Thai Higher-ups Want To Cull Out Undesirables -

[LoveDaBlues]

JR Texas to Fred Sanford: I agree with you, partially, about Bendix and LoveDaBlues. They certainly come across as being selfish and unsympathetic....but also informed (even though I disagree with most of what they say).

When I read statements like they have made, I try to ask myself what I would have to believe to make similar statements.

I think both Bendix and LoveDaBlues are informed by a belief that tells them that the individual is the only one responsible for reality. Bendix, for example, probably believes that if he has a problem it is because of him and the actions he has taken..........or that if he is rich, it is because of his decisions (nothing to do with serendipity or the hard work of others, etc).

So, when people "complain" about the visa rules, he thinks they have not taken proper action at the level of the individual....that they are lazy, or ill informed, etc. So, it becomes hard, if not impossible, for him to accept the premise that individuals are often influenced by powerful forces/events that thwart any individual efforts to address them.

I fully agree with JR Texas and Stanford. For example when someone tells me he has no driver licence in Thailand and need to run away if the police try to stop him I encourage and advice him on how to get one instead of walking away and think about how much smarter than that person I am.

When posting here I mean to share some experience and not to whine and feel bad all day about how miserable the situation is. If any post can help someone avoiding or solve trouble than the board has done a good job.

I guess I should have related more of my tale about my brief encounter with the guy from the states. I rather thought my point was obvious but I guess not.

When he was railing against the Thai cops he says, "I left America to get away from the cops, now I find the same thing here". He didn't need me to tell him how to get a motorcycle DL. After 8 years living in Thailand and being currently married to a Thai he could easily go and get his DL. He's just a lazy fart. The whole point of my post about this guy was he is one of those with the attitude that the laws don't apply to him. IMHO this makes the rest of us who strive to follow the law in our host country look bad.

Actually, I don't have a problem if someone cares to drive without a DL. But don't bad-mouth a street cop who is just following orders to man a motorcycle check-point. And, if you get popped for no DL just pay the fine and don't bitch.

When I walked away from the guy I wasn't thinking about anything but his poor attitude. He really seemed upset and not really happy at all. I see others like this and wonder why they live here.

[Gary A]

I would suggest someone look at there extension number before they make half a million guesstimates for the number of holders. Mine were done in the middle of the year and Thai wife was way under 3,000 and for retirement is very low three digits (this is in Bangkok).

I worded that poorly. The half million baht a year on average is what I would guess the retirees spend. And, no, I have no idea how many farangs are retired here.

[wolfmanjack]

I would suggest someone look at there extension number before they make half a million guesstimates for the number of holders. Mine were done in the middle of the year and Thai wife was way under 3,000 and for retirement is very low three digits (this is in Bangkok).

I don't have an extension # since I do not extend my visa. I get a new one very 15 months. I was estimating based on the number of Brits that are here. This # was obtained from the BBC that used various gov data like where the Social security checks get sent to.

I was also not only counting retired people but all types. I was using the estimate of 1 million retired americans in mexico, the immigration in Chiang Mai saying Americans were the largest number followed by the japanese, and the American Chamber of Commerce having 700 plus businesses as members to estimate that there are around 100,000 americans here. I don't think that this is over estimating too much keeping in mind the 41,000 Brits here.

Also I have asked others to put in their guess.

Lopburi, How many would you say ?

Edited June 11, 2007 by wolfmanjack

[LoveDaBlues]

I bumped into a guy from the states a while back. After the usual chit-chat (where you from, etc.) he starts railing against the local cops. He says, "I never stop when I'm on my motorcycle and they wave me over". Why I ask? Because I don't have a motorcycle license. Oh, how long have you lived here I say? Eight years was his reply. I softly say, "well I've some shopping to do.....see you later".......and I drift away.......

Mr. Rosner is pleased to be the outlaw biker without a bike. Mr. Rosner also does not have a driver's license after being here for almost 1 year. Mr. Rosner wonders out loud if he is the type that should be tossed out of Thailand based on the above statement. Mr. Rosner's family would be less than pleased.

