Biden says U.S. sending medium-range rocket systems to Ukraine

[onthedarkside]

 

WASHINGTON (AP) — The Biden administration says it will send Ukraine a small number of high-tech, medium-range rocket systems, a critical weapon that Ukrainian leaders have been begging for as they struggle to stall Russian progress in the Donbas region.

 

The rocket systems are part of a new $700 million tranche of security assistance for Ukraine from the U.S. that will include helicopters, Javelin anti-tank weapon systems, tactical vehicles, spare parts and more, two senior administration officials said Tuesday. The officials spoke on the condition of anonymity to preview the weapons package that will be formally unveiled on Wednesday.

 

(more)

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-technology-government-and-politics-d3265158d6fff41594d247340fa4d53a

 

[onthedarkside]

West promises Ukraine more, better arms to fend off Russia

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — The U.S. and Germany pledged to send Ukraine some of the most advanced weapons yet for shooting down aircraft and knocking out artillery as Russian forces waging a grinding offensive in the east Wednesday closed in on capturing a key city.

 

Germany said Wednesday it will supply Ukraine with modern anti-aircraft missiles and radar systems, and the U.S. planned to unveil a new weapons package later in the day that includes high-tech, medium-range rocket systems.

 

The U.S. is trying to strike a balance by helping Ukraine battle ferocious Russian artillery barrages while not providing weapons that could allow Ukraine to hit targets deep inside Russia and trigger an escalation of the war.

 

(more)

 

https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-kyiv-technology-4f8e7d017b5fd67d80fb42d23b27b3c1

 

[Jingthing]

Biden is justifiably gaining great popularity and respect as a leader in the west because of his leadership with helping Ukraine. But unfortunately for him, in the West of the U.S. (and elsewhere) his poll numbers are in the toilet. Normally success in war leadership helps incumbent presidents politically but not this time (domestic problems). This missile decision is a reasonable compromise although I wouldn't blame Ukraine for wanting to bomb Moscow after what genocidal war criminal Putin has done to them. 

[Rimmer]

Off topic post and replies removed

[Jingthing]

As I said:

 

https://www.newsweek.com/biden-sinking-us-polls-seen-europe-rising-star-democracy-1711516

 

 

Biden, Sinking in U.S. Polls, Seen in Europe As Rising Star for Democracy

 

 

As President Joe Biden struggles to reverse a steady decline in popularity at home, the U.S. leader's efforts to champion democracy across the globe has generated some positive reviews among allies in Europe, according to a new study published by the Denmark-based Alliance of Democracies Foundation and Germany-based Latana data tracking firm.

---

 

Biden has done poorly on some things, but very well on others

 

Credit where credit is due.

 

No president has ever been perfect. Even Lincoln.

[Jingthing]

31 minutes ago, zackz said:

such as....these key fundamentals?

• Stock market recession
• Food shortages
• Record high gas prices
• Record high inflation
• Record high crime
• Border immigration crisis
• Proxy war with nuclear armed Russia

Biden should concentrate on fixing the cock-ups on the domestic front and not on trying to stoke the flames for a 3rd WW.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-joe-biden-helped-create-crisis-over-ukraine

Biden is a train wreck and to suggest otherwise is nothing but delusion.

Cato Institute is isolationist. A very biased source indeed.

 

https://www.axios.com/2022/05/23/republicans-plot-foreign-intervention-pullback

 

 

Republicans plot foreign intervention pullback

 

Republican lawmakers — following former President Trump's lead — are working with a wide range of conservative groups to pull back American support for Ukraine, the Middle East and Europe, officials tell us.

Why it matters: With the GOP poised to retake control of the House and perhaps the Senate next year, this contingent could grow substantially. Trump is backing candidates who've explicitly broken with Republican foreign policy orthodoxy.

 

‐---

I could counter your other points but too off topic.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Jingthing

[Berkshire]

32 minutes ago, zackz said:

such as....these key fundamentals?

• Stock market recession
• Food shortages
• Record high gas prices
• Record high inflation
• Record high crime
• Border immigration crisis
• Proxy war with nuclear armed Russia

Biden should concentrate on fixing the cock-ups on the domestic front and not on trying to stoke the flames for a 3rd WW.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-joe-biden-helped-create-crisis-over-ukraine

Biden is a train wreck and to suggest otherwise is nothing but delusion.

I don't see how a President has direct control over the matters you mention.  But no matter.  I still wake up every day and thank God that the disaster named Trump is no longer President.  God Bless America!

[connda]

Good.  I can't wait for them to start firing rockets into Russian cities.
Let's get the game going! 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Funny how history seems to repeat itself...

 

The same people complaining now about Biden's support and military aid for Ukraine are probably of the same mentality as those who didn't want FDR to confront Hitler and didn't want the U.S. to to provide military support for the Allies prior to WWII... Hitler could negotiated with, after all...  And we know how that turned out.

