School Fees Why So High

[highchol]

[school name edited by IJWT]

Revenue 880 kids @ avrge 400k baht each approx 350 mil

costs 108 teachers @ say avrge 80k/ mnth approx 100 mil

100 guess local staff @say 10k /mnth approx 12 mil

utilitys @ say 12 mil yr

maint materials @ say 20 mil / yr

school equip @ say 10 mil yr

admin costs @ say 10 mil / yr

build / dep say 25mil / yr

costs tot approx 190 mil

Ive left out profits on boarding fees/ lunch/ transport/ ESL / interest on deposits.

leaves 160 mil for somebody to enjoy!.....

Am I missing something apart from the 900k baht ive just coughed up , are these numbers too simplistic?

[Ijustwannateach]

Highchol, we have an anti-school-slagging policy here in the Teacher's Subforum. If you want to name and shame, please take it (as always) to TEFLwatch forum. As long as you simply want to discuss outrageous school fees here (without naming your school), please feel free.

[leisurely]

Is it an International school or local? In any case, have you considered some of the staff members children will be getting bursaries, cost of medical insurance for staff and housing and flight allowances. I am at a loss as to why you are so cross. You pay your money after you've chosen a school and if you weren't happy with it, you shouldn't have picked that particular school.

[alleykat]

400,000 baht? Is that per year or per semester?

If it is per year then is a lower level International School. 3rd or 4th tier. The fees for a real international school for a year are around one million baht. As far as I am aware there are only about 5 or 6 of these in Bangkok.

[Scott]

There is no doubt that many schools are a business and are set up to make money, but that said there are a lot of hidden costs. Like the cost of work permits and visas. Then there are the costs of hiring replacement teachers while these people are getting their visas and work permits.

That's just one example, there are a lot more.

[highchol]

Highchol, we have an anti-school-slagging policy here in the Teacher's Subforum. If you want to name and shame, please take it (as always) to TEFLwatch forum. As long as you simply want to discuss outrageous school fees here (without naming your school), please feel free.

Ijustwannateach

The post was indeed to promote discussion on the justification of what would seem to be rather high school fees. I apologise for including a school name in the post which lead to the interpretation of "slagging off " a particular school...it was not what I intended.

[highchol]

Is it an International school or local? In any case, have you considered some of the staff members children will be getting bursaries, cost of medical insurance for staff and housing and flight allowances. I am at a loss as to why you are so cross. You pay your money after you've chosen a school and if you weren't happy with it, you shouldn't have picked that particular school.

Yes you pays your money you make your choice...7-11 put penny on a loaf bread you go elsewhere...they jack up school fees you move your kids!

Edited June 21, 2007 by highchol

[alleykat]

If the school fees are 400,000 baht per year then the teachers most likely won't be getting 80k per month, they'll most likely be getting about 50k per month. Thats for native speakers. If they're Filipinos it will be a lot less than that.

[highchol]

The figures I came up with I thought conservative, averages some teachers may get a little more some will get less. I also included a figure for admin costs but not wanting to get bogged down in details the fact remains that a huge chunk of money approx 50% of revenue I cant reasonably account for..

[PeaceBlondie]

I had a long reply, which got lost, so I'll try to be brief.

Cost accountants say "the devil is in the details." We may be missing or mis-stating huge costs. But what does it really matter? We're employees, not owners.

Who cares if we contract ourselves at XX baht per month, and the employer is making or losing millions?

[highchol]

I had a long reply, which got lost, so I'll try to be brief.

Cost accountants say "the devil is in the details." We may be missing or mis-stating huge costs. But what does it really matter? We're employees, not owners.

Who cares if we contract ourselves at XX baht per month, and the employer is making or losing millions?

Im coming from the parent or paying angle...I care.

I dont mind people making a profit, their not a charity .... but a reasonable one.

If the teachers were getiing the lions share I could live with that...a school largest expense is normally due to teachers salaries?

[wolfmanjack]

do the schools pay for 12 months ??

108 foreign teachers and 100 local teachers ??? For 880 kids ?? That would be a little over 4 kids per teacher.

[highchol]

do the schools pay for 12 months ??

108 foreign teachers and 100 local teachers ??? For 880 kids ?? That would be a little over 4 kids per teacher.

100 local staff

100 would include a few local thai teachers ..rest admin , cleaners , maintenance staff etc

forgot to answer..I allowed ( generously ) for teacher being payed for 12 months..maybe a teacher could answer if this is the case or not...

Edited June 22, 2007 by highchol

[wolfmanjack]

do the schools pay for 12 months ??

108 foreign teachers and 100 local teachers ??? For 880 kids ?? That would be a little over 4 kids per teacher.

