My Thai friend wants to hire me - but would it be possible for him to get me a non-b visa + work permit?

[noodleslayer]

Hi, I'm about to start an ED visa and study thai for 11 months. After that, in order to stay in Thailand, I'll want to switch to a non-b visa. I don't really want to teach English, but will do so if I have no other choice (I have a bachelor's degree, and I'm American). He is the owner of several businesses, including a luxury carwash, a nightclub, and a coffee shop. I know Thai law is strict about what jobs foreigners can/can't do which is why I'm asking here. Would it be possible for me to get a work permit + non-b visa if he were to hire me as a security guard, a DJ, or car washer?

 

@ubonjoe

[blackcab]

On 2/4/2022 at 10:40 PM, noodleslayer said:

Would it be possible for me to get a work permit + non-b visa if he were to hire me as a security guard, a DJ, or car washer?

 

Security guard: No

DJ: Maybe

Car washer: No

 

However, to get an extension of stay you will need to be paid 50,000 baht per month (or at least pay tax and social fund on this amount).

 

Your friend will also have to hire you through a limited company.

 

A non-B extension is one of the hardest extensions to get and it is a chore even in a completely genuine situation.

 

Foreigners who are not teaching are generally hired as professionals or experts in their field, which means management or subject matter specialists (or both).

 

There is zero chance of getting employed for a manual job as foreigners are prohibited from being employed in such jobs (with the exception of labour imported from neighbouring countries under special agreement).

[DrJoy]

@noodleslayer Check out the Non-B visa dox -

 

Completely filled in TM 7 form.  

Copies from following passport pages:

Detail page
Current visa/extension
Copy of all extensions from the last visa 
Last entry stamp
TM6 departure card
Up to date address registration

Passport size picture.

 

The company letters certifying as follows -
– Nature of business

– Reason or necessity in employing the applicant his / her position, salary and education background.

– Number of Thai and foreign employees detailed list.

Copies of work permit or receipt of work permit application.

Company's annual balance sheets.

The juristic persons Annual Income Tax Declaration Form (Form No.50) of the latest year and its receipt of payment.

All employees Monthly Income Tax Declaration Form (Form No.1 ) of the last 3 months and its receipt of payment.

 

All employees Monthly Social Security Benefit of the latest month and its receipt of payment.

 

The applicants Annual Income Tax Declaration Form (Form No.91) of the latest year and its receipt of payment.

The official letter that certify the registration of such juristic person.

Business Registration or Business License.

Value Added Tax Registration and list of share holders.

For those who operate export business, the documentary evidence clarifying its export activities is needed.

For those who operate tourism business, the documentary evidence clarifying its total number of tourist that brought in by the company is needed.

A map that indicate location of the Company.

Picture of all the company's employees at work

Picture of all company's employees in front of the office with clear name of the company showing

 

You need to be paid THB 50,000/- per month salary by the company, monthly tax on this salary will be approx THB 1802/- and SSB will be THB 750/-

[noodleslayer]

12 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

@noodleslayer Check out the Non-B visa dox -

 

Completely filled in TM 7 form.  

Copies from following passport pages:

Detail page
Current visa/extension
Copy of all extensions from the last visa 
Last entry stamp
TM6 departure card
Up to date address registration

Passport size picture.

 

The company letters certifying as follows -
– Nature of business

– Reason or necessity in employing the applicant his / her position, salary and education background.

– Number of Thai and foreign employees detailed list.

Copies of work permit or receipt of work permit application.

Company's annual balance sheets.

The juristic persons Annual Income Tax Declaration Form (Form No.50) of the latest year and its receipt of payment.

All employees Monthly Income Tax Declaration Form (Form No.1 ) of the last 3 months and its receipt of payment.

 

All employees Monthly Social Security Benefit of the latest month and its receipt of payment.

 

The applicants Annual Income Tax Declaration Form (Form No.91) of the latest year and its receipt of payment.

The official letter that certify the registration of such juristic person.

Business Registration or Business License.

Value Added Tax Registration and list of share holders.

For those who operate export business, the documentary evidence clarifying its export activities is needed.

For those who operate tourism business, the documentary evidence clarifying its total number of tourist that brought in by the company is needed.

