The Constitutional Tribunal Disbands Thai Rak Thai - Election cheating

[ColPyat]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30036172

Tribunal threatens jail term against critics

The Constitution Tribunal would not tolerate "non-academic" criticism over its rulings of the dissolution cases of the Thai Rak Thai Party and the Democrat Party, tribunal secretary-general Paiboon Warahapaitoon said Wednesday. He warned those insulting the judges would be put in jail.

The comments based on academic purposes were welcome not only among the tribunal's cases but also other courts, he said.

If the criticism was a type of allegations or using abusive words, however, the persons would be regarded for ruining the national stability because the tribunal judges were state officials, Paiboon said.

Any insult on them would receive tougher punishment than on the ordinary people, he said, adding the police were collecting evidence related to those insulting the tribunal.

The punishment term could be serving seven years in prison.

The Nation

[ColPyat]

But no, we don't have any sort of intimidation happening in this country...

[farangsay]

Tribunal threatens jail term against criticsJune 6, 2007 : Last updated 05:46 pm (Thai local time)

The Constitution Tribunal would not tolerate "non-academic" criticism over its rulings of the dissolution cases of the Thai Rak Thai Party and the Democrat Party, tribunal secretary-general Paiboon Warahapaitoon said Wednesday. He warned those insulting the judges would be put in jail.

The comments based on academic purposes were welcome not only among the tribunal's cases but also other courts, he said.

If the criticism was a type of allegations or using abusive words, however, the persons would be regarded for ruining the national stability because the tribunal judges were state officials, Paiboon said.

Any insult on them would receive tougher punishment than on the ordinary people, he said, adding the police were collecting evidence related to those insulting the tribunal.

The punishment term could be serving seven years in prison.

The Nation

all animals are equal , some more so than others ..........................................

I would criticise the Nation on this (in an academic way) , because this just has to be an appallingly bad translation.

I would criticise Paiboon Warahapaitoon (in an nonacademic way) because , even allowing for a bad translation , he seems to be a total <deleted> who seems not to understand the function of a legal system.

[Jai Dee]

Constitutional Court pondering whether to sue parties for defamation

The Constitutional Court is reviewing criticism against it in order to decide whether to decide whether to sue for defamation.

The Secretary General of the Office of the Constitutional Court Paiboon Walahapaitoon (ไพบูลย์ วราหะไพฑูรย์ ) admitted that analytical and constructive criticism directed against the Constitutional Court are permissible due to their beneficial nature. Mr. Paiboon cautioned, however, that if criticism were inflammatory, provocative, and caused damage to persons involved, then the Constitutional Court invoke article 198 of Criminal Law to sue parties responsible for these offenses.

The secretary general said that parties convicted of defamation against the Constitutional Court face 1-7 years imprisonment or a fine from 2000-14000 baht, or both. Mr. Paiboon reflected that the Constitutional Court has so far faced a quantity of inflammatory criticism, but has yet to levy criminal charges against responsible parties.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 June 2007

[jbsears]

How can you outlaw criticism of government officials. Isn't it the people's duty to criticize its representatives in government? Oh yeah I forgot, this government doesn't represent the people, it represents the junta.

[Tony Clifton]

But no, we don't have any sort of intimidation happening in this country...

I think you 'll find more contempt of court than intimidation.

[tettyan]

The Secretary General of the Office of the Constitutional Court Paiboon Walahapaitoon (ไพบูลย์ วราหะไพฑูรย์ ) admitted that analytical and constructive criticism directed against the Constitutional Court are permissible due to their beneficial nature. Mr. Paiboon cautioned, however, that if criticism were inflammatory, provocative, and caused damage to persons involved, then the Constitutional Court invoke article 198 of Criminal Law to sue parties responsible for these offenses.

This is highly disturbing. Where do you draw the line between "beneficial" and "inflammatory" criticism?

Imagine if the US Supreme Court sent people to jail for criticizing controversial decisions, like Roe v. Wade (recognizing a constitutional right to an abortion, or Bush v. Gore (the 2000 election case).

