Saawaadee From Singapore

[rongx]

Hi guys. greetings from Singapore. have been reading the forum daily at work for past 3 weeks, but am a bit disappointed at the available information for beginners. Sure there are alot of usefull quotes that i've picked up, non mai im, mai hen naa naan mae-laew, tuuk yarng, tuuk krang. but i can't even form sentences together, thus have registered to point this out.

for example i want to say basic stuff like and, every, after, then, maybe. stuff you would use in everyday/hour/min sentences when conversing. And also anyone can clarify on how the sentences are formed, for eg, english, i want to eat. but japanese it's eat i want to (smth like that) how are the placements for nouns, etc in a typical thai sentence. any info would be greatly appreciated. and hoping many pros can help contribute. Cos was actually looking at the one word a day thread when suddenly, it stopped at being a word a day till last week.

khup toon kup for your time.

[soundman]

Hi guys. greetings from Singapore. have been reading the forum daily at work for past 3 weeks, but am a bit disappointed at the available information for beginners. Sure there are alot of usefull quotes that i've picked up, non mai im, mai hen naa naan mae-laew, tuuk yarng, tuuk krang. but i can't even form sentences together, thus have registered to point this out.

for example i want to say basic stuff like and, every, after, then, maybe. stuff you would use in everyday/hour/min sentences when conversing. And also anyone can clarify on how the sentences are formed, for eg, english, i want to eat. but japanese it's eat i want to (smth like that) how are the placements for nouns, etc in a typical thai sentence. any info would be greatly appreciated. and hoping many pros can help contribute. Cos was actually looking at the one word a day thread when suddenly, it stopped at being a word a day till last week.

khup toon kup for your time.

Welcome to the forum rongx.

List some phrases you may wish to learn & I'm sure some forum members will gladly donate their time & translate them for you with pointers on how to get the pronunciation correct.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[meadish_sweetball]

Let me join soundman in welcoming you to the forum rongx.

To clarify, this forum is entirely comprised of volunteers, and nobody is paid for providing any help here.

For an excellent easy-to-read summary of the grammar of basic Thai, I also recommend buying 'Thai - an essential grammar' by David Smyth.

[JaiRawnNitNoi]

Hi Rongx,

I too am relatively new to the board. As a new learner, let me echo Meadish's comment to pick up a copy of Thai - An Essential Grammar (ISBN 0-415-22614-7). Then get down to the bookstore and pick up one of the instructional CD-book Thai sets (e.g. Smith or Becker's) and get to work. Then get over to the basement of Golden Mile plaza for some of the most authentic Thai cuisine in town. Of course, if you are a bit naughty (ทะลื่ง) you can head over to Orchard Towers in the evening and chat up some native Thai speakers. The self study will at least give you enough grounding in the language that you can come to the experts on this forum (I am definitely not one of them) and begin to ask questions. We are all interested in the language or we wouldn't be here. No question is too basic, but some are so broad that there is no way to address them in e-mail format.

Good luck (โฉคดี)

PS. You might want to try to enable the Thai character set on your PC as you get more interested in the language. It will really clarify communications on this board.

Edited June 1, 2007 by JaiRawnNitNoi

[rongx]

great to see some response.

ok lets start with basic sentences like...

1) i'll have to go home and eat first, after that i'll think about it/see how.

2) i don't want to, i rather/prefer chilling out/hanging ard. lazy to walk some more (shopping etc you know them ladies)

or can we start a standard conversation and everyone contributes in written thai? cos dont think everyone can read thai script.. like i'll start when i head in the office, and then i'll bitch about politics etc. or something like that. then it'll be easier to manipulate words accordingly, rather than if i remember all the sentences, i can't use the words individually to form other sentences (or maybe i'm just a slow learner). hmm what are your thoughts, anyone?

[soundman]

great to see some response.

ok lets start with basic sentences like...

1) i'll have to go home and eat first, after that i'll think about it/see how.