A map that indicate location of the Company.

Picture of all the company's employees at work

Picture of all company's employees in front of the office with clear name of the company showing

 

You need to be paid THB 50,000/- per month salary by the company, monthly tax on this salary will be approx THB 1802/- and SSB will be THB 750/-

Thank you, does the job title matter? As another guy in this post said:

 

Security guard: No

DJ: Maybe

Car washer: No

 

If for example he paid me 50k thb per month at the luxury car wash and I paid 750 thb tax per month, would that suffice to get a non-b visa with a work permit, along with non-b visa extension?

[DrJoy]

4 minutes ago, noodleslayer said:

Thank you, does the job title matter? As another guy in this post said:

 

Security guard: No

DJ: Maybe

Car washer: No

 

If for example he paid me 50k thb per month at the luxury car wash and I paid 750 thb tax per month, would that suffice to get a non-b visa with a work permit, along with non-b visa extension?

Yes it matters.

 

 List of forbidden jobs for Non-Thais :

 

Prohibited occupations and minimum salary requirement

 

Under Thai Law foreigners are prohibited to engage in any of the following occupations -

 

Manual work

Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision

Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works

Wood carving

Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting

Shop attendance

Auction

Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions

Cutting or polishing jewelry

Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment

Cloth weaving by hand

Weaving of mate or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo pellicle

Making of Sa paper by hand

Lacquer ware making

Making of Thai musical instrument

Niello ware making

Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy

Bronze ware making

Making of Thai dolls

Making of mattress or quilt blanket

Alms bowls casting

Making of silk products by hand

Casting of Buddha images

Knife making

Making of paper of cloth umbrella

Shoemaking

Hat Making

Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work

Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising

Garments making

Pottery or ceramic ware making

Cigarette making by hand

Guide or conducting sightseeing tours

Street Vending

Type setting of Thai characters by hand

Drawing and twisting silk-thread by hand

Office or secretarial work

Legal or lawsuit services

 

Minimum Salary requirements-

 

Canada, Japan, United States: 60,000 THB
Europe (incl. UK) Australia: 50,000 THB
Hong Kong, Malaysia, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan: 45,000 THB
China, India, Indonesia, Middle East, Philippines: 35,000 THB
Africa, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam: 25,000 THB
Persons working for newspapers in Thailand: 20,000 THB

 

My mistake sorry , youre American so its 60,000 thb for you. However, the minimum salary does not apply to teachers.

 

Monthly tax will be thb 3042 + social security benefit thb 750, so total monthly exp = THB 3792/-

+

Work permit cost = thb 3100/- (annual)

+

Visa extension = thb 1900/- (annual)

 

[BKKTRAVELER]

You may have other options in 11 months.

 

Do your best to learn as much Thai as possible in the meantime, it might become useful to find a job here.

[BKKTRAVELER]

2 minutes ago, DrJoy said:

Yes it matters.

 

 List of forbidden jobs for Non-Thais :

 

Prohibited occupations and minimum salary requirement

 

Under Thai Law foreigners are prohibited to engage in any of the following occupations -

 

Manual work

Work in agriculture, animal husbandry, forestry or fishery excluding specialized work in each particular branch or farm supervision

Bricklaying, carpentry or other construction works

Wood carving

Driving mechanically propelled carried or driving non-mechanically-propelled vehicle, excluding international aircraft piloting

Shop attendance

Auction

Supervising, auditing or giving service in accountancy excluding internal auditing on occasions

Cutting or polishing jewelry

Haircutting, hairdressing or beauty treatment

Cloth weaving by hand

Weaving of mate or making products from reeds, rattan, hemp, straw or bamboo pellicle

Making of Sa paper by hand

Lacquer ware making

Making of Thai musical instrument

Niello ware making

Making of products from gold, silver or gold-copper alloy

Bronze ware making

Making of Thai dolls

Making of mattress or quilt blanket

Alms bowls casting

Making of silk products by hand

Casting of Buddha images

Knife making

Making of paper of cloth umbrella

Shoemaking

Hat Making

Brokerage or agency excluding brokerage or agency in international trade business

Engineering work in civil engineering branch concerning designing and calculation, organization, research, planning, testing, construction supervision or advising excluding specialized work