Mrs. Rosner, a Thai National also has no license but she readilly admits it does help when stopped by criminal elements of the police for shakedown money.

It seems a few posters missed my point entirely; sorry if my post was misleading.

I didn't mean to imply that the guy should be kicked out for not having a DL; that would be ridiculous of course. His whole attitude was one of "I have money, I'm an American, the laws don't apply to me". I can't stand those types.

I don't give a rats-rear if someone has a DL or not. The point is, a person should not bad-mouth the cops who might give them a ticket because THEY CHOOSE NOT TO GET A DL. This IMO illustrates perfectly the root cause of many farang 'gripes'; they bring the problems on themselves!

BTW, I chose to get away from this guy because I don't associate with anyone (farang or Thai) with a bad attitude and a host of problems caused by "others" (in this case the cops).

I feel as a guest in a foreign country I should make an effort to comply with the laws. This is just my opinion of course and others may see things differently.

[tijnebijn]

I went a bit wondering.When walking or driving in the city (chiangmai),when count it all together there are not that many farang staying ,comparing with how much thais you see.I mean to say maybe there are many more expats in % in Thailand then for example my homecountry the netherlands.But when walking on the streets in Amsterdam or even a semi big city,1 on 3 is from foreign originate.If the same rules count from the original foreigners in Holland with thailand there probably would be a over 30% of expats in Holland.ofcourse this is not the case ,because they have the oppertunity to be Dutch,dutch husband/wife or many reasons in the past why it is given.My point is, everywhere I go ,in comparison with thais ,there are very limited farang walking between them,and many of those are also tourists.So in this modern time of technology and transport whatsoever,what is the problem that there seem to many farang staying in Thailand?I think there aren't!Thailand should take the oppertunity of these farang willingly spending there money,the other way around for example who saty in Holland,we give them money when they do not have any....here the expats do it freely.....Just went through my mind in comparison.

[LoveDaBlues]

A reminder that the forum is for the discussion of issues - not posters.

JR Texas: Think the above post was meant for me.

Sorry in advance to Bendix and LoveDaBlues.......should have been a bit more careful.

I did not say "you are that way" but only meant "because of what I think your beliefs are, your statements sometimes come across as being........" Also, paid you a compliment......many successful people do think in a similar way.

Best wishes from JR (Sometimes Stupid. Rude and Arrogant) Texas

No need to apoligize to me; I just consider the source.....you're from Texas.

[JimmyCA]

I have never met an "undesirables" who is more undesirable then Thai Higher Ups.

Probably jealousy

[tijnebijn]

I have never met an "undesirables" who is more undesirable then Thai Higher Ups.

Probably jealousy

Thats for sure!

[LoveDaBlues]

slightly off topic but here's an example of the type of farang that does not belong here IMHO:

I bumped into a guy from the states a while back. After the usual chit-chat (where you from, etc.) he starts railing against the local cops. He says, "I never stop when I'm on my motorcycle and they wave me over". Why I ask? Because I don't have a motorcycle license. Oh, how long have you lived here I say? Eight years was his reply. I softly say, "well I've some shopping to do.....see you later".......and I drift away.......

You know why the cops pull foreigners over on the road don't you? They're not interested in licences, just a quick payment. I quite understand that guy's reluctance to pull over.

I understand that's the norm in Pattaya. Another reason I won't live there or any other tourist area.

In Udon Thani there are police check-points at various places downtown. They wave over ANYONE with no helmet (instant fine; a revenue maker). They also randomly wave over helmeted motorcycle drivers and check for proper stickers and DL (another revenue maker). It's pretty simple; if you live in Udon, drive a bike, and don't want a ticket just get legal.

This guy wasn't legal and was taking it out on the street cops who were just following orders from a higher up.

I never did ask him why he had problems with the cops in the states; they were probably picking on him too.

[LoveDaBlues]

went there most of 20 years when not working. Married one but not the right one, if there is one.

Bought a house there but never lived in it and sold it rather than worry about it being empty.