 

Russia, under Putin, is an expansionist dictatorship that's oppressing its own people and looking to enlarge its hegemony over surrounding countries, either directly or indirectly. In this case, Russia invaded a sovereign nation and budding democracy without any legitimate justification, as part of an effort to begin to reassemble the former Soviet Union countries under Russian control.

 

Unlike his predecessor, at least Biden is confronting Russia over its expansionist efforts. Putin got away with the same approach with his invasion and takeover of Crimea before -- which Trump in retrospect spoke approvingly of -- so why not repeat the same playbook again.

 

"Over dinner at the recent Group of Seven summit, according to BuzzFeed, he [Trump] told other summit participants that Crimea is Russian because the population of the peninsula speaks Russian.

...

This isn’t the first time that Trump has repeated Russian arguments for the annexation. During his presidential campaign in the summer of 2016, he told an interviewer that “the people of Crimea, from what I’ve heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were.”

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2018/07/03/donald-trumps-talking-points-on-crimea-are-the-same-as-vladimir-putins/

 

Yes, the U.S. economy might be better and oil prices might be lower were it not for the Ukraine war. But are those reasons that would justify the U.S. instead having taken a Trumpian approach to Ukraine and just sit on the sidelines (and who knows... maybe applaud?). I'd  say NO...

 

And why?  The answer is already is the news now:

 

Russian TV Says Poland Next Target for Invasion

June 1, 2022

 

"NATO member Poland could be the next target of a Russian invasion as the war in Ukraine drags on, according to pro-Kremlin Russian TV channel Russia-1.

 

Presenter Olga Skabeeva, host of the "60 Minutes" talk show and one of Russia's most prominent state propagandists, was quoted by Daily Beast journalist Julia Davis as saying that Russia should smash Western countries after Ukraine, starting with its neighbor Poland.

...

Perhaps it's time to acknowledge that maybe Russia's special operation in Ukraine has come to an end, in a sense that a real war had started: World War III. We're forced to conduct the demilitarization not only of Ukraine, but of the entire NATO alliance."

 

https://www.newsweek.com/russian-tv-says-poland-next-target-invasion-1711967

 

Putin is essentially telling the world, I'm gonna invade and take over whatever countries and terrain I want. And if you try to stop me, then I'm going to wage war against you as well... That's a repeat of Hitler's WWII playbook. The U.S. didn't stand for it then, and shouldn't stand for it now.

 

[connda]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Unlike his predecessor, at least Biden is confronting Russia over its expansionist efforts. Putin got away with the same approach with his invasion and takeover of Crimea before -- which Trump in retrospect spoke approvingly of -- so why not repeat the same playbook again.

Not enough.  It's time to send in the long range rockets and missiles - as well as putting Western troops on the ground.  Proxy wars accomplish nothing
Time to lock and load, and rock and roll.  All of NATO needs to be involved with US troops on the ground leading the way to Freedom and Democracy.  Giving a few weapons here and their isn't enough.  It's time for the young generation to sign up and fight for Freedom and Democracy and it's time to all free and democratic nations to take a united stand

[billd766]

4 hours ago, zackz said:

such as....these key fundamentals?

• Stock market recession
• Food shortages
• Record high gas prices
• Record high inflation
• Record high crime
• Border immigration crisis
• Proxy war with nuclear armed Russia

Biden should concentrate on fixing the cock-ups on the domestic front and not on trying to stoke the flames for a 3rd WW.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-joe-biden-helped-create-crisis-over-ukraine

Biden is a train wreck and to suggest otherwise is nothing but delusion.

Strange that you quote a link that is 5 months old.

 

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-joe-biden-helped-create-crisis-over-ukraine

 

With respect to U.S. policy toward Ukraine, it now is fairly certain that American military forces are not likely to become involved directly.

JANUARY 25, 2022 • COMMENTARY
By Ted Galen Carpenter

 

What should Biden have done in YOUR opinion?

 

Walk away from the Ukraine which effectively abandons over 40 million people and an independent sovereign nation to a rapacious dictator.

 

I suspect that Trump would have done that, but that is only my personal opinion.

 

Appeasement never works in the long term.

[Lacessit]

4 hours ago, zackz said:

such as....these key fundamentals?

• Stock market recession
• Food shortages
• Record high gas prices
• Record high inflation
• Record high crime
• Border immigration crisis
• Proxy war with nuclear armed Russia

Biden should concentrate on fixing the cock-ups on the domestic front and not on trying to stoke the flames for a 3rd WW.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-joe-biden-helped-create-crisis-over-ukraine

Biden is a train wreck and to suggest otherwise is nothing but delusion.

