Thai Higher-ups Want To Cull Out Undesirables -

[samran]

Point is taken BUT, the size of an economy does not always correlate with the quality of life.

That is very true, but that is not my point. If you look at it this way, then on average, the GNI per capita is twice in Panama than in thailand ($4.6K vs $2.7K). But I don't know much - or anything - about the Panamanian economy, although I suspect that its economy isn't very diversified and pretty much relies on taxes for ships going through the canal. I also suspect that, like somewhere like Saudi Arabia, while having a huge source of foreign income, its economy is going nowhere fast. No jobs for locals, moribund local economy.

The second half of my last post is that that non-working migrants have very little, or potentially overall negative impact on an economy. Ergo, if you are going to live somewhere, you better be prepared to pay your way - and not expect the local government to subsidise your stay via easy visas and not taxing your offshore income.

I can think of many small countries with small economies that I would much rather live in than Thailand.

This is matter of preference, I can't really comment. Countries restrict their borders according to what they view as their national priorities, not what Joe Blogs off the street thinks should be his/her right to live in a place.

Wages, in this world, are also kept down because of the global labor supply problem....too many people searching for too few quality jobs (something that is never discussed by politicians or the mainstream mass media because it threatens MNCs).

What global labour supply problem? Sounds like you've been reading "Treehuggers weekly"?

Wages in the world are kept down due to productivity of labour being kept down. That means not only the skills of workers, but also access to transport, proper infrastructure, capital markets etc etc. While there may be elements of 'the man' keeping things down, wages reflect what a persons contribution in value is. You either create 'x' amount of value - which you get paid, or you don't. Very hard headed and cold economic thinking there, not something that our friends of the hairy armpit, kym-ba-ya singing, MNC bashing left want to hear. The best way to create jobs is put in place the environment for them to happen - competitively. Most people are employed by small to medium sized businesses, not MNC's.

To say that bashing down borders will raise the average wage of people around the world is in some respects a falsehood. Entire regions of the EU and the US have vastly different average incomes - in the same skill set -, even though people can freely come and go as they please.

The earlier post was useful because the guy lives in Panama and wanted to let us know about how easy it is to retire there......he also stated that too many people were coming there.......sounds like Panama is attracting expats and not making things difficult for them or treating them like shit. But all of this is off topic.

Panama, as I said, is probably attracting migrants cause (by the sounds of it) it is giving out bargain basement visas to all and sundry. Sounds like a going out of business sale to me - I can't think of why else they are so desperate to get people in. I'm sure the Panamanian government isn't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. To do the same in Thailand would be economic suicide.

[LoveDaBlues]

IF I wanted it to feel or be like Australia I would choose Thailand or Philippines, enough of them in both places

as far as people go. Don't like Thailand or the feel it gives of being a welfare state for desperate foreigners.

LOS

your desperation is showing

I second that. Sure there are some lower-class foreigners here but they are not in the majority.

I retired at 48 in the US. Was about to buy a home on a golf course (#1 fairway ) but decided to spend a couple of months here. I liked it so I came back and have been here 2 years.

The farang I hang with play golf, poker, etc........drive nice cars and most have nice homes or rent a decent place. They eat well and stay active. Sound like we're desperate?

Perhaps you were hanging with the wrong people.

I think you were burned big-time by a Thai lady; your posts reek of it. Am I wrong?

[Naam]

I think you were burned big-time by a Thai lady; your posts reek of it. Am I wrong?

does this really happen?

[JR Texas]

Point is taken BUT, the size of an economy does not always correlate with the quality of life.

That is very true, but that is not my point. If you look at it this way, then on average, the GNI per capita is twice in Panama than in thailand ($4.6K vs $2.7K). But I don't know much - or anything - about the Panamanian economy, although I suspect that its economy isn't very diversified and pretty much relies on taxes for ships going through the canal. I also suspect that, like somewhere like Saudi Arabia, while having a huge source of foreign income, its economy is going nowhere fast. No jobs for locals, moribund local economy.

