My New Pc

[Noodles]

Ok at last I have my new PC up and running. This is the spec;

Win XP Professional

Intel Core 2 Duo 6300 1.86GHz

Asus P5B Deluxe motherboard

Saphire Radeon X1950 graphics card

2 X PQI DDR2 1GB Ram

2 X Seagate 320GB baracuda hard discs 16 mb buffer

Asus DRW-1814BLT DVD Writer

Hardcano 12SE Temperature monitor

Asus 550 power supply

Silverstone TJ06 case [black]

Asus MW201 20" wide screen Monitor

So far things are running smoothly. You can deffinatley notice the 2 gig

of ram after using 512 on my laptop. I have only burned a couple of music cds

so far, so I have not properly tested its speed, but I am multitasking like crazy without

any of the normal crashes that I use to get.

Thanks to Firefox for all the info he supplied to me. The silverstone case was bought

before I got your reply back, but so far I'm quite happy with it.

I used a thai company here on samui to build it for me, as I wouldn't know where to start.

I have taken some pics of the inside of the case for you all to view and give feedback on where

improvements can be made.

http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1607hr4.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1608nw4.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg16051va1.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1617jf9.jpg

I thought the wiring looked a bit shoddy, but that might be down to the hardcano temperature

wiring. I was given lots of advice on different forums about using programs or hardware to

montitor temperature, and there was more negative responses about software.

My temperatures while system idle are;

CPU 35c

Graphics 38c

Motherboard 47c

Power Supply 36.5

There is no aircon in this part of the house where the computer is, so I know during the day

the room temperature can be quite hot.

I've noticed on the lcd display for the hardcano that the temperature is somtimes not steady,

like 38.5, 39.00, 40.00 and then back down to 38.5 all in a couple of seconds, which makes

me wonder how accurate this thing really is. Anyway temperature is my only concern at the moment

with this build.

With the hard discs I opted to partition the first one. The first part being 100gb for OS, programs

and my documents. The other 200 so gb for music, video and dvd. The second hard disc for back up.

I would appreciate your feedback both positive and negative,

Thanks

[dave_boo]

Ok at last I have my new PC up and running. This is the spec;

Win XP Professional

Intel Core 2 Duo 6300 1.86GHz

Asus P5B Deluxe motherboard

Saphire Radeon X1950 graphics card

2 X PQI DDR2 1GB Ram

2 X Seagate 320GB baracuda hard discs 16 mb buffer

Asus DRW-1814BLT DVD Writer

Hardcano 12SE Temperature monitor

Asus 550 power supply

Silverstone TJ06 case [black]

Asus MW201 20" wide screen Monitor

So far things are running smoothly. You can deffinatley notice the 2 gig

of ram after using 512 on my laptop. I have only burned a couple of music cds

so far, so I have not properly tested its speed, but I am multitasking like crazy without

any of the normal crashes that I use to get.

Thanks to Firefox for all the info he supplied to me. The silverstone case was bought

before I got your reply back, but so far I'm quite happy with it.

I used a thai company here on samui to build it for me, as I wouldn't know where to start.

I have taken some pics of the inside of the case for you all to view and give feedback on where

improvements can be made.

http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1607hr4.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1608nw4.jpg

http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg16051va1.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cimg1617jf9.jpg

I thought the wiring looked a bit shoddy, but that might be down to the hardcano temperature

wiring. I was given lots of advice on different forums about using programs or hardware to

montitor temperature, and there was more negative responses about software.

My temperatures while system idle are;

CPU 35c

Graphics 38c

Motherboard 47c

Power Supply 36.5

There is no aircon in this part of the house where the computer is, so I know during the day

the room temperature can be quite hot.

I've noticed on the lcd display for the hardcano that the temperature is somtimes not steady,

like 38.5, 39.00, 40.00 and then back down to 38.5 all in a couple of seconds, which makes

me wonder how accurate this thing really is. Anyway temperature is my only concern at the moment

with this build.

With the hard discs I opted to partition the first one. The first part being 100gb for OS, programs

and my documents. The other 200 so gb for music, video and dvd. The second hard disc for back up.

I would appreciate your feedback both positive and negative,

Thanks

I'm going to give a suggestion first. Instead of using a url tag, use a img tag. It will make the post longer vertically, but for lazy ba$tards like me, it's a lot easier than clicking on each link!

