Submersible Pump Wiring

[carlyai]

I have a FROG 0.5 HP submersible pump. It had a 3 wire connected control box and all worked OK. 

Control box wiring picture included.

I installed an Intelligent Pump control box with different  control wiring diagram. Picture included. 

I wired the pump as per the Intelligent Pump wiring diagram and the pump doesn't work.

Should the pump work in this Intelligent Pump wiring configuration?

I reconnected the pump with the old control box, right at the point the cable goes down the bore, and the pump doesn't work.

So I've either dislodged the pump power cable or blown up the pump.

I've replaced the capacitor.

Any ideas?

The first picture is the FROG box connection.

The second pic. is the Intelligent Pump connection.

I'm also not sure of my electrical theory: if the capacitor is wired in parellel with the motor, at start up XC will be very low so overall parallel cct. Z will be low so maximum current to start the motor.

If the capacitor is wired in series with the motor I leads E at start up so max. current to motor.

Is a start capacitor wired in series or parellel with the motor?

 

[Crossy]

Start caps are in series with the relevant winding as shown in your first diagram.

 

I doubt you've fried the pump you should re-check the wiring of the original box and get it working with that first.

 

How did you connect your pump to the new controller?

 

[bankruatsteve]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

How did you connect your 4 wire pump to that 3 wire controller??

The 4 wires to the pump are L,N,E,Capacitor.  I wonder why it only shows the capacitor connected?

[Crossy]

Yeah I see that now, my eyes are not good enough to read the wire labelling.

 

As noted, get it going with the old controller first.

 

If it still won't go, it's time to get the meter out and check the winding continuity.

 

L and one winding go to one end of the cap, the other winding goes to the other end of the cap then both free ends of windings go to N. Although I note that the original drawing has the cap on the neutral side, shouldn't matter.

 

[bankruatsteve]

Make sure you didn't trip anything.  ????

[carlyai]

I did reinstall the origional Fox controller after the Intelligent Controller didn't work, but the pump didn't work. 

 

I connected the wiring to the Intelligent Pump as it showed on the circuit diagram. Pump didn't work.

 

[carlyai]

48 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Make sure you didn't trip anything.  ????

Trip reset pressed and nothing tripped.

[carlyai]

I can't see how I could have blown up the motor as 220V anyway is still 220V across the motor winding.

How could I have blown up the motor? Or, what combination of wires would blown up the motor?

I did try a few combinations when the Intelligent Controller didn't work. ????

[bankruatsteve]

These pumps are resilient so I don't think you blew it up.  How did you measure 220V across the windings?  Make sure you have 220V between L and N on the incomer.

[carlyai]

18 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

These pumps are resilient so I don't think you blew it up.  How did you measure 220V across the windings?  Make sure you have 220V between L and N on the incomer.

I didn't actually measure 220v across the windings, was just sayjng that I can't see how I could blow the motor up. Even puttkng 220v across the winding shouldn't blow it up. I think.

 

[Crossy]

Have you made it work as originally wired??? I think that has to be task A.

 

Have you verified continuity of the two motor windings to the common??

 

I assume the pump is till down the well so "doesn't work" means it's not pumping. swapping the two windings by accident would make the pump run backwards so, of course, it won't pump.

 

Can you do a clearer shot of the existing diagram, we can then tell you what to put where for correct operation with the new controller.

[carlyai]

4 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Have you made it work as originally wired??? I think that has to be task A.

 

Have you verified continuity of the two motor windings to the common??

 

I assume the pump is till down the well so "doesn't work" means it's not pumping. swapping the two windings by accident would make the pump run backwards so, of course, it won't pump.

 

Can you do a clearer shot of the existing diagram, we can then tell you what to put where for correct operation with the new controller.

Ok will take more photos. 

There's no vibration of the water pipes, so I presume the pump isn"t running.

 

[carlyai]

  These pictures are of the Intelligent Pump controller wiring instructions.

Sorry I can't get it any clearer. Seems to me the capacitor is across Line and Neutral. The capacitor is between neutral and common, then a link  from common to Line.

[Crossy]

I think you are mis-reading the diagram, not helped by the labelling.

 

I cap MUST end up in series with one of the windings or things definitely won't run.

 

Now go away and take the photos I asked for (original pump diagram) ????

 

Have you made it run with the old controller yet?? 

[carlyai]

2 hours ago, Crossy said:

I think you are mis-reading the diagram, not helped by the labelling.

 

I cap MUST end up in series with one of the windings or things definitely won't run.

 

Now go away and take the photos I asked for (original pump diagram) ????

 

Have you made it run with the old controller yet?? 