The second half of my last post is that that non-working migrants have very little, or potentially overall negative impact on an economy. Ergo, if you are going to live somewhere, you better be prepared to pay your way - and not expect the local government to subsidise your stay via easy visas and not taxing your offshore income.

I can think of many small countries with small economies that I would much rather live in than Thailand.

This is matter of preference, I can't really comment. Countries restrict their borders according to what they view as their national priorities, not what Joe Blogs off the street thinks should be his/her right to live in a place.

Wages, in this world, are also kept down because of the global labor supply problem....too many people searching for too few quality jobs (something that is never discussed by politicians or the mainstream mass media because it threatens MNCs).

What global labour supply problem? Sounds like you've been reading "Treehuggers weekly"?

Wages in the world are kept down due to productivity of labour being kept down. That means not only the skills of workers, but also access to transport, proper infrastructure, capital markets etc etc. While there may be elements of 'the man' keeping things down, wages reflect what a persons contribution in value is. You either create 'x' amount of value - which you get paid, or you don't. Very hard headed and cold economic thinking there, not something that our friends of the hairy armpit, kym-ba-ya singing, MNC bashing left want to hear. The best way to create jobs is put in place the environment for them to happen - competitively. Most people are employed by small to medium sized businesses, not MNC's.

To say that bashing down borders will raise the average wage of people around the world is in some respects a falsehood. Entire regions of the EU and the US have vastly different average incomes - in the same skill set -, even though people can freely come and go as they please.

The earlier post was useful because the guy lives in Panama and wanted to let us know about how easy it is to retire there......he also stated that too many people were coming there.......sounds like Panama is attracting expats and not making things difficult for them or treating them like shit. But all of this is off topic.

Panama, as I said, is probably attracting migrants cause (by the sounds of it) it is giving out bargain basement visas to all and sundry. Sounds like a going out of business sale to me - I can't think of why else they are so desperate to get people in. I'm sure the Panamanian government isn't doing it out of the kindness of their hearts. To do the same in Thailand would be economic suicide.

JR Texas to Samran: Don't want to spend too much time/space off topic, BUT: disagree with your view on how/why wages go up/down (labor supply problem I identified is very real and plays itself out in the global economy......also, an American worker can be productive and not make a dime after his job is shipped overseas to China); not sure why any person would think trees are not extremely valuable.........my thinking on this comes from working on the problem of 21st century sustainability....trying to use science to solve many problems like overpopulation, global warming, poverty, etc. About Panama.......just did some internet searches and read up on it........WOW.......great visa rules and retirement plans.......beautiful country........voted by AARP as one of the world's best retirement locations......voted by Sovereign Society as one of the best places for banking.......one of the few countries that dares to say "no" to the Bad Bush. I strongly suggest that readers on this forum who are interested in an alternative to Thailand take a look at Panama and do not listen to what I have to say or Samran.

[brahmburgers]

I almost moved to Belize before I opted for Thailand, 8 years ago. Lots of plusses in Belize, not least of which it's the only English-speaking country in Central America, and has the 2nd largest barrier reef in the world. I came within a gnat's ass of purchasing 17 acres from a Mayan family - that stood directly on a very secluded border with Guatemala, not far from Tikal. There were long rows of weed-covered rock formations there (ancient burial grounds?). Who knows how life would be different if I had gone that route? Instead, I'm here retired in Thailand - making the best of it - but still don't like the hoops that farang are made to jump through in order to comply with mutable and unclear visa regulations. My situation is tenable, but I feel for the many younger (and often married) farang who get forced to relocate to other countries - when they and their Thai spouses and kids would rather reside comfortably here in Thailand.

[Khun ?]

Panama allows no custom fee for a vehicle import every 2 years for 10 years along with at least a one time $20K

important of private belongings. ( may be a bit off on the figures) Many websites on the issue if one has interest.

The weather is like Thailand, extremely unbearble, humid and nasty stinking hot unless up by Cost Rica border mountainous area.

The fact is being in the lowest 30% of income from ones own country does not always make you the most attractive

or bode well with some countries governments. They don't wish to become a farang welfare state and they don't need you working or running a business for half than one would in their home country.

