Farangs have made it the place it is, its a haven for drugs and crime and that comment is not just directed at the Thais either.

I am sure many posters will agree with my comments : My comments are not meant to Downgrade Pattaya, but to assess Thailand from a visit Pattaya I think would be wrong. in the 3 years I have been in Thailand the only place where I fealt you needed to keep a sharp eye in certains areas was Pattaya.

I have lived in Thailand for 13 years, 7 of which were in Pattaya. Last year I saw so much crime, motorbike crazyness, nasty Thais and drunk farangs I said enough . I now stay in the Buriram area and I must say other then the family related problems life is great. Thai people here are just like I remember them 13 years ago. I normally pay the same as the Thais. They treat me, as I treat them, with respect. I see no crime and the traffic is only a few cows here and there. I must say however that I do miss the food in Pattaya. The girls and bars I have had enough of for a life time or two...

Camb. is great but I am not sure if it is time yet. Perhaps in the future.

JR Texas to Ttthailand: Interesting.......I have been in Thailand (off and on) for about 20 years, six of which were in Pattaya-Jomtien. Thailand was, to me at least, an extremely easy and pleasurable place to live until around 1999.

Things starting changing rapidly around 1999-2000 (partly due to the government and partly due to the real estate hounds that encouraged every person on the planet to come to Thailand and falsely portrayed the place as a paradise). I think Thailand has been going downhill since then.

I have lived in many regions and places in Thailand. The worst Thais are, in my opinion, living and working in Pattaya-Jomtien (but one of my best friends is Thai and lives and works there and is a marvelous person). The worst farangs are also in Pattaya-Jomtien (but my best farang friends live there and are extremely nice people). So, I am generalizing here..........

Pattaya-Jomtien has really changed. Now it is polluted and overcrowded, has constant traffic jams, and is filled with the most unattractive girls in all of Thailand.

The positive side is that , if you can ignore the crap surrounding you, there are lots of things to do in the Pattaya-Jomtien area and you can find some foreign food. Most of the foreign food is, however, worse than terrible (probably related to the insane visa/business rules and regulations).

Now I live in Isan and the feel of the place is much like Thailand was in the past.....the people are, in my view, the best in Thailand.....the girls are, by far, the most beautiful.

[Beardog]

Maybe we are missing the most important point.

Obviously we all moved to Thailand or Cambo or Burma for a reason.Maybe we have forgot that where we are all from have the same problems & injustices & we came to live a new way of life . I live in Pattaya, & sure I am not blind to some of the racism present. Pattaya is disneyland & I doubt you could judge all Thailand on one city. Maybe 1999 was a better year, but In Maui Hawaii I could have bought land for half the price & could say it was better. When you look back in the rear view in life it's easy to say "ah those were the good old days" what about now? Why be a stick in the mud these are the Good New Days .

For every crap picture posted I can post a picture of someone that only makes 100-200 baht a day with a grin ear to ear cause even in dire straits they are glad to be alive& have family & some friends to share the joys of life as well as the sorrows.

Like Australia posted the muslims living there...This is Australia if you are not happy living here you are welcome to leave.That is the bottom line & probably the biggest difference that separates the westerners from the rest of the world . We have choices & can change our destiny with a jet ticket purchace!

I highly doubt any of our countries we haved live at are free from predijice.

And come to think about it I would venture to say I have gotten ripped off far worse in the US. compared to Thailand or any country I have been at & in all reality there is always more of the same wherever you are at in the world .

There are the kind hearted as well as the Jai Mai Dee.

Home is where you make it ---------------what are you & I bringing to the table is more the question.

And yes I would agree with Mikethevigoman ***SHAVED BUSH is also my favorite!!***

Edited May 31, 2007 by Beardog

[jeebusjones]

even in dire straits they are glad to be alive& have family & some friends to share the joys of life as well as the sorrows.

Very nicely put.

[Nebukanezar]

CAMBODIANS are more friendly than Thais????? Whoa were have you been staying at?? Last time I was there for several months I couldn't wait to get back to LoS. Cambo is nice if you like feeling big over a bunch of generally solemn, grim, somber people who have had the spirit beat out of them and their elite class murdered off. However if you want Sabai Sabai and Sanook!, plenty of smiles and a good bit more prosperity and infrastructure, LOS is were it's at!

And what is all this about some anti-farang sentiment??? really you guys getting paranoid or what??? 6 years in LoS and I never ever felt this.

JR Texas to Nebukanezar: Where did you get your impression of Cambodians? How long did you live there?

About four years ago I lived in Siem Riep (not too bad), PP (not too bad along the waterfront but too much poverty) and Sihanoukville (not too bad).

I found the majority of the people to be very nice, smart and less jaded than the majority of Thais. Along the Cambodian-Thai border I found the "solemn, grim, , somber" people you talked about.

Yes, in terms of prosperity and infrastructure, parts of Thailand are much better than Cambodia. But a lot of rural Thailand looks like Cambodia and people live the same way......same rice culture and hand-to-mouth existence.