Just decided after my last couple month vacations there it was not in my future plannings

anymore. The place really turned to crap after the 97 crash, made it to easy for all the trash

from other countries to show up. Didn't work most of my life to live with it like it is now days

as I do not need to live on a budget and much better places to be. Big world, much life to live

and things to see. I know it does not deserve to see any of my baht any longer.

I no longer help the money request I get from there, I put them on ignore now.

What does the statement in red mean? Everyone has to live on a budget, even a guy that makes 100K per month.

The statement in blue suggests to me that someone was badly burned and now holds it against the entire country.

[Fred Sanford]

Up to him

[Khun ?]

It means I get plenty of request for help, nothing more, nothing less and it is not always a thai asking but the majority

is. As in central america I donate to needy families and causes and pay school tuition for some that will put it to good use. In the last 10 years specially, I spend on average over 150K baht a week during a 2 or 3 month trip. Much of it is in help to others and taking trips with thai friends and families that otherwise could not do so.

I now feel there is more and better needs for the unfortunate where I grew up and other places I will be visiting.

As the visa rules are indicating Thailand is a magnet for lower quality foreigners for good reason, the two societies mesh well. Looks as if the red carpet has been rolled up finally and a step in the right direction is being taken.

Let them spend the next 10 years cleaning out the place and maybe I will feel a return is in order.

I despise the foreigners that was given great opportunity in their home land and squandered it needlessly

and now are dominating the foreign population of thailand with hate everything from where they come because of their own failures.

I got better things to do than hear garbage about how bad it is back home from these losers.

I am glad Thailand is just to their liking and maybe the two need each other, I don't.

[Naam]

As in central america I donate to needy families and causes and pay school tuition for some that will put it to good use. In the last 10 years specially, I spend on average over 150K baht a week during a 2 or 3 month trip.

what currency? Zimbabwe Dollars?

[jdinasia]

Let them spend the next 10 years cleaning out the place and maybe I will feel a return is in order.

I despise the foreigners that was given great opportunity in their home land and squandered it needlessly

and now are dominating the foreign population of thailand with hate everything from where they come because of their own failures.

I got better things to do than hear garbage about how bad it is back home from these losers.

I am glad Thailand is just to their liking and maybe the two need each other, I don't.

I see you finally switched your location

But still you are here! Can't get enough of a land where you could not cope?

I don't think Thailand will be holding its collective breath for you to return in 10 years .... and I don't think that just because you don't like the facts of life that they will change

again I lived in Central America for some time and visited even more ... yet have no need to go on webforums and slag off on a place where I could not cope

[JR Texas]

Let them spend the next 10 years cleaning out the place and maybe I will feel a return is in order.

I despise the foreigners that was given great opportunity in their home land and squandered it needlessly

and now are dominating the foreign population of thailand with hate everything from where they come because of their own failures.

I got better things to do than hear garbage about how bad it is back home from these losers.

I am glad Thailand is just to their liking and maybe the two need each other, I don't.

I see you finally switched your location

But still you are here! Can't get enough of a land where you could not cope?

I don't think Thailand will be holding its collective breath for you to return in 10 years .... and I don't think that just because you don't like the facts of life that they will change

again I lived in Central America for some time and visited even more ... yet have no need to go on webforums and slag off on a place where I could not cope

JR Texas to Khun?: It is off topic, but I would like to know where you are now. Did you say Ecuador? If so, some readers might like to know what the visa/business rules are in Ecuador. I read that foreigners are treated well there and have almost equal rights as local citizens......but not sure.

This is becoming a big issue here......the visa/business rules are making it difficult for many expats to stay here and are hurting foreign investment in the country. Some expats in Thailand are looking for other places to ruin.......ha ha ha ha.

Is Ecuador trying to cull out undesirables? Panama? Costa Rica?

[Khun ?]

I am in Asia have been for much the last couple decades, actually since early 80's much of the time.

Still have not found that horizontal dexterior.

Equador and Uraguay was recommended by other tourist I met in asia recently.

