Epilepsy And Hypothyroidism In Dogs

[Nienke]

Be really careful. We have a friend with two (male and female) that he purchased in BKK. Both have huge health problems - one has virtually constant epileptic fits that require hugely expensive medication. I think from what he has told us, they are swimming in such a small gene pool in Thailand that problems like these are inevitable.

Hi,

When I read Leisurely's post my first thoughts were 'how about the thyroid', 'what does the dog eat' and 'can there be a connection between the vaccinations and the seizures in this dog'?

As I didn't want to hijack the other thread, I made a new one.

From: Dr Jean Dodds, world's most knowledgeable person on seizures in dogs.

http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...e_treatment.htm or go to the Table of Contents http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/site_map.htm

Causes:

The cause can be anything that disrupts normal brain circuitry:

~ Idiopathic Epilepsy, meaning "no known cause" and possibly inherited. This is also referred to as Primary Epilepsy. Check history or pedigree and make sure your veterinarian has looked for possible underlying factors. Seizures caused by underlying factors are referred to as Secondary Epilepsy.

~ Congenital hypoglycemia (low blood sugar)

~ Hypothyroidism (low thyroid function)

~ Infections causing brain damage (such as canine distemper, cryptococcosis)

~ Ingestion of toxins (such as lead paint chips, insecticides)

~ Brain tumors

~ Portosystemic shunts (improperly routed intestinal blood vessels bypass the liver - one of the body's important waste-product detoxifiers)

~ Vaccinations

Diet:

Diet plays an important role in the management of Canine Epilepsy. It is very important to feed a kibble that is preservative-free. Preservatives such as ethoxyquin, BHT, and BHA should be avoided as they can cause seizures. Many "supermarket" foods are loaded with chemical dyes and preservatives. Buy a high quality kibble made from "human grade" ingredients or better yet, cook for your dog.

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Personal note: The dog of a veterinary friend of mine had for years severe and frequent epileptic seizures. After switching to solely a raw food diet, after 8 years of illness, this dog was completely seizure free and of all the medications. This same person has studied the aspects of vaccination as cause for epileptic seizure attacks in dogs. She has found a correlation between the distemper vaccines and an increase in these attacks.

Hypothyroidism is the most common disorder in dogs.

Thyroid “dysfunction” can be

1) inherited and mainly affecting mainly young dogs = autoimmune thyroiditis, and

2) caused by the distemper vaccine!!!! and affects mainly mature dogs.

3) caused by spaying or neutering

A boxer (YES!!!! ) that was with me in boarding was on epilepsy medication. As she also had typical skin problems I suspected hypothyroidism. This was confirmed by the vet. Once on thyroid pills she never had a seizure again.

Another dog (Thai mix) that was with me in boarding (spayed, hugely fat, skin and behavioral problem) also had a thyroid problem. Once on medication her coat grew back beautifully and her behavior changed. But, although, she lost some weight , but remained a fatte mama.

(I do have to add that in both cases only the T4 was tested, which is in fact insufficient in properly diagnosing hypothyroidism. But as both dogs reacted so much on the thryoid medication, I do think they had that problem)

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From: http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels...roidDisease.htm

CLINICAL SIGNS OF CANINE HYPOTHYROIDISM

Alterations in Cellular Metabolism weakness / stiffness / laryngeal paralysis / facial paralysis / tragic expression / knuckling or dragging feet / muscle wasting / megaesophagus / head tilt / drooping eyelids

Neuromuscular Problems seizures / mental dullness / exercise intolerance / neurologic signs polyneuropathy / lethargy / weight gain / cold intolerance / mood swings hyperexcitability / stunted growth / chronic infections

Dermatologic Diseases dry, scaly skin and dandruff / coarse, dull coat / bilateral symmetrical hair loss / rat tail, puppy coat / hyperpigmentation / seborrhea or greasy skin pyoderma or skin infections / myxedema / chronic offensive skin odor

Reproductive Disorders infertility of either sex / lack of libido / testicular atrophy / hypospermia aspermia / prolonged interestrus interval / absence of heat cycles / silent heats / pseudopregnancy / weak, dying or stillborn pups

Cardiac Abnormalities slow heart rate (bradycardia) / cardiac arrhythmias / cardiomyopathys

Gastrointestinal Disorders constipation / diarrhea / vomiting

Hematological Disorders bleeding / bone marrow failure / low red blood cells / low white blood cells / low platelets

Ocular Diseases corneal lipid deposits / corneal ulceration / uveitis Keratococonjunctivitis / sicca or dry eye / infections of eyelid glands (Meibomian gland)

Other Associated Disorders lgA deficiency / loss of smell (dysosmia) / loss of taste / glycosuria / chronic active hepatitis / other endocrinopathies adrenal, pancreatic, parathyroid

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Another very usefull link is: http://www.online-thyroid-guide.info/thyro...oid-problem.php

I hope this info and the links can be of help for this particular dog and any other dog (or cats as it does occur in cats as well), especially those with recurrent skin problems (where hypothyroidism is often over-looked).