Cambodia was pleasant change to Thailand.........especially Sihanoukville. But I did start to get bored and missed little things like Starbucks and Malls, etc.

It was not the people that troubled me (lots of beautiful and smart girls), it was the lack of infrastructure, poverty and boredom.

I was there for 3 months and I was in PP and Shanoukville. The pepole by and large are just not as happy as the Thais. They don't seem to even dream like them, very very close to the earth and simple. Ofcourse many rural Thais are similiar however, you find that they atleast have a certain pride, in King and Country. Cambodians don't even have that , it's like they have nothing and they know it....and over all they just seem to place less value on their lives than a Thai.

I don't blame them by the way, Euro trash colonization and Pole Pot can do that a country.

It's not so bad that I wouldn't go back, but not as good as my beloved Thailand IMHO.

[jeebusjones]

I don't blame them by the way, Euro trash colonization and Pole Pot can do that a country.

Ameri-trash played a role there too, by the way. Or did you miss that part of your "Vietnam War" education?

[terry57]

mate, ive just arrived back in los after 5 months away.

been here a week and the places i hangout and the thais are still smiling like there is no tomorrow.

how about going to some other places besides pattaya as that is going to give you the heeby jebbies at any time.

you made a blanket statement about the whole bloody country and what alot of bollicks it is.

thank you very much

terence

[LesNorton]

Maybe its just you that the Thai don't like, as i have never had that feeling

[belden]

On my very first trip to Asia, I visited Thailand and Cambodia. I had read up, and was very excited to go and experience the famous Thai smile, and the friendly people there. I must say, that at first I was a bit dissappointed with the famed Thai hospitality on my 1st trip. Especially the 1st days, which I had spend in BKK. Taxi/tuk tuk drivers, vendors, even the hotelstaff weren't all that friendly, if not trying to rip you of to some degree. What a change it was when I traveled to Cambodia after a few days, all smiles, everyone very helpfull, and most importantly, it felt genuine. I was thinking by myself, that "The Land of Smiles" might have been more appropriately used for Cambodia then Thailand.

A few notes though. Bangkok is a huge metropolitan city, with a big tourist industry. This will attract all sorts of things and people; the good, and the bad. No difference with most big tourist destinations anywhere in the world. To compare it with Siem Reap, where I went to in Cambo, is not fair. I think Siem Reap has a somewhat priviliged position due to the temples and the kind of tourists it attracts, a comparison with Pnom Penh would have been better. When I broke away from the tourist path on my next trips, I did find that famous Thai smile to be more prevalant, and have not felt particularly unwelcome once.

On the flip side, I can assure you that my fiancee already feels more unwelcome in my neck of the woods then I have ever felt in Thailand. And that without even having visited...... For all of you complaining about the new visa laws in Thailand. Think a minute about all the visa horrorstories, and the hassle you have to go through at times in most western countries to obtain a visa. I still haven't come up with satisfying answer when my fiancee complains about this, while "we" can just hop on a plane and visit Thailand.

Edited May 31, 2007 by belden

[besth]

A traveller walking on a dusty road stops to ask a farmer

"How will the people on the next village treat me?"

"How did you find the people of the village you just left?" asks the farmer.

"Wonderful, kind and generous people"

"The people in the next village are just like them, you will enjoy your stay amongst them" replies the farmer

A few days later another traveller stops by the farmer and asks him the same question

"How did you find the people of the village you just left?" asks the farmer again.

"They were sad, mean and miserable"

"I´m afraid that unfortunately you will find them to be like that too in your next stop" is the reply.

I can't remember the author of this little story, but for some reason it has come to mind reading this thread.

[Nebukanezar]

I don't blame them by the way, Euro trash colonization and Pole Pot can do that a country.

Ameri-trash played a role there too, by the way. Or did you miss that part of your "Vietnam War" education?

Of course, America chased viet cong back in to Cambodia with bombs for a couple years. Big difference between killing people your enemy hides behind and subjugation. Anyway, that being said Thailand is a hel_l of allot better off having been able to stave off such a vile and humiliating fate as colonization. They truly have something to be proud of, and you can see it on one level or another, in just about all of her people.

Cambodians tend too noticeably lack this sense of pride and self worth.

[Begbie]

Yes, in terms of prosperity and infrastructure, parts of Thailand are much better than Cambodia. But a lot of rural Thailand looks like Cambodia and people live the same way......same rice culture and hand-to-mouth existence.

Cambodia was pleasant change to Thailand.........especially Sihanoukville. But I did start to get bored and missed little things like Starbucks and Malls, etc.

It was not the people that troubled me (lots of beautiful and smart girls), it was the lack of infrastructure, poverty and boredom.

This is changing. Cambodia is developing rapidly. Especially Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and Siem Reap. There is a lot of foreign money pouring into the place.

[ozzydom]

Yes, in terms of prosperity and infrastructure, parts of Thailand are much better than Cambodia. But a lot of rural Thailand looks like Cambodia and people live the same way......same rice culture and hand-to-mouth existence.