Architectural work concerning designing, drawing of plan, estimating, construction directing or advising

Garments making

Pottery or ceramic ware making

Cigarette making by hand

Guide or conducting sightseeing tours

Street Vending

Type setting of Thai characters by hand

Drawing and twisting silk-thread by hand

Office or secretarial work

Legal or lawsuit services

 

Minimum Salary requirements-

 

Canada, Japan, United States: 60,000 THB
Europe (incl. UK) Australia: 50,000 THB
Hong Kong, Malaysia, Korea, Singapore, Taiwan: 45,000 THB
China, India, Indonesia, Middle East, Philippines: 35,000 THB
Africa, Cambodia, Laos, Myanmar, Vietnam: 25,000 THB
Persons working for newspapers in Thailand: 20,000 THB

 

My mistake sorry , youre American so its 60,000 thb for you. However, the minimum salary does not apply to teachers.

 

Monthly tax will be thb 3042 + social security benefit thb 750, so total monthly exp = THB 3792/-

+

Work permit cost = thb 3100/- (annual)

+

Visa extension = thb 1900/- (annual)

 

It's sad that the minimum required salary doesn't apply to teachers. I guess it allows schools to underpay which doesn't seem fair.

[BritTim]

If the idea is for you to get a part time job, provided by a Thai friend, as a means to get a work permit and extension, then forget it. As someone else has already advised you, you need to show 60,000 baht a month minimum income (for which there will be around 3,000 withheld for tax and social fund). There are some other costs associated with getting this done also.

Edited February 4, 2022 by BritTim

[DrJoy]

19 minutes ago, noodleslayer said:

Thank you, does the job title matter? As another guy in this post said:

 

Security guard: No

DJ: Maybe

Car washer: No

 

If for example he paid me 50k thb per month at the luxury car wash and I paid 750 thb tax per month, would that suffice to get a non-b visa with a work permit, along with non-b visa extension?

He may hire you as an expert foreign chef in his cafe.

I am certain you will get a Work permit for that.

 

Work permit has to be applied first and on successful grant then only NON B will be granted.

The business needs to justify the reason to the Labor Dept for hiring foreigner.

If the reason is not satisfactory, they reject the work permit application.

[noodleslayer]

5 minutes ago, BKKTRAVELER said:

You may have other options in 11 months.

 

Do your best to learn as much Thai as possible in the meantime, it might become useful to find a job here.

I should be pretty much fluent after 11 months of classes. Could you explain what non-teaching jobs I could do once I am fluent in Thai? In case it matters, my bachelor's is in Management.

Edited February 4, 2022 by noodleslayer

[blackcab]

3 minutes ago, noodleslayer said:

I should be pretty much fluent after 11 months of classes. Could you explain what non-teaching jobs I could do once I am fluent in Thai? In case it matters, my bachelor's is in Management.

 

How many years management experience do you have, and what did you manage?

[BKKTRAVELER]

12 minutes ago, noodleslayer said:

I should be pretty much fluent after 11 months of classes. Could you explain what non-teaching jobs I could do once I am fluent in Thai? In case it matters, my bachelor's is in Management.

Well, I guess you could apply for a management position... If you go to a language school, don't think you'll be fluent in 11 months though. Classes are usually messy and poorly organized. It depends on your current level and most importantly your determination. If you can't write and read yet, there are little chances you'll be able to do so properly next year.

 

Getting private classes seem to get the best results if it helps. I had a few friends doing that for extended periods of time and they managed to speak fluently, write and read quite ok within a few years. They did work their butts off though.

 

One of them got a position at Big C and is paid well. The other left back to his home country as offers didn't match his expectations.

 

Hope you'll manage to find a good career path.

Edited February 4, 2022 by BKKTRAVELER

[noodleslayer]

1 minute ago, BKKTRAVELER said:

Well, I guess you could apply for a management job... If you go to a language school, don't think you'll be fluent in 11 months though. Classes are usually messy and poorly organized. It depends on your current level and most importantly your determination. If you can't write and read yet, there are little chances you'll be able to do so properly next year.

 

Getting private classes seem to get the best results if it helps. I had a few friends doing that for extended periods of time and they managed to speak fluently, write and read quite ok within a few years. They did work their butts off though.