They lived in Argentina and liked it, they did not think much of asia other than, you get what you pay for and it is alright for a few weeks.

Yes I met many in Central america that was thinking of moving to Thailand for the cheap women

and their income was quite meager to be any place other than work. Hope they do fine and like the new rules.

You only need to cope with something when no better choice is available, not the case with Thailand.

Yes work is enjoyable and coping with it when you don't need it is also fine, better to much than not enough.

I don't need Thailand to make me feel as I am in a European or Australian enclave. I spent a decade or better in

Europe already.

I have not been taking too much time from work as retirement is soon and best to get as much invested

while the markets are giving great returns with safe investments. Yes farm land in Zimbabwe I heard is cheap in any currency at present.

From people I met that lived in Panama they liked a cooler temp but liked an almost 6 figure income. Will see myself

soon but if it is weather like Thailand forget it, stinky hot ARRRGGGGHHH.

The travel and time away from work has not given me the time needed to see many places in other regions in the last few years, just short couple week trips and a 3 month trip.

Have some friends that live part time in Mexico in RV's and plan a motoring vacation soon as I retire in the next 18 months. Route 66 to a connection of Pan American highway.

Leave RV in Costa Rica once central america is completed, friend developing 250 acres that can use it for office while I spend 6 months looking around S. America.

You all should try a RV trip through Asia hahaha

[ludosiam]

I have never met an "undesirables" who is more undesirable then Thai Higher Ups.

Probably jealousy

Thats for sure!

To be honest I haven't met that many "higher ups" but some foreign low lives who I sure like to avoid anywhere in the world.

[Skip]

In reference to retirement in Panama. I am retired and became a resident of Panama. You need to have an income of $500.00 US. An extra $100.00 for spouse and each child if appropriate. This is a monthly required income. You take this and a few forms to a lawyer and they submit your paperwork. The lawyer costs is from $500.00 to $1500.00. The norm is about $700.00. In a month or so you receive your residency and then you pay $100.00 every 2 years for your multi-entry visa. Thats it. You are isssued a jubilado card which you use for discounts. Example: 25% of monthly electric, water bills. 30-50% of hotel rooms. 25% off meals and many more. They use the US dollar in Panama and it is nice but getting more and more people each day. A working knowledge of Spanish is helpful but not necessary. You can live cheaply there but not as cheaply as in Thailand. I hope this helped.

Edited June 12, 2007 by Skip

[bendix]

I thought I was objectionable and arrogant. I'm ashamed Khun makes me like almost nice by comparison. I must try harder or - who was it - some poster in this forum takes the 'most hated poster' award away from me and gives to our chum Khun.

[tijnebijn]

I thought I was objectionable and arrogant. I'm ashamed Khun makes me like almost nice by comparison. I must try harder or - who was it - some poster in this forum takes the 'most hated poster' award away from me and gives to our chum Khun.

That poster could give it to him,but do not worrie Bendix.I think you are both still equal most irritating.So you will have to share it At least you are not talking about the friend who knows the friend what is a friend of Khun's,like in his stories.........

[Lite Beer]

I thought I was objectionable and arrogant. I'm ashamed Khun makes me like almost nice by comparison. I must try harder or - who was it - some poster in this forum takes the 'most hated poster' award away from me and gives to our chum Khun.

Sorry Bendix, you are not the most hated poster, as I happen to think that you and Love Da Blues and a couple of others are the only ones talking any sense on yet another paranoid wrist cutting thread.

[Khun ?]

Nothing nice about not being good enough to reside in a cheap developing country.

Farangs coming from countries that have pensions, social security and plenty other sick, lame or lazy ways

to produce a income and also wages 10 times the average thai, should not have a hard time meeting requirements. Who is to blame if one does. I don't care who likes Thailand or not, for each their own, no need to save face that is a thai taboo. Plenty of places to move on in life, choose another.

