US: TIN for wife. How much hassle? + 1 SS ?

[TheScience]

I'm finding that whether it's for a will, safety box beneficiary or tax break I'm going to have to suck my wife into US tax system. How much hassle is it to get a tin for her?

 

As a side note: social security benefits upon my death = none for widow having not lived in US five years nor holding green card. Correct?

[howlee101]

From the ssa . gov website:

If You Are The Survivor

Just as you plan for your family's protection if you die, you should consider the Social Security benefits that may be available if you are the survivor — that is, the spouse, child, or parent of a worker who dies. That person must have worked long enough under Social Security to qualify for benefits.

 

From irs . gov:

ITIN

An ITIN, or Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, is a tax processing number only available for certain nonresident and resident aliens, their spouses, and dependents who cannot get a Social Security Number (SSN). It is a 9-digit number, beginning with the number "9", formatted like an SSN (NNN-NN-NNNN).

 

You can use the IRS’s Interactive Tax Assistant tool to help determine if you should file an application to receive an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN).

To obtain an ITIN, you must complete IRS Form W-7, IRS Application for Individual Taxpayer Identification Number. The Form W-7 requires documentation substantiating foreign/alien status and true identity for each individual. 

[tjintx]

Recommend getting her "in the system."   My wife didn't qualify for SS benefits on her own (just short of the number of months of required work under her "legal" status) but, once reaching the qualifying age, gets half of what I get just for being my spouse.   I assume you need the TIN for that.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, tjintx said:

Recommend getting her "in the system."   My wife didn't qualify for SS benefits on her own (just short of the number of months of required work under her "legal" status) but, once reaching the qualifying age, gets half of what I get just for being my spouse.   I assume you need the TIN for that.

But she was living in the US as a permanent resident for at least 5 years and had a SSA number and card.

The OP's wife has never been to the US.

[lopburi3]

Other than for joint tax return she should not require ITIN for wills and such - she is a foreign national and will ID as such.  And US does not easily issue anymore.  Other than for joint tax it should be be required.

 

If a joint tax return is an advantage (perhaps not for SS) then ITIN is filed with tax return (it can not be obtained at any time as was the case previously).  But as said above suspect it is not needed in your case.  US is trying to limit the number of such issues and has required those who previously obtained to confirm current need over the last 10 years or so.  

[TheScience]

5 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Other than for joint tax return she should not require ITIN for wills and such - she is a foreign national and will ID as such.  And US does not easily issue anymore.  Other than for joint tax it should be be required.

 

If a joint tax return is an advantage (perhaps not for SS) then ITIN is filed with tax return (it can not be obtained at any time as was the case previously).  But as said above suspect it is not needed in your case.  US is trying to limit the number of such issues and has required those who previously obtained to confirm current need over the last 10 years or so.  

Thank you, some good information there.

 

For my safety box the bank wants a SS/TIN. I'm presuming my 401k as well.

 

It's possible it's not a legal requirement but rather a data field entry.

[lopburi3]

4 minutes ago, TheScience said:

Thank you, some good information there.

 

For my safety box the bank wants a SS/TIN. I'm presuming my 401k as well.

 

It's possible it's not a legal requirement but rather a data field entry.

I suspect form item but was thinking you living in Thailand from OP but sounds like you want a US safety box (and living in US?) if such requirement and that might be required (have no need for such living in Thailand so never checked).  If indeed both living in US would get ITIN.

[howlee101]

49 minutes ago, tjintx said:

Recommend getting her "in the system."   My wife didn't qualify for SS benefits on her own (just short of the number of months of required work under her "legal" status) but, once reaching the qualifying age, gets half of what I get just for being my spouse.   I assume you need the TIN for that.

Just a suggestion....you said your wife is just short of the number of months but assuming you mean credits (earn up to 4 credits per tax year and needs 40 credits to be eligible).  My wife is in the same situation.  Assuming you are still filing US tax returns, consider claiming self-employment income for your wife (it was $6040 for 2022).  Yes, you will have to eat the cost of 13% Social Security and Federal tax but may be worth it in the long run so she can get the "surviving spouse" protection. 

[TheScience]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

I suspect form item but was thinking you living in Thailand from OP but sounds like you want a US safety box (and living in US?) if such requirement and that might be required (have no need for such living in Thailand so never checked).  If indeed both living in US would get ITIN.

No. We are living in Thailand and have no plans to return.

 

Yes. I have US safety box. I need to make my wife beneficiary, co signed in event if untimely demise.

 

I think I need to bring the documents and old banknotes over sooner or later just worried about fire. I'll need to dump the metals. I'm just going to need another five years. Adding a family member is complicated. A trusted friend possible.

[ubonjoe]

W7 form and instructions for applying for the ITIN. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-w-7

[lopburi3]

20 minutes ago, TheScience said:

I think I need to bring the documents and old banknotes over sooner or later just worried about fire.

