Question about Fingerprint Scanners at Immigration..

[bluebird729]

Several questions about fingerprint scanners: 

I especially want an answer to the last 2 questions.

 

* Does 'every' immigration (land-crossing & airport) scan fingerprints ?
* Does everyone get scanned? or is it random?

* If 'a friend' who overstayed and was black-listed & fingerprinted upon exit, then changes their name in their home country and re-enters Thailand with the new name in their passport, will they get caught upon entry into Thailand ?

* If a black-listed person (who has been banned for a few years for overstaying) tries to enter Thailand with a new name and is caught, will they simply be denied entry and sent back home? or will they be arrested and stuck in jail?

 

Thank you  :)

 

[novo58]

If a person knows they have been banned from entry.....why even ask the question. Why even try to enter the country.......

[bluebird729]

3 minutes ago, novo58 said:

If a person knows they have been banned from entry.....why even ask the question. Why even try to enter the country.......

I'm not really interested in opinions... really I want answers to the questions..

[proton]

can we still say 'black listed'? ????

[novo58]

It was not an opinion.......you are asking ...how to do something illegal. Anyone who provides an answer...would be considered as aiding and abetting an illegal act. why try to find a way to circumvent the law instead of just abiding by the law .

[bluebird729]

Just now, novo58 said:

It was not an opinion.......you are asking ...how to do something illegal. Anyone who provides an answer...would be considered as aiding and abetting an illegal act. why try to find a way to circumvent the law instead of just abiding by the law .

I'm not asking anyone to find a way around the law.
I am asking a question about the immigration and system.   (for example, if I said:  "what would happen if a man commits fraud, What is the amount of jail time they will receive?")

 So really, please consider this as request for knowledge, rather than asking for ways around the law.
  - I have given a situation and am asking what the rules are.

 

[novo58]

Ok then ..lets use correct terminology ...the " friend" has NOT been black-listed....they have been BANNED from entering the country for a specified period of time . 

[The Hammer2021]

At what point in the entry exit process are finger prints scanned?

I think I was scanned once,  years ago when leaving.

Regarding the OPs questions - it depends on how the system is configured as certainly the system is designed  to detect people based on their bio characteristics rather than paperwork.  I would assume  retinal cameras are an issue and more modern and effective.

So for the time being the answer  to the OPs questions are don't know not sure.

[userabcd]

21 minutes ago, bluebird729 said:

I'm not really interested in opinions... really I want answers to the questions..

You can always ask the immigration directly giving them your friends name and passport scan and see if your friend is allowed to enter via a border.

[CharlieH]

Theres a technical answer and a Thai answer, I would say it entirely depends what happens on the day.

In this country it seems the person/lofficer on the day determines whats gonna happen not much else.

 

Total inconsistency in attitudes /enforcement and which way the wind blows !

[BritManToo]

I don't think the fingerprint scanners work.

[bradiston]

I recently posted a similar question here, put on behalf of a mate who got blacklisted. The most sensible idea, and I followed up on most of them, was, minimal risk trial and error. If your friend flies to say Phnom Penh, then tries a land border crossing, he will

 

1 find out soon enough if he's allowed back in, with minimal aggravation

 

and

 

2 not have far to go if he's not.

 

I tried lawyers and agents, and although everybody was quite helpful, that's what seemed the bottom line most sensible idea. As someone above has pointed out, there are endless possible answers, but they're mostly speculation and guesses. The lawyer I went to here in Pattaya, a very sympathetic German guy, English speaker, said the same. There are no guarantees here in Thailand. What works for one person, once, won't necessarily work twice, or for another person at all, so don't risk a possible really awful few nights in IDC, a forced flight home and probable further blacklisting. As the old saying goes, don't gamble more than you can afford, or are prepared, to lose.

 

YMMV

 

[Caldera]

From my experience just prior to Covid, they now have fingerprint scanners everywhere (including sleepy land border posts). And they use them for everyone, unless the machine is broken.

 

If they determine that a blacklisted person attempts to enter, they deny entry. A more interesting question is what happens if you do gain entry despite being blacklisted. In that case, criminal charges for illegal entry are a likely result.

[FriendlyFarang]

I think even before covid they had scanners at all entry points. So he will be scanned.

The question is just how reliable the system is, but I think nobody here knows that.

