Thai Parent Troubles

[Ijustwannateach]

I know of a marriage between a Thai-Chinese woman and a foreign man (a teacher). The family of the woman was rather large and fairly rich. They weren't thrilled at all by the marriage, but didn't actively oppose it.

I think that in the world of materialistic, business-minded people of any country you find that they want well-qualified, well-educated, intelligent people to be teachers for their children, but they would never want their children to become (or marry) those teachers. It is a rather confusing reflection that they want their children educated by a class of people who are considered to be too poorly paid to marry them.

"Steven"

[cdnvic]

In other words you are basing this entirely upon your own failure.

Maybe you aren't the best one to be giving advice then.

Not so - wrong as usual

How would a noob like yourself know what is "usual", or is this the same level of literacy you showed by calling "texan" a race?

[wolfmanjack]

I would say that we need more information on the background of the thai parents. It could be racism or it could be that they want their son to marry in the same social circle or a higher social circle of the thai society. Marrying to gain influence for example.

Face it. A canadian does not have to be rich to attend a canadian University but a thai would have to be fairly well off tp afford to send their child to the same school.

Steven,

Where are the elite going to find elite to teach their children ?

i will give an example from my own experience. When i was at university I was dating a girl from a very wealthy family which was fine until we started talking about marriage. The father came out fully against it because I was from a poor family. It did not matter how much money i would be making after we graduated. In his eyes I would never fit in with their circle. During summer vacation he paid for us to go stay with his brother at a country club in New York so that we would see how out of place I would be associating with the rich people. To put it bluntly he was right that i did not fit in with the Muffie's and Biff's. The way they acted turned my stomach. Where he was wrong was that his daughter did not want a Biff. She ended up marrying a poor asian. The father refused to attend her wedding because of the racial aspect.

The same thing happened when i dated a rich thai girl. The father was a General in the Thai army. He was super nice to me. The mother was a principal of a school in Bangkok. She refused to meet me. Whenever I would come to their house the mother would leave before i arrived. I was on good terms with her mother's sister and she asked why. The aunt told me that the mother felt if she agreed to meet me then that would mean she condoned our relationship. The mother wanted her daughter to marry up in social class not down.

[skygirl972]

Hello, I am new to the forum and need some major advice about my boyfriend and his family. I thought it would be best to ask the ladies of the forum first.

A little background on us first. We are both in our mid 20's, he is a couple years older than me. We met at university here in Canada, my home country. He is over here studying, getting graduate degrees, as there are worth more than a degree back in Thailand. We have been dating for a little while now, and his family has known about me for quite some time, but never actually met me.

Last week, they flew over to Canada for the first time to visit him. He already told me that they do not approve of the "idea" of me. They do not like the fact that their only son is dating a white, non-thai women. Everytime they talk to him on the phone they are always telling him to break up with me.

So anyways, they came over here and it was horrible. I spoke to them in thai

and english, and they wouldn't even look at me or speak to me. For the whole trip, his mother wouldn't even look at me. When we went out to eat, they would just read and not even look up from the table. My boyfriend would talk to me and try to get them to talk, but they wouldn't.

So after being treated so cold for the entire trip, I thought it would be best if my boyfriend took them to the airport by himself to say goodbye. There he told them off again, telling them that they were extremely rude and disrespectful and that we both didn't deserve this kind of treatment. His mother threw a fit. She started crying and saying how her trip to Canada had been ruined and that she only cared about one thing, that the girls he dates/marries are thai. Her main concerns are that if he marries a non-thai, they'll have no extended family in thailand, and that his kids won't learn thai, and that since I'm not not thai, I will never fit in. So, she wants him to break up with me now.

So, now my boyfriend is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I told him that we don't have to make any decisions now. We're still; going to live in Canada for the next couple of years, and he's not going to find some thai girl here to marry. We're not engaged, having kids, getting married anytime soon, etc. But I'm afraid if we can't at least try to fix this problem, we're going to break up over it eventually.

He has great respect for his parents, at this is the first time in his life that he has stood up to them, at least partly.

So, with all the elder respect in Thai culture, how do we get around this?