100 local staff

100 would include a few local thai teachers ..rest admin , cleaners , maintenance staff etc

108 foreign teachers would still be pretty good for 880 kids. A little over 8 students per teacher. Must be a decent school if they are averaging 960,000 per teacher per school year and only have 8 kids per teacher average.

The average student to teacher ration in the USA public schools is around 15

Edited June 22, 2007 by wolfmanjack

[Moonfruit]

This will be the first time ive posted on the education forum, but i just had to reply to the comment above RE: 3rd and 4th tier schools.

Unfortunately, expats here often dont research education properly before enrolling their child in a school. I speak from experience.

My daughter went to a "1st tier?" international school because of her language ability. We had no choice. She didnt speak any Thai. However, the actual education in that school i thought was terrible. Sure, they had sports fields coming out of their ears, all the facilities that you could dream of but the tuition really, sucked. Thats what i thought as an involved parent anyway.

She now goes to a "3rd tier" international school (to use the terminology above). Fees are less than half of the price of the original school, but the education is far superior. You can see it just in my daughters attitude to school.

Im very active in the education of my daughters. Most expat parents dont have that luxury, but i would implore all parents not just to go on name and status of schools. The bottom line is that they are a business, and therefore you should check them out before paying them money. You wouldnt hire a contractor to renovate your house without checking them out right?

Luckily, my second daughter was born here in Thailand and when she approaches schooling age, she will go to a Thai school. In my opinion, certain Thai schools are far superior to international schools anyway.

I could go on and on about the state of education here, but i will hold my tongue (fingers?) as im sure its all been said before!

[Loaded]

Nobody has mentioned the cost of the land and building. Blooooody expensive to service a mortgage on a purpose built school on 50 Rai in Bangkok.

[highchol]

Nobody has mentioned the cost of the land and building. Blooooody expensive to service a mortgage on a purpose built school on 50 Rai in Bangkok.

Aloowed a bit for that:-

build / dep say 25mil / yr

[highchol]

This will be the first time ive posted on the education forum, but i just had to reply to the comment above RE: 3rd and 4th tier schools.

Unfortunately, expats here often dont research education properly before enrolling their child in a school. I speak from experience.

My daughter went to a "1st tier?" international school because of her language ability. We had no choice. She didnt speak any Thai. However, the actual education in that school i thought was terrible. Sure, they had sports fields coming out of their ears, all the facilities that you could dream of but the tuition really, sucked. Thats what i thought as an involved parent anyway.

She now goes to a "3rd tier" international school (to use the terminology above). Fees are less than half of the price of the original school, but the education is far superior. You can see it just in my daughters attitude to school.

Im very active in the education of my daughters. Most expat parents dont have that luxury, but i would implore all parents not just to go on name and status of schools. The bottom line is that they are a business, and therefore you should check them out before paying them money. You wouldnt hire a contractor to renovate your house without checking them out right?

Luckily, my second daughter was born here in Thailand and when she approaches schooling age, she will go to a Thai school. In my opinion, certain Thai schools are far superior to international schools anyway.

I could go on and on about the state of education here, but i will hold my tongue (fingers?) as im sure its all been said before!

Moonfruit

Could you mention so as not to upset the mods..they seem to allow schools you would recommend and schools you wouldnt recommend.

Edited June 23, 2007 by highchol

[Moonfruit]

This will be the first time ive posted on the education forum, but i just had to reply to the comment above RE: 3rd and 4th tier schools.

Unfortunately, expats here often dont research education properly before enrolling their child in a school. I speak from experience.

My daughter went to a "1st tier?" international school because of her language ability. We had no choice. She didnt speak any Thai. However, the actual education in that school i thought was terrible. Sure, they had sports fields coming out of their ears, all the facilities that you could dream of but the tuition really, sucked. Thats what i thought as an involved parent anyway.

She now goes to a "3rd tier" international school (to use the terminology above). Fees are less than half of the price of the original school, but the education is far superior. You can see it just in my daughters attitude to school.

Im very active in the education of my daughters. Most expat parents dont have that luxury, but i would implore all parents not just to go on name and status of schools. The bottom line is that they are a business, and therefore you should check them out before paying them money. You wouldnt hire a contractor to renovate your house without checking them out right?

Luckily, my second daughter was born here in Thailand and when she approaches schooling age, she will go to a Thai school. In my opinion, certain Thai schools are far superior to international schools anyway.

I could go on and on about the state of education here, but i will hold my tongue (fingers?) as im sure its all been said before!

Moonfruit

Could you mention so as not to upset the mods..they seem to allow schools you would recommend and schools you wouldnt recommend.

Sent you a Pm as i dont want to get flamed for promotion!

