Agarwood

[bendix]

The only people I can think of who are making money from Agarwood are the people owning the investment schemes which invest in it. To date, but - sadly - none of their investors or shareholders.

Funny that . . . .

[JungleBiker]

The burning question is. Does Anybody know of a person who has planted these trees and made any money from a harvest??

Paul

Good question but so far no answer. What is the market for this stuff. I'm sure that some people will think that in the future the market will be huge but I'm more interested in learning what the market its now. Does anyone know of anyone who has sold some resin?...how much? what grade? what price?

Chownah

Hi Chownah,

Actually I answered Paul, I said “yes I do” know a person who has planted agarwood trees and made money from the harvest.

Now I will answer your questions:

What is the market for this stuff? Agarwood is mostly traded in two main forms, the wood itself (which is mostly burned like incense) and the oil that is extracted from the wood (and used for perfume, medicine, etc). Another lower value product is the wood residue leftover after extracting oil, this is used to make incense sticks.

Many countries import agarwood/oil; mostly in the Middle East and Far East.

The wood is the more valuable product whereas the oil is usually extracted from the lower value agarwood (containing less oil).

The international trade of agarwood (i.e. the wood) is now controlled by CITES (Convention for the International Trade of Endangered Species) and since much of the wood that is traded internationally does not meet CITES requirements is it traded illegally, i.e. smuggled in suitcases or DHL parcels disguised as some other product (similar to the trade in ivory, rhino horns, tiger bones, etc). Therefore much of the trade does not show up in official import/export statistics. Even so, the current market demand has been estimated at about 6 million kgs per year. In addition to this is the trade of agarwood oil, but I do not have any trade volume estimates for the oil.

The price of agarwood (the wood) varies greatly depending on quality and also the stage of the marketing chain, i.e. retail prices in Saudi Arabia are many times higher than retail prices in Bangkok or ex-factory prices in Laos or Vietnam. (This is to be expected considering the wood is mostly smuggled – the smugglers want to make a good profit considering the risks they take; similar to the drug trade I guess).

Very good quality agarwood from natural trees can sell for over US$10,000 per kilogram.

Good quality agarwood produced from plantation trees treated with CA Kits is currently selling ex-factory at US$1,000/kg in Vietnam and US$5,000/kg in USA (actually retailing via the internet at US$25/5 grams). I could give you the web site address but I don’t want to be accused of blatantly promoting products (even though I have no commercial interest in the web site).

From trees treated at 5 years and harvested at 7 years between 200 – 500 grams of agarwood chips worth US$1 per gram are being harvested by my business associate in Vietnam, hence the value of US$200 – 500 per tree that I mentioned previously (in addition they get about 1 kg of agarwood powder per tree worth about US$30 – 50 that can be used to make oil/incense).

As for oil, there are many exporters in Laos and in Thailand and elsewhere too. According to my business associate in Vietnam the current price is about US$8,500 per litre (I am not sure what grade).

JB.

[JungleBiker]

The only people I can think of who are making money from Agarwood are the people owning the investment schemes which invest in it. To date, but - sadly - none of their investors or shareholders.

Funny that . . . .

Hi Bendix,

There are a lot of cowboys in this business and unfortunately they are creating a bad image for the rest of us. Even so, there are very good opportunities to make money, especially right now, and it is not just the cowboys who doing this. For example, I could introduce you to some small farmers in Bolikhamxay Province of Laos who are selling their 5 year old trees (that contain absolutely no resin) for very good money as living trees ready for treatment.

JB.

[bendix]

There are a lot of cowboys in this business and unfortunately they are creating a bad image for the rest of us. Even so, there are very good opportunities to make money, especially right now, and it is not just the cowboys who doing this. For example, I could introduce you to some small farmers in Bolikhamxay Province of Laos who are selling their 5 year old trees (that contain absolutely no resin) for very good money as living trees ready for treatment.

Thanks Junglebiker. It's been a lifetime ambition of mine to emulate the financial success of small Laotian farmers from Bollockstoallthat Province.

I have two questions for you:

1) Is you zeal for all this on TV over the last few days in any way connected to the lead story in today's BKK Post business section?

2) Do I know you?