Nice specs, but I would have gone with a nVidia card, simply because of their better support under F/OSS. Granted, both companies have closed source drivers, but ATI's aren't as up to par in regards to performance.

The TJ-06 is a nice case, but a bit overbuilt. I.E., it's a heavy sucker! The wiring is kinda messy, but with the motherboard being inverted like that, you do want to keep them out of the "wind tunnel". I would definitely go to anywhere you can get those zip ties, and redo it yourself.

Actually, looking at all the pictures, why do they have the GPU in the black slot? Direct from Asus's website:

2 x PCI-E x16 (blue @ x16 mode, black @ x2 or x4 mode)

They have it your GPU in the slowest slot!!! Go ahead and move it up to the blue one for more performance.

One reason your motherboard could be reporting such high temperatures is that with the wind tunnel being the way it is, the rest of the case kinda swelters. I think if you took the readings from your hard drives, you may have a heart attack. Silverstone did a poor job planning any cooling except for the CPU.

I recommend you download motherboard monitor, since it polls the sensors themselves. Should be much more accurate.

[MrSnrang]

Looking at that picture makes me dizzy...

[Noodles]

Do yo mean this blue slot?

[dave_boo]

Do yo mean this blue slot?

Sho' enuff. There really shouldn't be a problem moving it, but knowing Windows, you may be prompted to reinstall the drivers.

[Noodles]

Ok, I may have to get someone in to move it to the blue slot as I don't fancy messing about with it.

I've read that some people with the silverstone TJ06 actually decreased temps by removing

the wind tunnel?

I may look for another case in a few months and try and sale this one.

Thanks

[MaiPenLai]

Nice build Noodles !

You made a note about Firefox suggesting a different case. Which case was he/she suggesting and why please? I have made a few builds but never too old to learn something new.

I am about to make a similar build to your spec, A little different as I am going for an OC gaming rig.

Enjoy your new com

[Noodles]

^^^

Firefoxx just suggested against Silverstone in general, but my wifes dad had bought

it already from the JediCool store in BKK.

[Firefoxx]

Silverstone is just a bit too expensive in Thailand, so I recommend against it. Steel cases that look nice on the outside, but are overpriced and don't have good cooling on the inside. They do make nice HTPC cases (again, expensive).

ATI vs Nvidia, it can always be argued. At that time, the 1950XT was a very good choice, and actually beat Nvidia in the cost-vs-performance area. Right now, I'd recommend something that supports DX10, just for the sake of future-proofing (I got a 8600GTS, but the ATI 2600 looks promising, just not widely available). Two reasons I got it: HDCP and DX10, and the ATI equivalent wasn't out yet. Nvidia was widely criticized for its vista drivers (ie, the inexistance of them). Right now, I'm pretty disappointed at Nvidia for not having XP drivers (err, wow) that support HD acceleration. I'd rather not switch to Vista just to use my video card to its fullest.

Another thing I would change, from actual experience, is the CPU, from the 6300 to the E4300. It's such a good value to overclock. Saves a lot. When Noodles first asked, the E4300 was still too new to recommend. My new system: E4300, 2GB Ram, Thermalright 120, 8600GTS, P5B. It's a temporary system, which I will move to HTPC duty later on, but it still does very nicely in the gaming category.

[dave_boo]

Silverstone is just a bit too expensive in Thailand, so I recommend against it. Steel cases that look nice on the outside, but are overpriced and don't have good cooling on the inside. They do make nice HTPC cases (again, expensive).

ATI vs Nvidia, it can always be argued. At that time, the 1950XT was a very good choice, and actually beat Nvidia in the cost-vs-performance area. Right now, I'd recommend something that supports DX10, just for the sake of future-proofing (I got a 8600GTS, but the ATI 2600 looks promising, just not widely available). Two reasons I got it: HDCP and DX10, and the ATI equivalent wasn't out yet. Nvidia was widely criticized for its vista drivers (ie, the inexistance of them). Right now, I'm pretty disappointed at Nvidia for not having XP drivers (err, wow) that support HD acceleration. I'd rather not switch to Vista just to use my video card to its fullest.