Not sure about fire worry - much less chance for that in Thailand cement homes than in the wood constructions of USA.  Believe there are commercial firms renting safety box storage here if that would be an alternative.  Always better to avoid international issues after death.

Edit:  also suspect a firebox safe would be cheaper than keep the bank box.

[TheScience]

4 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

W7 form and instructions for applying for the ITIN. https://www.irs.gov/forms-pubs/about-form-w-7

Thank you that is very helpful

[TheScience]

Just now, lopburi3 said:

Not sure about fire worry - much less chance for that in Thailand cement homes than in the wood constructions of USA.  Believe there are commercial firms renting safety box storage here if that would be an alternative.  Always better to avoid international issues after death.

Thanks. SCB was easiest for a box but I'm now at Bangkok, Krungsri. Only a minor account.

 

Many dox are available online or via state agencies if need be.

 

I'm a bit worried about the banknotes but whatever. Thank you lopburi.

[KanchanaburiGuy]

A note about one Social Security thing said upthread.........

 

My wife has her Green Card, but never *ahem* "worked" in the U.S.. She has therefore accumulated no Social Security benefits of her own.

 

But now that we are both age-qualified, she still gets a "spousal benefit " totalling half of what i get paid. She's also fully qualified to receive Medicare.

 

But here's the twist..........

 

I was told by Social Security that as a foreign national, she is only eligible to receive her payments while she's in America!

 

When she returns to Thailand, she's supposed to notify Social Security. Social Security will then suspend her 1/2 scale SS payments until she returns to the U.S.. (Payments will resume the month AFTER she notifies them she has returned.)

 

While this may never apply to the OP if he can't get her a Social Security Number anyway, it may still be worth knowing for someone else who happens to be reading along:

 

According to Social Security, benefit-eligible Foreign National spouses are only eligible to receive their spousal benefit......... while they are in America!

 

If they return to Thailand....... while they are in Thailalnd........ the payments are supposed to stop!

 

(No clue about any other kinds of benefits, like survivor, etc.)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Cheers!

[StevoLe]

I am currently in the process of getting a ITIN for my Thai wife.  It made
the difference between owing money for 2021 and getting a refund.  My wife has
no income, so no issues with tax implications.

 

The biggest hassle is the amount of time it requires the IRS to issue the
ITIN.   They are seriously behind processing paperwork.  I sent the application
and tax return in February and the IRS has had it for 7 weeks now without a word.
I don't expect to hear anything about the ITIN until June and much later for the
refund.

 

1. Download the W-7 and instructions and complete the form.
2. Got a certified copy of my wife's Thai passport from the U.S. embassy
   in Bangkok.  I did this by mail.   The instructions are on the embassy website.
3. Prepared a signed statement that must include a declaration that one spouse is a
   nonresident alien and the other is a U.S. citizen or resident alien,
   and you are choosing to both be treated as U.S. residents for the tax year.
   You also have to include the name, address and  Social Security number for you
   and "Applying For" in place of wife's tax ID.
4. Sent W-7 (signed by wife), Statement (signed by both me and wife), wife's certified passport copy,
   and completed 1040 as "Married Filing Jointly"  (signed by both wife and me) to Austin.
   
Now I'm just wait until I hear something.

[GinBoy2]

6 hours ago, StevoLe said:

I am currently in the process of getting a ITIN for my Thai wife.  It made
the difference between owing money for 2021 and getting a refund.  My wife has
no income, so no issues with tax implications.

 

The biggest hassle is the amount of time it requires the IRS to issue the
ITIN.   They are seriously behind processing paperwork.  I sent the application
and tax return in February and the IRS has had it for 7 weeks now without a word.
I don't expect to hear anything about the ITIN until June and much later for the
refund.

 

1. Download the W-7 and instructions and complete the form.
2. Got a certified copy of my wife's Thai passport from the U.S. embassy
   in Bangkok.  I did this by mail.   The instructions are on the embassy website.
3. Prepared a signed statement that must include a declaration that one spouse is a
   nonresident alien and the other is a U.S. citizen or resident alien,
   and you are choosing to both be treated as U.S. residents for the tax year.
   You also have to include the name, address and  Social Security number for you
   and "Applying For" in place of wife's tax ID.
4. Sent W-7 (signed by wife), Statement (signed by both me and wife), wife's certified passport copy,
   and completed 1040 as "Married Filing Jointly"  (signed by both wife and me) to Austin.
   
Now I'm just wait until I hear something.

It always took a while for the IRS to process ITINS, even before the whole Federal bureaucracy went into collective cardiac arrest during covid.

 

We got an ITIN back in I think 2015, and if memory serves me right , it was 4-6 months before I heard anything