[JungleBiker]

There are a lot of cowboys in this business and unfortunately they are creating a bad image for the rest of us. Even so, there are very good opportunities to make money, especially right now, and it is not just the cowboys who doing this. For example, I could introduce you to some small farmers in Bolikhamxay Province of Laos who are selling their 5 year old trees (that contain absolutely no resin) for very good money as living trees ready for treatment.

Thanks Junglebiker. It's been a lifetime ambition of mine to emulate the financial success of small Laotian farmers from Bollockstoallthat Province.

I have two questions for you:

1) Is you zeal for all this on TV over the last few days in any way connected to the lead story in today's BKK Post business section?

2) Do I know you?

Hi Bendix,

I just saw the news in the Bangkok Post (it arrives late here in Laos) and so then I checked into the forum to see what you guys were going to say to me next. Well I think it's very interesting news! I predict that Siam Agarwood and Krissana Panasin (and possibly the Thai patenting authorities) will lose and Touchwood will come out on top. Let's wait and see. I guess it will take a year or three to go through the Thai courts.

About your sarcastic remark concerning the financial success of small Lao farmers, I was simply trying to explain that it is not just the people owning investment schemes who are making money. It's people who own agarwood trees who are or will be making money, whether they own 100 trees or 100,000 trees. I should have explained earlier that CA Kits have only become commercially available in the last 6 months or so and therefore nobody is going to make money out of selling agarwood induced by the CA Kits until about 2 years from now.

As for your second question, how can I know if you know me, if I don't know who you are!? Perhaps you could send me a private message to reveal your identity if you really want to find out.

Best regards,

JB.

[Loom]

Junglebiker, I've seen the US patent on CA (U of Minnesota). I don't understand all the technical terms but the study seems credible as do your discussions of cultivation and economics. I assume that US patent isn't binding in Thailand so we'll have to see how the litigation goes. Between the cowboys and litigation you've got an uphill battle.

[MrSquigle]

We have our own method for inducing ressin, thinking to patent it also then if I can make $25 per tree.

[JungleBiker]

Junglebiker, I've seen the US patent on CA (U of Minnesota). I don't understand all the technical terms but the study seems credible as do your discussions of cultivation and economics. I assume that US patent isn't binding in Thailand so we'll have to see how the litigation goes. Between the cowboys and litigation you've got an uphill battle.

Hi Loom,

Well we certainly do have an uphill battle here in Laos because of the cowboys selling dubious/ineffective treatment techniques. Many of our potential customers (especially those who have already been burnt) automatically assume we are just another cowboy trying to cheat them. However, we are gradually winning confidence and applying our CA Kits here and there and since it is possible to see some significant resin development in less than one year we don't think it will be too long before more and more people start to know that we are genuine and that CA Kits really do work.

As for the litigation, we are not directly linked to Touchwood so we are not involved in this particularly case. Last night I heard from the patent holder (for CA Kits) that there is nothing for us or Touchwood to worry about. I don't want to divulge too much information in a public forum but I will say that if Agarwood Siam continues to pursue this they are going to get themselves into deep trouble. I suspect Agarwood Siam's lawyers are taking advantage of Agarwood Siam's lack of understanding of international patent laws.

By the way, if any forum members are interested to learn about the techniques for cultivating agarwood trees and inducement of resin in the trees, there is an opportunity for a limited number of English-speaking people to participate in a study tour in Vietnam later this year. For further details please contact me by private message.

Best regards,

JB.

P.S. I just want to mention that I call myself JungleBiker because I am a very enthusiastic cyclist (not a Hells Angel).

[JungleBiker]

We have our own method for inducing ressin, thinking to patent it also then if I can make $25 per tree.

Hi Mr Squigle,

In that case you will need a very good patent lawyer. I can highly recommend Mr Rujira Bunnag (as named in the Bangkok Post yesterday, front page of the Business section).

I am sure you can get his contact numbers from Agarwood Siam at http://www.agarwoodsiam.com

Best regards,

JB.

[Jai Dee]

The OP's original question has been answered.

I'm also not so sure about the legality of foreigners working in the Thai forestry business.

There have also been some posts that border on solicitation in this thread.

Given the above, I think it's time to end this discussion.

/Closed.