Cambodia was pleasant change to Thailand.........especially Sihanoukville. But I did start to get bored and missed little things like Starbucks and Malls, etc.

It was not the people that troubled me (lots of beautiful and smart girls), it was the lack of infrastructure, poverty and boredom.

This is changing. Cambodia is developing rapidly. Especially Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and Siem Reap. There is a lot of foreign money pouring into the place.

SSSSH, dont tell em to much begbie,they will all wanna go.

All aboard the next motodop to the chicken farm

[JR Texas]

Yes, in terms of prosperity and infrastructure, parts of Thailand are much better than Cambodia. But a lot of rural Thailand looks like Cambodia and people live the same way......same rice culture and hand-to-mouth existence.

Cambodia was pleasant change to Thailand.........especially Sihanoukville. But I did start to get bored and missed little things like Starbucks and Malls, etc.

It was not the people that troubled me (lots of beautiful and smart girls), it was the lack of infrastructure, poverty and boredom.

This is changing. Cambodia is developing rapidly. Especially Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and Siem Reap. There is a lot of foreign money pouring into the place.

SSSSH, dont tell em to much begbie,they will all wanna go.

All aboard the next motodop to the chicken farm

JR Texas: Please......no SSSSSSSHHH.......I want to know all about Phnom Penh, Sihanoukville and Siem Reap. I have not been there is a few years.

I was having dinner with a Thai professor/dean the other night and he told me that "Cambodia is really improving.......the problem is infrastructure..........Sihanoukville could become the next Phuket."

He also said, "Cambodian students are much better than Thai students and hungry to make their lives and country better." He, a Thai professor/dean, told me that Thais are "lazy." I am saying this because far too many people think that only farangs think this.......not true, even Thai intellectuals think this.

To Nebekunezar who said "Cambodians tend to lack a sense of pride and self worth." Maybe they do not have the false pride and inflated self worth that characterizes the majority of Thais. But many do have enough pride to want to make things better and enough self-worth to think that they can with some assistance from the outside world.

My impression was they were hungry for knowledge.......hungry for a better life.......and willing to do what it takes to make things better for themselves and their country. The main problem is Cambodia is similar to the main problem in Thailand: corruption within the corporate-political-military triangle of power. Another problem is energy imported from Thailand at a big expense to the Cambodian economy.

To Belden: Many of the complaints are about expats living and investing in Thailand, and not just about visiting Thailand. The visa bar continues to be raised and far too many good and decent expats are being shoved out the door by stupid and senseless visa rules.........coupled with stupid and senseless business rules that are preventing small scale investment (and now hurting large scale investment as well).

[Flysiam]

What a coincidence! I know all of them.

the first man with white t-shirt, he found my phone in the toilet and gave it back to me

the second one in yellow shirt, I dropped my wallet and was given back to me

the tuk tuk driver, he helped me fought off a few thai guys last time when I was having a fight in Patpong...

and the last one, she said she would give me a discount 500 baht coz I am a farang....

Haha yeah right

[Nebukanezar]

I don't blame them by the way, Euro trash colonization and Pole Pot can do that a country.

Ameri-trash played a role there too, by the way. Or did you miss that part of your "Vietnam War" education?

Of course, America chased viet cong back in to Cambodia with bombs for a couple years. Big difference between killing people your enemy hides behind and subjugation. Anyway, that being said Thailand is a hel_l of allot better off having been able to stave off such a vile and humiliating fate as colonization. They truly have something to be proud of, and you can see it on one level or another, in just about all of her people.

Cambodians tend too noticeably lack this sense of pride and self worth.

The Americans fully backed the unpopular Lon Nol regime that led the way to civil war in Cambodia as well as conducting and backing attacks within Cambodian borders since 1957.

The Americans have to bear responsibility with their covert war against Communism in the region, their financial backing of an unpopular puppet regime and allowing their war against the North Viet Namese to spill over into Cambodia all leading to the eventual rise to power of the Khmer Rouge.

Of course, their meddling has been also quite evident in Thailand since the end of WWII. One of the main reasons Thailand still retained a Monarchy post WWII was down to American influence in their quest not to allow Communism a foothold in the country.

As an American (which I presume you are), the last place you should be is on your high horse regarding colonisation and meddling in the region.

If your vision is so limited that you can't see the difference between meddeling and colonization than perhaps you need a high horse. Giving money to pepole who arn't communist (and not Khemer Rouge), and promoting the Thai monarchy is not even on the same playing feild as Overthrowing the soverignty of a nation, occupying it, and setting up rulers from your nation.

Closest thing we have done to that effect is Iraq and even then it's still not a colony. But anyway the days of colonies are past and the perpetratiors now are slowly feeling the effects of the pendulum of fate as the citiznes of their former colonies now flood the nations of the scum who oppressed them.

Anyway, Cambo is harsh, Thailand is better in many ways it all depends on what your looking for. I just happen to prefer Thailand and its pepole over kampuchea.