Yes have a ex-thai and child but it was my choice to divorce and not put up with the ex, we never lived in LOS together and she was employed in europe because I got her employment, which was where I lived and worked also. They live outside of Thailand, no where close to where I work and live. Took a few years to talk her into a divorce 10 years ago and we did not live together for almost 15 years. We have to share cost on daughter if she lives in thailand,

she don't, I don't.

Raised children on my own for several years before, while working in foreign countries. Neither are close to being in the bottom 30% of income earners in their home country. It took me most of 40 years before I realized that I had quite a bit of tax free money and Per Diem that more than covered my expenses so put my savings to work.

Be safe and use the old bean once in a while and it becomes easy to get ahead in life, rather than run off hot headed

every time something does not work in ones favor. I have bought my parents a place to retire plus helped my children back home with the same plus.

I would never think of giving up work if I was of low income compared to others in my own country. I have no desire to commit sucide because I can live cheap somewhere else and when that don't work out I can go back to work and start over and work into my 60's unless I hit the lottery.

[samran]

JR Texas to Samran: Don't want to spend too much time/space off topic, BUT: disagree with your view on how/why wages go up/down (labor supply problem I identified is very real and plays itself out in the global economy......also, an American worker can be productive and not make a dime after his job is shipped overseas to China); not sure why any person would think trees are not extremely valuable.........my thinking on this comes from working on the problem of 21st century sustainability....trying to use science to solve many problems like overpopulation, global warming, poverty, etc. About Panama.......just did some internet searches and read up on it........WOW.......great visa rules and retirement plans.......beautiful country........voted by AARP as one of the world's best retirement locations......voted by Sovereign Society as one of the best places for banking.......one of the few countries that dares to say "no" to the Bad Bush. I strongly suggest that readers on this forum who are interested in an alternative to Thailand take a look at Panama and do not listen to what I have to say or Samran.

Enjoying the debate...which is what it is all about for me.

Just one question, you were the only person who voted for Ralph Nader in Texas...weren't you??

[Mid]

Ralph Nader in Texas

sorry , carry on ...................

[JR Texas]

JR Texas to Samran: Don't want to spend too much time/space off topic, BUT: disagree with your view on how/why wages go up/down (labor supply problem I identified is very real and plays itself out in the global economy......also, an American worker can be productive and not make a dime after his job is shipped overseas to China); not sure why any person would think trees are not extremely valuable.........my thinking on this comes from working on the problem of 21st century sustainability....trying to use science to solve many problems like overpopulation, global warming, poverty, etc. About Panama.......just did some internet searches and read up on it........WOW.......great visa rules and retirement plans.......beautiful country........voted by AARP as one of the world's best retirement locations......voted by Sovereign Society as one of the best places for banking.......one of the few countries that dares to say "no" to the Bad Bush. I strongly suggest that readers on this forum who are interested in an alternative to Thailand take a look at Panama and do not listen to what I have to say or Samran.

Enjoying the debate...which is what it is all about for me.

Just one question, you were the only person who voted for Ralph Nader in Texas...weren't you??

JR Texas: Ouuchhh! About my personal political views........the last politician I would have voted for was JFK...now I see almost no difference between the so-called "right" and "left." I think it is an illusion designed by the ruling elite to keep the game going...it makes the system look democratic...but we are really voting for the representatives of the corporate-political-military triangle of power....that is all. Ralph Nader....at least he has the guts/balls to try to do something positive with his life. I truly believe that a new political party must be formed in the USA....it must be underpinned by a progressive ideology that can lead us in the direction of 21st century sustainability and it should focus on two key issues: massive reduction in population numbers worldwide and the development and deployment of a new energy system. But, off topic.

[samran]

Samran to JR Texas (oh, come on guys...I had to try this walkie talking thing once):

I was just teasing, in a very good natured way. Totally respect your views...which are at least thought through.

If I was to resurect my old avtar, of former Australian Prime Minister Paul Keating (closest thing to God on earth), the Australian members of the forum would hound me out.

Actually, they did try when I put him up about 2 years ago. The avtar lasted about 1 month I beleive....

