Extension Renewal: Change from Income to Deposit and current update

[SooKee]

Went to renew yesterday and also change from income (65k monthly transfers) to deposit (800K) method.  Won’t post a blow by blow account for every document as much of it doesn’t change so will mention a few things of note.

 

I had made an appointment for 1pm this time as I played safe and made sure I fulfilled the income criteria for the whole 12 months albeit the deposits I had made at the beginning of September (hitting the 800k plus) could likely have covered the months remaining after that for income transfers by way of the combination method.  I was probably overly paranoid by satisfying both sets of criteria fully but given the difficulties of travel and entry in the event of getting a refusal and having to leave to come back and start again I was prepared to make sure there was zero chance of a problem (at least as much as you can).  As it is I probably won’t do another 1pm appointment next time, the reason for which I’ll explain later.  This time I opted for 1pm so I would have the morning to get all the banking stuff done locally around Phloen Chit just in case I got unlucky at CW with one of the two banks I needed being closed due to a covid infection or the system being down.

 

Did my usual journey to CW, taking the BTS to Wat Phra Sri Mahathat then THB in a taxi.  The covid screening station was super easy, they even have English speaking staff filling the, now small A5, forms in for you, it’s literally a couple of questions, staffer fills in the form then hands it to you to fill in your name and sign.  Then straight through.

I didn’t bother going to the queue ticket counter or the document checking section (twice I’ve been to the document check section before, when I didn’t have appointments, and found it a total waste of time.  Had me doing things that the ACTUAL IO didn’t want and taking extra document copies only for the IO to discard them).   Pass on that waste of time unless there’s no choice.  My appointment was for 1 pm too and they only open the doors at 1pm so I didn’t want to waste time there and turn up late at the cubicle.

Went straight to counter L1-32 which is almost at the end of the L1 cubicle row and has a very small sign on the cubicle and also on the IO desk saying ‘Online Appointment / Retirement’.

 

First thing of note, luckily I printed my Appointment Email.  That email will tell you to go to desk L1-32.  The IO will ask for it and retain it, crossing you off her list.

 

I had pre-filled and printed off the 4 sundry forms that can be found here.  I made the mistake of signing them too but no big deal as she just stamped them again and had me sign them.  This time, she took a photo of me holding the penalties notice so it was visible.  Whether it was because I had changed method or whether this is now the norm I don’t know.

 

As ever, any documents you do sign, sign in blue pen.

 

What surprised me is that the IO did not seem interested at all in the documentation or bank books for the previous year’s income method.  She handed the bank books back without even looking at them.  She only bothered with the deposit account book.  I had taken a copy of the bank book inside cover and pages.  I made the mistake of running a highlighter over a couple of entries to make it easy to identify them.  Don’t.  She pulled that page, did her own copy and highlighted it herself.  They have their own methods I’m sure.  What I was lucky about is that it seems that the cubicles now have printers which they are happy to use rather than sending you off to the basement to take a copy yourself.

 

The IO did however retain the 13 month statement from the income method bank so I wouldn’t want to say it wasn’t needed and for peace of mind I’m glad I took it.  Maybe her boss would check that.  Or maybe she just didn’t throw them out.  But it’s off for the papers to be submitted without the bank book for the info they’re interested in.

 

In both cases I had done a transaction on the day of application, obtained the account letter (Nang sue rap rawng) and copied / signed the updated entry page of the bank book.  

 

As an aside, the full Thai for the account letter is ‘nang sue rap rawng yawt ngern fahk’ 

(it appears in Thai on the Bangkok Bank letters) and translated means ‘book certify sum money deposit’ (even though it’s not a book) but ‘nang sue rap rawng’ is enough for any staff in the bank to know what you want.

 

90 Day / TM30: The IO did flick through the passport to find my last 90 day report receipt.  She also briefly looked at the screen print from the TM30 app.  Whether she did that because I had also changed address I don’t know.

 

TM6: Since the last renewal I had changed to a new passport I also took a copy of the TM6 card (even though it’s in the passport) and the entry stamp.  I guess all the info is in the transfer stamps though and she didn’t want the TM6 copies (I’d done one with just the TM6 and one with the TM6 and entry stamp from the old passport).

 

Other documents I’d taken which she didn’t want:

• Wise transfer receipts (I had not been and got Credit Advices for the monthly transfers.  Last time I was told I’d need them this time but two years before I took them and they weren’t wanted so I thought I’d wing it and offer the Wise receipts if needed.  As I said though, the IO was not at all interested in the previous method compliance.
• Previous passport
• Rental contract (in lieu of charge of address)
• Hand drawn map of home address location (she did however retain the printed / Google maps version that was in the document bundle).
• Pension certificate

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by SooKee

[DrJack54]

53 minutes ago, SooKee said:

The IO did however retain the 13 month statement from the income method bank so I wouldn’t want to say it wasn’t needed and for peace of mind I’m glad I took it

First up thanks for clear detailed report.