[alaina]

This will be the first time ive posted on the education forum, but i just had to reply to the comment above RE: 3rd and 4th tier schools.

Unfortunately, expats here often dont research education properly before enrolling their child in a school. I speak from experience.

My daughter went to a "1st tier?" international school because of her language ability. We had no choice. She didnt speak any Thai. However, the actual education in that school i thought was terrible. Sure, they had sports fields coming out of their ears, all the facilities that you could dream of but the tuition really, sucked. Thats what i thought as an involved parent anyway.

She now goes to a "3rd tier" international school (to use the terminology above). Fees are less than half of the price of the original school, but the education is far superior. You can see it just in my daughters attitude to school.

Im very active in the education of my daughters. Most expat parents dont have that luxury, but i would implore all parents not just to go on name and status of schools. The bottom line is that they are a business, and therefore you should check them out before paying them money. You wouldnt hire a contractor to renovate your house without checking them out right?

I could go on and on about the state of education here, but i will hold my tongue (fingers?) as im sure its all been said before!

I agree that many "top tier" international schools aren't really top tier anymore. Many parents look at the school facilities and assume that they can make a judgment on the quality of a school. It really doesn't matter if a school has state of the art science labs if the teacher doesn't know how to use the stuff.

Funny thing is that I think that the amount of competition amongst international schools has made some of the established ones get worse, not better. Some of the top tier schools have put some of my students through "rigorous" admissions testing and accepted children who really should not be in international school at all. The only real test that some schools care about is the parent's ability to pay. How is any teacher going to teach a class where some kids can't read and others are native speakers and quite bright? It can be done, but not as well as what parents are paying for.

[chatette]

I pay about 300,000 baht a year for my child's primary school education and don't begrudge one satang of it. I'm sure, though, one's experience depends entirely on the particular school, to a certain extent, the class teacher, as well as personal expectations. Coming from Brussels, we chose the only school able to offer language continuity, even tho we parents don't speak that language. In the event, the only similarity in curricula was the language, which meant a struggle to catch up this past school year. The school administration and the teacher were exemplary in helping our child achieve that without her feeling like she was lagging behind in the catch up.

I have friends who put their children into a Thai school ( famous, royalty-linked) when returning after long stints abroad because aren't able to afford international school rates, and the children, while literate, have suffered dreadfully simply because of the difference in teaching methodology and the inflexibility of the school/teachers to help the children adjust. Others, sending children to a different Thai school (known only to take girls, with Christian affiliation) have experienced much more flexibility in helping the children settle in.

I really don't think it's so much that you get what you pay for as selecting a school that meets the criteria you need. We were lucky that the only school in town that teaches in the language of our choice happens to be extremely good. It's much more difficult if you're choosing English or Thai as the options are so much wider. It's a shame we can't name schools here as it would be useful for parents to gauge the experience of others.

[Ijustwannateach]

There's no rule against *complimenting* schools or making gentle comparatives. Just no slagging off or material that could be interpreted as libellous in connection with a school name.

[rethaired]

I pay about 300,000 baht a year for my child's primary school education and don't begrudge one satang of it. [...]

I really don't think it's so much that you get what you pay for as selecting a school that meets the criteria you need. We were lucky that the only school in town that teaches in the language of our choice happens to be extremely good. It's much more difficult if you're choosing English or Thai as the options are so much wider. It's a shame we can't name schools here as it would be useful for parents to gauge the experience of others.

If you don't begrudge one satang, do you begrudge the rest or 299,999,999 satangs?

300,000 Bahts is not exactly pocket money in Thailand and one would expect that you would get good or excellent teaching, which includes teaching children who struggle or who need to be phased in, as in the case of your child. But, you are right! It looks like you were lucky!

As for the naming of school bit, does TV have any schools as sponsors?

Edited March 21, 2008 by rethaired

[PeaceBlondie]

Our rules allow you to mention schools you do or don't recommend, but not to elaborate. The topic for schools you recommend is here, you can go directly to http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...;hl=Schools+you. See the rules on post #1.

[culicine]

I agree that many Thai schools are actually quite good, especially for primary and lower secondary education. Many of my best students could mix it with the best in a Western school. However, as a senior secondary teacher of mathematics in an EP, I see many problems. This is mainly due to the inflecibility of the Thai curriculum to meet the students needs and interests (how many kids in the west have to do 17 subjects in grade 12!!! - and the same subjects that were done in primary school), and also lack of external exams (in english) for these students. There is also little in the way of Special Education in these school. So if your child has special needs, don;t expect anything to be done. They will just, by and large, be passed. The 'no fail' policy also doesn't help the situation. When my son hits grade 10 he will be back on a plane to finish highschool in Australia, and go to University there also..hopefully!!