Anyway, back on topic.

[Khun ?]

I had a house in Thailand by a golf course that cost a few mil baht, also bought my parents house by golf course back home

with weather similar to Thailand. I have been looking in Central america now at a few houses by golf course one on the 16th fairway, but as experience taught me, live somewhere first a year or two before buying. I still receive a about 80K baht a month for my house in Thailand that I sold.

Only one girl in Thailand that would interest me residing with, whom also was my caddy for several years.

Relationship was not allowed until married. In her 30's never had a boyfriend and would not go for a meal without her fathers

permission and family members acompaning us. Still think about her but not sure she could live outside of thailand in

the nomadic style I would like to do for a few years. I yearn to live in a more rural moderate climate area also, maybe land of 10,000 lakes or in the region, part time at least, been buying some toys recently.

Like you I had friends that lived in Thailand and lived as they would back home and spend like it. Also had locals that

were like family with businesses. I also have my eyes open enough that I see the local and foreign society is not what

I am looking for as I would not choose to live around ( in the same city or area) back home when I retire.

Anyways talk is cheap and seems the majority of Thailand foreigners are just such now days.

IF I wanted it to feel or be like Australia I would choose Thailand or Philippines, enough of them in both places

as far as people go. Don't like Thailand or the feel it gives of being a welfare state for desperate foreigners.

LOS

your desperation is showing

I second that. Sure there are some lower-class foreigners here but they are not in the majority.

I retired at 48 in the US. Was about to buy a home on a golf course (#1 fairway ) but decided to spend a couple of months here. I liked it so I came back and have been here 2 years.

The farang I hang with play golf, poker, etc........drive nice cars and most have nice homes or rent a decent place. They eat well and stay active. Sound like we're desperate?

Perhaps you were hanging with the wrong people.

I think you were burned big-time by a Thai lady; your posts reek of it. Am I wrong?

Edited June 14, 2007 by Khun ?

[jdinasia]

I had a house in Thailand by a golf course that cost a few mil baht, also bought my parents house by golf course back home

with weather similar to Thailand. I have been looking in Central america now at a few houses by golf course one on the 16th fairway, but as experience taught me, live somewhere first a year or two before buying. I still receive a about 80K baht a month for my house in Thailand that I sold.

Only one girl in Thailand that would interest me residing with, whom also was my caddy for several years.

Relationship was not allowed until married. In her 30's never had a boyfriend and would not go for a meal without her fathers

permission and family members acompaning us. Still think about her but not sure she could live outside of thailand in

the nomadic style I would like to do for a few years. I yearn to live in a more rural moderate climate area also, maybe land of 10,000 lakes or in the region, part time at least, been buying some toys recently.

Like you I had friends that lived in Thailand and lived as they would back home and spend like it. Also had locals that

were like family with businesses. I also have my eyes open enough that I see the local and foreign society is not what

I am looking for as I would not choose to live around ( in the same city or area) back home when I retire.

Anyways talk is cheap and seems the majority of Thailand foreigners are just such now days.

IF I wanted it to feel or be like Australia I would choose Thailand or Philippines, enough of them in both places

as far as people go. Don't like Thailand or the feel it gives of being a welfare state for desperate foreigners.

LOS

your desperation is showing

I second that. Sure there are some lower-class foreigners here but they are not in the majority.

I retired at 48 in the US. Was about to buy a home on a golf course (#1 fairway ) but decided to spend a couple of months here. I liked it so I came back and have been here 2 years.

The farang I hang with play golf, poker, etc........drive nice cars and most have nice homes or rent a decent place. They eat well and stay active. Sound like we're desperate?

Perhaps you were hanging with the wrong people.

I think you were burned big-time by a Thai lady; your posts reek of it. Am I wrong?

I think you nailed it in one ... burned huge .... so now haunts the forums like a vengeful ghost Thankfully .... it's the kind of ghost that just moans ... and has no substance

[Khun ?]

Yep burned very bad, so bad I never sat in Thailand with nothing better to do than one liners on message boards.