You'd prefer Trump was back in the White House, kissing Putin's butt and playing golf? The train wreck would be ten times worse.

Record high gas prices, food shortages and inflation are all down to Putin's war, unless the West just let the Russians roll over Ukraine. That would only be the start, Putin wants to reconstitute the USSR all the way to East Germany.

The Cato Institute advocates non-intervention in foreign affairs, no surprise they would not agree with Biden. Blaming Biden for what Russia has caused is wrong.

TBH, I thought the article was dumber than a can of soup. You don't negotiate with dictators.

Edited June 2, 2022 by Lacessit

[billd766]

3 hours ago, SunnyinBangrak said:

 

 Biden should have negotiated before this whole Ukraine thing escalated to a (proxy) war between Russia and the US leaving everybody perilously close to nuclear conflict. The last guy would never have let this happen.

You are correct. Trump would never have let this happen.

 

He would have tied the Ukraine up in a pretty bow and given it, with its 40 odd million people to Russia on a gilt plate.

[Mac Mickmanus]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Biden is justifiably gaining great popularity and respect as a leader in the west because of his leadership with helping Ukraine. But unfortunately for him, in the West of the U.S. (and elsewhere) his poll numbers are in the toilet. Normally success in war leadership helps incumbent presidents politically but not this time (domestic problems). This missile decision is a reasonable compromise although I wouldn't blame Ukraine for wanting to bomb Moscow after what genocidal war criminal Putin has done to them. 

Biden and the USA have been quite anonymous in the Russian/Ukrainian conflict .

   All I can recall is Biden making an attempt at a speech, whilst reading from the auto cue aboutut something like "The Russians might win, but they wont win the spirt of the Ukrainians, " or something like that .

    IMO, Biden should have sent Kamala Harris to meet with the Russians , say in Singapore or somewhere neutral and tried to find a peaceful solution , rather than just sending rockets and money 

[Mac Mickmanus]

9 minutes ago, billd766 said:

You are correct. Trump would never have let this happen.

 

He would have tied the Ukraine up in a pretty bow and given it, with its 40 odd million people to Russia on a gilt plate.

Lets try and focus on the present, rather than talking about the past .

(Yes, I know, it wasn't you who started talking about Trump, it was someone else)

[Lacessit]

6 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Biden and the USA have been quite anonymous in the Russian/Ukrainian conflict .

   All I can recall is Biden making an attempt at a speech, whilst reading from the auto cue aboutut something like "The Russians might win, but they wont win the spirt of the Ukrainians, " or something like that .

    IMO, Biden should have sent Kamala Harris to meet with the Russians , say in Singapore or somewhere neutral and tried to find a peaceful solution , rather than just sending rockets and money 

I seem to remember Chamberlain tried to find a peaceful solution with Hitler, we all know how that panned out.

IMO the best way to deal with dictators is to send them home with a bloody nose.

[onthedarkside]

A trolling post and several ensuing replies have been removed.

 

[connda]

Just now, Lacessit said:

I seem to remember Chamberlain tried to find a peaceful solution with Hitler, we all know how that panned out.

IMO the best way to deal with dictators is to send them home with a bloody nose.

It's time for the forces of Good to meet the forces of Evil on the global battlegrounds and for the righteous to prevail - let the chips fall where they may - to usher in a  new world order - God willing.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, connda said:

It's time for the forces of Good to meet the forces of Evil on the global battlegrounds and for the righteous to prevail - let the chips fall where they may - to usher in a  new world order - God willing.

 

I suspect you're being sarcastic in your post here and a similar one you did just prior...

 

Sorry to burst your bubble, but no, Biden fortunately for all of us, has taken a restrained but purposeful approach to combating Russian aggression in Eastern Europe.

 

He's not standing idly by and letting them walk in unchallenged like others before have done or would have done. But neither is he taking overly provocative actions that would expand the current conflict beyond Ukraine or result in the use of nuclear weapons.

 

That's what a thoughtful, world-aware president would do.... too much for the isolationists....and not enough for those looking to start World War III...  I'm OK with his thus far middle-ground approach.

 

[Mac Mickmanus]

11 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

I seem to remember Chamberlain tried to find a peaceful solution with Hitler, we all know how that panned out.

IMO the best way to deal with dictators is to send them home with a bloody nose.

So, you are in favour of World War three and you think that the Biden and the USA should lead the Western World into a war with Russia and defeat Putin, like what happened in World War two ?

[TKDfella]

Ha! Jingthing, never miss a chance to make it a political debate eh?

As for the war itself, it is very difficult to form an opinion. Has Pres. Putin done what he wanted to do in Ukraine? That is, to take over certain parts and not others. With reports from various outlets it would seem that he made a mess of it with what would appear to be indiscriminate bombing etc killing many. Or was that intentional so as to anger other nations about the carnage and provoke the 'western allies' into a full scale war? I don't actually know but I would think the US is not the only country that could supply long range missiles and it would seem that none have done so...yet. 