I couldn't take the photo of the origional FROG pump control box circuit as it's hissing down rain and the pump control box is now right on top of the bore The only circuit I have is on the side of the pump control box. The FROG book that came with the pump does not have a wiring diagram

The pump does not work with the origional FROG control box reinstalled.

This was the sequence of events.

1. The FROG pump was installed in the 60m bore hole.

2. The FROG controller box connected and pump operated.

3. Changed controller to Intelligent Pump controller and pump didn't work.

4. Reinstalled origional FROG controller and pump didn't work.

5. Thought it was possible I could have broken the pump control cable (pushing and pulling) so I cut out the cable length from the top of the bore to the Intelligent Pump  about 6m. Reinstalled the FROG control to the cable at the top of the bore casing, pump still not working.

[carlyai]

Pump wiring from Web site.

[carlyai]

Picture of the origional FROG pump controller wiring.

 

 

[bankruatsteve]

Pretty sure blue is N and black is L in the control box (NOT as labeled above).  My recall is that the pump wires are black for L, grey for neutral, brown for capacitor and yellow-green for earth.  

[carlyai]

2 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Pretty sure blue is N and black is L in the control box (NOT as labeled above).  My recall is that the pump wires are black for L, grey for neutral, brown for capacitor and yellow-green for earth.  

Thanks. The guys that drilled the bore connected up the pump box. I didn't really look at the wiring when I removed it to reconnect my new Intelligent pump control box. (Something my wifey reminds me of). 

So the motor winding should be between 4 and 5 if it's in series with the capacitor?

I think the wiring diagram shows L is black and N blue.

 

 

[carlyai]

11 minutes ago, carlyai said:

Thanks. The guys that drilled the bore connected up the pump box. I didn't really look at the wiring when I removed it to reconnect my new Intelligent pump control box. (Something my wifey reminds me of). 

So the motor winding should be between 4 and 5 if it's in series with the capacitor?

I think the wiring diagram shows L is black and N blue.

 

 

Wrong. Think this is how it's connected. Motor between 4 and 6. Checking.

[bankruatsteve]

Did you change the wiring in the control box?  All you should need to do is connect the incoming L,N,E to the connectors for that and connect the pump wires to the connector block for that.  The brown wire is for the capacitor.

[Crossy]

You motor windings will be 4 to 5 and 4 to 6 (4 being the common).

[Crossy]

A thought.

 

The diagram shows the supply on 5, try moving the supply to 6 (this would cause the motor to run in the opposite direction).

 

Time to buzz out your pump wiring ???? 

 

[carlyai]

5 minutes ago, Crossy said:

A thought.

 

The diagram shows the supply on 5, try moving the supply to 6 (this would cause the motor to run in the opposite direction).

 

Time to buzz out your pump wiring ???? 

 

Doesn't it show the supply on 4?  

Thanks for your patience.

 

I've come up with another drawing. 

Is this correct?

[Crossy]

"Supply" is between 4 and 5 on the diagram (L-N polarity is unimportant) 4 being the winding common (It's L on the drawings).

 

Latest drawing looks correct.

 

I know hindsight is 20-20, but I always take a photo of any wiring before I start messing with it.

 

[carlyai]

8 minutes ago, Crossy said:

"Supply" is between 4 and 5 on the diagram (L-N polarity is unimportant) 4 being the winding common (It's L on the drawings).

 

Latest drawing looks correct.

 

I know hindsight is 20-20, but I always take a photo of any wiring before I start messing with it.

 

Yes, my wife keeps reminding me. ????

[Crossy]

Have you "buzzed out" the pump wiring?

 

[carlyai]

1 minute ago, carlyai said:

Yes, my wife keeps reminding me. ????

I watched the guy wiring the control box and he was using a screwdriver way to big for the terminal screws and breaking the insulation round the screws, then when one wire combination didn't work he changed to another until the pump worked. So more fool me for not paying attention to the final setup and taking a pic.

 

[bankruatsteve]

I took a photo of my FROG control where the pump wires come in.  Looks like L is brown, N blue, and can't see capacitor wire but it would be whatever is left (maybe red).   Hook it up like that and your pump will work.  Don't worry about the capacitor.  FROG will have it hooked up the way they want it.

 

[carlyai]

4 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

I took a photo of my FROG control where the pump wires come in.  Looks like L is brown, N blue, and can't see capacitor wire but it would be whatever is left (maybe red).   Hook it up like that and your pump will work.  Don't worry about the capacitor.  FROG will have it hooked up the way they want it.

 

Thanks. When it stops raining I'll go out and have another look. ????