Has anyone else had problems with overbearing Thai parents?

They must be Chinese Thai!!!!

He needs to decide if he's going to live a lie to please his parents or be true to his feelings. There's not much you can do except be yourself! They may never change but they may see that if their son is happy they will need to respect that!

[DamianMavis]

"The father was a General in the Thai army. He was super nice to me. The mother was a principal of a school in Bangkok. She refused to meet me."

Interesting, the General was kool, the school principal was not. Would figure it would be the other way around heh.

Damian

[Sheryl]

This type of reaction is not uncommon especially among upper class Thais. Thai-Chinese are worse (especially where a son is involved) but I've known it to happen with Thai-Thais too.

The problem you are up against is not just the elder respect thing but also that in Thai society, marriage requires the family's consent. You just do not go against your family's wishes -- or if you do, you have to be prepared to live abroad in exile, a pariah in Thai society. That is the problem your BF faces.

From the parents side, you need to understand that in Thailand parents are considered to have the right to approve or disapprove of a grown child's partner and expect to be obeyed in that regard. Not that this excuses their rudeness to you, but it may help to understand that from where they are coming, they are within their rights to insist he break up with you, and his refusal to do so must be quite shocking and upsetting to them.

The only solution I have seen work is sheer persistence and patience. I know one couple that waited 10 years to get married because that;s how long it took the girl's parents to relent and accept the fact that this was the man she wanted. And that wasn't even marriage with a foreigner, just a Thai-Chinese with a Thai. That they waited the 10 years tells you something about just how important it is in Thailand to have the parent's blessing (or at least non-objection) to a marriage.

Given enough time, as it becomes evident that the son or daughter is not going to change their mind, many parents finally come around. Many...but not all.

A great deal really depends on how your BF feels and what he wants to do about it, as it is his family and his culture. If you can both feel OK with it then just carrying on and leaving the family issue for the future makes sense. Many things could change: over time you might decide to separate for other reasons, in which case it would have been a shame for him to break with his parents over you. Or, he might decide to settle in Canada, which would make marrying without his family's approval if not easy, at least more feasible than if he were returning to Thailand. Even if none of these occur and you are still together when he's finished school and wanting to marry and settle in Thailand...just the fact that a few more years went by with you two still a couple may help to soften the resistance a bit.

I do however recommend that you not see them (his parents) again until such a time as they have accepted the relationship. There is nothing gained by subjecting yourself to this sort of treatment and it only makes a subsequent reconciliation (or at least accommodation) harder to achieve.

Good luck!

[bino]

If you can both feel OK with it then just carrying on and leaving the family issue for the future makes sense. Many things could change: over time you might decide to separate for other reasons, in which case it would have been a shame for him to break with his parents over you. Or, he might decide to settle in Canada, which would make marrying without his family's approval if not easy, at least more feasible than if he were returning to Thailand. Even if none of these occur and you are still together when he's finished school and wanting to marry and settle in Thailand...just the fact that a few more years went by with you two still a couple may help to soften the resistance a bit.

I do however recommend that you not see them (his parents) again until such a time as they have accepted the relationship. There is nothing gained by subjecting yourself to this sort of treatment and it only makes a subsequent reconciliation (or at least accommodation) harder to achieve.

Good luck!

Good post and especially great advice Sheryl!!

Edited June 18, 2007 by bino

[CanadianGirl2]

I guess my other post got deleted. Thanks for the advice everyone.

#2 Tilokarat: My bf family really isn't Sino-Thai. His dad is, well 1/4, but his mom is

100% Thai and she's the one giving me the most troubles. I don't think it's a status issue, since his family isn't that well off. They'd be middle class I guess, not super rich but not poor. They are both educated and their children both have university degrees. They are equal when comparing to Canadian middle class families, which I guess makes them better off compared to other Thai families.

#3 observer21: lol, no. I asked my bf. He said his parents both hate the leaders of that party and don't support it.

#5: This could be right, but I think their reasons are more selfish rather than looking

out for their son.

#4 girlx: This is also part of it. His mother doesn't want to go into an old age home,

which is what we do here. She's afraid if we get married I won't take care of her and

just put her in a home, which I guess is really disrespectful over there.