2) i don't want to, i rather/prefer chilling out/hanging ard. lazy to walk some more (shopping etc you know them ladies)

or can we start a standard conversation and everyone contributes in written thai? cos dont think everyone can read thai script.. like i'll start when i head in the office, and then i'll bitch about politics etc. or something like that. then it'll be easier to manipulate words accordingly, rather than if i remember all the sentences, i can't use the words individually to form other sentences (or maybe i'm just a slow learner). hmm what are your thoughts, anyone?

I'll tackle No. 1 first.

ผมจะกลับบ้านไปกินข้าวก่อน แล้ว จะคิดดูอีกที ......

pom ja glup bahn bpai gin kao gorn lairo ja kit doo eek tee ....

I am goining to go home and eat and think about .....

Cheers,

Soundman.

[meadish_sweetball]

1) (Free translation, because literal would not sound natural)

ผมจะกลับบ้านกินข้าวก่อนนะ แล้วค่อยว่ากันใหม่ phom ja klab baan kin khaao kawn na, laeo khoy waa kan mai I will go home and eat first, then we'll see/be in touch.

2) Your second sentence is not too clear... But here are a few phrases:

ไม่อยาก ทำ mai yaak tham = I don't want to do it.

ไม่อยากไป mai yaak bpai = I don't want to go.

ไม่อยาก + other verb mai yaak + other verb = I don't want to +other verb

ขี้เกียจซื้อของอีก khii kiad sue khawng iik = I'm too lazy for more shopping

ไม่ไว้แล้ว mai wai laeo = I am all beat / I can't be bothered anymore (usually indicates some frustration/end of physical strength)

(Soundman's example works too for number one.)

[rongx]

hmm ok. for Soundmans's example,

pom ja glup bahn bpai gin kao gorn lairo ja kit doo eek tee ....

i _______ home go eat _________________________

wats the rest of the words mean individually?

and meadish, i presume tham = do? and mai yaak is dont want to.

thai really isn't easy at all.

[soundman]

hmm ok. for Soundmans's example,

pom ja glup bahn bpai gin kao gorn lairo ja kit doo eek tee ....

i _______ home go eat _________________________

wats the rest of the words mean individually?

and meadish, i presume tham = do? and mai yaak is dont want to.

thai really isn't easy at all.

As you may have allready presumed - Thai language rarely translates word for word into English.

Don't be discouraged after a little practice you're brain just starts to function a little differently when speaking (thinking) thai.

I am terrible with languages, & have to practice much harder than most people to remeber words, sentence structures etc. If I can learn anybody can.....

Also a word of warning - I am no teacher & have never taken classes or read any books on thai by English authors - so some of my explanations might be a little off or not make sense.

pom ja glup bahn bpai gin kao gorn lairo ja kit doo eek tee ....

pom (dee chun) - I - (dee chun) usually used by females.

ja - future tense indicator

glup bahn - return home

bpai - to go

gin kao - eat

gorn - before

lairo - and then

kit doo - to think (about)

eek tee - some more (not real sure about this being the best tranliteration)

Hope this is some help.

Soundman.

[rongx]

wow. thanks alot. it looks alot simpler after breaking up. i didnt know ja is a future tense indicator. then how about a present or past? na ka? i usually thought they said it to sound 'cute'. haha.

[soundman]

wow. thanks alot. it looks alot simpler after breaking up. i didnt know ja is a future tense indicator. then how about a present or past? na ka? i usually thought they said it to sound 'cute'. haha.

The past ... There are a few threads recently on this... To me it appears that talking about the past in Thai is reasonably complicated, however here are some examples...

เมื่อก่อน - meuah gorn - before - I went shopping "before".

เคยทำแล้ว - koey tum lairo - (I) did it before - "koey" is used in answering a question such as "Did you make a cake? - "koey tum lairo"

Don't know why I brought that example up (เคย), I'm getting a headache trying to explain it. Maybe some of the forums more experienced Thai language speakers might like to give explaining เคย a shot.