Edited June 2, 2022 by TKDfella

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 minute ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So, you are in favour of World War three and you think that the Biden and the USA should lead the Western World into a war with Russia and defeat Putin, like what happened in World War two ?

 

 

I think his analogy was -- best to have stopped Hitler / stop Putin BEFORE they have taken over a good portion of Europe...

[connda]

4 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So, you are in favour of World War three and you think that the Biden and the USA should lead the Western World into a war with Russia and defeat Putin, like what happened in World War two ?

There are plenty of metaphors about what happens if you ignore the schoolyard bully as apposed to standing up to the schoolyard bully.

There is risk involved.  You may get your butt beat.  But then, often you find out exactly what the schoolyard bully is made out of and the success of beating the bully makes the schoolyard as safe haven instead of a place of constant fear. 

Perhaps it's time to stand up and fight for all that is Good and righteous.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, connda said:

It's time for the forces of Good to meet the forces of Evil on the global battlegrounds and for the righteous to prevail - let the chips fall where they may - to usher in a  new world order - God willing.

I don't think ordinary Russians are evil, just brainwashed.

Russia is now a pariah nation, it can't get foreign investment. Its domestic aviation industry will be a shambles within a year. The EU has banned Russian oil, no income. The Indians and Chinese won't be able to restore that income for years, the logistics of moving oil to those countries don't exist. It is shut out of the global financial system, most foreign companies have fled.

IMO Russia has already lost the war it started, it just doesn't realize it. That's what happens when dictators surround themselves with yes-men.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

 

I think his analogy was -- best to have stopped Hitler / stop Putin BEFORE they have taken over a good portion of Europe...

Putin has no intention of taking over Europe though , its actually NATO/E.U. that wants to expand their influence into the Eastern Block by aligning themselves with Ukraine , at the expense of Russia 

[Bruno123]

5 hours ago, zackz said:

such as....these key fundamentals?

• Stock market recession
• Food shortages
• Record high gas prices
• Record high inflation
• Record high crime
• Border immigration crisis
• Proxy war with nuclear armed Russia

Biden should concentrate on fixing the cock-ups on the domestic front and not on trying to stoke the flames for a 3rd WW.

https://www.cato.org/commentary/how-joe-biden-helped-create-crisis-over-ukraine

Biden is a train wreck and to suggest otherwise is nothing but delusion.

 

I'm confused. How is President Biden responsible for any of those things? Is this typical of the ignorance displayed in political discussions in the USA?

Are you stating that under Trump none of this would have occurred, as he would have gone along with the Russian invasion?

Lie, deny and moving the goalposts is what Trump shares with the Russians. 

 

[Bruno123]

3 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Putin has no intention of taking over Europe though , its actually NATO/E.U. that wants to expand their influence into the Eastern Block by aligning themselves with Ukraine , at the expense of Russia 

Did you speak to Putin about this or is this just your opinion dressed up as fact?

[Lacessit]

10 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

So, you are in favour of World War three and you think that the Biden and the USA should lead the Western World into a war with Russia and defeat Putin, like what happened in World War two ?

I'm in favor of letting the sanctions work, and supporting the Ukrainians. Both tacks are winning.

The only person who can start WW 3 is Putin, and he knows once he starts using nukes, Russia would be annihilated along with everyone else.

I suspect he also knows now his military is not up to snuff against the combined NATO countries in terms of morale, organization, and technology.

[Mac Mickmanus]

5 minutes ago, connda said:

There are plenty of metaphors about what happens if you ignore the schoolyard bully as apposed to standing up to the schoolyard bully.

There is risk involved.  You may get your butt beat.  But then, often you find out exactly what the schoolyard bully is made out of and the success of beating the bully makes the schoolyard as safe haven instead of a place of constant fear. 

Perhaps it's time to stand up and fight for all that is Good and righteous.

I do admire your stance about standing up to bullys and fighting back against them . Standing up and fighting against evil dictators and fighting for what is good and righteous .

   That is the spirit that won previous wars against evil  .

We need to stand up and fight against them .

The World needs brave Men like you . 

When do you intend flying back to Europe  and joining the army to fight the Russians ? 

   Will you be joining the Ukrainian Army ?

[Lacessit]

8 minutes ago, Mac Mickmanus said:

Putin has no intention of taking over Europe though , its actually NATO/E.U. that wants to expand their influence into the Eastern Block by aligning themselves with Ukraine , at the expense of Russia 

I suggest you check back on what Putin has said repeatedly, he wants to restore the USSR to its former glory. IIRC, the USSR extended all the way to a partitioned Germany.