Another thing I would change, from actual experience, is the CPU, from the 6300 to the E4300. It's such a good value to overclock. Saves a lot. When Noodles first asked, the E4300 was still too new to recommend. My new system: E4300, 2GB Ram, Thermalright 120, 8600GTS, P5B. It's a temporary system, which I will move to HTPC duty later on, but it still does very nicely in the gaming category.

Don't get me wrong, I was an ATI guy from back in the day. I owned every refresh of their cards from the original Rage all the way up to the 9800, mostly in AIW versions. However, I than discovered Linux, and any frustrations I had with ATI were compounded by at least 10 on Linux. I'm not disparaging their products, merely stating why I don't use them.

Nvidia really dropped the ball on their Vista drivers. Pretty much all development on the XP versions was stopped until they could get the Vista drivers up to par. However, I saw a test where the XP drivers still manage to edge out the Vista ones, even being older versions.

The Silverstone can be really nice looking cases, but they don't hold a candle to Lian-Li. Those are breathtaking. However, if you think that Silverstone's overpriced, you'd probably think that Lian-Li was highway robbery.

[dave_boo]

Ok, I may have to get someone in to move it to the blue slot as I don't fancy messing about with it.

I've read that some people with the silverstone TJ06 actually decreased temps by removing

the wind tunnel?

I may look for another case in a few months and try and sale this one.

Thanks

Actually meant to fold this into my other response, but why don't you do it yourself. There's like three screws on the back edge and a little latch you have to slide up. Side panel slides back a centimeter or so and gets lifted off. Pinch the little plastic thingy that's holding the card down, pull back the lever (takes some force), and swing it out of your way. Push the little retaining arm on the slot out of the way (probably the hardest part if you're thick fingered like me!) and pull the card straight out. Move the retaining clip out of the way in the new slot and pop out the cover. Push your card straight in. Lock down the tab (again, a lot of force is required), put the cover bracket over the old hole, and lock down its tab. Replace your side panel and be done with it.

If you can change an oil filter, you can do this! Don't be scared.

[Firefoxx]

My current case costs 7,000, but it's full tower, aluminum, with 4 (yes 4) 120mm fans, 4 HDD bays, and 10 (yes, 10) 5.25" bays. It's Thermaltake, and it's better value than Lian Li. Lian Li is nice, but I could get chinese aluminum cases that could do the same job cheaper (in fact, I have 2). The really big expensive Lian Li on wheels also uses a wind tunnel feature, but it also doesn't pull it off. Lian Li was king at a time when high-end cases were rare, but now there are a lot of other players in the field, which are better value.

I've used video cards since the days of monochrome-green-text (actually, before, during the days of TI's and Apple II's). Then went to Hercules, some preliminary CGA, then early VGA (skipped EGA) which was only 640x480x16 colors, then early SVGA, then some early 3D, then Voodoo1, then Voodoo2, then some other 3D, then more 3D, then ATI 9600, then ATI 1600, then ATI X700, now Nvidia. So, really, I've been through the whole spectrum. I don't stick to any brand, since that's not very wise. Companies don't always make good or bad products, you look at each individual product at each time. The only reason I've been with ATI for so long is because they just had to have the right card for me at the right time (and that was the same reason I recommened it to Noodles, right card at the right time). (And yes, their AIW series was really king of the kill for video/TV, too bad it was too expensive here and too hard to find) Right now, Nvidia is doing that, so I chose Nvidia. But again, it really is not right for me to not have HD acceleration on a well established OS, when the new OS has it. I dunno, I'd rather have even beta support rather than no support at all, since HD acceleration was a BIG reason why I bought this card.

For moving the VGA card, just unscrew the card, release the latch that holds it to the mainboard, and move it, re-latch, screw it in.

[cali]

I don't see the appeal of tower/mid-tower anymore unless all you care about is cheap, but that is a big reason I admit. All towers do is point out you have an oversized box with lots of unsightly empty bays. It was "cool" 10 years ago to have a big tower with 4 floppy drives, several optical drives, some hard drives, and a tape drive. Now it's the bling lan party look and that means SFF (small form factor). Silverstone makes some of the best SFF cases you can find: good design, good materials, good finish. Pricey, but they are good. The Silverstone SG03 allows you to drop in even 8800 Ultra SLI, ATX power supply, MicroAtx motherboard, DVD, couple hard drive RAID, memory card reader, PCI card (you pick), and have great cooling including 2x120mm fans. Almost no one will use all that expansion--and that's an SFF case the size of 2 shoe boxes.