Cheers & thanx,

Soundman.

[JaiRawnNitNoi]

Don't know why I brought that example up (เคย), I'm getting a headache trying to explain it. Maybe some of the forums more experienced Thai language speakers might like to give explaining เคย a shot.

I am no expert, but I've got a nice library! Kuey (เคย) roughly translates as "ever' or "used to"and is placed before the verb in the sentence.

phom mai kuey hen pukao (I have never seen a mountain)

phom kuey apnaam laeo (I have already bathed)

[meadish_sweetball]

เคยทำแล้ว - koey tum lairo - (I) did it before - "koey" is used in answering a question such as "Did you make a cake? - "koey tum lairo"

phom kuey apnaam laeo (I have already bathed)

JaiRawnNitNoy, thank you for the definition. I agree with the two translations 'ever' and 'used to'.

However, the two examples I quoted from you and Soundman used above sound ungrammatical to me, and also do not quite rhyme with the two explanations 'ever' and 'used to' if you look closer at it.

เคยทำแล้ว is the answer for a 'Have you ever/Did you ever' question, i.e. specifically concerns past experience of something, or a habit in the past, so does not quite work here.

phom kuey apnaam laeo (= I already have experience of taking a shower).

To ask 'Have you taken a shower?' concerning past but within today, you would use

อาบน้ำรึยัง long form คุณได้อาบน้ำแล้วหรือยัง aab naam rue yang OR khun (dai) aab naam laeo rue yang

อาบแล้ว long form ผมอาบน้ำมาแล้ว aab laeo OR phom aab naam (maa) laeo

[Richard W]

I think the best translation of เคย is 'not never'. This makes it very confusing when a Thai merely means that something was done at least once, but then uses 'used to' when speaking English. And that does reveal the complexity of past tenses. เคย can be rendered as an English perfect or using 'used to'.

[rongx]

hmm. can i ask, arb naam leow mai?

and also, i see alot of (maa) after some words. what is it's meaning?

[CSS]

hmm. can i ask, arb naam leow mai?

and also, i see alot of (maa) after some words. what is it's meaning?

No, you can't ask arb naam leow mai? arb naam mai? Is asking whether they want to take a shower/bath. Leow puts the action in the past but asking them whether they want to bath in the past tense doesn't make sense.

You can ask, arb naam ruu yang?

maa is also a word that moves the sentence into the past. For example:

bai nai? Where are you going?

bai nai maa Where are you coming from?/where were you?

I might also stick on maa in the reply to the sentence above. Arb naam ruu yang? Arb naam maa leow. (My impression is that by adding maa to leow here it moves the action to another place as well as time, saying that before I came here I already bathed, I'd probably wait for confirmation from another poster for this though)

One more example:

gin arai? What are you eating?/what do you want to eat? (depending on context)

gin arai maa? What did you eat (before coming here)

[rongx]

wow.

so ja is a future tense indicator, maa is a past tense, so is there a need for a present?

ruu yang = already ?

[phibunmike]

wow.

so ja is a future tense indicator, maa is a past tense, so is there a need for a present?

ruu yang = already ?

Q: arb naam ruu yang ? [have you showered yet ? have you showered or not (n'est ce pas)]

A (affrimative): arb naam leow. [showered already.]

A (negative): yang. [not yet.]

(but i am not an expert :-) )

[rongx]

well hello all. 2 busy weeks at work. hmm, have a query, how do you say 'have to' in thai? for e.g

i have to go to work tomorrow.

and 'i can', and 'i can't', and 'because'

like

i can/can't go to work tmrw, because etc etc..

ok i should stop here if not i'll just keep going on and on and on .

cheers!