[bradiston]

6 minutes ago, Caldera said:

From my experience just prior to Covid, they now have fingerprint scanners everywhere (including sleepy land border posts). And they use them for everyone, unless the machine is broken.

 

If they determine that a blacklisted person attempts to enter, they deny entry. A more interesting question is what happens if you do gain entry despite being blacklisted. In that case, criminal charges for illegal entry are a likely result.

If they stamp you in, I don't see how you can be busted for illegal entry. The whole point being, there doesn't appear to be a way of finding out from immigration if a person is blacklisted without actually trying at the border. I mean, you can't go to your local IO and ask, can you? And from what I could gather, a mate rocking up at his local IO and asking on behalf of his chum won't cut much ice either.

[FriendlyFarang]

5 minutes ago, bradiston said:

If they stamp you in, I don't see how you can be busted for illegal entry. The whole point being, there doesn't appear to be a way of finding out from immigration if a person is blacklisted without actually trying at the border. I mean, you can't go to your local IO and ask, can you? And from what I could gather, a mate rocking up at his local IO and asking on behalf of his chum won't cut much ice either.

Depends on the office, at the busy locations it might be difficult, but the IOs in small provinces who don't have much to do can be quite helpful.

[bradiston]

50 minutes ago, FriendlyFarang said:

Depends on the office, at the busy locations it might be difficult, but the IOs in small provinces who don't have much to do can be quite helpful.

I don't know. I mean, there are data privacy laws in Thailand. Imagine a situation where somebody was making malicious enquiries about a third party. Maybe somebody stirring it, or simply out to "get" someone he had an issue with. If immigration gave out that kind of information to anyone asking for it, it would make a mockery of any privacy laws. And who really would support that kind of laxity? Could be you on the end of it. But as has been said on many occasions, TIT.

 

Even were a lawyer to request that information from immigration, and you can easily imagine a scenario where that might be a quite legitimate request, eg access to children, assets, whatever, according to the lawyer I went to, it's an absolute minefield. But, once again YMMV!

[cyril sneer]

worth just trying, test the system, if refused go to cambodia

[ubonjoe]

If fingerprints do not catch them then facial recognition on entry would get them.

Many people have been snagged by either of them or both.

[Ohyesuare]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

If fingerprints do not catch them then facial recognition on entry would get them.

Many people have been snagged by either of them or both.

Don't forget those trusty BMW smart cars!

[Russell17au]

Some people think that they can just go and change their name and get a new passport and just by-pass everything. That is a false belief because even the new passport has information encrypted in it that links it to the old passport so when your new passport is scanned at the entry point to the country both your face recognition and the information on your passport will hit the alarm bells at immigration. What happens then is that you are not only refused entry but you will be taken to detention centre where you will be charged with attempting to enter the country illegally because you have been banned and you know it and then you can be jailed and deported or your ban will be extended and could lead to a life time ban

[4MyEgo]

7 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

* If 'a friend' who overstayed and was black-listed & fingerprinted upon exit, then changes their name in their home country and re-enters Thailand with the new name in their passport, will they get caught upon entry into Thailand ?

I am assuming the fingerprints belong to the same mate who was blacklisted, suffice to say, one can change their name, but not their fingerprints and when he enters and is scanned as everyone is, he will be asked to leave again.

 

He could go to the expense and fly over and try it on, that said, the risk is higher than not that he would do his $'s spent and regret he attempted it.

 

7 hours ago, bluebird729 said:

* If a black-listed person (who has been banned for a few years for overstaying) tries to enter Thailand with a new name and is caught, will they simply be denied entry and sent back home? or will they be arrested and stuck in jail?

More than likely put in detention and then sent home.

 

Tell your M8 to go to another country where he hasn't been blacklisted, i.e. unless he really wants to try and pull a fast one, which will more than likely be a flop.

 

The world of technology and facial recognition these days is far ahead of the name changers, so the name change means nothing, simple really.

[aussiexpat]

7 hours ago, The Hammer2021 said:

At what point in the entry exit process are finger prints scanned?

I think I was scanned once,  years ago when leaving.

I guess you don't travel much as they've been scanning fingerprints on entry and exit for at least the last 4 years.