#14 farangsay: Thank you.

cdnvic: #15 I think this is all we can do right now. Hopefully things will get easier

as time goes on.

DamianMavis #16: I was upset at the beginning for him not defending me, but I'm okay now. He has stood his ground as I see it. His family is back in Thailand now and

whenever they call and they talk to him about me he thanks them for their advice but

tells them he's not going to follow it. He's not getting rid of me, well, not yet

anyways. lol

davidjtayler #17: Thanks. Yes, time is the key I think.

sbk #18: Nope, not giving up yet. It's true, he might stay over here if he hadn't

of met me, but if he stays now I'm going to get the blame. He's going back over

there for a few years after things with school get settled here. He feels he needs

to "pay his dues", which I think he should as well.

cmsally#21: Currently working on that. But, whatever I do with my life I'm going

to do it for me first. They don't seem to have problems with my education, hard

work or success. Just my race.

LaReina #22: My parents/friends/exteneded family love my bf to death. They approve

of the relationship 100%, they are so happy for me that I found such a wonderful guy.

My mom says "life's to short to have shit in you life" so, she tells me to ignore

his parents since their just being ignorant towards me. She feels bad for my bf though,

since it's so hard on him. He just has a younger sister, who is older than me. She

came over for the visit too. I've talked to her before, but she's with her mom on this

one.

wolfmanjack #33: I pay for my education. My bf pays for his education. We both pay ourown way by working when we can and getting good marks and getting scholarships,

bursaries, etc. His parents didn't pay for his education in Canada.

If we got married, he wouldn't be marrying "up" but it sure as hel_l wouldn't be "down".

lol

Sheryl #36: I just think they are being extremely hard to please. They made him

break up with his last gf that he was dating for 8 years (who was Thai I might add)

because she was too short, and they didn't want short grandchildren. She was 5'3.

But thanks for the other advice, I agree.

So, I think time is the best solution. But in the meanwhile, I'm going to send a gift over to show them that I care what they think.

[bina]

warning bells warning bells

T

hey made him break up with his last gf

if he broke up after 8! yrs cause mom wanted him too because of some physical problem wiht a thai girl, and u lyourself arent super interested in marriage etc right now, i would say , in this case, like many of the men do. and they didnt make him break up. he chose to break up because of them. meaning he chose them ; or what signifies their way of life.... think think think.

RUN FOREST RUN

or, just enjoy what u have at the moment (btw, thai men will be thinking serious thoughts of marriage most likely)...

and whatever people say, MIL'S do have an affect on u if the husband/bf has to be between two people he cares about all the time; its not so simple as standing up to your parents...

how many people ahve stood up to their parents. i watch my kids. they have a hard time going against my ex husband (their father)'s wishes. he himself was never able to say no to his parents. it does wear u down after awhile. most people who have overbearing or dominant parents or have little self confidence mixed with cultural things need parental approval more then spousal approval. especially if culture is a big part of it. its not just going against parents. its going against a cultural thing that u were raised with, nursed on, conditioned to, think (brain washing, conditioning whatever).

standing up to parents that are far away is easier than to parents near by, thats for sure...

bina

now in second cross cultural marriage

[cdnvic]

He may have learned from that experience though, and living away from mommy and daddy may have helped him find his backbone. He's already begun to show it, which is a good sign.

Just to put some balance in here, my inlaws are Thai-Chinese, and they couldn't have been more welcoming to me.

[JimmyCA]

So anyways, they came over here and it was horrible. I spoke to them in thai

and english, and they wouldn't even look at me or speak to me. For the whole trip, his mother wouldn't even look at me. When we went out to eat, they would just read and not even look up from the table. My boyfriend would talk to me and try to get them to talk, but they wouldn't.

You are better than them, have some respect for yourself.

They are typical thai, why you want to involve with them?

[wolfmanjack]

Hello, I am new to the forum and need some major advice about my boyfriend and his family. I thought it would be best to ask the ladies of the forum first.