Is it that boring in Kamala, cess pit of Phuket.

[jdinasia]

Yep burned very bad, so bad I never sat in Thailand with nothing better to do than one liners on message boards.

Is it that boring in Kamala, cess pit of Phuket.

Yet another place you have not been I see

Again you did get something correct .... I am in Thailand ... a place you said you would never return to

[Khun ?]

You could be right, been to a few beaches down there and from what I remember being mentioned about Kamala

it is the low rent district with alot of crime. Must be rain season, as for sure a person of your stature would have something better to do than be in Thailand reading message boards if you are at all there. I am just bored at work but that could be worse, like in Thailand broke with nothing better to do than read message boards trying to save some coin for a few brews

for the week.

Yep burned very bad, so bad I never sat in Thailand with nothing better to do than one liners on message boards.

Is it that boring in Kamala, cess pit of Phuket.

Yet another place you have not been I see

Again you did get something correct .... I am in Thailand ... a place you said you would never return to

[jdinasia]

You could be right, been to a few beaches down there and from what I remember being mentioned about Kamala

it is the low rent district with alot of crime. Must be rain season, as for sure a person of your stature would have something better to do than be in Thailand reading message boards if you are at all there. I am just bored at work but that could be worse, like in Thailand broke with nothing better to do than read message boards trying to save some coin for a few brews

for the week.

Yep burned very bad, so bad I never sat in Thailand with nothing better to do than one liners on message boards.

Is it that boring in Kamala, cess pit of Phuket.

Yet another place you have not been I see

Again you did get something correct .... I am in Thailand ... a place you said you would never return to

again ... you obviously haven't been to Kamala .... didn't get even one thing right

but I am in Thailand, a place you vowed never to return to <I am in BKK at the condo right now though >

you must have many unresolved issues to be a loud ghost on a webboard for a place you will never return to! How much did you lose here?

[Khun ?]

It is not what you lose, but don't lose, sanity for the most part.

Lucky you being in bkk, I guess in a few hours traffic will subside so you can make it to teach another class.

Sure wish I was in a metropolis of 10+ mil, it would be top of my list where to have a condo in a foreign country.

Kamala sure that isn't were they find dismembered bodies floating around from time to time

Edited June 14, 2007 by Khun ?

[bendix]

It's wonderful seeing Khun squirm out of the 'how much did you get burnt for to make you so bitter' question.

:-)

[Jimjim]

This discussion doesn't seem to have anything to do with the original topic.

[chinthee]

It's wonderful seeing Khun squirm out of the 'how much did you get burnt for to make you so bitter' question.

:-)

I live in both Kamala and BKK too. I'll think of Khun? as I gaze at the sunset over the ocean sipping a cool drink. The only dismembered bodies I remember were the ones I swam next to on Boxing day 2004. sour grapes.

[Khun ?]

With exchange rate differences made a bit off the house and getting better each month.

A few $10K trusting one of thailands best farang investment advisors. I couldn't wait the 10+ years it would of taken to

return to break even. Better to sell off and not let their commisions continue. It was more about what they would not get than me waiting on a profit on mutual funds.

Drop in a bucket but does confirm what the foreign is about in Thailand, work for 20% of back home wages

as long as they are in Thailand.

How much is your wages compared to back home for similar work. For sure bkk apartment living must be

worth it. Think it would be great for younger people but brain dead for anyone over early 30's.

[Khun ?]

Don't think of me while in Thailand, I done many years there and enjoyed much of it.

Can do without it and now like to converse with the rose colored glasses crowd on how the thais really want them and they are

so needed for the poor people of thailand. Seems the ones calling the shots are not so impressed though.

They may even start requiring degrees for teachers would that be something.

It's wonderful seeing Khun squirm out of the 'how much did you get burnt for to make you so bitter' question.

:-)

I live in both Kamala and BKK too. I'll think of Khun? as I gaze at the sunset over the ocean sipping a cool drink. The only dismembered bodies I remember were the ones I swam next to on Boxing day 2004. sour grapes.

[bendix]

Drop in a bucket but does confirm what the foreign is about in Thailand, work for 20% of back home wages

as long as they are in Thailand.