[Simmo]

I'd rather not switch to Vista just to use my video card to its fullest.

DirectX10 will be vista only, so you'll have to switch anyway. =

[dave_boo]

I'd rather not switch to Vista just to use my video card to its fullest.

DirectX10 will be vista only, so you'll have to switch anyway. =

True, but this wrapper makes it a bit of a moot point.

[Firefoxx]

I don't see the appeal of tower/mid-tower anymore unless all you care about is cheap, but that is a big reason I admit. All towers do is point out you have an oversized box with lots of unsightly empty bays. It was "cool" 10 years ago to have a big tower with 4 floppy drives, several optical drives, some hard drives, and a tape drive. Now it's the bling lan party look and that means SFF (small form factor). Silverstone makes some of the best SFF cases you can find: good design, good materials, good finish. Pricey, but they are good. The Silverstone SG03 allows you to drop in even 8800 Ultra SLI, ATX power supply, MicroAtx motherboard, DVD, couple hard drive RAID, memory card reader, PCI card (you pick), and have great cooling including 2x120mm fans. Almost no one will use all that expansion--and that's an SFF case the size of 2 shoe boxes.

Well, if you could find a way to put my Core 2 heatsink with 120mm fan, 3 PCI expansion cards, 2 optical drives, and 10 harddrives in an SFF case, I'd be glad to use one. So, is there a way?

Again, folks, if you don't have a use for something, it doesn't mean that other people are going to be in the same situation. I ALWAYS go big.

The thing about SFF in Thailand is that the SFF scene here is practically nonexistant. Places like Hardware House used to carry them, but since they didn't sell very well, they don't sell them anymore. You're also limiting yourself in many ways, only slightly better than using a notebook (and of course heavier). 1-2 harddrives/optical drives, limited choice of heatsinks, limited choice of graphics, limited choice of motherboards. SFF is good for some things, but it's not the holy grail by any means.

As for Directx10, no games (at least, none that I play) support it yet, so it's a moot point. However, I do have around 30 HD quality movies RIGHT NOW that I'd like to see accelerated, not to mention that I have a HD camcorder, so I make my own HD movies. When the Directx10 games become common, Vista will probably be mature enough for me to switch to. I never adopt a new OS right when it's released. Too many bugs to work out.

[cali]

Well, if you could find a way to put my Core 2 heatsink with 120mm fan, 3 PCI expansion cards, 2 optical drives, and 10 harddrives in an SFF case, I'd be glad to use one. So, is there a way?

Probably so. There are massive SFF cpu coolers that utilize a 120mm fan. Do you really require 10 physical disk drives or would a 3 terabyte RAID do? MicroATX has 2 PCI slots already and modern motherboards can probably be found with onboard functionality to replace one of your PCI cards and if not you could get one in PCIe form and put it in that slot. Opticals, no problem as a couple 5.25 bays is pretty easy to find in SFF or you could go with the slims.

You're also limiting yourself in many ways, only slightly better than using a notebook (and of course heavier). 1-2 harddrives/optical drives, limited choice of heatsinks, limited choice of graphics, limited choice of motherboards. SFF is good for some things, but it's not the holy grail by any means.

That is not true. The SFF case I mentioned allows a couple 8800GTX in SLI, unlimited power supply choice from anything you can put in your ATX case, and 3 desktop hard drives. And dropping in 8GB of RAM is a given on MicroATX. That is not "SLIGHTLY" better than a notebook, that is a killer system with massive graphics, disk, CPU, and RAM using the finest desktop parts available! I don't consider that a sacrifice in the least. Maybe you are thinking in terms of the extremely small stuff like MiniItx being more like a laptop.

Bigger is not always better. Someone could make a fan the size of a garbage can lid and claim superiority over your 120mm fan, but that's not the point. The point is you can achieve excellent cooling in a SFF case using a variety of the most advanced techniques to meet your target objective. You can even watercool in SFF and OC is common.

I am not surprised SFF is unpopular in Thailand because it usually adds cost here and there. Besides, Thai's would prefer a case that most resembles the battlestar gallactica.