Nienke

Edited June 21, 2007 by Nienke

[bina]

nienke:

boxers are genetically predisposed to hypo/erthyroidism and epilepsy among other genetic problems... my bitch ahs problems with thyroid but it seems to be seasonal: sypmptoms: classic saddle like loss of hair and weight loss... in a cycle. neither this nor my other boxer's seizures changed with changes in foods, he was never neutered she was spayed. neither dogs ever got the shots just rabies --as it used to be that most of us here didnt give anyhting but rabies 'cause others are expensive and rabies is subsidized and required and no one really boards their dog either. none of my park dogs have been vacinated either except for rabies which is rampant here. funnily enough we got our ferrets the full range of (dog) shots. not sure if vaccines etc are really the reason or just genetic predisposition and bad breeding (israelis love back yard breeding without considering genetic problems etc)

pills for epilepsy for the most part dogs are given prednisones

and male boxer (RIP) had seizures due to pressure on some nerve in his back and or possible tumors... they were petite mal types fortunately (spacing out, slight twitching with some post episodal confusion of place-- not knowing where he was and disoriented and tired.

[Nienke]

As from what understand from the above mentioned link and other links is that of all the dogs tested upto 90% were full-bred.

Rabies or the rabies vaccine can certainly cause seizure, epileptiform attacks, chorea, twitches etc.

Furthermore, vaccine can change the DNA, making that the off-spring of the vaccinated dog or cat can show vaccine damage while never been vaccinated themselves.

Interesting, though, you mentioning that your and other dogs never have been vaccinated against the other infectious diseases. How about distemper and parvo at your place? Did your dogs ever show any symptoms? And if yes, what did you do/how did you treat them? What's the success rate?

And since spaying your bitch, did the skin problems and weight loss disappear? If so, how is that related then to the thryoid?

Just curiosity, not wanting to be pedant.

Nienke

[elfe]

hi nienke, thanks for this very interesting post and links!

i have one girl here, lola, who has epileptic fits. she is on phenobarbital since the first incident. i don't know if it works as she still has fits, sometimes not for months then again 3 in a couple of days.

the first fit occured a few days after combined vaccine, these was the 3rd and last vaccine she ever got when she was one year old. she had 2 vaccines at age 2 and 3 months old. she was a very very sick puppy, actually don't know which disease(s) as she also had lots of ticks when i took her from the shelter as tiny pup. she had symtoms as eye infection with lots of goo for several months which would get better with eye drops but then come back. when she was a pup she had bad scaly skin. nose discharge and cough and i treated with doxycycline and cough meds, vitamins. at age 3 months she suddenly had problems walking and controlling her feet, i promptly gave her dexamethasone and it worked immediately and never occured again. might have had distemper as her lower jaw and teeth are not fully developped. the skin at her paws is sometimes overgrowing and can be torn off after some time. she is also a very nervous and excited dog, always has to stay with me, if not gets really anxious.

now she is almost 2 yrs old and has perfect coat and skin and eats very well. her diet consists of meat, fish and fat, i leave out all carbohydrates, sugar and dry food and she gets vitamin b on a daily basis and sometimes magnesium. when a fit is nearing i can tell now already from her behaviour many hours before. she is more restless, overplayful with the others and excited, mostly then at night (she sleeps with me) a fit occurs. it only takes about 20-30 seconds which seem forever to me, i hope it will not be longer in the future but i have an emergency injection in the fridge if a fit won't stop anymore...

also when she has a bad period and fits are nearing her eyes lose the transparent skin (sorry don't know how to describe properly) and her eyes always seem to be a bit bigger than the other dogs (might be a sign of thyroid problem?).

she is the most wonderful dog and extremely sensitive and intelligent, really my most loved baby, here she is

[Nienke]

Hi Elfe,

Sorry about your dog. Sure she's one of your favorites, as she needs so much care

If I understand you well, your dog was quite a sick puppy, but still got the vaccinations? And at age 1 year she got the last combined vaccines after which the fits started?

It sounds to me she suffers vaccine damage.

More info on this you can find www.truthaboutvaccines.net and

www.whale.to/m/pitcairn.html (scroll down for symptoms and see if you recognise some on the distemper or the rabies).