But then again, most civilized countries don't even recognized criminal libel any more. The Court is threatening to resort to the same cheap tricks that Thaksin used. What a bunch of hypocrites.

Unless there are specific threats against individual members of the court, I cannot imagine any justification for sending anyone to jail.

[Jai Dee]

Head of TRT urges government to draw up amendment of 15th CDR

The Thai Rak Thai (TRT) leading member, Mr. Chaturon Chaisang, pressures the interim government to make more amendments on the Act concerning the Council for Democratic Reform’s (CDR) 15th announcement.

Mr. Chaturon, the former acting leader of the disbanded TRT party, demands the government to draw up the legislation amendment to the CDR’s 15th announcement to enable the registration of new political parties instead of let alone the current parties eligible for the election. He claims the military means to clear the way for the previous opposite to set up the government. However, the TRT is willing to register under the same title and believes it can be compete in the general election during the scheduled timeframe.

The head of TRT group indicates the attempts to break up the TRT Party, to clean up the old political authority.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

RTP ready to ensure security nationwide once announcement 15th is lifted

The Royal Thai Police (RTP) is all geared up in ensuring security nationwide after the 15th announcement of the Council for National Security (CNS) is lifted.

RTP Commissioner General Pol Gen Seripisuth Themeyawes (เสรีพิศุทธ์ เตมียาเวส) says the RTP has evaluated situation to lay out security measures right after the Cabinet’s announcement to lift the ban. In addition, he says policemen are ready to support the Election Commission (EC) to arrange general election.

At the same time, Pol Gen Seripisuth has assigned suppression division to observe gunmen’s movements.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 June 2007

[Jai Dee]

Draft Act for lifting the 15th CNS announcement should be completed within two weeks

The Cabinet has assigned the Council of State to complete a draft Act to lift the 15th announcement of the Council for National Security (CNS) within two weeks. The draft Act will be proposed to the National Legislative Assembly (NLA) for consideration.

A NLA member, Mr. Prapun Kunmee (ประพันธ์ คูณมี) said the majority of NLA members agrees with the government to revoke the 15th CNS announcement, allowing political parties to run their political activities and set up new party.

The new Constitution is nearly completed; therefore, political parties should prepare for new general election.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 June 2007

[Plus]

Not wishing to exacerbate the argument, quite the reverse, but the quotation was sourced, not unreasonably from Respectfully Quoted which many would view as reasonably authoritative.

My answer was directed at the secondary poster who used the extension of this quote to prove his often shown disregard for Democracy in itself and support for dictatorial forms of government as something that is even worth thinking about.

WOW!

All I did was to give an alternative quotation referenced on the same wikipedia page.

http://www.bartleby.com/73/425.html

Both variations are damning testament to populism. Don't like it - take it up with Tyler, not me.

[John K]

Head of TRT urges government to draw up amendment of 15th CDR

The Thai Rak Thai (TRT) leading member, Mr. Chaturon Chaisang, pressures the interim government to make more amendments on the Act concerning the Council for Democratic Reform’s (CDR) 15th announcement.

Mr. Chaturon, the former acting leader of the disbanded TRT party, demands the government to draw up the legislation amendment to the CDR’s 15th announcement to enable the registration of new political parties instead of let alone the current parties eligible for the election. He claims the military means to clear the way for the previous opposite to set up the government. However, the TRT is willing to register under the same title and believes it can be compete in the general election during the scheduled timeframe.

The head of TRT group indicates the attempts to break up the TRT Party, to clean up the old political authority.

Source: Thai National News Bureau Public Relations Department - 06 June 2007

Correct me if I am wrong but is this not some of political activity when it is a group? As an individual I am sure he could request this through whoever represents him. He should not be speaking in the plural.

[ColPyat]

Both variations are damning testament to populism. Don't like it - take it up with Tyler, not me.

Actually, i can't take it up with the man, as these quotes cannot be attributed to him. As i have proven to you.

If you can't accept that you have put your foot in your mouth again, at least I think you should let the issue go now, so we can go on with the thread, and not discuss your funny views on democracy.

[Mid]

Correct me if I am wrong but is this not some of political activity when it is a group?