[JR Texas]

In reference to retirement in Panama. I am retired and became a resident of Panama. You need to have an income of $500.00 US. An extra $100.00 for spouse and each child if appropriate. This is a monthly required income. You take this and a few forms to a lawyer and they submit your paperwork. The lawyer costs is from $500.00 to $1500.00. The norm is about $700.00. In a month or so you receive your residency and then you pay $100.00 every 2 years for your multi-entry visa. Thats it. You are isssued a jubilado card which you use for discounts. Example: 25% of monthly electric, water bills. 30-50% of hotel rooms. 25% off meals and many more. They use the US dollar in Panama and it is nice but getting more and more people each day. A working knowledge of Spanish is helpful but not necessary. You can live cheaply there but not as cheaply as in Thailand. I hope this helped.

JR Texas to Skip: Thanks so much for the info. on Panama..........I think it just might help many people who are totally frustrated with Thailand's nutty, sick, twisted, xenophobic visa rules and regulations.

[samran]

In reference to retirement in Panama. I am retired and became a resident of Panama. You need to have an income of $500.00 US. An extra $100.00 for spouse and each child if appropriate. This is a monthly required income. You take this and a few forms to a lawyer and they submit your paperwork. The lawyer costs is from $500.00 to $1500.00. The norm is about $700.00. In a month or so you receive your residency and then you pay $100.00 every 2 years for your multi-entry visa. Thats it. You are isssued a jubilado card which you use for discounts. Example: 25% of monthly electric, water bills. 30-50% of hotel rooms. 25% off meals and many more. They use the US dollar in Panama and it is nice but getting more and more people each day. A working knowledge of Spanish is helpful but not necessary. You can live cheaply there but not as cheaply as in Thailand. I hope this helped.

JR Texas to Skip: Thanks so much for the info. on Panama..........I think it just might help many people who are totally frustrated with Thailand's nutty, sick, twisted, xenophobic visa rules and regulations.

Hey, here is another suggestion for a country which idoesn't have "nutty, sick, twisted, xenophobic visa rules and regulations". Australia. Thats right, takes about 100,000 new residents every year plus another 100,000 work permit holders. Definetly a country which needs and loves migrants.

All yours for a A$750,000 transfer to Australia and if you can guarantee another A$65,000 per year of income stream. Limited work rights granted with said visa - which you'll likely get taxed on as Australian resident for tax purposes. $1AUD=US$0.84

What you say? Surely this can't be right? How can a country which is not ""nutty, sick, twisted and xenophobic" do such a thing to an honest schmo like me?

Well, cause smart, economically literate, forward looking countries that have a bit of experience with migration that aren't tinpot backwaters like Panama (canal, canal for sale, anyone want a canal??...we are desperate for foreign income here, being a 30 mile wide strip of land here with big ditch running through it and not much else...), know that retirees from a nation building perspective, aren't productive, add very little to the share of growth of GDP and drain more resources (on average) than they bring in. So unless they can cover their costs, they usually aren't welcome.

No, the reference point for Thailand should not, and never be, Panama.

Panama...rockin' Van Halen song though.

[JR Texas]

In reference to retirement in Panama. I am retired and became a resident of Panama. You need to have an income of $500.00 US. An extra $100.00 for spouse and each child if appropriate. This is a monthly required income. You take this and a few forms to a lawyer and they submit your paperwork. The lawyer costs is from $500.00 to $1500.00. The norm is about $700.00. In a month or so you receive your residency and then you pay $100.00 every 2 years for your multi-entry visa. Thats it. You are isssued a jubilado card which you use for discounts. Example: 25% of monthly electric, water bills. 30-50% of hotel rooms. 25% off meals and many more. They use the US dollar in Panama and it is nice but getting more and more people each day. A working knowledge of Spanish is helpful but not necessary. You can live cheaply there but not as cheaply as in Thailand. I hope this helped.

JR Texas to Skip: Thanks so much for the info. on Panama..........I think it just might help many people who are totally frustrated with Thailand's nutty, sick, twisted, xenophobic visa rules and regulations.