 

Also photographs on entry for last 7 years at least, so pic and fingerprints should nail the OP you'd think

[sjbrownderby]

If your 'friend' attempts to enter Thailand with a new passport in a different name and he does get caught, then he will be arrested most surely for attempting to enter Thailand whilst blacklisted using a fake passport. Of course the passport may be legal but the fact your friend is blacklisted and has fingerprints on file will obviously make any IO think that he is using a fake passport to illegally enter the country. Even if the passport is eventually proven to be legal your friend will still face the charge of attempting to enter the country illegally. Is your friend open to the possibility of prison and a further period of exclusion?

 

[NativeBob]

transactions are verrry expensive to "run fingers" of every farang. Facial recognition used in small country in the Middle East costs gassilions so they had to reconsider running "single snout vs. whole database"

Now consider prosperous SE Asian country and how is it possible to pay for "mix'n'match fingerprints". 

So the answer is "hell no". Another one - what is the punishment for illegal entry? fee + overstay + detention center and airport. Can be done within a day, but it depends on lawyer's quality.

Fingerprint scanners are only to collect data, not to send it to some super-computer to search and match. 

[bradiston]

13 minutes ago, sjbrownderby said:

If your 'friend' attempts to enter Thailand with a new passport in a different name and he does get caught, then he will be arrested most surely for attempting to enter Thailand whilst blacklisted using a fake passport. Of course the passport may be legal but the fact your friend is blacklisted and has fingerprints on file will obviously make any IO think that he is using a fake passport to illegally enter the country. Even if the passport is eventually proven to be legal your friend will still face the charge of attempting to enter the country illegally. Is your friend open to the possibility of prison and a further period of exclusion?

 

The problem lies in the fact that it seems problematic to say the least actually finding out if you are blacklisted, or still blacklisted. I don't know if you're told upon release - there must be release papers - or more likely, at the airport, but surely somewhere along the line they would tell you. My mate didn't seem to have any idea. But there must be a formal notification. I think a trip to immigration by a mate to ask them what your friend can do to find out wouldn't go amiss. 

[Grusa]

For definitive strategies to address your friends problem, please view these sources:-

Mission Impossible series, film and tv, James Bond series of films, Dan Brown books and films. Plenty of viable, if messy, ideas in there.

[PETERTHEEATER]

Entering three weeks ago I had difficulty in getting my digits onto the print reader due to the height of the IO desk, it was awkward. I am average male height for a Europen. My Thai wife accompanying is under 5 feet tall and for her to get her finger pads onto scanner really was awkward and the IO had to tilt the scanner until she was satisfied the scan was good!

[Lemsta69]

7 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Theres a technical answer and a Thai answer, I would say it entirely depends what happens on the day.

In this country it seems the person/lofficer on the day determines whats gonna happen not much else.

 

Totalbinconsistency in attitudes /enforcement and which way the wind blows !

this is the way. let's hope it never changes ????

[Sheryl]

12 minutes ago, bradiston said:

The problem lies in the fact that it seems problematic to say the least actually finding out if you are blacklisted, or still blacklisted. I don't know if you're told upon release - there must be release papers - or more likely, at the airport, but surely somewhere along the line they would tell you. My mate didn't seem to have any idea. But there must be a formal notification. I think a trip to immigration by a mate to ask them what your friend can do to find out wouldn't go amiss. 

There aren't any "release papers" or formal notification. One is banned from re-entering the country for a specified period according to how long one overstayed for, and where you surrendered to immigration - airport or other.

 

When did this occur, and how long was the overstay? And did he just leave via the airport or was he caught by immigration before then? (makes a difference to the duration of the ban)

 

Current rules are:

•  Overstaying more than 90 days to one year = one year ban
• Overstaying between 1-3 years, the re-entry ban is three years.
• Overstaying between 3-5 years, the re-entry ban is five years.
• Overstaying more than five years, the re-entry ban is 10 years.

That is if "surrendering at the airport" i.e. the overstay first comes to immigration's attention as one leaves the country at the airport.

 

If caught in-country the penalties are much harsher.

 

He certainly should not attempt to enter on a passport that is nto valid or under an assumed name.

 

As to whether there will be a match up based on fingerprint should he somehow obtain a legal passport under a different name (which would require a legal name change), no one is going to be able to  tell you that for certain.