The sentence I quoted is imo important. To do a change from income method to money in the bank it's important to maintain the income payments for previous year.

Your fortunate that seems you embassy can provide income letter? Some folk cannot provide that. Still would have thought that the io would have looked at your bank book for monthly deposits. However you provided bank statements.

 

Not sure if the io was looking for your 90 report.

TM30 only if you had changed address. 

 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2022 by DrJack54

[SooKee]

I have not been able to use Embassy letters since the changes came about.  Up until now I've used the income method with monthly transfers, needing to show they were international (FTT) both by way of bank book entries, statements and (in the first year) Credit Advice slips which the IO didn't look at and handed back to me.  So, I did the same this year, being certain that they would want proof of compliance with the previous renewal method which is what I came to understand reading all the previous posts here.  I would certainly not veer from that even now, it's simply not worth the risk.  It's the mere fact that she wasn't interested at all that surprised me.  She did not even open those bank books, just handed them back, discarded the statements and bank book copies for that method, merely clipping them to the bundle at the end.  Whether anyone looked at them I don't know, nobody will.

In addition, nobody can say whether she was looking for the 90 day report or not, one person's guess is no more valid than another.  All I am able to say, as the one that was there, is that she did rather purposefully flip through the passport, got to the place where the 90 day was stapled in, removed it, opened it up and read it.  So she sure seemed a lot more interested than just "oh what's this piece of paper".  Take from that what you will.

 

As I already stated in the OP, I HAD changed address so maybe that was why she was looking for the TM30.  Again, though nobody can be sure what was in her mind.  But,  change of address is one of the two reasons they might check for a TM30, the other reason is that they might be checking to see that you have a TM30 for your current address, whether you have moved or not, so it's not ONLY if you changed address.  Change address or not, you should have a TM30, depending on how much they are bothered.  One explanation though could be that they ARE looking for both.

Two things I did leave out:

I was on time for my appointment at 1:00 pm.  The checking process was all completed by 1:15 pm.

 

The wait for the passport however was the longest it's ever been.  1 hour and 20 minutes.  There were a LOT of people waiting for passport return from the morning session (I spoke to a guy who pointed out several that had been there before 12).  We even went for a period of 30 minutes before my passport was returned when there was no gradual trickle out of passports every 5-10 minutes, which was a bit odd.  I'm guessing there were potentially two reasons.  First off, the bottle neck has always been the final sign off and passport return.  Being the first in for the afternoon session could still leave your application quite a way down the approval queue from when they 'downed tools' for lunch at 12.  Previously, when going early morning I've only ever waited 30-45 minutes for the passport to come back.  Secondly, maybe they've changed the process to keep staff traffic within the building down.  Passports only started to come back this time when the staffer returned with a fairly big box full.  Either way, I will try to do morning appointments in future, as early as possible.  I can't recall when the first appointment time is, just so long as I have time to get to CW to hit the bank and get my letter and bank book updated.

Edited February 9, 2022 by SooKee

[mtls2005]

14 minutes ago, SooKee said:

The wait for the passport however was the longest it's ever been.  1 hour and 20 minutes.

Yeah, many reports on this.

 

As near as I could determine they batch passports/apps, in bunches (five-ish?) for the three-level reviews. So the guy just ahead of me got in one batch and was out in 30 minutes. My batch was ~ 60 minutes.

 

 

[DrJack54]

22 minutes ago, SooKee said:

 But,  change of address is one of the two reasons they might check for a TM30, the other reason is that they might be checking to see that you have a TM30 for your current address, whether you have moved or not, so it's not ONLY if you changed address

I have done several extensions all at CW all with out ever changing address.

I have never done a TM30 in my 10 years in Thailand. 

I rent condo BKK.

Most recent extension was Nov last year. 

No TM30 and no 90 day report.

 

[SooKee]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

I have done several extensions all at CW all with out ever changing address.

I have never done a TM30 in my 10 years in Thailand. 

I rent condo BKK.

Most recent extension was Nov last year. 

No TM30 and no 90 day report.

 

I have also done the same.  Neither your or my experience makes anything Immigration policy though.  There have also been reports of people who have not had a TM30 and been told to do one.  One person's account doesn't make it the norm and not doing / having what is needed is all fine, until it isn't.  What you, nor anyone else, absolutely cannot say for sure though is what the IO was / was not looking for in my case.  What has happened to you historically is irrelevant in that regard.