[khaojao]

my guesses (i'm still learning too!)...instead of "have to", "need to" is used (?)

prung nii phom/chan tong pai tham ngaan khrap/kha

tomorrow i need to go to work

can = dai

cannot = mai dai

because = proc (waa)

but the tricky bit is WHERE in the sentence you put it...

to say "I cannot go to work because ... ...", you say

phom/chan pai tham ngaan mai dai proc (waa) ... ...

however, if you put mai dai BEFORE pai tham ngaan (as in, phom/chan mai dai pai tham ngaan) the meaning changes. mai dai here means DID NOT

[soundman]

I have to go to work tomorrow:

ผมต้องไปทำงานพรุ่งนี้

pom dtorng bpai tum ngahn proong nee.

dtorng - have to, tum ngahn - work, proong nee - tomorrow.

I cannot go to work tommorow:

ผมไปทำงานพรุ่งนี้ไม่ได้

pom bpai tum ngahn proong nee mai dai

I go work tomorrow cannot.

mai dai - cannot.

Because:

เพราะว่า

proh (very short oh sound almost like o in hot) wah

Cheers,

Soundman.

[cooL_guY_corY]

พรุ่ is this right for proong ? should there be a ง ? i am assuming i am wrong because i am very unlearned in this, just curious if i am wrong if you could explain it to me.

very helpful thread!

[meadish_sweetball]

You're right Cory, it should be พรุ่ง with a ง.

[soundman]

Sorry about the typo guys.

Should have re-read it a little slower before posting!

I have a hard enough time spelling things correctly in English let alone Thai script with a keyboard where most of the symbols are faded.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[meadish_sweetball]

We all make mistakes Soundman. The state of my own Thai spelling is terrible.

Would you like me to fix your post above (will try not to mess it up further )?

[soundman]

We all make mistakes Soundman. The state of my own Thai spelling is terrible.

Would you like me to fix your post above (will try not to mess it up further )?

Thanx for that meadish. It might be wise to fix it up for the benifit of others (like myself) who grab a daily exercise from Thai Language Forum.

Not too worried about actually making the mistake. We all do it (and learn from it) - although I admit that I should have proof read it more thouroughly, epecially when cut & pasting to a second line.

Cheers,

Soundman.

[cooL_guY_corY]

oh ok cool, the thing is i wasnt sure because i dont know enough about the language to know whats right or wrong, was curious if it was some rule or something i havent learned yet. by the way this forum is awesome from your guys contributions

[mangkorn]

Is there some (perhaps unwritten) rule about the placement of พรุ่งนี้ - such that it should come at the start of a sentence, but not at the end, as in the example of soundman? I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but I seem to recall having been corrected a couple of times on a similar sentence construction. Or was I just imagining that?

Edited June 15, 2007 by mangkorn

[khaojao]

Is there some (perhaps unwritten) rule about the placement of ???????? - such that it should come at the start of a sentence, but not at the end, as in the example of soundman? I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but I seem to recall having been corrected a couple of times on a similar sentence construction. Or was I just imagining that?

i was taught that you can use it at the beginning or then end.

similar to english :-

tomorrow, i have to go to work.

-or-

i have to go to work tomorrow.

[aanon]

Is there some (perhaps unwritten) rule about the placement of ???????? - such that it should come at the start of a sentence, but not at the end, as in the example of soundman? I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but I seem to recall having been corrected a couple of times on a similar sentence construction. Or was I just imagining that?

i was taught that you can use it at the beginning or then end.

similar to english :-

tomorrow, i have to go to work.

-or-

i have to go to work tomorrow.

that's right, time markers like "proong nee" (tomorrow), "wan nee" (today), "meua waan" (yesterday) etc can go at the beginning or the end. however - as in english - if the sentence is complicated, it's best to get the time marker in at the beginning so that it clearly covers everything.

eg.

yesterday, i went to the doctor and was given the results of my last blood test before going in to have the x-rays done, and that's when i saw her.

all the best.

Edited June 17, 2007 by aanon