You know, if

one person, just one person does it they may think he's really sick and

they won't take him. And if two people, two people do it, in harmony,

they may think they're both faggots and they won't take either of them.

And three people do it, three, can you imagine, three people walking in

singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and walking out. They may think it's an

organization. And can you, can you imagine fifty people a day,I said

fifty people a day walking in singin a bar of Alice's Restaurant and

walking out. And friends they may thinks it's a movement.

Alice's Restaurant

By Arlo Guthrie

sorry , I'll get my coat .............

[John K]

CNS tries to eradicate us: Chaturon

Thai Rak Thai group leader Chaturon Chaisang attacked the Council for National Security (CNS) for deliberately slowing the process to allow party registration.

"It was a deliberate tactic to delay the process in order to eradicate and destroy those who oppose the CNS, especially those who used to be Thai Rak Thai Party members,'' Chaturon said.

He was commenting after the Cabinet suspended the ban on political-party activity, but has asked the Council of State to study whether it can lift the ban on party registration.

There is a possibility of a delay as Surayud said the government has to forward the matter for National Legislative Assembly to amend the concerned regulations.

Asked about the report that some Thai Rak Thai group members are being headhunted to join other parties, Chaturon said none of his group had decided to defect from the Thai Rak Thai.

"We hope the Thai Rak Thai supporters will help convince them not to leave the group. The people want to see our return," he said.

Asked about the group calling itself the Pro-Thaksin Anti-Dictatorship Group comprising 20 members, most from the northeastern provinces, Chaturon said this group had been formed in a bid to bring the Thai Rak Thai together and establish a party later.

Thai Rak Thai group member Kuthep Saikrachang said he suspected there was a movement to exterminate the Thai Rak Thai because his group is banned from registering as a party.

"We will continue our attack against the unjustified ban. I could not believe they have such a complicated plan in place to destroy us," he said.

The Nation

Does anyone have a can of Raid handy?

[Plus]

Both variations are damning testament to populism. Don't like it - take it up with Tyler, not me.

Actually, i can't take it up with the man, as these quotes cannot be attributed to him... you have put your foot in your mouth again,

Take it up with Bartleby then. Ask them to remove this quote or whatever.

You are simply searching for pretext to attack me personally.

[ColPyat]

And today's Thai Rath has a rather disgusting event on its front page. Appearantly yesterday a junta supporter disliked a PTV supporter's views about the junta, and has thrown a bagful of feces at the PTV supporter.

[jdinasia]

Both variations are damning testament to populism. Don't like it - take it up with Tyler, not me.

Actually, i can't take it up with the man, as these quotes cannot be attributed to him... you have put your foot in your mouth again,

Take it up with Bartleby then. Ask them to remove this quote or whatever.

You are simply searching for pretext to attack me personally.

ya think?

[John K]

From the Thaksin passport thread.

The exiled former premier has given several interviews to foreign media after the verdict was handed down last Wednesday. However, Noppadon said Thaksin decided to temporarily stop giving interviews to both Thai and foreign media as he does not want to be accused of engaging in political movement after the verdict.

Do you think that perhaps the now banned politicians could take a hint from their leader? Attending the rallies is one thing, but to speak is another.

I suspect this will go someplace in a few days.

Edited June 6, 2007 by John K

[Plus]

Maybe TRT execs, unlike Thaksin, don't have the luxury of sitting out and biding their time - they need to act now, they don't have local support base to fall back on as constituency MPs do.

There must be something like 300 TRT constituency MPs and if party execs don't establish control over them now, someone else will.

If they lose them, then without Thaksin's war chest, wrestling control of MPs from their new bosses will be extremely difficult.

[sriracha john]

The Secretary General of the Office of the Constitutional Court Paiboon Walahapaitoon (ไพบูลย์ วราหะไพฑูรย์ ) admitted that analytical and constructive criticism directed against the Constitutional Court are permissible due to their beneficial nature. Mr. Paiboon cautioned, however, that if criticism were inflammatory, provocative, and caused damage to persons involved, then the Constitutional Court invoke article 198 of Criminal Law to sue parties responsible for these offenses.