[Firefoxx]

Like I said before cali, whatever suits you, suits you. Whatever suits other people probably doesn't suit you, but it suits them. You're really entitled to whatever you like, but always looking down upon other people's choices simply because you think yours is better isn't going to get you anywhere. You're rich, and you like small things, great, and you just insinuated that Thais are cheap. It may be true, it may be false, but it's not really in good taste.

I'm not going to debate/argue with you any more, it's useless.

[solo siam]

My current case costs 7,000, but it's full tower, aluminum, with 4 (yes 4) 120mm fans, 4 HDD bays, and 10 (yes, 10) 5.25" bays. It's Thermaltake, and it's better value than Lian Li. Lian Li is nice, but I could get chinese aluminum cases that could do the same job cheaper (in fact, I have 2). The really big expensive Lian Li on wheels also uses a wind tunnel feature, but it also doesn't pull it off. Lian Li was king at a time when high-end cases were rare, but now there are a lot of other players in the field, which are better value.

I've used video cards since the days of monochrome-green-text (actually, before, during the days of TI's and Apple II's). Then went to Hercules, some preliminary CGA, then early VGA (skipped EGA) which was only 640x480x16 colors, then early SVGA, then some early 3D, then Voodoo1, then Voodoo2, then some other 3D, then more 3D, then ATI 9600, then ATI 1600, then ATI X700, now Nvidia. So, really, I've been through the whole spectrum. I don't stick to any brand, since that's not very wise. Companies don't always make good or bad products, you look at each individual product at each time. The only reason I've been with ATI for so long is because they just had to have the right card for me at the right time (and that was the same reason I recommened it to Noodles, right card at the right time). (And yes, their AIW series was really king of the kill for video/TV, too bad it was too expensive here and too hard to find) Right now, Nvidia is doing that, so I chose Nvidia. But again, it really is not right for me to not have HD acceleration on a well established OS, when the new OS has it. I dunno, I'd rather have even beta support rather than no support at all, since HD acceleration was a BIG reason why I bought this card.

For moving the VGA card, just unscrew the card, release the latch that holds it to the mainboard, and move it, re-latch, screw it in.

Hercules, now that takes me back - In the Dos days had to run a program called hgcibm.exe to get the thing into monochrome CGA mode.

My problem with the smaller form factors is that the motherboards are limited and in my experience pretty crap TBH

[Simmo]

True, but this wrapper makes it a bit of a moot point.

The Inquirer as a reliable source ...

[cali]

I'm not going to debate/argue with you any more, it's useless.

That saddens me when one loses the technical argument they hurl a few insults and run away. I on the other hand have not given a single insult, only ideas and facts. I even offered an olive branch to why you might have mistakenly declared SFF as "slightly" better than a notebook. Twisting my post to call Thai's cheap is out of order and for the record I love them like my family, no matter their economic standing.

I just tried to add an out of the box idea to a discussion that turned to cases as I recently researched them and my opening statement sums up my conclusion which is "I don't see the appeal of tower/mid-tower anymore unless all you care about is cheap, but that is a big reason I admit". For what it is worth, it was not directed at you but rather just happened to be the most recent. Of course there will always be those that need a box the size of a refrigerator or somewhere between. But the fact is computer hardware is getting smaller over time. It is only natural the case too can follow suit.

I hope that clarifies the parts of my input that I feel have been misinterpreted.

[dave_boo]

True, but this wrapper makes it a bit of a moot point.

The Inquirer as a reliable source ...

Meh, it was the first google link there was. Arstechina covered, as did other sites.

[quiksilva]

Nice system, I'm hoping to build something like myself shortly, actually I am in the process of slowly modding my HP. I changed the gpu and added an extra hardrive but found out it wouldn't fit in the case, so ripped it all out and got an Asus Vento from Fortune.

Its huge, pricey and is a bit old now (2005) but it looks cool (Darth Vader anyone) and has pretty good air flow.

[Naam]

tell us about your other perversions. should be quite interesting

[stumonster]

I am interested in microATX form factor motherboards and cases - does anyone have any knowledge of shop in pantip,fortune or zeer that have some sort of range.

I want to build a microATX with a duo core CPU, XPpro, 2 gigs ram , PCIe Video , and large sata HD as my personal desktop machine .