A little background on us first. We are both in our mid 20's, he is a couple years older than me. We met at university here in Canada, my home country. He is over here studying, getting graduate degrees, as there are worth more than a degree back in Thailand. We have been dating for a little while now, and his family has known about me for quite some time, but never actually met me.

Last week, they flew over to Canada for the first time to visit him. He already told me that they do not approve of the "idea" of me. They do not like the fact that their only son is dating a white, non-thai women. Everytime they talk to him on the phone they are always telling him to break up with me.

So anyways, they came over here and it was horrible. I spoke to them in thai

and english, and they wouldn't even look at me or speak to me. For the whole trip, his mother wouldn't even look at me. When we went out to eat, they would just read and not even look up from the table. My boyfriend would talk to me and try to get them to talk, but they wouldn't.

So after being treated so cold for the entire trip, I thought it would be best if my boyfriend took them to the airport by himself to say goodbye. There he told them off again, telling them that they were extremely rude and disrespectful and that we both didn't deserve this kind of treatment. His mother threw a fit. She started crying and saying how her trip to Canada had been ruined and that she only cared about one thing, that the girls he dates/marries are thai. Her main concerns are that if he marries a non-thai, they'll have no extended family in thailand, and that his kids won't learn thai, and that since I'm not not thai, I will never fit in. So, she wants him to break up with me now.

So, now my boyfriend is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I told him that we don't have to make any decisions now. We're still; going to live in Canada for the next couple of years, and he's not going to find some thai girl here to marry. We're not engaged, having kids, getting married anytime soon, etc. But I'm afraid if we can't at least try to fix this problem, we're going to break up over it eventually.

He has great respect for his parents, at this is the first time in his life that he has stood up to them, at least partly.

So, with all the elder respect in Thai culture, how do we get around this?

Has anyone else had problems with overbearing Thai parents?

They must be Chinese Thai!!!!

He needs to decide if he's going to live a lie to please his parents or be true to his feelings. There's not much you can do except be yourself! They may never change but they may see that if their son is happy they will need to respect that!

The General was from a relatively poor family. He made his promotions during the vietnam war working with the American Army. he was as cool as can be. He took me shopping and drove me around bangkok. When my dad came to Chiang Mai he drove my dad around. He even took my dad on a military base here in Chiang Mai. My dad told me the MP's were hollering "NO FALANG! NO FALANG!" and he just drove past them like they didn't exist. Her mom was a social climber. Probably from associating with the people at he school she was a principal at.

[Sheryl]

They made him

break up with his last gf that he was dating for 8 years (who was Thai I might add)

because she was too short, and they didn't want short grandchildren. She was 5'3.

Wow...perhaps she's just one of those women who doesn't want her son to marry.

In Thai culture both sons and daughters look after aging parents, if anything daughters often more so, so since he has a sister I don't think the old age part is really the issue. More likely she has a selfish desire to hold on to her son.

Good that your BF is starting to see through her. But I'd suggest if you do end up marrying, you settle somewhere far from where she is.

[bino]

what exactly is a noob? Is that pronounced like knob?

Nope pronounced like newbie...

Edited June 19, 2007 by bino

[sbk]

Lets keep this relatively on topic, please.

Canadiangirl2, sorry I didn't mean to suggest you were going to give him up, just giving you encouragement not to do so. He's put in a major effort in standing up to his parents, support him in that. But, obviously, without being critical at all of his mother. Mothers-in-law are notorious for no woman being good enough for their boy. And since he's the oldest and a boy she probably had high hopes for him. Be the noble one and prove her wrong. I like the gift idea. Maybe she'll get hit by customs tax too

[cdnvic]

what exactly is a noob? Is that pronounced like knob?

Sometimes

[Khnom]

OP,

Sorry to hear they've been so rude to you. Nobody deserves to be treated that way.

I'm a Thai guy living in the US who married an American farung woman. I don't know what is typical, but my wife didn't have to go thru the type of experience you did.

My father was a very kind person who never pried into my personal affairs. My mother seemed interested in managing this aspect of my life. When I started going out with my wife, she tried to hook me up with a Thai girl who lived clear across the continent from me who I met once ages ago. Finally admitting defeat when I showed no interest, she mentioned she wished my wife would be a Thai, but that was the most she'd done. She has never mistreated my wife.