This is highly disturbing. Where do you draw the line between "beneficial" and "inflammatory" criticism?

Imagine if the US Supreme Court sent...................................

How many years have these rules been applied to the courts in THAILAND?....9? 12? 20? 40? Longer?

If it's their judicial system, who gives a rat's ass what the the US Supreme Court would/could/should do?

Does anyone know of any cases where anyone, still living, criticized a court decision and wasn't prosecuted or at least charged?

[jdinasia]

The Secretary General of the Office of the Constitutional Court Paiboon Walahapaitoon (??????? ???????????? ) admitted that analytical and constructive criticism directed against the Constitutional Court are permissible due to their beneficial nature. Mr. Paiboon cautioned, however, that if criticism were inflammatory, provocative, and caused damage to persons involved, then the Constitutional Court invoke article 198 of Criminal Law to sue parties responsible for these offenses.

This is highly disturbing. Where do you draw the line between "beneficial" and "inflammatory" criticism?

Imagine if the US Supreme Court sent...................................

How many years have these rules been applied to the courts in THAILAND?....9? 12? 20? 40? Longer?

If it's their judicial system, who gives a rat's ass what the the US Supreme Court would/could/should do?

Does anyone know of any cases where anyone, still living, criticized a court decision and wasn't prosecuted or at least charged?

some but none where people said the court was bought ... or didn't apply the law ... or the courts mind was made up ahead of time by those in power that didn't get charged!

academics have spoken out about court decisions often .... but that is far different than than the accusations flying around now.

[Plus]

One of Thaksin's lawyers recently pleaded guilty to defaming the court, I think it was Consitution Court, after jailing former EC members.

They must have rules for what is considered defamation and what is not, they've been dealing with this for years.

[Mid]

Group 'aims to topple junta'Thu, June 7, 2007 : Last updated 0:10 am (Thai local time)

60 ex-TRT MPs in new body, as 22 anti-coup groups meet, vow to do the same

A wide spectrum of political groups, including more than 60 ex-MPs from the defunct Thai Rak Thai Party yesterday formed the "Democratic Alliance Against Dictatorship", which hopes to provoke a mass uprising to topple the ruling junta.

The group, which includes former TRT MPs but claims to have no link with deposed prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, joined a People's Television (PTV) rally at Sanam Luang and vowed to protest until the junta is overthrown.

Meanwhile, representatives of 22 anti-coup groups held a five-hour meeting at Thamma-sat University yesterday and formed an alliance to oust the junta.

"The economy and democracy in this country are in the Dark Ages. Moreover, the military intends to extend its rule," former TRT MP Nisit Sinthuprai claimed in a press conference

and their off ..........................

[samran]

the trough is over here little piggies.

[sukanyacondo]

OINK OINK OINK OINK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[A_Traveller]

Both variations are damning testament to populism. Don't like it - take it up with Tyler, not me.

Actually, i can't take it up with the man, as these quotes cannot be attributed to him... you have put your foot in your mouth again,

Take it up with Bartleby then. Ask them to remove this quote or whatever.

You are simply searching for pretext to attack me personally.

ya think?

Let us all be clear here, the quote made by Plus is a verbatim quote from Tyler's book as I showed in post 742. The quote made by Hammered however, would appear to be incorrectly attributed, though it did not form part of the sub-thread.

I have to say I am disappointed that a poster would, according to their own reply, review my post and then continue to present their position as valid despite it having been disproved. No doubt some will say this is a minor thing or not relevant, but I disagree, ultimately one can only adjudge 'arguments' on the basis of the accuracy of any poster, their congruent willingness to accept factual input, and to thereby reflect same.

To be charitible I would have said that is an error, this having been my assumption on the basis of the inaccurate reply to my post, except I note above the repeat rebuttal claim that [these quotes cannot be attributed to Tyler] which cannot, as I have shown, be substantiated.

Regards

[ColPyat]

I have to say I am disappointed that a poster would, according to their own reply, review my post and then continue to present their position as valid despite it having been disproved. No doubt some will say this is a minor thing or not relevant, but I disagree, ultimately one can only adjudge 'arguments' on the basis of the accuracy of any poster, their congruent willingness to accept factual input, and to thereby reflect same.