I was required to do a TM30 in when I first moved to Bangkok 7 years ago (from elsewhere in Thailand, the year count is largely irrelevant too).  Since then I was never asked and it was never checked.  Then earlier this year I renewed my passport.  Went to CW to transfer the stamps, TM30 not checked.  Then went to MTT to do my first 90 day report in person (you have to do the first 90 day in person with a new passport) and the TM30 in my old passport pre-dated an exit / re-entry I had done in 2020. I was told to update it.  Luckily, I already had updated it by self-registering on the TM30 app and was able to show her the phone screen, I had just never got round to replacing the original paper TM30 in my passport.  After that I printed the screen shot and now leave that in the passport.

What has happened to anyone one, ten or fifty times doesn't validate that experience as being policy, it also does not stop the IO asking for something that the law says you should have.  Getting away with not having it and/or not asked for x for # years does not mean it's policy and does not mean a person won't be asked.  What Immigration wants can and does change, often depending on the IO at the time, and often just in a few cases.  Others are free to do whatever they want, but I prefer to have everything that I should have and might be required rather than be left scurrying around because I don't have it, regardless of how many years I may have got away with it for.  YMMV ????

Edited February 9, 2022 by SooKee

[SooKee]

55 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Yeah, many reports on this.

 

As near as I could determine they batch passports/apps, in bunches (five-ish?) for the three-level reviews. So the guy just ahead of me got in one batch and was out in 30 minutes. My batch was ~ 60 minutes.

 

 

Yeah, I'm sure the 1pm session didn't help.  Residue from the morning I suspect.  I think about 6 passports came back while I was sat waiting, one every 10 minutes or so, then nothing at all.  When the staffer came back it was a BIG box, could easily have been 20-30 in it, and it was full, unless there were other documents in there too.  Might be the same next year but I'll revert to a morning appointment if I can, just to take the pre-lunch residue out of the equation.

 

[Srikcir]

4 hours ago, SooKee said:

I have not been able to use Embassy letters since the changes came about.  Up until now I've used the income method with monthly transfers, needing to show they were international (FTT) both by way of bank book entries, statements and (in the first year) Credit Advice slips which the IO didn't look at and handed back to me.  So, I did the same this year, being certain that they would want proof of compliance with the previous renewal method which is what I came to understand reading all the previous posts here.  I would certainly not veer from that even now, it's simply not worth the risk.  It's the mere fact that she wasn't interested at all that surprised me.  She did not even open those bank books, just handed them back, discarded the statements and bank book copies for that method, merely clipping them to the bundle at the end.  Whether anyone looked at them I don't know, nobody will.

In addition, nobody can say whether she was looking for the 90 day report or not, one person's guess is no more valid than another.  All I am able to say, as the one that was there, is that she did rather purposefully flip through the passport, got to the place where the 90 day was stapled in, removed it, opened it up and read it.  So she sure seemed a lot more interested than just "oh what's this piece of paper".  Take from that what you will.

 

As I already stated in the OP, I HAD changed address so maybe that was why she was looking for the TM30.  Again, though nobody can be sure what was in her mind.  But,  change of address is one of the two reasons they might check for a TM30, the other reason is that they might be checking to see that you have a TM30 for your current address, whether you have moved or not, so it's not ONLY if you changed address.  Change address or not, you should have a TM30, depending on how much they are bothered.  One explanation though could be that they ARE looking for both.

Two things I did leave out:

I was on time for my appointment at 1:00 pm.  The checking process was all completed by 1:15 pm.

 

The wait for the passport however was the longest it's ever been.  1 hour and 20 minutes.  There were a LOT of people waiting for passport return from the morning session (I spoke to a guy who pointed out several that had been there before 12).  We even went for a period of 30 minutes before my passport was returned when there was no gradual trickle out of passports every 5-10 minutes, which was a bit odd.  I'm guessing there were potentially two reasons.  First off, the bottle neck has always been the final sign off and passport return.  Being the first in for the afternoon session could still leave your application quite a way down the approval queue from when they 'downed tools' for lunch at 12.  Previously, when going early morning I've only ever waited 30-45 minutes for the passport to come back.  Secondly, maybe they've changed the process to keep staff traffic within the building down.  Passports only started to come back this time when the staffer returned with a fairly big box full.  Either way, I will try to do morning appointments in future, as early as possible.  I can't recall when the first appointment time is, just so long as I have time to get to CW to hit the bank and get my letter and bank book updated.

I 've been using the monthly foreign bank transfers method because of the lack of embassy monthly income letter (which makes no reference to monthly foreign transfers).

My IO's every time scrutinize my annual bank summary letter of monthly foreign transfers and each credit advice receipt issued for foreign bank transfers.

In my last nonO-A extension appointment in August 2021 the IO checked off each CAR amount to the bank letter monthly amount, required me to hold up my bank letter and first page of bank book next to my face while she took my picture. She gave no explanation for this odd event. I didn't ask, I was getting my extension approved. 

Be prepared for the full Monty.