 

One of them got a position at Big C and is paid well. The other left back to his home country as offers didn't match his expectations.

 

Hope you'll manage to find a good career path.

What country is your friend from that got the job at Big C, and do you know if he had a degree or not? Was his job entry-level like a cashier, or was it something higher up? You said he's paid well so I'm curious because apparently 60k thb is the minimum salary for US/Canadians to get a work visa in a non teaching job

[BKKTRAVELER]

5 minutes ago, noodleslayer said:

What country is your friend from that got the job at Big C, and do you know if he had a degree or not? Was his job entry-level like a cashier, or was it something higher up? You said he's paid well so I'm curious because apparently 60k thb is the minimum salary for US/Canadians to get a work visa in a non teaching job

He is French, working a management position. He is 42 yo and is paid 180k before taxes. He did work other jobs in Thailand before and had management experience for over 10 years.

 

From what I understand, his previous positions mattered more than his new Thai skills but it was an extra they considered positive.

 

Edit: I know he graduated from a French business school, so Master's degree.

Edited February 4, 2022 by BKKTRAVELER

[timendres]

Your friend could hire you as an IT manager tasked with researching his various companies and their needs for software systems to support the business, as well as managing the purchase, installation, and running of said systems. This is a job that will not be rejected by the labor department. As indicated by @DrJoy the process is mind numbing in its complexity and requirements for documentation. Last year's application for my extension of stay looked like a phone book, with almost 100 pages of documents. It is so difficult, I cannot imagine doing it without an agent. I spend, easily, over 50K baht per year on that process. Your friend will also learn to hate and dread the process, which you should consider.

[Guest Isaanlife]

2 hours ago, noodleslayer said:

I should be pretty much fluent after 11 months of classes. Could you explain what non-teaching jobs I could do once I am fluent in Thai? In case it matters, my bachelor's is in Management.

You won't be fluent in 11 months, sorry.

[Guest Isaanlife]

1 hour ago, SCOTT FITZGERSLD said:

one of the rules to hiring farang is that they must earn a minimum salary of 50,000 baht.

so if your friend will register your salary as 50K , than he will have to pay taxes and fees on

that amount, and will propably ask you to pay them.

on top on that, you will have to pay income tax on those 50,000 baht, even if you did not

get them, so it will proipably cost you 10,000-15,000 baht a month to get that bogus job.

60K for US

[BritTim]

12 minutes ago, Isaanlife said:

You won't be fluent in 11 months, sorry.

That is a fair bet, but not a certainty. Just taking classes would not get him there. However, I met a guy with a talent for languages who, after eight months total immersion, was fluent in speaking and reading, and able to write well enough to be understood, though not well enough for business purposes. Frankly, if someone is especially good at learning languages, taking lessons is not the way to go (except for, perhaps, a two week total immersion course to get started). The key is to place yourself in a situation where you spend all day, every day, among people who can only really communicate with you in Thai. Combine this with lots of Thai reading matter, a couple of the best dictionaries, and a good Thai grammar.

[bbko]

The level to what some people will lie, falsify, cheat, and stoop to, to stay in a country never ceases to amaze me.

[ubonjoe]

I just cleaned up this topic by removing 20 posts that were meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies to them. Time to get back on topic.

 

4 hours ago, Isaanlife said:

60K for US

It 50k baht for the US.

From the immigration order for extensions of stay.

 

[noodleslayer]

7 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I just cleaned up this topic by removing 20 posts that were meant to deflect the topic and the expected replies to them. Time to get back on topic.

 

It 50k baht for the US.

From the immigration order for extensions of stay.

 

Thanks @ubonjoeand could you answer my question regarding which job titles I'd be allowed to have if he were to hire me? If he were to say 50k salary for example at the luxury carwash, would I be allowed to do that & get a non-b visa and work permit?

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, noodleslayer said:

Thanks @ubonjoeand could you answer my question regarding which job titles I'd be allowed to have if he were to hire me? If he were to say 50k salary for example at the luxury carwash, would I be allowed to do that & get a non-b visa and work permit?

It would depend upon what your were doing. It is possible to get a work permit with a job title as a manager or general manager.