But it can also be chronic tick disease. Did you ever do the SNAP test (looking for parasites under the microscope often gives negative, but doesn't say much if this really the is case) to know if she has antibodies against tick parasites? Because chronic tick disease can also give recurrent conjuctivitis, skin problems, arthritis, paralizes and seizures.

The underdeveloped jaw and teeth can also be a result of anitibiotics.

So far I know now, they only way to do something about vaccine damage is by homeopathic treatment.

PM me if you like to have more info on this,

Nienke

[elfe]

Hi Elfe,

Sorry about your dog. Sure she's one of your favorites, as she needs so much care

If I understand you well, your dog was quite a sick puppy, but still got the vaccinations? yes, then i did not know a lot about vaccines and diseases... still not know a lot but still learning And at age 1 year she got the last combined vaccines after which the fits started? yes, but i forgot to mention that also at this time she got in heat and at her next heat (so far the last one) she got fits again as well... still hesitating of neuting her as i'm afraid of the sedative?

It sounds to me she suffers vaccine damage.

More info on this you can find www.truthaboutvaccines.net and

www.whale.to/m/pitcairn.html (scroll down for symptoms and see if you recognise some on the distemper or the rabies). thanks, i looked it up a while ago and will go there again later when i have more quiet time here

But it can also be chronic tick disease. Did you ever do the SNAP test (looking for parasites under the microscope often gives negative, but doesn't say much if this really the is case) to know if she has antibodies against tick parasites? Because chronic tick disease can also give recurrent conjuctivitis, skin problems, arthritis, paralizes and seizures. no i never did. but am also guessing it could all be a tick born disease... how about the antibodies, do they make dogs resistant against the blood parasites?

The underdeveloped jaw and teeth can also be a result of anitibiotics. yes...

So far I know now, they only way to do something about vaccine damage is by homeopathic treatment.

PM me if you like to have more info on this, thanks so far nienke for your great info!

Nienke

[Nienke]

But it can also be chronic tick disease. Did you ever do the SNAP test (looking for parasites under the microscope often gives negative, but doesn't say much if this really the is case) to know if she has antibodies against tick parasites? Because chronic tick disease can also give recurrent conjuctivitis, skin problems, arthritis, paralizes and seizures. no i never did. but am also guessing it could all be a tick born disease... how about the antibodies, do they make dogs resistant against the blood parasites?

So far I know they don't make a dog resistant, but a good immune system can kep the parasites in check. And a good immune system depends a LOT on the food you give and the amount of poisons that goes on or in the animal.

Nienke

[bina]

have rarely seen parvo here or distemper probably cause if the dog gets it, it dies and thats the end of it as people dont tend to run to the vet for anything unless they spent money to buy the dog in the first place. most dogs people have here where i live are either pups that have been thrown away and found here (kibbutzim and moshavim (agric. towns) are a dumping ground every spring for all unwanted dogs and pups); or backyard breeder type golden retriever/yellow labs as popular breeds. most preferred city dogs are small pinscher mix types. israelis dont tend to spend much on vet bills preferring to DIY or ignore... unless its broken bones and things....those that do spend money its because the dog is a purebred (and usually a result of a fad-- this year for the first time its pekinese and french bulldog types) and its seen as a waste of money to spend money or buy dogs if u can get one free. also spaying neutering is a religioius problem here (many religious wont 'fix' their dogs).

up until recently, dog food was not popular either due to it seen as a waste of money to buy a dog food dogs got table scraps or chickens from the coop. now the middle and upper class seem to be going in the iam and eukanuba direction as well as with dog beds/clothes/accessories/vet meds.

a large majority of dogs are still outdoor only dogs; yard dogs; running around loose outside on the farms dogs... even in the cities.

my boxer: her thyroid stuff started after spaying; none of our farm or house dogs has ever had distemper or parvo (no signs anyone)...

we now have four farm/yard dogs : one lives with the spotted deer, one with the donkeys, two are along fence perimeters. the two perimeter dogs are exposed to foxes apparently as we have seen fox packs inside our 'fenced' zoo (they dig or climb)... all animals are therefore rabies vaccinated every year including goats, donkeys, horse, deer. those dogs that we found as pups were raised together with the other animals. my lhasa apso house dog was raised originally with goats, nursing from their teats.

canaan dogs are pariah dogs (three of the yard dogs are caanaan mixes) and i believe their genetic make up to be very healthy, definately survival of the fittest. i have not seen the amount of mange here that i see in thailand on thai pariah (village) dogs; we do see that on donkeys.

a large majority of people here prefer mix breeds thinking that mixes are healthier and dont need as much vet care (with the amount of backyard breeding here, they are correct).

the tick fever is becoming very common and ahs spread from the middle of the country to our area as well in the past year or so. many dogs i know that have got the disease it was discovered only after the dog was vetted for something else, and in an advanced form. as is the other disease found near the yarkon river (cant remember the name). all our own dogs are collared or given the drops on the back against ticks and our kibbutz everyone seems to do that regardless of any other treatments that they dont give. (fear of ticks.).

bina

[Nienke]

Thanks Bina, very interesting to read.