However, there are a couple of people in my extended family who don't get along with my wife too well. They have attacked her with me in private, which led to us having spectacular fireworks of discussions. I attribute this to conflicts between individuals rather than something to do with cultural differences. Regardless, I have to buffer it and keep it away from my wife for her sake. She is oblivious to any of this, and sometimes I do feel the pain of shouldering the crap. Your bf will have to perform this role perhaps much more often and to a greater extent than me. This is something you should discuss with him.

Someone mentioned earlier in this tread that this is all about fear, and I totally agree with that. Most likely, it's the fear of losing her son to Canada, the fear of the stereotypical wanton farung woman she may have seen in some stupid B movies, the fear losing control of her son (is she a control freak?), etc.

You can certainly try to find out what her fears / concerns are and address them, but first you should decide if it's worth it for you to go thru all this.

All the best to you.

[sbk]

Welcome to the forum khnom, and thanks for such an insightful post. Its interesting to hear it from the other side of the situation.

[philliphn]

Have you ever been to Thailand?

I suggest that you remain in Canada!

[cdnvic]

Have you ever been to Thailand?

I suggest that you remain in Canada!

Which one of at least three of us in this thread are you speaking nonsensically to?

[philliphn]

Have you ever been to Thailand?

I suggest that you remain in Canada!

Which one of at least three of us in this thread are you speaking nonsensically to?

I am speaking to the OP.

Again I sensibly suggest that she remain in Canada.

[GuestHouse]

Let's give this its name so that we understand what we are talking about.

Excuses can be made for this being a Thai Culture thing - Like we always have to understand and bend to Thai Culture (Even it seems when living in our own country) - But no this is not a Cultural issue this is RACISM.

My parents of of mixed race, my parents had to face up to my mother's parents, a story that ended with my maternal grandfather, who started out not allowing my father in the house, only allowing my father to shave him when he was dieing. It was my father the man he hated for being foreign that he turned to when he was dieing - That happened because of RESPECT.

It wasn't there to start with, but it was there in buckets full at the end.

It started for my parents with both my parents challenging my mother's family - ' This is it, take it or leave it'.

There is NO EXCUSE for the behaviour of boyfriend's parents. There is a REASON and the reason is RACISM. If you don't either get away from it or fight it, it will ruin you, not just your relationship.

Measure your man and measure yourself. If between you you are up to telling them to sling it, then do so, if not, go find another relationship.

I don't do this 'When you marry a Thai you marry the family' <deleted>, or at least I do with the additon - Yeh and they marry us!

Oh and I don't buy that 'he told his parents at the airport',(when you were conveniently not there) I doubt he did, this is a power game that is as old as your b/f; if he was going to challenge something he'd challenge their disgusting behaviour in front of you.

And as a parting comment.

Like what are you doing letting people treat you like that for?! Get a grip of your own value.

[CanadianGirl2]

Khnom #47 - Thanks so much for your post. I guess it could be fear of losing her son.

She is, from what I have heard and seen, a control freak.

philliphn #49 - Yes, I have been to Thailand.

GuestHouse #52 - Yes, I do agree somewhat with you. But I do understand that they are from a part a Thailand that gets very few, if any foreigners.

I am away from it right now. My boyfriend and I are in Canada, and his family is back in

Thailand. I won't have to deal with them until things get more serious or them come back for a visit. And hopefully by that time, some things will have settled.

I know and trust my boyfriend. He was very upset when he came to see me afterwards. I know that he told them off. He's been upset ever since they left for speaking to his mother like that, which he has never done before in his life.

And, to your last comment. I am trying to make peace before the war.

[sutnyod]

GuestHouse #52 - Yes, I do agree somewhat with you. But I do understand that they are from a part a Thailand that gets very few, if any foreigners.