Prohitied occupations are listed here. http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/labour-law/forbidden-occupations-for-foreigners-jobs.html

[sawadee1947]

Is marriage an option?????

[noodleslayer]

46 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

It would depend upon what your were doing. It is possible to get a work permit with a job title as a manager or general manager.

Prohitied occupations are listed here. http://www.thailawonline.com/en/others/labour-law/forbidden-occupations-for-foreigners-jobs.html

So if he wanted to hire me as a car washer or security guard with a salary of 50k, this would not be permitted? Just to be clear.

[OneMoreFarang]

I didn't read the other posts, maybe the following was mentioned already.

Some time ago I asked Thais with whom I worked together if they want to officially employ me.

One answer was something like this: He would like to do that, but he won't do it because having a farang employed in his company will attract more scrutinizing from the authorities.

I think that makes a lot of sense because it seems companies who employ farangs seems to be much more checked in details than "normal" companies.

So maybe your friends will think twice if they want to employ you even if they are able to do that.

[ThaiAl]

16 hours ago, noodleslayer said:

Thank you, does the job title matter? As another guy in this post said:

 

Security guard: No

DJ: Maybe

Car washer: No

 

If for example he paid me 50k thb per month at the luxury car wash and I paid 750 thb tax per month, would that suffice to get a non-b visa with a work permit, along with non-b visa extension?

In general the rules are more or less like this: If the job can be done by a Thai, then it's very hard to get a permit.
I.e.: You will get a permit for an Italian guy because he is a cook and the owner of the Italian restaurant needs a real italian cook to do the food and teach the Thais! Thgis means also there must already working a lot to Thais there ....
There was a time with a lot of foreigner musicians (most of the time Philippinos), but then they stopped, because there are a lot of Thai musicians as well.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, noodleslayer said:

So if he wanted to hire me as a car washer or security guard with a salary of 50k, this would not be permitted? Just to be clear.

That is correct.

[problemfarang]

If i know correct a thai company only can hire a foreigner IF he has something special like thai cannot or not at best level. Which means like hiring a foreigner to teach english. 

Your best shot would be a manager position if he has a hotel or likewise. For car wash obviously no need a farang to hire. Security, guard.. no way as you probably know it already even before creating this post. 

Also your friend must holding a document from the government or labor office giving him a permission to hire a foreigner. This is not easy to obtain for a thai company if its not working international or a language school... 

If your friend is reqlly close to you tell him to show you as a partner. That will work for sure. I know someone did that. 

 

Again another thing is even your friend has the dpcument saying he can hire farangs, and hires you... you need to prove that your elite in this field so he needs you. For example if he hires you as a cook labor office will ask you to prove it, if your degree is engineering.. they will reject your work permit. You must be holding a related degree. I think you get the point what im trying to say.

 

So actually you have 2 options:

Tech or find a company you can hire you in your skill or training or degree. 

[problemfarang]

17 hours ago, noodleslayer said:

I should be pretty much fluent after 11 months of classes. Could you explain what non-teaching jobs I could do once I am fluent in Thai? In case it matters, my bachelor's is in Management.

About this you can apply international companies such as companies in sri racha, chonburi area. Have many transportation and trading companies there. But the thing is they already habe someone in that position from the company from their country. So its not easy for you just walk in and give your cv and wait for a chance... 

Or you can apply for thai international company but its also not that easy. You csn find a company doing business with usa or other. And try your luck.

Tbh your chances are really not good to find a job in thailand. Many companies alreqdy have their men from their HQ already. 

You can also try a position as HR. I know 1 2 company their hr are farangs because they are oroginally chinese companies. 

[jessc]

2 hours ago, noodleslayer said:

So if he wanted to hire me as a car washer or security guard with a salary of 50k, this would not be permitted? Just to be clear.

If any of his businesses cater to foreign tourists, the title of "English Language Social Media and Marketing Manager" is likely viable, assuming that's something you can do. It's a real job that tourism businesses actually hire for. Write the job description as requiring native English speaker (which is a legit qualification for English marketing and advertising, which generally requires an understanding of language specific idioms a d nuance). And it credibly carries a managerial title and job functions.

Edited February 5, 2022 by jessc
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