You say that you hardly ever see parvo or distemper, because the dog that gets it will die. But if one dog gets it doesn't it spread, as these are such highly contagious diseases. Is it possible that there is just not much of these diseases around? And if that's the case, how come?

Where do the pariah dogs get their food from, as you say there are less cases of mange compared with the Thai village dogs or strays? How about VD's under these dogs? What's the average life-span of these dogs? Are there many strays?

Well, many questions again. Just very interesting

Nienke

[bina]

life span very good if not shot or poisoned; we have several packs running for years and are known and under surveillance with the nature preserve people as these packs are dangerous to humans; they are not afraid of people as wild animals are, and act as a cohesive pack going for humans on bikes and goat herds and shepherds; in the negev, the pariah dogs are loosely fed by the beduin communities that use them for goat protection... check for my posts previous years about similarities in pariah dogs and thai village dogs...

food is from scrounging (dont forget that this isnt america and poeple still dump stuff on sides of roads and in fields etc); they also hunt small game, and go for killing sheep/goats/chickens but not as much since most flocks have their own canaan or other sheep guard breeds guarding....canaan pariah dogs are known for eating kids/lambs newborn as the placentas with the blood triggers the hunt instinct... the mange is just my own visual empirical evidence... i dont see the hairlessness that i saw on thai village dogs... it could be that for the most part the 'owned' dogs are always treated if mange is seen as poeple are afraid they will get it...

cant explain the parvo/distemper deal will have to ask my vets what they think are the reasons... dont forget, the pariah dogs are on true outskirts of villages, if they come inside they are caught and culled by the local authorities. if they come in to agric. areas causing damage they can be shot on sight due to fear of rabies.

births are in fields etc and if pups die, it wont be seen so hard to say anything about survival rates of litters. i notice that the local bitches living in the abandoned quarry always seem to have two to three pups running with her, never more and the litters usually start with six or seven. as for home dogs, i think its just lack of reporting... something along the lines of 'we had a puppy we just got (for free usually), it stopped eating and died. the vet wanted to do this that and the other but it was too expensive so we took it home.' i know my goat vet complains constantly that people call him to deal with sick animals only after the animal is 'down' i.e. lieing on its side not responsive to meds, etc., so usually the animal dies and the person says: see, a waste of time to call the vet, the animal died anyway and i paid blablabla... (my thai husband's theory also btw).

among the arab populations that keep dogs it seems to be divided in two: those that keep expensive pure bred guard dog/or lap dog types that get expensive vet care, and those that have a few pups as sort of pets but dont really take care of them one way or another... thai village dog style... again, living off of scraps, etc. no vetting (yes lots of muslem arabs keep dogs in the house as pets, but they are less 'western' when it comes to spaying, training (brutal force rather then operative conditioning), feeding , very common to see a huge dog chained on a short chain with no shade . it is more common to see children in these communties torturing animals like donkeys cats and dogs, rather than playing with them or caring for them... one of the problems i have at my petting zoo and something we are working on in education programs.in general i think we are behind in pet care generally speaking do to cultural beliefs, less wealth, less education and animals seen as less important. now of course due to last years little war, thousands of dogs were abandoned and are roaming the northern areas; btw, some pariah dogs cross over from lebanon and syria every year. a bitch and her pups crossed over last week as she was injured, the vets shot her with a blow pipe, removed some wire around her neck and released her as she had hidden her pups somewhere and couldnt be located. she is living on the no mans land area where there are lots of mines.

i imagine the status here of pariah and feral dogs here is similar to that of countries in southeast asia on the borders, and vet care for pets here is somewhere between america/europe and and true third world areas, depending on the local and the ethnic group owning the dog as can be seen by the reaction of old time farmers when i spend more money on a goat kid then the kid will ever be worth. the refrain i hear from my vet is always: the cost will be xxx, u have to weigh it against the worth of your animal...

totally off the subject of diseases but i suppose interesting of itself : the culture of pets in different societies... someone want to write a dissertation????

my daughter photoed several mangy dogs in thailand and the reaction here to the photos was horror, but then the reactions were from environmentally active, pet rights poeple, other peoples' reactions were: they should be shot or poisoned. so there u have it.

bina

[Nienke]

Thanks Bina, for your huge reply. I really enjoyed reading it. But before asking more questions, I will read your other posts first.

Nienke