Hey, here is another suggestion for a country which idoesn't have "nutty, sick, twisted, xenophobic visa rules and regulations". Australia. Thats right, takes about 100,000 new residents every year plus another 100,000 work permit holders. Definetly a country which needs and loves migrants.

All yours for a A$750,000 transfer to Australia and if you can guarantee another A$65,000 per year of income stream. Limited work rights granted with said visa - which you'll likely get taxed on as Australian resident for tax purposes. $1AUD=US$0.84

What you say? Surely this can't be right? How can a country which is not ""nutty, sick, twisted and xenophobic" do such a thing to an honest schmo like me?

Well, cause smart, economically literate, forward looking countries that have a bit of experience with migration that aren't tinpot backwaters like Panama (canal, canal for sale, anyone want a canal??...we are desperate for foreign income here, being a 30 mile wide strip of land here with big ditch running through it and not much else...), know that retirees from a nation building perspective, aren't productive, add very little to the share of growth of GDP and drain more resources (on average) than they bring in. So unless they can cover their costs, they usually aren't welcome.

No, the reference point for Thailand should not, and never be, Panama.

Panama...rockin' Van Halen song though.

JR Texas to Samran: Trying to sell real estate in Thailand? Actually, Panama and Thailand are excellent for comparison purposes.......comparing Thailand to Australia/USA/UK is not really informative.

I think a mountain chain running down the middle of a country with two oceans on either side of it is a bit attractive. The Pensianado (sorry, long time since I took Spanish) program is 500 US dollars per month........easy system.

I just looked up a few stats: Index of Economic Freedom 2006 (Thailand scores 73 and Panama scores 50......Panama wins.....even Cambodia scored better than Thailand with a score of 69); Corruption Index 2005 (Thailand wins with a score of 49 to Panama's 54.....but remember this was taken in 2005....if taken today, who knows?); Quality of Life 2005 (Thailand wins with a score of 42 to Panama's 47........very close to each other and again, dated).

[Gary A]

Australia, WOW, that's the right place for Khun ?. That visa is only 20,548,697.948 baht. That's sure to keep out the riff raff low lifes that we suffer with.

[Khun ?]

IF I wanted it to feel or be like Australia I would choose Thailand or Philippines, enough of them in both places

as far as people go. Don't like Thailand or the feel it gives of being a welfare state for desperate foreigners.

LOS

[samran]

JR Texas to Samran: Trying to sell real estate in Thailand? Actually, Panama and Thailand are excellent for comparison purposes.......comparing Thailand to Australia/USA/UK is not really informative.

I think a mountain chain running down the middle of a country with two oceans on either side of it is a bit attractive. The Pensianado (sorry, long time since I took Spanish) program is 500 US dollars per month........easy system.

I just looked up a few stats: Index of Economic Freedom 2006 (Thailand scores 73 and Panama scores 50......Panama wins.....even Cambodia scored better than Thailand with a score of 69); Corruption Index 2005 (Thailand wins with a score of 49 to Panama's 54.....but remember this was taken in 2005....if taken today, who knows?); Quality of Life 2005 (Thailand wins with a score of 42 to Panama's 47........very close to each other and again, dated).

Thailand according to 2005 WB stats was the worlds 35th largest economy, bigger than NZ or Singapore, and knocking on the door of Portugal, and 'old' EU country. Its economy is 12 times the size of lil old panama dwindling down there at 87 with the likes of heavyweights such as Iceland, Yemen and Trinadad. Even using GNI, then Thailand poos from a great hight on Panama (of course someone is going to come in now and ruin my argument with gini-coefficent data...). So who is tinpot, and who isn't?

My point is, that why should Thailand take lessons on matters such as these from Panama, which has basically dropped its pants in terms of trying to welcome, well basically, ANYONE, versus Thailand who have an ethos of "come, you are most welcome, but pay your way". And I might note, paying your way doesn't mean surviving, it means being able to pay for the true cost (both monetary and non-monetary) that you incur on a country.