How much is your wages compared to back home for similar work.

I came here for a promotion. My salary here is the same here as if I choose to be located in Australia, Singapore, HK, Tokyo or any of the places we have offices in Asia.

In terms of spending power and - more important to me - savings potential, considerably more, thank you very much.

Paradise unbounded, old boy. Paradise unbounded.

[jdinasia]

It is not what you lose, but don't lose, sanity for the most part.

Lucky you being in bkk, I guess in a few hours traffic will subside so you can make it to teach another class.

Sure wish I was in a metropolis of 10+ mil, it would be top of my list where to have a condo in a foreign country.

Kamala sure that isn't were they find dismembered bodies floating around from time to time

LOL ... they culled Khun? out <re the topic>

I don't teach in fact I have never worked in Thailand

But it is nice to see that a great beach village doesn't measure up to Khun?'s standards ... nor does Bangkok

Tonight will be cocktails on the rooftop of the condo .... tmw will be sunset on the beach Saturday will be a boatride with some friends and some time riding the motorcycle around the island! Sunday is the pool volleyball game! I'll think of Khun? slaving away at work whilst relaxing in a place I love <and a place I've never gotten stung/burnt badly in!>

<and no Khun? ... no dismembered bodies in Kamala .... but since you are NOT returning to Thailand and only are in here to deal with your unresolved issues over your failure to cope, and getting burnt badly .... please tell us again WHY these unresolved issues drive you back to the THAILAND webboards time and time again when you said you would never return!?>

[Khun ?]

Yeah the I love thailand crowd, cannot handle someone opening their eyes to the new Thailand.

It'll always be great for those that didn't do so well back home.

No one who can live well away from it would really be fooled or put up with it now days much less care.

Must be a hard pill to swallow living in a society that will never be anything but a third rate citizen disposable

when they choice you to be even by ones own family. Don't be worth more dead than alive more than a few K baht

for some.

This discussion doesn't seem to have anything to do with the original topic.

[Khun ?]

Sounds great, you done well, enjoy the drinks tonight and rest of week on top of the garage, hope you have feathers.

They will do and say anything to make all seem great.

http://www.wunderground.com/global/stations/48565.html

I like this heat index must be a smoker with the great UV

Humidity: 70%

Dew Point: 75 °F / 24 °C

Wind: 10 mph / 17 km/h / 4.6 m/s from the West

Pressure: 29.71 in / 1006 hPa (Steady)

Heat Index: 95 °F / 35 °C

Visibility: 6.2 miles / 10.0 kilometers

UV: 4 out of 16

Clouds: Few 2000 ft / 609 m

Mostly Cloudy 30000 ft / 9144 m

(Above Ground Level)

It is not what you lose, but don't lose, sanity for the most part.

Lucky you being in bkk, I guess in a few hours traffic will subside so you can make it to teach another class.

Sure wish I was in a metropolis of 10+ mil, it would be top of my list where to have a condo in a foreign country.

Kamala sure that isn't were they find dismembered bodies floating around from time to time

LOL ... they culled Khun? out <re the topic>

I don't teach in fact I have never worked in Thailand

But it is nice to see that a great beach village doesn't measure up to Khun?'s standards ... nor does Bangkok

Tonight will be cocktails on the rooftop of the condo .... tmw will be sunset on the beach Saturday will be a boatride with some friends and some time riding the motorcycle around the island! Sunday is the pool volleyball game! I'll think of Khun? slaving away at work whilst relaxing in a place I love <and a place I've never gotten stung/burnt badly in!>

<and no Khun? ... no dismembered bodies in Kamala .... but since you are NOT returning to Thailand and only are in here to deal with your unresolved issues over your failure to cope, and getting burnt badly .... please tell us again WHY these unresolved issues drive you back to the THAILAND webboards time and time again when you said you would never return!?>

Edited June 14, 2007 by Khun ?

[lopburi3]

As said people have had ample opportunity to express there views and it now seems to be getting personal; so it appears to be a good time to end it - Thread Closed.