That would be very much opposite from my experiences. I usually go to areas where there are no foreigners (some of them have never even SEEN one, so they wonder endlessly about you, blond hair, blond body hair, blue eyes). Anyway, my experiences, however, are very consistent: the more remote the area, the more welcoming the people are (exception PNG of course). They are curious, some maybe a bit too inquisitive (but not out of bad intent), some might be reserved in the beginning, they might experiment a bit with you like watching you eat the local food, pinching you to see how real you are etc., but they are NEVER NEVER hostile! Especially not in Thailand where I often stay in areas where there is not even a hotel nearby. I actually had thought the parents of your boyfriend were from a tourist area where they might have watched Farangs misbehaving all over....

[bina]

sutnyod,

i agree; i try to imagine anon's parents coming on a plane to israel... ha ha ha.... thye forgot to bring shoes when we went for a day trip to korat, and refused to come to bangkok to the airport; the city was too big and scary for them...

parents that come to a foreign country to visit, and eat in restauraunts, and act snotty-- theyve seen farangs, and probably dealt with them here and there....baanoork types wouldnt do that. they would be pusshing the marriage on their son as a way to a better life etc etc etc

but it does remind me of a past boyfriend in the 1980's thai from bangkok upper middle class on grant to college in states; his parents had a heartattack when he was dating me.i slept with him so wasnt a virgin, they had a girl all picked out, etc etc etc.. and he dropped me after a year and a half, after the usual money matters (my money his 'matters'). only now i understand what actually happened way back when...

but like in any relationship, u gamble on your choice and sometimes it works, and sometimes the most unexpected choice works best....

[GuestHouse]

And, to your last comment. I am trying to make peace before the war.

I don't think you'll get anything until you decide that your terms are as equally valid as theirs, more so in that they relate to your life, not theirs.

[pansted00]

Just forget about these racist morons who don't want to be your parents in law.

Live your life with your boyfriend and see what happens.

[Jersey_UK]

I do feel that folk do tend to get over hung up on things being "Thai" when it comes to relationships.........

OP is simply not good enough for her son.

Don't take it personally! - it sounds to me that no woman will ever be good enough for her son!

None of the above statements has anything whatsoever with being Thai! Do not let them hide behind being "Thai" or "Cultural Differences".

If it was me, on my home turf, I would have spelt out to them during their last visit that they were being just good old fashioned plain rude.........but perhaps that is just me

You being a foreigner is just a conveniant stick to beat her son with, just as the previous gal being too short was!

IMO your B/f has shown a degree of independence to his parents, and without any marriage being planned, I don't see what else is needed at the moment from him. But I read this as a good sign for the future.

But if marriage is planned in the future, unless their is a change in attitude from Mum I would suggest staying in Canada and not being on Mum's home turf or having to deal with her on a regular basis. Out of sight out of mind. For you at least.

If thinking about a future Marriage I would suggest that you really need to have a sit down with mum and dad and find out exactly what the problem is, see if you can allay their fears and spell out that if you cannot all reach some accomadation (even if not perfect) that they risk losing their son and certainly any grandchildren will not be "close" to them.

Not to say that their are not plenty of cross cultural issues to address and that the parents concerns that arise from you being a foreigner should not be addressed - them having concerns simply about you being a foreigner is not racism! - it's largely a matter of them not understanding what it means in practice, being a scared of the result and being Thai have a greater tendency than you to not like things to be different or outside their scope of knowledge. Familiar is just easier. None of this is insurmountable, with good will on BOTH sides.

[solid]

I really have nothing to add on since it looks like your bf is standing up for you already. And that is what really counts in my opinion. Most of the time, Thai parents can be pretty controlling. Your bf has some balls (sorry for the language) to let them know the boundary he has set.

But in my Thai family, they don't have the value of thai-marry-thai or the-rich-marry-the rich thing. But again I am no chinese thai. The point is some are cool with it and some are too narrow minded to deal with it.

To sum up, don't give up trust in your man and see what he can do.

[Khnom]

...Regardless, I have to buffer it and keep it away from my wife for her sake. She is oblivious to any of this...

That was when I posted. No longer.

While checking out recent replies in this thread, I smelled burning food and ran back to the kitchen to finish cooking. In a rush, I didn't close the page. My wife took over the computer and you guessed it, she figured out my post.

So the cats are out of the bag and we talked about it. Good thing this wasn't something bad. Sigh...