As for the x10 money multiplier arugment before, nice try, but no cigar. I can't remember the source, but the rule of thumb in OZ is that skilled immigrants, who work, add value to the economy via increase productivity (and helping to keep real wages down), who re-invest their earnings in the economy, and who create domestic demand - well this type of productive migrant creates might add about 0.1 - 0.2 of an extra job for a local. So, 10 migrants will create one extra domestic job.

For migrants who don't work, remember any income you bring in is counted as exports on the national accounts. Imports have to be subtracted out before your contribution to GDP can be counted in real terms (remember, you may bring money in, which is 'multiplied') but you have take way the money which is sent offshore to pay for imports - which won't be multiplied. I'd suggest, looking at export stats, taking away import stats, and them some teeny tiny percentage maybe 0.001% would represent the income people bring in to the Thai economy.

[jdinasia]

IF I wanted it to feel or be like Australia I would choose Thailand or Philippines, enough of them in both places

as far as people go. Don't like Thailand or the feel it gives of being a welfare state for desperate foreigners.

LOS

your desperation is showing

[JR Texas]

JR Texas to Samran: Trying to sell real estate in Thailand? Actually, Panama and Thailand are excellent for comparison purposes.......comparing Thailand to Australia/USA/UK is not really informative.

I think a mountain chain running down the middle of a country with two oceans on either side of it is a bit attractive. The Pensianado (sorry, long time since I took Spanish) program is 500 US dollars per month........easy system.

I just looked up a few stats: Index of Economic Freedom 2006 (Thailand scores 73 and Panama scores 50......Panama wins.....even Cambodia scored better than Thailand with a score of 69); Corruption Index 2005 (Thailand wins with a score of 49 to Panama's 54.....but remember this was taken in 2005....if taken today, who knows?); Quality of Life 2005 (Thailand wins with a score of 42 to Panama's 47........very close to each other and again, dated).

Thailand according to 2005 WB stats was the worlds 35th largest economy, bigger than NZ or Singapore, and knocking on the door of Portugal, and 'old' EU country. Its economy is 12 times the size of lil old panama dwindling down there at 87 with the likes of heavyweights such as Iceland, Yemen and Trinadad. Even using GNI, then Thailand poos from a great hight on Panama (of course someone is going to come in now and ruin my argument with gini-coefficent data...). So who is tinpot, and who isn't?

My point is, that why should Thailand take lessons on matters such as these from Panama, which has basically dropped its pants in terms of trying to welcome, well basically, ANYONE, versus Thailand who have an ethos of "come, you are most welcome, but pay your way". And I might note, paying your way doesn't mean surviving, it means being able to pay for the true cost (both monetary and non-monetary) that you incur on a country.

As for the x10 money multiplier arugment before, nice try, but no cigar. I can't remember the source, but the rule of thumb in OZ is that skilled immigrants, who work, add value to the economy via increase productivity (and helping to keep real wages down), who re-invest their earnings in the economy, and who create domestic demand - well this type of productive migrant creates might add about 0.1 - 0.2 of an extra job for a local. So, 10 migrants will create one extra domestic job.

For migrants who don't work, remember any income you bring in is counted as exports on the national accounts. Imports have to be subtracted out before your contribution to GDP can be counted in real terms (remember, you may bring money in, which is 'multiplied') but you have take way the money which is sent offshore to pay for imports - which won't be multiplied. I'd suggest, looking at export stats, taking away import stats, and them some teeny tiny percentage maybe 0.001% would represent the income people bring in to the Thai economy.

JR Texas: Point is taken BUT, the size of an economy does not always correlate with the quality of life. I can think of many small countries with small economies that I would much rather live in than Thailand. And we all know who owns virtually everything in Thailand........right? Wages, in this world, are also kept down because of the global labor supply problem....too many people searching for too few quality jobs (something that is never discussed by politicians or the mainstream mass media because it threatens MNCs). The earlier post was useful because the guy lives in Panama and wanted to let us know about how easy it is to retire there......he also stated that too many people were coming there.......sounds like Panama is attracting expats and not making things difficult for them or treating them like shit. But all of this is off topic.