To cut the whole thing short, my deepest and sincerest apologies to Plus for having accused him falsely of misquoting.

He indeed did truly apply an attributable quote from that scholar to show his disregard for modern democracy.

Happy now?

Edited June 6, 2007 by ColPyat

[johna]

well if nothing else these demonstrations give a lot of poor people the opportunity to earn a little extra cash

[sriracha john]

How can we pardon unrepentant politicians?

I was anxiously waiting for somebody to come up with a requiem - a graveside eulogy of sorts - for the 111 executives of the Thai Rak Thai Party after the Constitution Tribunal passed a verdict last Wednesday to dissolve the party and bar its top executives from political activities for five years.

None came. And, surprisingly, nobody was surprised.

And when none of the banned politicians even tried to express regret over the unprecedented incriminating verdict, nobody was very shocked either.

It certainly speaks volumes about the state of Thai politics when you don't hear people - even the staunchest supporters of those found guilty - scream "This is a huge loss for the country", or "There goes the country's most admirable group of politicians", when, all of a sudden, over 100 of the country's best-known politicians are swept from the scene.

It takes some real hard work to appreciate this enlightening social phenomenon. It helps you to understand why very few people consider the loss of this group of politicians a great misfortune.

The telltale, blow-by-blow account of the verdict detailing how two senior Thai Rak Thai executives - General Thamarak Isarangura and Pongsak Ruktapongpisal - committed electoral fraud is perhaps the most sensational eye-opener for most Thais.

The tribunal wrote in graphic detail about how these executives - both very close to then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra - bribed two small parties to contest the April 2 elections last year to circumvent a requirement that a candidate standing unchallenged in a constituency must receive at least 20 per cent of the eligible votes to win a seat. Thai Rak Thai wanted to be seen to be "challenged" by another party. But the tribunal ruled that in effect it boiled down to this: Thai Rak Thai was fielding two candidates in one constituency, which is a blatant violation of the law.

You have to read the verdict paragraph by paragraph to understand how dirty tricks and money were deployed to cheat in the election. You have to see through the machinations and tricks unveiled by the highly professional investigation conducted by this nine-member panel of judges to realise why Thaksin and his cronies had always been certain about the number of seats they were sure to win in certain constituencies.

Now you know what they meant when they said: "We can fix anything." They were even prepared to alter a political party's membership registration to make sure that an unqualified candidate met the required standard. Before this highly revealing ruling was handed down last week, scandalous stories of this nature had always been considered wild, unfounded rumours hurled by a losing candidate against a party that had won big. Now we know it's a game they had always played. The only regret they seem to have is that they got caught red-handed this time.

The Thai Rak Thai executives don't seem to realise, however, that this isn't just another "unfortunate episode" that will soon be forgotten by most Thais. The tribunal put their stern judgement down in writing this time: "Thai Rak Thai Party's offences undermined the constitutional monarchy and threatened national security."

In another part of the verdict, the judges ruled for the first time in legal history that "unconstitutional means of seizing political power", as stipulated in the charter, shouldn't only mean a military takeover. Any attempt to seek power through fraudulent means - and that includes Thai Rak Thai's fraud in the last election - must also be considered "unconstitutional".

Hence, the sharp, damningly harsh wording in the ruling: "The acts by the Thai Rak Thai Party are considered extremely dangerous to the country. The party existed not for the wellbeing of the people but to strive for political power."

But then hardly had the ink on which the verdict was written dried when coup-leader General Sonthi Boonyaratglin raised the possibility of granting amnesty to all 111 Thai Rak Thai executives. His reason for making such a hasty proposal? He said it's for "national reconciliation".

Perhaps, it's a "pacification programme" between him and the Thai Rak Thai Party's leaders. But for a nation only treated to a hard dose of truth about political fraud of the highest level less than 48 hours earlier, Sonthi's sudden "let's-forgive-the-swindlers" move smacks too much of political expediency.

After all, how can you pardon someone who hasn't owned up to his guilt?

- The Nation's Suthaichai Yoon in Thai Talk